ryanb741
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Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:47 am

Well it is half time and Spain are deservedly 1-0 up but why aren't England playing football and instead trying to maim their opponents (although the Spanish are play-acting). Rooney should have been sent off for pushing Casillas into the stand and Ashley Cole is going crazy too. Shame to see the racist Spanish fans make monkey chants at England's black players though.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Thom@s
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:51 am

The real question is: Why the hell isn't this match on the telly over here...?  Sad

C'mon England!

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Scotty
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:51 am

Rooney did push Casillas but I'm amazed at the balletic run and jump he then took into the press area. I doubt if Rooney has a Superman kit on under his England shirt so top marks to Spain for the dancin

Scotland gettin thumped again btw.
 
EGGD
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:54 am

To be honest I thought that was the least of the theatrics from the Spanish team. Casillas was running pretty fast and it looked like Rooney's push caught him off guard and he had to avoid running in to anyone. Can be quite nasty and a deserved yellow card. Didn't really see much else that wrong though, lots and lots of diving and feigning injury from the Spanish as per usual and one of the worst penalty decisions i've ever seen! England playing very very crap.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:37 am

Looks like it will finish 1-0, England have been awful, Spain's fans are racist scum though - I'm sure FIFA will intervene. It's about time less civilised countries are made to behave by the same standards as the developed ones.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
saintsman
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:39 am

I gave up on the game a long time ago it was so bad. Thom@s you were lucky that you didn't see it. Did England go there to play football?

As for the chants, it got worse when Wright-Phillips came on. I just wish he had scored.
 
Scotty
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:44 am

Wright-Phillips and Cole got disgraceful treatment. Erikson should have taken England off the park in protest at the so called Spanish "supporters" disgraceful chants
 
EGGD
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:46 am

Yup, pretty horrific in today's 'modern' world that we are still treated to 18th century behaviour like this. I hope those responsible gets what's coming to them
 
ryanb741
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:49 am

Well, as even the Spanish coach is racist, I'm not holding out much hope of anything being done.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
EGGD
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:50 am

I doubt it as well, but we can still hope right!? Maybe one of them will get beaten up by an English hooligan later tonight.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:04 am

England were dreadful, i've never seen such a depressing display by an England team for a long time. The passing was a disgrace, how hard is it to pass the ball without giving it to the opposition? Good job it was only a friendly, i'd dread to see such a display in a competitive match, let's hope it was a one-off bad day at the office. Rooney lost the plot, Erikkson was right to haul him off before getting a meaningless red card in a friendly.

The other negative from the match was the monkey noises towards Englands black players, it was disgraceful. Those morons in the crowd making the noises should hang their heads in shame. What are the Spanish FA and FIFA gonna do about this? Not much probably since the Spanish coach is allowed to call Thierry Henry a shitty black man and still keep his job. It's shocking to see such a liberal attitude in Spain towards blatant racism. I have a feeling this racist culture is tolerated in other countries such as Italy and Greece where Englands black players have received abuse in the past. Some people still live in the dark ages in these countries.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
ryanb741
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:23 pm

Well one positive is that apparently the IOC are likely to take a dim view of the racism and that Madrid's Olympic bid will suffer as a result
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:27 pm

Pretty much agree with everyone else.

England were super-dreadful. This wasn't just one of those poor performances that all teams put in from time to time, this was hilariously incompetent. I thought it was summed up in the last minute when Paul Robinson got the ball, urged everyone upfield and promptly plopped the ball at the feet of a Spanish midfielder with no England player within 20 yards. I've never seen good players play so badly. Ashley Cole, who has to be one of the best left backs in the world, had an absolute nightmare, easily the worst I've ever seen him play. Poor old Michael Owen didn't have a single opportunity.

As for the Spanish fans, well, what else is there to say. That was one of the most disgusting displays of racism I've ever seen in sport. I know there's been a lot of comment about England walking off the pitch, but I do think this is hindsight. I can't honestly say I was sat there at the time thinking England should have gone, it was only afterwards when it was mentioned.

