MEA310
Topic Author
Posts: 633
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BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:52 pm

Although many car brands today compete with BMW & MB,in Lebanon, people's choice has always been either BMW or MB.While driving around the city,all you see is either BMWs or MBs regardless wether it's new models or not.
It's like the Airbus Vs Boeing topics in the aviation forums when it comes to mentioning these two brands in Lebanon.I can speak of my own experience concerning this topic.
I'm a big fan of BMW cars whereas my friend is a MB fan,the equation is simple,he owns a MB,I own a BMW,but that's not it.Whenever any of both launch a new model we start bashing and mocquing each other!
For instance,though neither the new M5 or the CLS55 AMG are yet on the market,each try to prove the other is better,but we all know who kicks ass in here  Big grin!
Our case is one of many here,BMWs and MBs remain the Lebanese people's top two choices when it comes to buying a car.

Does such a "battle" exist in your country,between the above mentioned brands or any others?

MEA310
M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:07 am

So far as mass-production goes... the high-end war is quadpartite here in the USA:

Mercedes vs BMW vs Jaguar vs Lexus

Wish I'd thought of it first: take a run-of-the-mill economy car, breathe the engine, give it a fancy candy-shell; and run it up against the traditional luxury leaders.... and win  Yeah sure


Audis, Saabs, Acuras, do not yet have the widely acknowledged clout to compete among those four... but they are closing the gap with considerable speed.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Andreas
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:12 am

Well yes, sort of, since Germany is the country that builds those cars Big grin

It was some sort of religious belief to buy the one brand OR the other, but I guess it isn't that merciless anymore. People tend to change their car brand if the other one fits better.

As an example: I don't own a car anymore, I rent one when I need one, and I usually chose BMW, MB, sometimes Audi, I like them all, good cars, good performance, they all have their strong points, weaknesses are few and don't really count.

Funny enough, I heard the same story about those 2 brands in Dubai! The Emir drives MB limousines, the younger princes go for the X5. That reminded me of the old days in Germany: BMW tried to create an image of the BMW driver to be young and dynamic, MB drivers had a certain reputation to be hat-wearing old man with tons of cash  Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
tristarenvy
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:21 am

Wouldn't it be funny if the Mercedes vs. BMW war was as intense as the Chevy vs. Ford war? There's a great comedy routine for some TV show....
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
AA777
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:30 am

BMW IS THE BEST. I am so Lebanese when it comes to this. I HATE BENZ's. You might think its immature... but deal. Some people hate the red sox, others hate the yankees. Why? Cuz they love the opposing team. Well, I LIVE and LOVE for BMW.

BMW has better performance, hands down. I am a driver. I love to drive. I thus love BMW. Mercedes are for people who dont really care about driving.... only how they look in their three-pointed-star auto. Although controversial, I also love BMW's design much more than mercs'....which i find homogenous and too conservative.

-AA777
 
Imonti
Posts: 399
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:44 am

BMW has better performance on what grounds do u base that statement?

the C class looks infinitely better than the 3 series, it performs better as well.

I do prefer mercs to bmw's. Dont get me wrong, BMW make a mean car, but on the open road, it is much nicer to drive a merc than BMW. just dont say well the 5 series is better than the c class cause it is, compare like with like.
 
AA777
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:52 am

the C class looks infinitely better than the 3 series, it performs better as well

HAHAHA.... right. What drugs are you on my friend? Compare the 330i with the C320, you will have one clear winner. Read all the articles that compare sport sedans. Car and Driver, Automobile, Road and Track....all those magazines tested them against each other, and found the BMW as the winner each time. As a matter of fact, when tested in a group of 8 or so competitors, the Mercedes usually got about 5th place, whereas the Bimmer got 1st.
 
LHSebi
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:05 am

AA777,
Your opinion is obviously that you prefer BMW to Mercedes, for whatever reason, and I respect that. However, saying that BMW outperforms Mercedes without any specifics is plain bull. Yes, a 330i will probably outperform a C320, mainly cause the 330 has one extra liter in its engine! Why not compare the 318 with the SL55? Will BMW still outperform the Merc? Do you really think that someone who doesn't care about driving buys an SL55?

