PJ295
Topic Author
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:51 am

Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:25 am

A great moment for Detroit sports fans......kind of like after the 84 world series win. I didn't see a post about this yet. I wonder what effects will be for all teams across the league.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1927380
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:31 am

I was thinking about starting a thread on this too. The article really doesnt do that scene justice, it was very, very ugly. Ron Artest is about as big a hot head as the league has seen. Imagine, all this happened with a mellow Rasheed Wallace too!
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:36 am

Rasheed Wallace showed some of the most class of any in this whole incident! If you see the replay, he's consistently trying to break up fights and scuffles, he manages to keep his cool the entire time.
NO URLS in signature
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:17 am

It took the cake when the tape showed a referee getting hit in the head with a bottle and an old man on the ground who may have been hit by the chair. That was very disgusting. I hope the NBA and Auburn Hills Police come down hard on whoever needs to be. This is also why beer shouldn't be sold after halftime or the 3rd quarter.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:25 am

I was simply amazed, I watched this live. I am still in shock about this. Anyone who would want to fight a pro player of any sport is a numbskull.
Go big or go home
 
KYIPpilot
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:14 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:28 am

PJ295: Do not rag on Detroit. Was it embarrassing, yes, and it was an unfortunate occurance, but don't fault all the Detroit fans. It was a few bad apples that ruined the image.

Since its not in your profile, where are you from? I bet its not perfect either.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:29 am

Sadly, this is going to hurt NBA fans nationwide as perhaps the NBA might force stadiums to move the stands further away from the players. Like always, it always takes some drunk assholes to ruin it for everyone. Did anyone see that footage of the kid crying in the stands?

[Edited 2004-11-20 20:30:47]
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:33 am

Mds- oddly enough, I know the young kid. He is one of the Piston's sons. I will not say which one, but this Piston had his three sons at the summer camp that I worked at. Great kids. The NBA fellow was real nice too.
Go big or go home
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:52 am

Just saw some of the footage - and DAMN that punch one of the players landed would have made even Iron Mike proud.

Having said that, the player that decided to wander into the stands to "talk" to the guy throwing beer at him, did an incredible stupid thing. He should have had security to remove the man. Instead, he's the one looking forward to probably a major fine as well as some suspension time.
 
PJ295
Topic Author
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:12 am

"PJ295: Do not rag on Detroit. Was it embarrassing, yes, and it was an unfortunate occurance, but don't fault all the Detroit fans. It was a few bad apples that ruined the image.

Since its not in your profile, where are you from? I bet its not perfect either."

I grew up in Flint...........I love all of the Detroit teams (I will always be a lifetime fan of the Pistons, Tigers, Red Wings, Lions) . I do think that these idiots really made fans in SE Michigan look bad. It takes a few to ruin it for everyone.....like the idiots after the 84 world series. I no longer live in Michigan and currently live in the ATL metro area......
 
KYIPpilot
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:14 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:17 am

Well, it was still just a few bad apples; unfortunately that gives the whole area a negative image.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12429
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:56 am

I was announced about 3:30 pm, EST, that the NBA:
Is suspending indefinately 3 Pacers (including Artest) and Wallace of Detroit.
Will review security and related policies at all venues
Will cooperate with police investigations.

Want to bet that some guys will be in jail? One player (from Phoenix) watching the game from home, suggested that there will be huge civil lawsuits by the fans, going for 'that NBA money'. I bet some lawyers have already met with fan 'victims'. Guess some players involved will have to go for a Cavilier instead of the Esclade with the 'dubs' wheels.....

It is sad that so few in Detroit have to be such idiots. But it is so clear to players they will pay if they go into the crowd. Did you see the reaction of some of the children at the game that saw that? It was a scary incident. It is one of the blackest moments in NBA history. Both teams should be fined millions for allowing it to happen, maybe they should both be exclued from the opportunity to be in the playoffs. (like college teams in NCAA trouble are excluded from post-season games)
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:30 am

On an another note, if Indiana loses O'Neal, Artest, and Jackson for the rest of the season, they are done for. They won't need to be banned from the playoffs.
NO URLS in signature
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:35 am