Still, FIFA and UEFA are quick to threaten England with all sorts of dire consequences whenever they step out of line. They should punish Spain heavily. It's 2004 for Christ's sake.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:40 pm

If the chants had been coming from England fans we would have been barred from competition or forced to play our games behind closed doors. But as its Spain, nothing will come of it - they will laugh it off.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
gkirk
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RE: Spain Vs England

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:42 pm

The chanting was sickening. Not as sickening as Scotland's performance though  Angry  Sad
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Andreas
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:32 am

Kirkie I fully agree...that was really sick!!! (The Scottish performance..and the English one!)  Big grin Big grin
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gkirk
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:34 am

Just glad England lost. Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:39 am

The difference is, Kirkie, that England can play better.

Actually, realistically, the game has been utterly overshadowed by the racial abuse. This has all the hallmarks of becoming a diplomatic incident.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Andreas
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:54 am

Which is of course just another poor attempt of England NOT to acknowledge that they played piss-poor...We lost, cannot be, let's make an incident out of it!  Big grin

btw: I've heard "monkey" noises in English, Italian, Spanish and German arenas...try to make a diplomatic incident out of that!

As for 2006: Be afraid, be very afraid!! Big grin Big grin Big grin

(that goes for England exclusively, the Scots won't make the way to Germany anyway Big grin)
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Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:01 am

No, Andreas, nothing of the kind. England's performance last night was pitiful, and no-one, NO-ONE, is using the racism issue to try to deflect from that. To be honest, suggesting that is what is happening is extremely insulting, and unbecoming of you. Take the piss out of England all you like, but don't do that.

btw: I've heard "monkey" noises in English, Italian, Spanish and German arenas...try to make a diplomatic incident out of that!

Hardly ever in England. Not any more. We did have a problem 20 years ago, but since then it's declined to virtually nil. I haven't heard it for a long, long time. That's not because English fans are somehow inherently more tolerant, God knows the hooligan problem still exists, but because of a concerted effort to eradicate it, one that has been almost entirely successful.

If you hear it at Spanish, German or Italian arenas, then it's time your (and their) FA's get off their backsides and do something about it. It's totally and utterly unacceptable. Saying it happens is absolutely no justification for it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Andreas
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:27 am

Banco, racism is a very serious problem, nobody in his right mind would doubt that, and it is a problem in most countries, England included, Germany included, and it seems to me that it will never end because there will always be a certain percentage of braindeads that will never learn, or is too stupid too learn or has a strange sense of humour...whatever. Unfortunately most of these braindeads seem to be football fans or at least hooligans that work the sports arenas.

We had that discussion in connection to our first dark-skinned national team player Gerald Asamoah and another guy from Freiburg. It was discussed openly, it stopped or whenever it started during a game, the rest of the audience started to scream and yell. Still the problem goes on...as said above, a few braindeads that just can't or won't stop. (Well in the case of King Kahn one tends to be tolerant  Big grin)

What does surprise me is the harsh reaction of English officials...as said above, it's not exactly a once-in-a-lifetime-event - unfortunately! Actually I do not believe that these guys try to excuse the teams performance, but it did occur to me that the reaction might have been somewhat less noisy if England would have kicked the living you-know-what out of the Spanish team.


btw: I just saw some parts of the game so maybe I didn't see the worst!
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Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:42 am

No, I don't think the result would have had any bearing whatsoever, though I must admit I was praying for England to score a beautiful goal with all the black players combining to shove it down their stupid racist throats. It wasn't just one or two mouth-breathing knuckledraggers, it was coming from at the very least hundreds, more likely thousands right around the ground. Every time black England players, especially Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips (presumably because his skin was the darkest) the monkey noises were deafening. It was all you could hear through the TV.

Now, the point is this, we don't hear this in this country. Really, we don't. Twenty years ago, sure, but not any more. The whole reason there has been such outrage is because we don't hear it at English games any more. Now, I will honestly say this - yes, you do hear occasional racist abuse at European grounds, and eradicating it is one thing that the rest of Europe damn well should learn from us, but I haven't heard it this bad in a hell of a long time. It was all you could hear, not just a few cretins. No doubt you'll be able to seek out video of it on German TV at some point, but this was way beyond the normal few idiots.