Overall they are also 2 different types of cars. Mercedes doesn't go for the more sporty cars (generally), but rather the comfortable ones for the long drives. Just one proof of that is that you won't find (almost) any Mercedes that offers a manual transmission! BMW and Mercedes cover 2 different market segments, with a slight bit of overlap (ex: M's and AMG's).

BTW: The world's fastest 4 door saloon is a Mercedes derivative...

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
Andreas
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:07 am

Quite obviously, it's not only in Dubai and Lebanon...it's also right here, on the a.net non-av Forum Big grin Big grin Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
FLVILLA
Posts: 316
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:21 am

I have to agree with AA777, BMW and to me Audi are much better cars, they build cars for the people who actually want to drive and get some where still in style, but also relying on innovative and high quality design, service and drive. Mercedes has desperatly been trying to get rid of it's old age image recently, too many old folks driving them and Jag s-class drivers around these days.

Long Live BMW and Audi - the only ones who want more than just 'ok', these are the ones who are looking at 'what if ?'

FLVILLA
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
MEA310
Topic Author
Posts: 633
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:31 am

Overall they are also 2 different types of cars. Mercedes doesn't go for the more sporty cars (generally), but rather the comfortable ones for the long drives. Just one proof of that is that you won't find (almost) any Mercedes that offers a manual transmission! BMW and Mercedes cover 2 different market segments, with a slight bit of overlap (ex: M's and AMG's).

I somehow agree with you LHSebi.
I've always considered MB to be an elegant and classy brand,it is not meant to be a sporty car,it's all about comfy drives.Having said that,it doesn't mean BMW does not preserve the comfy aspect of the car while offering the sporty side of their cars.
BMW adopts the design of sporty looking cars on their sedans,especially the 3 and 5 series whereas MB stick with elegant looking cars,and switch to completely sporty cars with their AMGs.

BTW: The world's fastest 4 door saloon is a Mercedes derivative

Can you explain that to me? As far as I know,the M5 is the fastest sedan.

MEA310
M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
 
racko
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:35 am

In Germany, it's Audi vs. BMW vs. Mercedes.

Jag & especially Lexus don't play a role here, even though Lexus is heavily advertising they sell very, very few cars.

People usually have a general preference for one brand, but it's far less "religion-like" than it was, say, 15 years ago.

I personally prefer BMW, because I prefer sportyness over comfort and I like BMWs new designs, but I acknowledge that there's no car brand in the world that designs better interiors than Mercedes and that the new Audis both look and drive very well. A colleague of mine just got a brand-new Audi A6 4.2 and I had the chance to drive it for a few minutes. I was really impressed, it drives well and you have sooo much space in it. And it's probably the best-looking luxury sedan on the market.
 
LHSebi
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:36 am

MEA310,
Sorry, but the fastest sedan is the Brabus E V12. As the name suggests, it's a tuned up E-class, with a V12 engine. Quick stats: 640 hp, top speed limited to 340km/h due to tires. A monster!

http://www.brabus-online.de/special/01bbe.htm

BMW adopts the design of sporty looking cars on their sedans,especially the 3 and 5 series whereas MB stick with elegant looking cars,and switch to completely sporty cars with their AMGs.

I see what you are trying to say, but don't you think the SL class looks sporty? It is elegant, but in a sporty way, I think.

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:38 am

The Merc wins with me, hands down. My family´s been driving Mercedes since 1936, so I might be a bit biased  Wink/being sarcastic

A little trivia: How are both the Mercedes and BMW logos aviation related?

Daniel Smile
 
MEA310
Topic Author
Posts: 633
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am

Sebastian

I was comparing the sedan cars produced by both BMW & MB.The SL definitely has a sporty look,it's a coupe!
Although the numbers of the Brabus E V12 suggest that it is the fastest sedan,as a BMW fan I have to argue a little Smile!
The BMW M5 comes out straight of the BMW factory as is with no further tune-ups or any modifications whatsoever to give it the numbers it is capble of achieving.Also remember that the new M5 is equipped with a V10 500HP engine,and is capable of hitting the 330km/h mark.As for the MB,it is tuned by Brabus so it could reach these high numbers,I wonder why AMG does not produce such a beast themselves.A few months later,Hamman or AC Schnitzer might have a boosted M5 version that could beat or equal itself with the Brabus machine.
I'm not saying that the M5 is the fastest sedan,you might conclude that regarding what I have written above,but I just wanted to make a little comparison.

