ConcordeBoy
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Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:24 pm

Tell me ...am I an evil bastard for thinking that tips (for waitresses) are EARNED not GRANTED/GUARANTEED?

Okay, so you're out treating friends to a decent calibre restaurant:
dumb heifer of a waitress spills soup on you, tells jokes that you dont wanna hear, and hovers over you while you're trying to eat (while wishing she'd go away and just wait until you call her)...... would you still tip her anyways?

Yes, I know she only makes $2.30/hr without tips, and lemme tell you how cleft in twain I am over that.  Yeah sure

Still, what say you types?
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dmeeky243
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:30 pm

If its poor service you certainly do not. I had a server that worked for me who believed she was entitled to them. Facts were that she was quite mediocre and finally we had to make the GM get rid of her because her attitude became so pervasive that she'd leave a whole table sitting in the window while she was off bitching about not getting tips.
"I have a favorite dish, which tends to change daily depending on my mood, or whether I have a hangover, or whether it's
 
StarAC17
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:30 pm

You don't have to if the service was shitty but give her some cheap amount that will piss her of instead of zero. like round to the nearest dollar. Although if you get recorded as someone who doesn't tip they might put the tip on your bill when you come into the resturant again.
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N317AS
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:32 pm

If she was as bad as you say, probably not. If you are just making this crap up to sooth your guilt, because in real life your a cheap ass bastard then this won't help. Other than that, tips are not guaranteed, they should be earned. If you have a waitress/waiter that gave good service, tip her/him. I over tip, 20-25% of the bill, but that is mostly because I used to be a waiter.
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goboeing
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:32 pm

You need to tip people. They do not make enough money without tips and you know that. If you have ever worked in a restaurant then you know that the tips at the end of the day do not just go home with the waiter/waitress. They give some of the total to the busboy, maybe the maitre'd, the dishwasher, the person who makes the salads and desserts, etc. Without a reasonable sized tip, none of those people would get the money they deserve either. It is not their fault that the waitress treated you and your friends poorly.

You should tip them and tell the manager on duty that you were not thrilled with the service. That would be a much more effective way to get your point across. Not stiffing the server.

Nick
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:36 pm

Even when I'm stretched thin on my own cash, I generally tip over 20% in most instances if service is great and/or the restaurant appears to be family-owned and run.

If the service is horrendous or I get that 'entitlement' attitude, I leave whatever pennies and nickels I have on me. I've always figured if that doesn't send a message, nothing will.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Falcon84
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:37 pm

You cold, heartless conservative, you!  Wink/being sarcastic

 Laugh out loud
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dmeeky243
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:41 pm

"They give some of the total to the busboy, maybe the maitre'd, the dishwasher, the person who makes the salads and desserts, etc."

News to me, I was the lead cook at a top Seattle restaurant for over a year and I never saw a dime from a server. Even on a table that ran up $3800 in wine alone, we stayed open for an extra hour, I did 2 extra courses off the menu for them as well. Since I'm in the industry, I tip what I believe is fair based on the service given. Good service? 18% no problem. Exceptional service? 25-30% easy. I also take into account if the place is busy (could have a great server being over worked), which night you're in on, all these are variables.

However, if I had a situation as described in the top post, and I'm assuming we're talking a good fine dining restaurant, no TGI Friday's, scuzzy steakhouse or anything, the server in question was acting extremely unprofessional. Attentive, quick and very intelligent without being overly friendly.
"I have a favorite dish, which tends to change daily depending on my mood, or whether I have a hangover, or whether it's
 
ltbewr
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:48 pm

In some places, tipping is not done. Generally, one doesn't tip a bartender in the UK. Very little tipping is done in NZ or Australia. In many European countries a 'service charge' is added to the bottom of a bill or inclusive in the prices. By not tipping about 15% for reasonable service at a full service bar/resturant is insulting. If you get bad service, complain to the management. I often tip 17-20% for average to excellent service, depending on the balance and demonination of money I have in my wallet/pocket. I have done enough work were tips were appreciated and help pay for my day to day expenses when I was in school and college (1960's-1970's), so when I could afford tipping, I do so within reason. Don't be a CFB (Cheap F---ing Bas---d)  Big grin
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:53 pm

Tough one. I would have been very annoyed at her behavior too. Though, I know I would've felt bad if I didn't leave something.. even if it was less than 5 bucks (depending on the bill) to send a message.