Now, had the Spanish FA then come out and condemned it unequivocably, that would have been one thing, but the reason this row has gone on and headed up to government levels is because the Spanish media have pretty much ignored it

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=623472§ion=news

and so have their FA. Given this comes after Luis Arragones referred publicly to Thierry Henry as a "black shit" it's hardly surprising that the level of outrage has been so high.

She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
GDB
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:44 am

The last chant to reach the press was aimed at Liverpool fans, "There's only one Boris Johnson"

Most chants are about regional stereotypes within the UK, in the 1980's fans from the richer South of England clubs used to wave wads of banknotes at fans from Northern Clubs, from regions that were suffering from economic problems.

The recent habit of some European fans of racist chanting does remind the UK of a darker time in their football history, from societies we are often told are more at ease with themselves.

I did 'enjoy' the Spanish Coach's rant about 'English' imperialism though, just as well his own forefathers had absolutely no record of foreign conquests, right?
 
Andreas
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:49 am

I fully agree to your comment on the Spanish officials reaction, that was indeed a complete fu#@-up, to say it politely! When it happened to Asamoah a few years ago, all officials literally fell over their own feet running to the journalists to scream blue murder about those Nazis (and I don't think these are Nazis, just braindeads, not that there is much of a difference between both groups!).

But then I think that at least in Germany people do grow up learning NOT to use any words or remarks or "noises" that could be identified as somehow nazi-connected (which is a good thing actually, sometimes political correctness can have good side-effects!)...and most don't! This may be different in Spain!
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:50 am

Nobody in their right mind would deny that there's no racism in English football, ofcourse there is, there's always one or two bad apples here and there. But the difference between England and countries such as Spain, Italy and Greece (Greece, another big offender) is that here it's simply not tolerated, the atmosphere where you could make racial remarks and get away it is long gone (Ron Atkinson). What is disturbing is that the Spaniards seem to have a relaxed attitude towards it, they simply don't see what the big deal is. The Spanish coach is allowed to give Thierry Henry racial agro and get away with it, where is the outrage in Spain towards these remarks?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
gkirk
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:43 am

Throw that thug Rooney in jail may I add
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
alcregular
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:46 am

At least the English fans were on their best behaviour and not in the wrong. This must be a first, is it? Im so glad I didn't watch the game, I normally watch international games.
Why drive when you can fly?
 
spinzels
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:55 am

Racist chants in an England arena? Andreas, have you heard it in the last ten years? I find that impossible to believe. Almost every side in all of the England professional leagues will have at least a couple black players. Racist chants don’t make much sense if they end up taunting your own side. We do need more black faces in the stands and in the club offices, admittedly. But racist chants. That’s bonkers.

The English did play poorly, no doubt. Rooney behaved thuggishly, no doubt. But the criticism of the English side is well beyond exaggeration. They lost 1-0 to one of the world’s best national sides, away under menacing conditions. A win is a win, but the Spanish won ugly: missing a penalty kick and dancing around midfield apparently wishing to preserve the score rather do anything interesting. One thing we know is that Reyers is no Henry. (Nor is Raul for that matter) But it is the same old story for both sides, lots of talent, slim on finishers, and slim on trophies in internationals.

The best kick of the night? The one kicking Madrid 2012 into the Ashbin. I would love to hear the chats right now between the Spanish FA and the Madrid 2012 organizing committee. Paris is still the front runner, but a Bernabeu full of jerks just handed NY and London a huge boost. Although Spain needs some formal sanction here, just losing the Olympics is almost enough.

And: according to the Guardian the Spanish officials were almost giving the seats away (£4 each!!!) and still the Bernabeu less than half-full? Indeed watch almost any match from top places like Nou Camp or Benabeau and you will see a lot of empty seats, what does that say about the health of the Spanish league?