MEA310
M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
 
racko
Posts: 4548
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:05 am

The BMW logo is a propeller, but I don't know what the Mercedes Star stands for.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:06 am

Jag & especially Lexus don't play a role here, even though Lexus is heavily advertising they sell very, very few cars.

Did anyone notice that in all German krimi TV series (Cobra 11, Siska, Wolff's Revier, etc.) the bad guys always drive Jaguars?
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:11 am

I'll take a German car any day, be it Audi, VW, BMW or Mercedes Benz. You can compare the stats between Mercs and BMW's all day, but at the end of the day they all have something in common, RELIABILITY.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Andreas
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:35 am

L410; ROFLMFAO!!!!!! But Jags are perfect, built by Brits, owned by Americans, the quintessence of automotive evil Big grin Big grin Big grin

Jesus, do you really watch this crap  Wow! ?
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:49 am

Jesus, do you really watch this crap

Actually it was a friend of mine's observation about the Jags. I admit without torture, I watched couple of them... but it was for "research" purposes only. Wink/being sarcastic
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:53 am

>>>A little trivia: How are both the Mercedes and BMW logos aviation related?

>>>The BMW logo is a propeller, but I don't know what the Mercedes Star stands for.

Yup, a rotating one, to be exact.

No one going for Mercedes? Ok:

The Mercedes star´s three rays stand for Mercedes motors on the road, in the seas and in the air.

Daniel Smile
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:56 am

I have seen this debate myself. Good friends of ours are big Bimmer fans. For a while they had a mid-eighties 3 series, a 2003 5 series, and a 2002 7 series. Now they sold the 3 to get a Dodge truck for their dog.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But BMWs have never done anything for me. The styling is so boring and bland. I know they are good cars and the performance is great but they just have never done it for me.

Now, my CLK55...that car rocks! I get a kick out of it every time I look at it and especially when I drive it! I wouldn't want to drive an underpowered MB...that would be boring. I would like our next car to be the E55. That would be a great family car, don't you think?

I love the Mercedes styling. BMW just doesn't do it for me. Mechanically, I think they're equals, really.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Andreas
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:01 am

Right...a friend..and then for research purposes only...er...um...sure...that's what they all say  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
flight152
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:14 am

Yes, a 330i will probably outperform a C320, mainly cause the 330 has one extra liter in its engine!

WRONG LHSebi. The 330i has 3.0L engine while the C320 has a 3.2L engine. Quite a equal comparison, the 330i kicks the C320's ass as far as performance and sales.
 
airxliban
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:06 am

For me here is the breakdown:

C-Class vs 3-series I prefer 3-series
M3 vs C55 AMG I prefer M3
5-series vs E-Class I prefer 5-series
530d vs E320CDI I prefer 530d
E55 AMG vs M5 I prefer M5 and I am sure that there is no one that disagrees with me.

S-Class vs 7-series I prefer 7-series

Z4 vs SLK Z4 wins it hands down.

6-series vs CL I would rather go with the CL
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:16 am

I disagree with you AirxLiban...I prefer the E55.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
But that was when I ruled the world
 
MEA310
Topic Author
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:35 am

I also disagree with AirxLiban, I prefer the 6 series!

MEA310
M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
 
Sabena332
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:45 am

I am a big BMW fan (my father is driving BMW as long as I can remember and his new 520 has a really great handling) but I like Mercedes as well, the new SLK is simply great  Love.

In "my price-class" is VW my favorite, I had a Polo and currently I have a Golf, both cars never dissapointed me and it is likely that my next car will also be some VW model.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
AA777
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:00 am

LHSebi,

Yes, a 330i will probably outperform aC320, mainly cause the 330 has one extra liter in its engine!

Actually, the 330i has less displacement than a C320. the 330i has a 3.0L engine, while the C320 has 3.2 Liters. 215 HP.

The 330 has 3.0 liters and 225 HP.

So... technically they should be on even footing.
The BMW does outperform the Benz in essentially eveyr single category, performance-wise.

-AA777
 
mia
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:01 am

I love anything German so I find it hard to choose between BMW and MB; the only problem I have with Benz is their legacy. I support BMW and I hope to someday own a 318ti.