The NBA needs to take some serious measures here! First of all, Artest ought to get a very serius ultimatum. This has to have been his last misconduct! He is constantly in the middle of controversy. First the TV´s, then his record, now the fight! What else?
Then, Jermaine O´neal needs to have a serious suspension here! Did you see the punch he threw at a Pistons fan? he nocked him on the floor! This is uneacceptable behaviour. This guys are athletes and get paid accordingly, how on earth can they engage in fights against normal people, knwoing their phisical advantage over them is way to big????
And then Stephen Jackson. No comments here, should get a serious suspension as well.

now, on Ben wallace, it´s hard to determine. He was only involved in pushing Artest, and then going after him. But when alll the fights started to happen, he kept out of them. He shoud get a 4/5 game suspension. Also, bear in mind he´s just lost a brother. I understand Ben´s reaction. He is not emotionally stable, and he got Ron Artest bothering him all game.

Finally, this fight is not NBA´s doom, but rather something very positive in terms of money. Just think of all the people who´ll now watch pistons-pacers now
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:49 am

I was thinking, if Shaq was on Indy, I bet no one would have thrown anything at anyone. Who would want to mess with a 7'2'' 340lbs man? Big grin
Go big or go home
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:24 am

Unfortunately, for better or for worse, this just strengthen's the view middle America has about cities like Detroit, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and Boston. Wheather or not its justified, much of the country views these cities in a negative way due to the hot-headedness and thugishness they percieve the population there to be. I don't think you would ever see anything like this in citeis like Minneapolis, Dallas, or Kansas City.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
electraBob
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:57 am

I think the NBA, The Pistons, Pacers and the Palace of Auburn Hills have got to be very grateful that this incident happened when it did....with 45 seconds left to go and the game pretty much decided....many of the 22,000+ fans in attendance last night had already left...there were many, many empty seats behind the benches and scorers table. I'd hate to think what may have happened if this awful incident would have taken place half way through the second or third quarter.

The image I will remember is that of the young Pistons fan, shown in the stands with tears streaming down his face....so many young fans look up to these pro athletes...this poor kid had to witness this crap.

Sad....very, very sad.

Quite interesting....the Pistons and Pacers do not play again until.....Christmas Day.
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
KYIPpilot
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:14 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:45 am

I don't think you would ever see anything like this in citeis like Minneapolis, Dallas, or Kansas City.

Why not? I would bet that the same situation could happen at any sporting event in any city. Just because a certain city does not fit the mold of Detroit or New York does not mean it won't happen there.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:19 am

Why not?

Well for one, I am unaware of any precedent of this happening in middle america. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it is much more common in the cities I mentioned. This year the yankees fans threw thing onto the field in new york. There was the Cleveland NFL incident. The attack on the coach at Comisky park. I don't recall this ever happening in the cities i mentioned.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but it doesn't happen. And it doesn't help the perception amercians have.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Ass Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:21 am

I've appropriately retitled the thread. You wouldn't see this happening at a Red Wings game (The fan that was heckling is probably a disgruntled hockey fan needing to vent out pent up anger).
 
CactusA319
Posts: 2822
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:40 am


Well don't expect anyone to "get suspended for the season". The only way that'll ever happen is if someone gets killed or critically injured, which did not happen last night. There'll be a lot of finger pointing and hand wringing (similar to what's going in this thread) but eventually all that's going to happen is that the players involved will get fined, serve suspensions (most likely none longer than 10 games max) and the NBA will just try to get people to forget and move on. Either that or hype the shit out of the rematch.

I'll be midly surprised if any criminal charges are filed. When Texas Rangers pitcher Frank Francisco threw a chair into the stands and broke that lady's nose, he was let go and no charges were filed. I'm sure the same will happen here. Maybe you'll see a lawsuit or two and maybe it'll get settled out of court for a few hundred thousand. But how are you going to sue someone for clocking you in the face after you throw a cup full of water at them? When they did absolutely nothing to you? As for those fatasses in Pistons gear that got clocked by Artest and O'Neal? I'm glad they got punched out. How in the hell are you going to run out onto the court and threaten a player and expect them to look the other way? So what if the player is bigger than them, they shouldn't be going on the court to look for a fight in the first place. They got what they deserved.



 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:45 am

Why not?

Well for one, I am unaware of any precedent of this happening in middle america.