I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
 
spinzels
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:00 am

As for 2006: Be afraid, be very afraid!!

Oh, very afraid. Especially after Lehman’s performance on Saturday: he held the Spurs to only four goals!
I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
 
Andreas
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:03 am

Racist chants don’t make much sense if they end up taunting your own side

Spinzels: Quite so, but who said those morons want to make sense...or are able to, for that matter  Big grin

And who says that Lehmann will be the German goalkeeper in 2006...I don't really think so!  Big grin Big grin

btw: I was talking about England to be afraid...not about Germany to be the reason ... I just take a look at the statistics: 1-0-0 vs. 3-4-3...you know what I mean Big grin Big grin Big grin



Gentlemen, I'm off to New York, back in 9 days...be nice to your neighbours, don't drink too much (except Kirkie), don't eat haggis (except Kirkie) and don't take shit from nobody! Big grin

Bye!

[Edited 2004-11-18 20:31:18]
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
racko
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:24 am

Quite funny that when Britain's best-selling newspapers come out with racist headlines on a daily business before a game against Germany, it's "British Humour".

But as soon as the same happens to the Brits (or some of the players in that case), a nation suddenly loses "their right to be considered a civilised footballing nation"(Telegraph).

Stones and glasshouse, anyone?

Not that I don't hate those racist chants from dumbasses (who probably cheer when a black player scores a goal for their team, but as soon as the black player is playing for the opponent he's the "f*cking nigga"), I just think you should maybe also think about yourself before you point at others.
 
GDB
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:53 am

What racist headlines? C'mon, a recent example, ill-informed knocking at Europe yes, but if a newspaper published an overtly racist headline, about the colour of someone's skin, they'd be in trouble.
(When the Daily Mirror did their stupid WW2 headline for Euro 96, they got attacked across the political spectrum and were suitably embarrassed by the whole affair).
And if any England coach made anything like the comments the Spanish coach has indulged in, he'd be out of his job, that day.

The fact is, that despite the past, England fans are now not the worst in Europe, not to say there is no trouble, but several European nations fans are worse, remember that French policeman nearly kicked to death in 2000? Remind us who did that.
But there is denial, the idea that you can still blame the English while turning a blind eye to your own thugs.

If you to get political, well compare the support the BNP gets here, (single % amounts at the very best) to their counterparts in so many other EU nations that keep banging on how they are so much more 'civilized' than us.

What happened in Spain did used to happen in UK grounds, that's DID happen, one commentator said it all, "what year are we in?"

FIFA should press for the Spanish Coach's resignation, if they refuse, well if England (deservedly) can be banned from Euro tournaments as in the 1980's, more recently be threatened with banning, why not anyone else?

Unless you really want to confirm the Euro-phobia of many people here, now it maybe ill-informed at times, but too often they have their views seemingly confirmed by continental hypocrisy, that goes way beyond Football and racism.


 
IBERIA747
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:59 am

You can flame me for this, but here's what I think of what happened last night:

I have never heard before at a Spanish arena the kind of noise or racist chants (whatever you call them) that was heard yesterday during the Spain Vs. England match. It's a real shame that a thing like that could happen in one of our top sports arenas, and of course it doesn't speak well about our supporters. However, I can't understand why are you so energic when calling Spaniards "racists" if we have in mind that none of that would have happened if the English tabloids had not tried to heat things up they way they did.

Ryanb741, I think you shouldn't generalize calling Spanish fans "racist scum" as there are more than 40 million people in this country and the few ones' behaviour last night was not "spontaneous"...btw it has been criticized by all means in Spain today.

Someone said that the lack of spectators yesterday at Bernabeu stadium could be a signal that the Spanish league is not attractive for people here. The truth is that unfortunately, the league here is more important than the national team for many people, and Madrid has never been very enthusiastic when it comes to the national team in particular. That's why the most important official matches are always played in Valencia or Sevilla.

btw I'm sorry this is in Spanish, but you should take a look at it.

http://www.marca.es/edicion/noticia/0,2458,562099,00.html

P.S. could someone explain what happened betwen Jonathan Woodgate and a guy from Pakistan? I did not see it, but an English friend told me that there was a racist attack, is that right?

