CPH-R
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The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:55 pm

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=8d8f2e4c453564c2&cat=c08dd24cec417021

I wonder when "Move America Forward" realises that the UN property in New York isn't US land, but international territory?
 
airplay
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:14 pm

I would welcome the UN headquarters in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. Truly world class cities in a relatively benevolent and neutral country.

Someday when sanity is returned to the White House, some will realize how huge a mistake this was (is).

Will other countries ever join such an organisation with the US again?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:22 pm

OK,

ONE: There is NO news of this anywhere else at least that I've seen.

TWO: The page you linked has an article on Saddam's lawyers.

THREE: Even if true, these few "Repubs" can do jack shit about it. There's still enough Dems to provide an opposition, and enough moderates (the only intellectually sound people, PERIOD) to block such a move.

People, IQs are a dime a dozen, quit being so damn cheap.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:53 pm

Wow, that didn't help your case at all. "moveameriaforward" is just another cracked up fringe site, no different than its counterpart "moveone.org". If you actually take this effort seriously, and believe that it will lead to the UN being booted, I pity you.

And as for "moveamericaforward"...I have my own petition those clowns can sign, one that calls for Washington D.C. to be towed out to sea and sunk. No surprise that such an organization comes from California...the land of fruits and nuts. I also love how they call themselves "non-partisan". Bullshit, Airplay. The UN will stay in place...end of story.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
airplay
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:57 pm

Umm...this thread was started to discuss the subject. It is clear that you feel strongly about the questionable source. Good for you. Unfortunatly you chose the worst possible way to express your views. Attack the message, not the messanger Boeing4ever....
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:24 am

Umm...this thread was started to discuss the subject. It is clear that you feel strongly about the questionable source. Good for you. Unfortunatly you chose the worst possible way to express your views. Attack the message, not the messanger Boeing4ever....

Bullshit, plain and simple. Let's not beat around the bush...I've watched the A.net partisans bitch and snipe long enough to recognize who on here has an agenda, and I'm not buying your crap Airplay. And these statements of yours don't lend credence to the "I'm a messenger" fall back defense...

I would welcome the UN headquarters in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. Truly world class cities in a relatively benevolent and neutral country.

Oh, benevolent and neutral are you? You're no more benevolent or neutral than John Ashcroft or Ted Kennedy...more like transparent to me. World class cities eh? No argument there...but what in your crackpot mind makes New York a non-world class city!?

Someday when sanity is returned to the White House, some will realize how huge a mistake this was (is).

What sanity!? I know your agenda...you want right wing nutjob replaced with left wing nutjob, no beating around the bush there either...either way, you're whole ideology stands in the way of the true intelligentsia of the middle.

Will other countries ever join such an organisation with the US again?

Countries that don't hold the petty bitch grudges you're holding will.  Insane

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Klaus
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:32 am

Most countries on the planet would consider it an honour to host the UN within their borders. It would be a huge mistake of historic proportions to expel them.
 
tristarenvy
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:39 am

Where's the John Birch Society when you need 'em?  Big grin Just KIDDING!!!

Keep the UN right here.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
airplay
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:02 am

Boeing4ever....you obviously have your panties in a major bunch. This subject must be closed to your heart. Again however it is unfortunate that you chose personal attacks over dialogue.

I've watched the A.net partisans bitch and snipe long enough to recognize who on here has an agenda, and I'm not buying your crap Airplay.

An agenda? Please fill me in on my “agenda” and then perhaps we’ll both know. On second thought, don’t bother. Save your strength for one of your other obsessions….
 
MD-90
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:18 am

I'd rather see the US withdraw from the UN.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:33 am

Boeing4ever....you obviously have your panties in a major bunch. This subject must be closed to your heart. Again however it is unfortunate that you chose personal attacks over dialogue.

An agenda? Please fill me in on my “agenda” and then perhaps we’ll both know. On second thought, don’t bother. Save your strength for one of your other obsessions….

Don't start Airplay, I know what you were attempting to start with reply 1, and if the hammer came down on you as a result, don't complain. I've watched the same people start fight after fight, and squeeze out everybody else. It's time to put the squeeze on the same people.

Now, for another low point in the thread...

I'd rather see the US withdraw from the UN.