Did your friends call you an 'evil bastard', by chance? Just curious.. maybe you're having some regrets about stiffing her?  Big grin


I remember one time when I was at some restaurant in Philly. The waitress (some girl that was totally full of herself) actually wrote on the check: "Recommended gratuity is $$ for your bill." I don't remember the exact amount. I was just dumbfounded by the size of this girls balls for recommending the size of tip she should get.. What she got was a very (small) surprise.. Big grin
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:53 pm

If you are just making this crap up to sooth your guilt

...what is "guilt"?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:06 pm

As a former server myself (just a good job-whore to make it through college lol), I generally tip well when I find that the service warrants good compensation. If the service sucked, nothing says it better than 1 spot or a no-spot in place of the tip. If their service blatantly sucks, then chances are they know it and they just don't care...so why feel like you have to reward it? They aren't gonna come out in the parking lot and find you lol.

Although, when I did work for this one restaraunt, one of my coworkers got just $1 on a $40 check..so she followed the people to their car and gave em back the $1..needless to say, she got fired.
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
goboeing
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:10 pm

They aren't gonna come out in the parking lot and find you lol.

I remember my dad leaving a tip for a waiter in Canada several years ago. We were walking out to the car and our waiter came out to us and said "Was there something wrong with my service?" He proceeded to ask us about the tip and then my dad realized it was much less than he thought he had left but didn't realize it because of the different coins!

Nick
 
airxliban
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:47 pm

in the US i would say that SOME tip should be granted

however the problem is that the majority of waiters and waitresses now expect gratuity without even feeling the need to earn it.

i was once chased out of a high-brow sushi bar in Los Angeles once for only leaving 10% on a $160 tab due to the fact that 1) we ate at the bar and all the food came from the sushi chef 1 foot away from me, 2) the waitress was annoying, 3) she brought two drinks and the bill not like she was continously working for us and 4) it was a good 45 minutes between the drinks and the bill and 5) i happen to know that the sushi preparers don't get any of the tip.

so she chases me out and starts yapping for more tip.

If the service was 'good' in as much as relatively prompt, letting us know why the food is taking forever if indeed it is, not annoying, etc i tend to double the tax for tip which in Los Angeles County is 8.25% so that ends up as 16.5% tip.

If the service is exceptional which does sometimes happen, for instance the waiter doesn't card me or something, is nice, bashes UCLA (I go to USC), or something of that nature then 20% is good.

In geneva for instance I hardly tip at all because they are already well paid and don't expect the tip, so I'll usually add something like 20 francs if it is a large tab and if I am doing the bill.
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yooyoo
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:57 pm

Damn right, you should have given her a tip....

...but not of the monetary nature.


Andreas  Big thumbs up
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JAXpax
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:08 pm

Here's a slight twist on the situation... I had this happen last month. At a restaurant (in Jacksonville, the same one where I believe DeltaGuy used to work), was with two or three friends dining. The food brought for me was something completely different than what I had ordered, then the waiter argued with me stating I had ordered that meal (somehow my ordering of a chicken salad sandwich turned into a fish dish). As we had waited quite some time for our food already (waiter was more interested in the large party of about 20 he also had), I would have just accepted that meal except I am allergic to seafood (specifically scaly fish/vertebrates like the trout). My friends all backed me up. Waiter went back to the kitchen and said my meal would be out in a few minutes. Twenty minutes later, manager comes back and says my meal will be comped and the correct dinner shows up a few minutes later, and I hurry to be the last one finished. The waiter then got pissy when I just rounded the bill for my soda up to the next dollar, leaving a small tip. Sorry, but calling me a liar and then ignoring the table isn't the way to get much of a tip, plus he got a tip from the others at the table.
 