And in 1996, right before the England Vs. Spain game that was played in the unforgettable Wembley, English fans used to make fun of Spaniards, saying that "Spaniards allow mustache and beard to grow so they can look like their mothers".

Anyway, it's not my intention to fight with anyone here. And as a side note, England has always been my 2nd favourite national team (after Spain of course).

[Edited 2004-11-18 23:09:43]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:48 pm

Yes, you're right about Woodgate. And it went to court and he was convicted of a crime. What more do you want?

No-one's saying that it doesn't exist here, in fact just about everyone has been at pains to make it clear that we aren't angels. The point is that we've fought extremely hard to do something about it. Racism at football matches is utterly unacceptable now. For all right thinking people it always was, but the enormous efforts have all but eliminated overt shows of racism. You can't stop what people think privately, but you can educate them. The decline of racism on the terraces must be at least partly due to changing attitudes as much as just keeping them quiet. It has to be hopeful that the England fans (who I've stood amongst at tournaments and internationals) were so shocked, because it means that the message has largely got through even to the dimmest of them.

As for blaming the English press, that's complete and utter crap. Arragones got stick in the English media because he called a player in the English league (albeit a Frenchman) a "black shit". That's somehow acceptable is it? If an English coach, any English coach let alone the national team one, said such a thing he'd be sacked within minutes, and he'd probably be unable to get another job too.

Naturally the press got on his case. It's pretty appalling that yours didn't. That pathetic set-up the following day when Arragones patted the face of a black kid which the Spanish media said showed he wasn't a racist is a case in point. To blame the English press for the disgusting noises we heard on Wednesday is ridiculous. At the press conference after the game Arragones was invited to condemn the racist abuse and refused to do so.

Making fun of the Spanish is no more unacceptable than you making fun of the English. If the Spanish fans had spent the entire evening singing songs about the English being drunk, or being fat, or anything, no-one would have batted an eyelid. It's the precise fact that they didn't, they just picked on the black players that so revolting. Seeing virtually all of the stadium joining in with the song "If you aren't fucking black jump up and down" is absolutely sickening.

This isn't about the press getting up a false frenzy. It isn't about any kind of faux indignation. People here were genuinely shocked and upset by what they heard. I cringed every single time the ball went out to Wright-Phillips or Ashley Cole, because I knew what was coming. The England team were genuinely upset by it, the players saing they han't heard anything like that before. The older generation of black players, like Garth Crooks who was in the stadium and who was instrumental in stamping out this hideous abuse in England, said it was like going back 25 years in time.

You've got to understand this. We're not making a mountain out of a molehill, the outrage is absolutely genuine.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
anxebla
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:47 pm

Guau!! .... wonderful issue to replace the present news from Irak, Mr Blair can be happy at the moment  Big grin
By the way... congratulations to all US a.net members who take part on this thread. It's lovely seeing how of interested they are on soccer and the Europeans affairs in general Big grin
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gkirk
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:52 pm

Err..this is a serious issue. Racism should not be tolerated, although to be fair, it's only a few mindless Spanish thugs doing this.

The vast majority of Spaniards are amongst the nicest people you'll find anywhere
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ryanb741
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:58 pm

Going back to the football, I thought Xavi was outstanding, as was the winger Joachin.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:20 pm

Absolutely, Kirkie, which is why it was all the more shocking.

Here's an interesting article on the subject, and though I don't really agree with the conclusion, it is thought-provoking. I don't want to see Spain banned from competition or anything like that, I want them to do something about it.

Paul Hayward is an excellent writer, and perhaps those who wonder what all the fuss was about would do well to read it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2004/11/19/sfnhay19.xml&sSheet=/sport/2004/11/19/ixfooty.html

Ryan, I thought the whole Spanish team were excellent. One tongue in cheek comment about England picking up the ball and walking off was that in practical terms it wasn't possible because England were never able to get the ball in the first place! Of course, Spain's performance was enhanced by a truly abysmal England display, but you do have to wonder how such a consistently excellent team (Spain, I mean, not England) can fail so often in major tournaments.

