UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:44 pm





I just tried the 180hp 2.0 VTS Coupe...I think I won't be getting that A3 after all  Big grin

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
jetblast
Posts: 950
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:19 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:49 pm

Pretty cool looking! I love that Smart car thing....

JetBlast @ BWI  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Speedbird Concorde One
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:52 pm

Wonder what the C4 will be competing against in the next European CoTY...

I'd love to see the C4 win - Citroën is definitely rediscovering its gone-but-not-forgotten style, technical innovation and emphasis on comfort. At last, a manufacturer who is content not to chase all those Type-Rs, Cupras and GTIs (Mk Vs, at least  Big grin) in this segment, and who recognises that not everyone wants sportiness in a family car.

Just imagine, back in the days of the Xsara, Mégane I, Mk IV Golf and Astra, when the Focus was pretty much the only offering that emphasised design in any great way. Now look at today's small family hatch market... what a difference!

I'm intrigued as to what the Berlingo Multispace replacement is going to be like... should be good! Citroën's reinvention will then be complete!

Rich  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:53 pm

UTA
European Car of the Year for 2005 has been already announced: TOYOTA PRIUS. And no other car deserves it more...
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:55 pm

Yikes...it looks like the Pontiac Aztec.

From my point of view, I don't understand what is Citroen thinking. I find their newest models are very trendy and fashionable now, but in 4 years more we'll think they're horrible (I'm talking specifically abou the C2 and C3). It seems they're making disposable cars.
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:12 pm

I notice it has a 2 parts aft windshield, a bit like the Smart Brabus.

Having tested the aforementioned Smart, I remember checking in the rearview mirror was a real PITA. Is it also the case for the C4 coupe, or did they manage to do better ?

cheers,

707
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:14 pm

http://www.caroftheyear.org/pages/Coty05.htm

1. Toyota Prius - 406 pts.
2. Citroën C4 - 267 pts.
3. Ford Focus - 228 pts.
4. Opel Astra - 180 pts.
5. Renault Modus - 151 pts.
6. Peugeot 407 - 135 pts.
7. BMW 1 - 83 pts.


Wonder what the C4 will be competing against in the next European CoTY...

It will not be competing in the 2006 CoTY, because it was introduced in 2004 and has been already nominated for the 2005 CoTY.
 
desertjets
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:45 pm

Citroen has always been known for its somewhat off the wall styling and technical details. But in the past decade, decade and a half, their line-up has consisted of nothing but mildly reskinned Peugeots.... not saying that Pugs are bad cars. But now by taking the generally very good PSA corporate mechinals and put the cool looking sheet metal on it.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:51 am

What the heck, no Fiat?

Anyway, as always the ones who bribed the most journalists win. You hardly see any Prius on the road here...

I hate the steering wheel of that Citroen, Nobody ever asked for the center of the wheel not to turn...
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:15 am

Racko,
I agree with you that some (many) of the past winners were rather surprising and controversial. 1986 - Ford Scorpio, 1987 - Opel Omega, 1996 - Fiat Bravo/Brava, 1991 - Renault Clio, 1998 - Alfa Romeo 156, 2003 - Renault Megane just to name a few.
However, I think that Prius really deserves it for making a hybrid engine a truly viable option. A real advancement in automotive industry.

On the other hand, I think that polls and stats like TÜV or JD Power tell you more about which car is good and which is not.
 
Thom@s
Posts: 11674
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:18 am

I don't care what the award that car with, it is u-g-l-y.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:28 am

Can you say "BUTT UGLY"? And what's that display supposed to be? A speedo?  Laugh out loud I hate the Twingo for this, and I'll hate that... thing for it.

Setzen, sechs.  Big grin
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:31 am

it is u-g-l-y.

Prius or C4? Or both?
 
DABZF
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:25 pm

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:00 am

Interior looks horrible!
Otherwise not too bad.
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
Thom@s
Posts: 11674
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:04 am

"Prius or C4? Or both?"

That thing in the pic up there...  Smile

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:42 am

Ok, so I for one didn't realise that CoTY 2005 had already been announced - admittedly it was only three days ago  Big grin

The Prius was a worthy winner - as ecologically sound as its predecessor, but far more practical and relevant. Perhaps in a year without the C4, Focus and Astra, the Renault Modus would have done better - however, I'm not convincec of the Peugeot 407's place in the final seven. And BMW should probably be worried...

Rich
 
tristarenvy
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:00 am

Better looking than that Mégane Renault Sport. Ow!!
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:07 am

Better looking than that Mégane Renault Sport. Ow!!

Noooo!! The Mégane Renaultsport looks the business! I saw one the other day in black, and it looked... well, see the "bollocks" thread for a suitable expression!

Rich  Big grin
 
alcregular
Posts: 2139
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:11 am

It loos more like a Renault Megane really.
Why drive when you can fly?
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:13 am

HA! Good line RED.