ordflyer
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:12 pm

I have worked in a tip-based job before so I am usually pretty big on compensating people for service. However, if you felt that the service you recieved was completely unacceptable then I understand your desire to leave a small tip and that's fine. I would hope however that you would also ask to speak to a manager to explain the situation so that he/she can have a talk with the server about their work rather than just leave a few bucks and heading out the door.
One thing to keep in mind though is that everybody has different ideas of what decent or unacceptable service is. It is unreasonable to expect 5-star restaurant service from your local chain restaurant who employs high school and college kids for servers. I know you said you were at a decent restaurant, I'm just making a general statement. It amazes me sometimes that I'll be at Chili's or wherever and can overhear the table next to me arguing over how small the tip should be cause "the service was horrible" while I had the same server and found the service fine for that type of establishment. I guess in the end it all comes down to personal preferences.
 
JAXpax
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:17 pm

I guess in the end it all comes down to personal preferences.

I'm normally a generous tipper, from tipping for the shoe shine at the airport to van drivers to servers (minimum I'll leave is $2 or $3, even with a bill of only $7-10) and rarely do I find service that I find outright unacceptable. I don't even care if they smile or not as long as they aren't outright rude and the correct order is brought in a timely manner under the circumstances.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:32 pm

You cold, heartless conservative, you!

Falcon84: We're already halfway through the Bush era...and you still don't know the correct phrase! It's: compassionate conservative!!!! Like me and the other 51%!!! You must be part of the other 48%!  Laugh out loud

Seriously...for me, it depends on the service. If I don't have to wait a long time between drinks and being served, and it's friendly service, I'll leave 18-20%. Like was said earlier, I double the tax amount to arrive at the tip. Here in the Seattle area, the tax is 8.5-9% depending where you are, and doubling it gives a nice tip. Also, many places now print a "tip helper" where it shows the exact amount for 10%, 15%, and 20%.

If you visit a place regularly, the waiters/waitresses/bartenders remember you...give them a shitty tip, and if you go back, they'll remember. I have a Mexican place down the street that I always go to, and always tip 20%, and believe me, they love seeing me each time and take care of me, and give great, quick service each time.

I know that in Europe, tipping isn't expected and unconventional. I was there in July, Germany and UK specifically. There were many times where I received prompt friendly service. While they were somewhat surprised, I did give them a tip, and they clearly appreciated it. I think they understood it coming from an American, and considered it a nice bonus. I was at the former border of East/West Germany one day, (Point Alpha....http://www.pointalpha.com) and didn't have a place to put my bags, so the lady at the front desk/store offered to watch it while I spent the day there. At the end of the day, I gave her 10 Euros for her trouble...she was quite happy but pleasantly surprised at my gesture. Made her day!

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
vaporlock
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:36 pm

ConcordeBoy, I wouldn't feel guilty! If the service was poor....why give a tip! Under the circumstances........I wouldn't have given a tip either!

Yes, I know that waitresses don't get paid much and they do depend on their tips, however, they know that if they don't give the best possible service they won't be getting a tip!

Phyllis  Wink/being sarcastic
 
AA777
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:11 pm

I always tip, but on a scale. 10 Percent for bad service. 15 for normal service, and 20 for excellent service. Sorry, but you could call me the discerning type. I want people to do their job... not hide around. I try to see and look if they have alot of tables, so I try to take that into account. But by and large, a small tip is due, no matter what. Unless they are RUDE. Then they get goose-egg. But luckily, Ive never had to do that...