You know a popular statement by "ugly Americans" such as yourself is that the Europeans let Hitler come to power and didn't do anything about him. Well you know, the League of Nations would have been able to do more had the US been a member of it. And don't give me our neutrality as our interest as an excuse, I know you too well, much like our frightened member Airplay...do you consider Iraq a neutral action?

Whether you like it or not, America resides on the same planet as Europe, Asia, Australia, etc. Rather than isolating ourselves, and opening ourselves up to attacks by certain agitators like Airplay, perhaps we should actually do more reaching out to the world. Or is that against the diction of Herr Bush as well!?  Insane

I don't know which of you is sadder...I guess we'll find out soon though.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Klaus
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MD-90

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:33 am

MD-90: I'd rather see the US withdraw from the UN.

Go ahead, make your rogue nation status official!  Nuts
 
airplay
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:37 am

Whether you like it or not, America resides on the same planet as Europe, Asia, Australia, etc. Rather than isolating ourselves, and opening ourselves up to attacks by certain agitators like Airplay, perhaps we should actually do more reaching out to the world. Or is that against the diction of Herr Bush as well!?

Agitator? Hey read the contents of the posts. I didn't start any movement to kick the UN out of the US. I merely made it clear that Canadians would recognize the value of having the UN. Just as Americans should.

Believe it or not Boeing4ever, we're on the same side here. The people who are behind this are idiots.

As far as "agitators" go, you should really review this entire thread. You will quickly realize where the agitation is coming from....or just look in a mirror. In any event, try to calm down before you post again...
 
MD-90
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:10 pm

If it hadn't been for foolish Woodrow Wilson and his determination to interefere with European politics there probably never would've been a WWII. You can insult me, a fellow American, all you want, but I actually have a reason for saying what I say. The UN is a cesspool of corruption, much like far too many of its member nations. The US has regrettably supported some of the vilest dictators that the world has ever known through the UN and by the distribution of foreign aid.

The idea of a United Nations-type insitution is not a bad one, however the current model is corrupt beyond belief and does not adequately live up to its lofty ideals.
 
StarAC17
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:24 pm

I would welcome the UN headquarters in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. Truly world class cities in a relatively benevolent and neutral country.

New York is as World Class as they come in North America Airplay. I agree that the UN should be in a more neutral country like Switzerland but it is in New York since it started so i t might as well stay there.

I'd rather see the US withdraw from the UN.

Repubs would like this much more.


Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
wn700driver
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:55 pm

Go ahead, make your rogue nation status official!

Right, because the germans have been such great neighbors, certainly good enough to lecture other countries about being rogues. It really is too bad the US was rogue enough that you didn't have to type that crap in Russian.

And the amazing thing is how my entire extended fam (Residing in the EU), likes to joke about Americans having short memories. . .

As for the topic, who cares? The UN may have had such lofty ideals once, but when a Capitalist Democratic republic only has the same representation that some tin-pot dictatorship or corrupt-beyond-belief tuotonic weapon smuggler has, it's really all acedemic. The UN just is not a worthwhile effective institution. Either they will rubber stamp the US, or they will support theocratic dictatorships. Good thing we have it around. . .
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
gigneil
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:01 pm


And as for "moveamericaforward"...I have my own petition those clowns can sign, one that calls for Washington D.C. to be towed out to sea and sunk.


May I please have some advance warning of this? I need to get to higher ground first.

N
 
OYRJA
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:30 pm

Hey!

If the Yanks don't want it because the UN is bad. You are more than welcome to place the UN in Copenhagen. I would be damn proud if that happened  Big thumbs up
 
Arrow
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:42 pm

"If it hadn't been for foolish Woodrow Wilson and his determination to interefere with European politics there probably never would've been a WWII."

I thought the U.S. opted out of the League of Nations, despite it having been Wilson's brainchild. You really think the US could have prevented WWII?

"The US has regrettably supported some of the vilest dictators that the world has ever known through the UN and by the distribution of foreign aid."

The first part is true -- but I don't think you can blame that on the UN. Policy decisions by a succession of administrations in the White House did that -- from Nixon through Clinton. How is that the UN's fault?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Klaus
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Wn700driver

Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:15 am

Wn700driver: Right, because the germans have been such great neighbors, certainly good enough to lecture other countries about being rogues.