Renault needs to let Citroen stick to the "different" style of car. One expected that from them. The DS was gorgeous, the CX fantastic, and the XM a thing from another world.

Why, oh why can't we get cars like this HERE in the good old U.S. of A.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:14 am

The first thing I noticed was the tiny rear windshield. How do you use your rear view mirror on a car like that??
NO URLS in signature
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:20 am

The first thing I noticed was the tiny rear windshield.

Wasn't there a 3-door Mazda 323 in 1st half of 1990s with the same design idea of the rear windshield?


BTW, late models Citroën XM with Hydroactive 2 that's one fine car... except for the gas mileage.
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:35 am

That whole split glass rear hatch thing is not very likeable.

The first time I remember seeing that was on the first generation Honda CRX. My Aztek has it, as well, and believe me, it takes a while to get used to the big horizontal line across the rear view mirror.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:35 am

I just cannot stand those "little" cars. I don't think a full sized truck or SUV is necessary, but these things? YUK. VW Golf rehash...all of them. Hopefully, with Focus sales waning, there will be fewer and fewer of those to look at here. And the Prius?! Hideous...Corolla out of a trash compactor.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:06 am

Cwapilot,
the 1960s ended four decades ago!
US-made gas-guzzling inefficient monsters are becoming more and more kind of automotive dinosaurs. No surprise that rest of the world sees smaller, efficient cars using alternative fuels as the way of the future.
But as long as you are willing to waste your GIs and be in fact hostages of the Saudis...
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:20 am

Wow...can't even express an opinion about a car without being attacked! Can't a bunch of guys discuss cars without a bunch of sanctimonious environmentalist crap being tossed about, with attacks on the United States to boot? What kind of world is this?
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:29 am

How the hell did the Toyota Prius win the European car of the year??! Its one of the most ugliest looking things I have seen...might as well award "car of the year" to the Suzuki Wagon-R!

Gotta agree with Racko...wheres Fiat??! I think they make some of the best cars in the world...way better than all the Korean ones like kia and hyundai..no offence but, ewwww I hate those Korean cars.
אני תומך בישראל
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:34 am

I can't STAND that fricking speedometer, I can't STAND the whole rear of the car and i'd imagine its a bitch for rear visibility. What a crap car!
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:34 am

The DS was gorgeous, the CX fantastic, and the XM a thing from another world.



*drool*
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:35 am

Whoa that thing is ugly!
Bring back the Concorde
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:42 am

With the hydraulics "down" it's a better looker. The DS "break", or wagon, looks better than the sedan.

If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:49 am

Yes, I'm not sure why Citroën photographed the Goddess with the suspension up. If it's good enough for Concorde to be drooped.....

I don't agree with you on the DS break, though - to my eyes it lacks the beauty of the saloon. Having said that, I've just re-read that you drive an Aztek, so I'm sure we're going to differ on some aspects of car design  Big grin

[Edited 2004-11-18 22:51:22]
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:55 am

I didn't buy it for it's looks. It was cheap, and fully loaded. (And I couldn't find a nice Rover 3800  Big grin)

I have a copy of Collectible Automobile from 1998 or so that does a great article on the "Goddess" Citroen. Some of the one off's that Chapron (I have butched the spelling I'm sure) did, like the convertible, and some parade cars, are gorgeous. They had drawings of what the DS might have looked like had it not been replaced by the CX. I would prefer the CX, actually.

If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:33 am

Nice looking car but Citroen build quality is scary.

If the C3 is anything to go by, I'd rather get the bus.

This was the best car they ever made



The SM Maserati
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: This Will Be The European Car Of The Year!

Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:10 pm

In my experience C3 build quality is, by and large, fine. My mother has driven one since new two years ago, and hasn't had any problems with the build. It has suffered a couple of mechanical problems, which I reckon were probably unrepresentative of current Citroën mechanicals, too.

Early press reports of C3 quality were majorly overstated, and based on pre-production and very early-build cars. As one Autocar tester said (I forget who, and when exactly), if you pull a piece of trim hard enough in any car it's bound to come off.

Granted, Citroën doesn't use the best materials in the C2/C3/Pluriel, but then it does cost far less than cars like the SEAT Ibiza and Škoda Fabia. (Note that I'm not including the latest generation of VW Polo in "cars that feel upmarket inside", because it doesn't - it feels cheap and dour. Unlike the previous (facelifted) version (which, incidentally, was my mother's C3's predecessor), which felt far more expensive inside than it had any right to.)

Bottom line is, as far as I've seen, the C3 is screwed together perfectly well, being in a (thankfully) different league to the Saxo. Unfortunately the same can't be said of the C3 Pluriel, with reports last week that 500 of the 5000 sold so far in the UK have leaky roofs...  Sad

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