-AA777
 
diamond
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:18 pm

Stiffing her and leaving no tip is one way of making the point. And a nice one if you have absolutely no verbal skills whatsoever.
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mia
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:21 pm

Being a college student I dont tip much. MY friends are ashamed by me and usually tip more, but I only tip if I feel well served. I actually say if this doesnt get better the waiter(tress) is going to have to pay MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME to be here. I hate this whole tipping deal. I want them to make a salary and not be forced to tip them. God I hate HAVING to tip, like on the goddam cruiseships.
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Lan_Fanatic
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:45 pm

I'm a college student, so seriously I usually don't carry too much money in my wallet. So I tip almost nothing.
I know this people don't get too much, and tips are important for them......but I don't tip FA's, I don't tip the guy that sells me aspirins at the drugstore, and I don't tip the woman that cleans my classroom,I don't tip the girl that sells me a Big Mac......therefore I hate the fact that you have to tip a steward/ess just because you are in a restaurant/bar.

That people know that they aren't getting a high wage, and they know that most of their earnings are due to tips...so they should work well and get tips or work badly and accept the fact that due to their incompetence they're getting no money at all.
 
bananaboy
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:55 pm

Why pay for poor service? No way. Maybe that is a British thing, but I am not leaving anything for poor service, and will over tip (if there is such a thing) for great service. If the service is poor though, I am not only not going to tip, I am going to be moaning about it too. The service can make or break it.

Put it the other way round? If I was working in a restaurant with the tipping culture the US have, the moment I stop getting tips is the moment I start taking a long hard look at the service I am providing.

Guilt? CBoy? Hmm. Never thought I would hear those 2 words in the same sentence  Wink/being sarcastic



Mark
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ClassicLover
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:47 pm

Australia has minimum wage guarantees for all jobs. As far as I know, the smallest amount you can be paid for an hour of work is somewhere in the region of $10 or $12 per hour. As such, we have no tipping culture whatsoever. It is expected that you will pay your bill, nothing more, nothing less.

However, we Aussies are a generous lot... well, some of us. I will usually always round up to the nearest dollar. If I ordered a home delivery (pizza etc), I will tip the driver a few dollars, by rounding up the order to the nearest $5.

In restaurants, if I was pleased by the food and the service was okay, they might get a $10 tip on a bill of $60.

Having to tip due to the low wages paid by people in restaurants is just so third world to me. It would make more sense for the people to be guaranteed a living wage and have the restaurant charge more to cover it. After that, any tips can be distributed according to discretion of the client.

If the food is good, send your compliments to the chef, and tip the chef. If the service was exceptional, tip the waitperson. Hell, if the cocktails were great, tip the barman. Having to give 10% or whatever, to have it go to the waitperson who may or may not have done a good job, to suppliment their wages... it's just highway robbery.

 Smile

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777236ER
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:48 pm

What pisses me off now is the new style of restaurant credit/debit card receipt, that has 'Sub Total', 'Gratuity' and 'Total' on it. The sub total value is the value you see on the VAT receipt, there's a blank space next to gratuity and total. If you don't pay attention, or don't realise the implications, and sign the receipt, without filling in the total value, there is nothing stopping the restaurant from entering whatever amount they like next to 'Total', and you'll end up being libel for it.

If a restaurant gives me a receipt like this, they automatically don't get a tip.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
andz
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:06 pm

On my first trip to the States in 1991 on the first morning I had breakfast in my hotel restaurant. I got cold food that I had to send back, had to ask for milk for my coffee twice and generally got bad attitude from the pimply waiter. The bill came, I signed it and left, the waiter actually came after me and said that service charge wasn't included. I said so there's no problem, no service no charge. He was not a happy boy.

You're right CB, tips are earned. If you can't do the job properly and earn a good tip, don't whine when you don't get one.

Here the norm is 10%, some places add it automatically on groups of 8 or more. For really good service I usually give 20% or round the bill to thereabouts.