She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
EUROBUS
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:23 pm

I'm sorry!

In Spain we are not racist! As anybody who has been around Madrid or any other city, we are a multi-cultural and multi-race (do you say it like this?) country.

I am embarrassed at what happened, just the same as rest of the people who I have talked to about the incident, because it is not a reflection of our society.

Luis Aragonés should be given a notice. Football is always the centre of any radical behavior, and if the coach doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut, he shouldn't be where he is.

Who says airports are boring places?!
 
anxebla
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:24 pm

I did not see the match, therefore I don't have opinion.
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gkirk
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:28 pm

Just think, England lost to a team that couldnt beat Scotland  Big thumbs up
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anxebla
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:38 pm

EUROBUS.....
Luis Aragonés is a great coach. And I don't think he can be a racist... he's a bit "different" but he's not an evil person or something like that.

GKirk... yes, Spaniards, we are nice persons, usually. Thanks to remember it, anyway  Smile
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BCal Dc10
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:51 pm

And I don't think he can be a racist...

He was caught on tape calling Thierry Henry a "black shit" - how can that not be racist?
 
Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:53 pm

And I don't think he can be a racist...

I'm sorry? What part of "that black shit" is not racist? Now, we can get into the semantics of whether someone who makes a clearly racist statement is or is not racist overall, but Aragones' apparent refusal to accept that what he said might be in the least offensive is pretty telling.

Spain's a great country. No-one but a complete idiot would use this event as an excuse to bash Spain in general, but it seems some of the country is having a problem understanding why this is so offensive. It appears that it isn't that Spain is more or less racist than anywhere else, it's that there seems to be a substantial body of opinion that it is acceptable for others to be racist. This game was carried live around the world, and so have the media reports. It isn't just hyper-sensitive English who are appalled.
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anxebla
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:00 pm

L. Aragonés is not a bad person. Ok, he's a little strange. I think he had a bad day... that's all!
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ryanb741
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:03 pm

Right, so was Aparteid down to the South African government 'having a bad day'. Had Hitler simply got out of bed on the wrong side? Are the National Front simply feeling a bit down in the dumps?

Nonsense
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Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:06 pm

Why is he still in a job, Anexbla? Why is it that the coach of Spain, a man representing his country, can say something like that, not see it as any kind of problem, and not be sacked?

Do you not think that making an overtly racist comment is a sackable offence? If not, why not?

Please understand, I am absolutely not trying to make any kind of suggestion about yourself, I am asking why it is that such a comment is viewed as simply an example of " a bad day"?
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anxebla
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:20 pm

Banco.... Aragonés is pretty well knew for us. Of course, I'm saying he's NOT right. He's WRONG! but If he had a racist, now it would be impossible see him like the coach of Spain.
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Banco
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:26 pm

But the question of why he is still in a job remains. More to the point, how come he didn't receive even the slightest censure for those comments?

At what point does he go too far? When he says the National Party in South Africa were misunderstood? When he says Hitler had some good ideas? When he talks about different levels of intelligence for different races? When? When are the Spanish FA and the Spanish media going to raise even the slightest protest?

This is the failure. Aragones is a 66 year old man, with the views that a hell of a lot of 66 year old men hold. We had in England Ron Atkinson, of similar age, coming out with a racist remark on TV. He was fired, he had opprobrium heaped on him, and he's made several grovelling apologies since.

At what point are your media and football association going to make the slightest comment saying it is unacceptable? Why, as a nation, are you tolerating it?

Saying he's just like that isn't good enough.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
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RE: Spain Vs England

Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:44 pm

Maybe he might leave. I don't know, but anyway, I'm not very interested in soccer. When he was working by Atlético de Madrid some people call him "el borracho" (drunk) I saw it, when few years ago I went to see an At. Madrid match at Vicente Calderon stadium.
But, really, I don't be interested very much in football.
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