Detroit is "middle America". It is not comparable to Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York City.

It is quite ironic that this did happen in Detroit, a city with terrible image in the first place, but it can happen anywhere...Orlando, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles. There was a big incident in Orlando about two years ago when a fan through beer onto the a player from a visting team after he was ejected.
a.
 
RoastedNutz
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 12:18 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:50 am


Detroit is still a major city though. Larger and meaner than cities like Minneapolis or Kansas City. Still this wasn't even in Detroit proper. Isn't Aubrun Hills one of the nicer Detroit suburbs? And whoever thinks this wouldn't happen at one of these "high moral-value, salt-of-the-Earth Midwestern cities" is full of crap. Something like this could happen at any major sporting event given the right circumstances.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:47 am

And whoever thinks this wouldn't happen at one of these "high moral-value, salt-of-the-Earth Midwestern cities" is full of crap. Something like this could happen at any major sporting event given the right circumstances.


I'm not saying it won't happen, it just isn't as common.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8010
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:05 pm

Just when I thought sports fans here in the USA are less likely to have the type of hooliganism that plagues European association football matches, this debacle at the Pacers-Pistons game had to happen.  Insane

Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson are at least suspended through the end of the 2004 calendar year; Ben Wallace will likely be back by the third week in December 2004. I wouldn't be surprised that Artest and Jackson are suspended at minimum through the NBA All-Star Break.

Shameful, shameful behavior.
 
KYIPpilot
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:14 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:13 pm

I'm not saying it won't happen, it just isn't as common.

It is not common in Detroit, either. When the Red Wings won the Stanley Cup a few times, nobody misbehaved. When the Pistons won, nobody misbehaved. Throughout the years of the terrible Lions and Tigers seasons, nobody got out of control.

And given the right circumstances, it could very well happen in Minneapolis, Dallas, or Kansas City.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:15 pm

I went to watch a basketball game and a soccer fight broke out.  Big grin
Ain't I a stinker?
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:26 pm

My domicile showing its true colors..that was pretty dang cool...
Chicks dig winglets.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:33 pm

Detroit is "middle America".

OH hell no.

Detroit is part of the rust belt.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Tiger119
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:19 pm

"now, on Ben wallace, it´s hard to determine. He was only involved in pushing Artest, and then going after him. But when alll the fights started to happen, he kept out of them. He shoud get a 4/5 game suspension. Also, bear in mind he´s just lost a brother. I understand Ben´s reaction. He is not emotionally stable, and he got Ron Artest bothering him all game."

- Were you watching the same fight/game I was? The "push" you're talking about could have seriously injured Artest. If that "push" would have hit him in his Larynx, say good night! What Artest did immediately after that "push" was the right thing, get away from the aggressor. He was laying on the scorers bench actually talking with the Pacers' radio play by play game crew when the benches were jaw jackin' with each other on the court in front of him.

What Artest did after that was WRONG! Never, ever go into the stands. As far as Artests' "Self Defense" angle, it's not going to fly. The person who threw the cup was too far away and he did not know what person actually threw the cup.

And as far as Ben is concerned, if "He is not emotionally stable," why is he in the game? I understand all too much about bereavement. If he needs time off, don't play. If you do play, don't come back with that "bereavement card" and use it as an excuse for doing something stupid. Writers are calling the foul Artest laid on Wallace as "A Hard Foul." That was a love tap in the NBA. Ever watch Shaq play? And what Wallace was doing during the melee was cheering and "eggin'" on people, mostly the ones in the stands! Where in the heck were the coaches? Why didn't one of them actually grab him (Wallace) and pull him off the court? Everyone knew he was going to get tossed from the game!

What Stephen Jackson did was way, way over the line! Jackson will get a minimum of 30 games.

When Artest got back on the court, it was a fan that approached him and squared off on Ron. I don't condone Artest or O'Neal poundin' the guy, but I don't blame them for it either. Who knows what anyone would have done in that situation. I understand Artests' reaction a little more than O'Neal's. O'Neal was a distance away from that incident and came running into the scene. O'Neal will get at least 30 games as well. Who knows about Artest!