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
JAXpax
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:55 pm

What pisses me off now is the new style of restaurant credit/debit card receipt, that has 'Sub Total', 'Gratuity' and 'Total' on it.

Restaurant receipts have been like that in the US as far back as I can remember.
 
csavel
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:00 pm

I'm a quite generous tipper as I know how servers live on their tips, but if I got bad or rude service no way would I tip, and I would also definitely let the manager know. One bad egg could spoil his business, so he ought to know so he can correct the problem.

One thing is I withhold tips based on the service I get for the server, *not* the quality of the food, he has no control over that and if he is nice and tries to accommodate me - even if ultimately unsuccessful, why should it come out of the server's pocket?

If, however, the server is surly, and registers no concern about my complaints, then since he *does* have control over that he gets a small or no tip.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
airplay
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:02 pm

I've had a similar experience. I handled it a bit differently though. I just walked up to the hostess and asked for a different waiter. She told me that she couldn't ask a different waiter/waitress to work that table so I asked her to move us. Drinks and all.

She did and our new server was MUCH better and got the well deserved tip. If you have a rotten server, chances are things will not get better as the evening wears on.
 
saigonhouston
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:13 am

Whether poor or good service....you still need to leave the tips at least 10% of your total bill. So, yes you are an Evil.

Rule:

If it was a good service then give as much tips as you want to the server.

If it was a poor service then give just 10% of your total bill.

It was poor service because the servers are extremely busy with the crowd. And if it was crowded restaurant so it must be a good restaurant. I bet you will be back again for good food.

There is no reason not to leave tip for the server because you had a poor service. Believe me, if they are not busy then you will have a better service.

I was once a waiter for 8 years so I know. However, I quit right after received my college degree in Business Administration.

Saigonhouston
 
SlamClick
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:04 am

All this debate is pointless.

People who do not tip are simply cheap. The debate is just trying to justify it, trying to put a pretty face on CHEAP. The system is in place - it calls for you to tip. They are taxed on the tips whether you leave them or not.

Dmeeky243 my wife was a server for nearly twenty years in many good dinner houses. She tipped out 30-40% each night to the rest of the staff. Maybe you were out back smoking?

If the service is mediocre, tip 15% or just under. If it is actually bad tell management. You owe that to the rest of us diners. If you get something spilled on you complain immediately. The house will almost certainly comp (that means free) your dessert or drinks.

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Cactus739
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:30 am

Go with your gut on this one.

If they provided great service, were friendly and efficient.... then tip generously. If they were lackadaisical and spilled soup on you.... maybe a small tip is in order, but nothing extravagant.

Question on the soup incident. How did he/she handle it? How did you handle it? A couple of years ago I was at the Olive Garden and our waiter spilled the whole tray of drinks on me. He was overly apologetic to the point where I felt bad for him. When he brought the check he said "since drinks were on you, I guess your dinner will be on me..." We had a good laugh about it...and he got a good tip out of it.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
redngold
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:31 am

Here's how I look at it:

If service is adequate, tip 10-15%.

If service sucks, I give a tip equal to how I feel.

If service is downright sh*tty, especially if I have to ask for a manager, or if I feel I have to leave before my meal is over, then there's zero tip. But usually before something like that happens, the manager has made amends by cutting the bill or offering a free item. If the establishment has tried to make amends, they usually get 10% of the final bill.

** I always try to make sure I have 120% of the anticipated bill so that I can give an adequate tip. **

Most of the time I tip up to 20%, and that's even though I am poor. I only go to places where I either know the wait staff to be friendly or a place that's been recommended by friends.


redngold

Edit: spelling

[Edited 2004-11-11 02:31:59]
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dl021
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RE: Am I An Evil Scrooge For Not Tipping?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:27 am

cboy....as long as you let her know why you are not tipping then its educational and the lesson is worth twenty tips.

It still means your'e a cheap bastard, though.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?

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