Both cars are awesome examples of excellent German design, engineering, labor and craftwork.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
N864DA
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:17 pm

RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:36 am

In my opinion, Audi is often the underestimated contender in this game. They build cars not only "approaching" BMW/Merc standards but they build cars that are as good. The new S4 regularly beats the M3 in Car and Driver/Road and Track comparisions. All three makes surpass the Lexuses/Acuras/Jaguars you see in the U.S. The Audis exude class, style, quality and performance. There is no reason why they shouldn't be included.

This is the way I see it:
3-Series vs. C Class vs. A4: 3-series by quite a margin
M3 vs. C55 vs. S4: Tossup between M3 and S4
5-Series vs. E Class vs. A6: New A6
M5 vs. E55 vs. RS6: All of them are great
7-Series vs. S Class A8: 7-Series
6-Series vs. CL Class: CL
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:45 am

The BMW 6-series technically fits in between the CL and CLK size and price wise, considering the 645ci starts at $79K and the CL500 starts at $94K, buyers might not be cross shopping between the CL and 645ci.

Not to mention I don't know why anyone would pick the CL500 over the 645ci, for less money you get more power, more technology (active steering, active xenons etc..) and an actual drivers car with a MANUAL transmission.

[Edited 2004-11-02 22:56:24]
 
Superfly
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:49 am

You guys left out Lincoln & Cadillac.  Confused
Bring back the Concorde
 
FLVILLA
Posts: 316
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:04 am

"You guys left out Lincoln & Cadillac.  Confused"


We all hope and pray that your not serious, right?
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
Superfly
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:09 am

FLVILLA:
I know. Lincoln is better than Cadillac.

No offense Sccutler but I am a rear-drive fan.
Bring back the Concorde
 
petertenthije
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:24 am

You guys left out Lincoln & Cadillac

They do not sell in Europe. I have only seen very very few cadillacs (pimp cars), but never seen a Lincoln.

Mercedes is a car for ambulance and taxi drivers. I prefer BMWs.
Attamottamotta!
 
Superfly
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:42 am

Of the two over-priced, over-rated German cars, I'd prefer Daimler/Chrysler.
Mercedes also imported there diesels over here which is a good thing.

600 Pullman Limosine


450 SL / 560 SL series
Bring back the Concorde
 
LHSebi
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:48 am

Superfly,
May I ask why you find BMW and Mercedes overrated? What car tickles your fantasies?

Also, may I suggest to use the spellcheck once in a while?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:53 am

LHSebi:
It's the attitude of the fools that buy these cars. I work on cars as a hobby and I've fixed many friends cars too. The German car are no better than American luxury sedans. My 1977 Lincoln rides great and gives very little problems. My friends that own older Mercedes and BMWs are in a world of pain. There cars break down a lot and cost an arm and a leg to fix. Parts are very expensive and those cars are over-engineered.
I really don't see the appeal of these cars other than for bragging rights.
I pointed out the German cars I do like above.



BTW, is the spelling better this time?
Bring back the Concorde
 
AWspicious
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:21 am

"I know. Lincoln is better than Cadillac.

No offense Sccutler but I am a rear-drive fan."


Superfly; You forgot to add No pun intended  Laugh out loud

The German cars are all fine, in my opinion. I prefer the style and performance of the BMWs over the MBs. Who ever said BMWs have bland or boring styling ought to be spanked with a fashion stick (heh heh). My top pick, however, is Audi... Preferably an A6 4.2 Quattro. Class, style, elegance, performance & handling... And, not to mention that legendary quattro drive system.

[Edited 2004-11-03 01:40:52]
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:37 am

AWspicious:
Ah you dirty minded person!  Laugh out loud
Bring back the Concorde
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:41 pm

Hee hee! AWspicious...does that mean I get "spanked with a fashion stick"? BMWs are bland!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: BMW & Mercedes-Benz

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:10 pm

Airsicknessbag, the BMW-logo is even more aviation related if you look on RR-engeine-cowls, I am pretty sure a number of those carry the logo, as RR is a division of BMW...

But speaking of cars, a friend drives 2 Audi (he is single, but has 2 cars...sweet...)... together they have exactly 666hp... one S8 and one S6plus Avant...
He offered me his old S8 with just 60,000km down, for a fair price, because he wanted a stick, not the tiptronic... but being a student in university, the S8 is slightly out of reach...damn it...
Putana da Seatbeltz!

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