Wallace ought to get as many games off as the rest of them. And what about The Palace? Once again, security? What security? How about the NBA handing down a penalty that (on top of the player suspensions), well, how about two games to be played with no fans in the stands? Why not?  Yeah sure Just pay back the ticket holders the value of the tickets! Or how about a couple games with no alcohol sold? Period. The problem with that is there were 22,000 people that paid (good) money for tickets. It was a small percentage, very small at that, that was causing the problem. Has anyone seen ESPN's poll question of the night (Saturday night)? Look it up. Over 200,000 people took part of the poll and about 48% of those voting blame the crowd. Interesting.

"It is quite ironic that this did happen in Detroit, a city with terrible image in the first place............"

- You're right, it could have happened anywhere, but why are people blaming "The City of Detroit?" It's not the fault of the city, The Palace isn't in Detroit, it's not even in the same freakin' county. If you mean southeast Michigan, then say it. Detroit doesn't need any bad press.

- Did anyone else see the interview that Jim Gray (or is it Grey) did with that Auburn Hills chief officer from the police department? I don't think the guy ever did answer either question Jim asked! Sounded like he skated around both of them!

- The reason for the lengthy post? I am one of those people that spend "Good Money" every year, about 4 or 5 games a year to see an NBA game (Pacers home games of course). And I'm talking about those three digit dollar seats! No nose bleed seats for me. I never want to see anything like that happen again in professional sports.





[Edited 2004-11-21 11:39:34]

[Edited 2004-11-21 11:42:10]

[Edited 2004-11-21 11:43:40]
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
Stretch 8
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 4:00 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:56 am

The problem here is not the fans, but a few of them should be prosecuted.

It is the increasing perception that the NBA is full of young, underachieving, unprofessional, richer-than-ever thug divas unable to maintain the level of play established by the previous generation's stars. You would never have seen Jordan, Magic, Isaiah, or Bird going into the crowd to fight fans.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:17 am

Just a quick geography lesson for all of you Detroit bashers. The Palace of Auburn Hills is in.......you guessed it....Auburn Hills, not Detroit. As a crow flies, Auburn Hills is roughly an hour north of downtown Detroit (give or take, depending on traffic and construction on I-75). This ugly incident could just as easily have taken place at any other NBA arena in the country so lay off Detroit....for this anyway.

As a few posters mentioned, there have been several significant sports-related victories that have taken place since 1984 (gee, that was only about 21 years ago) where the vast majority of fans have conducted themselves in a mature manner. And, as ugly as Friday's incident was, nobody was killed (as was the case in Boston) and no one was seriously injured and the league responded quickly and appropriately. I am sure the prosecutor's office will do so as well.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:28 am

Damn these soccer fans are so violent, what a disgrace!
 
neilalp
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 3:16 am

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:37 am

Wasn't it Cleveland that threw beer bottles on the field of a Football game last year?

The man who threw the cup, is not allowed to drink on court order and shouldn't have been drinking is what the latest story is.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:51 pm

A new twist to the story is that it was David Gorcyca who, after reviewing TV footage of the incident, identified the unknown fan who threw the beer on Artess that started the brawl. He recognized the guy as being a former neighbor of his in a Detroit suburb. The irony is that Gorcyca is the Oakland County prosecutor who will determine what, if any, criminal charges will be brought.
 
Tiger119
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:22 pm

"The man who threw the cup, is not allowed to drink on court order and shouldn't have been drinking is what the latest story is."

- Maybe he (Mr Cup Thrower) will go back to jail/prison since he was direct violation of a court order. Most judges don't like their orders being ignored!
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Detroit Shows Its Class Again

Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:58 pm

- Maybe he (Mr Cup Thrower) will go back to jail/prison since he was direct violation of a court order. Most judges don't like their orders being ignored!

He and his mouthpiece (attorney) are saying he was drinking pop, not beer at the game. Of course he also went on national TV and said he is a law abiding citizen. This is the same guy who has a couple convictions for DUI, attempted to bribe a police officer with Pistons tickets in an attempt to get out of a speeding ticket, had a personal protection order filed against him by a woman he allegedly assaulted, and who ordered his german shepard to attack a TV reporter who was standing well off his property while trying to get a statement. Yeah, citizen of the year candidate there.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PacificBeach88 and 6 guests