Having a history of being a bully until 60 years ago and two generations of peaceful and constructive work and being a good neighbour since then sure help recognizing a bully when we see one. Especially with that history.


Wn700driver: It really is too bad the US was rogue enough that you didn't have to type that crap in Russian.

Sorry, no cheap excuses.


Wn700driver: As for the topic, who cares?

Most people apart from yourself.

Wn700driver: The UN may have had such lofty ideals once, but when a Capitalist Democratic republic only has the same representation that some tin-pot dictatorship or corrupt-beyond-belief tuotonic [huh?] weapon smuggler [who are you talking about?] has, it's really all acedemic. ["academic", perhaps?]

And, no. It´s called democracy. Same principle that gives your vote the same weight as your despised neighbour, a millionaire or any celebrity.

You may disagree with the choice of leadership (or lack of choice) for a given country, but they´re still the representatives of their respective populations.

And what you´re calling for simply seems to be that you´ll have your say but other people on the planet just have to obey without being heard - just like "nobility" and serfs in a bygone era.

Since 96% of the people on the planet would fall in the latter category in your favourite world order, you won´t find much appreciation for that kind of idea.


Wn700driver: The UN just is not a worthwhile effective institution.

Yeah; Why not return to the "good old times" of authoritarian dictatorship!  Nuts


Wn700driver: Either they will rubber stamp the US, or they will support theocratic dictatorships.

What are you talking about? You clearly have no clue what you´re talking about.


Wn700driver: Good thing we have it around. . .

In view of the alternative, absolutely!
 
CPH-R
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:51 am

Either they will rubber stamp the US, or they will support theocratic dictatorships.

The difference between those two are becoming razor-thin these days, with Bush selling himself to the Christian right & republicans being in control of just about every house & chamber. The only thing that's currently keeping the US from descending into a theocratic dictatorship is the few Democrats that currently keeps the republicans from having 2/3 majority in the Senate. If they ever recieve that 2/3 majority, non-christian, non-caucasion, non-heterosexual people in the US might sure hell start trembling with fear.

I was stunned to read the other day, that the majority of people in the US believed in the Creationism myth over the Evolution theory. Only 16% of those surveyed said that they didn't believe God had ANYTHING to do in creating the Universe & everything in it. I remember reading, that a very large percentage of americans believe the the Rapture (ie. Jesus Christ re-dux), which is why US politics wrt Israel is basically a hands-off one. Israel can do just about anything they want, without the US protesting, because Bush needs the well-willingness of Israel, to show off to his base (in case you're unfamiliar with the Rapture, it basically says that once Jesus steps down from above, Israel and everyone in it will go to hell, while every devout Christian will go to heaven. If Israel doesn't exist, everyone will go to hell). Israel actually have more support among the Christian Right, than they do among Israeli Jews.

These are the people that currently controls the worlds sole superpower. Freaking scary if you ask me.

[Edited 2004-11-24 16:59:53]
 
Guest

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:53 am

Screw the useless U.N. I am all for withdrawing. They are good for nothing.
 
CPH-R
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:00 am

Well, I didn't hear you bitch when the UN consistently kept up the trade embargo against Iraq, nor when UN sanctioned the first Gulf War.
 
OYRJA
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:03 am

Well, I didn't hear you bitch when the UN consistently kept up the trade embargo against Iraq, nor when UN sanctioned the first Gulf War.

He was probably never born at that time. That is why he don't know anything about those incidents Big grin
 
cfalk
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:04 am

As a Swiss living in Geneva, the "other" UN Headquarters, I would not mind seeing the UN leave Geneva as well. The people there don't pay taxes, drive like idiots and clog up the roads, and are on a personal level mostly idiots who knew which ass to lick back in their home country in order to get a cushy tax-free job with a great pension plan and few if any responsibilities.

I do believe that the world needs a U.N., but the one we have is completely corrupt and ineffective. It's time to clean it all out.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
TechRep
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:17 am

If you had to foot 25% of the UN budget and 33% of the peacekeeping budget you may think differently.

TechRep
 
srbmod
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:28 am

Considering the fact that the US is one of the key members of the UN, as well as one of the countries behind its' founding, we've never held any of the major leadership positions, in fact no North American has held the position of Secretary-General or President of the General Assembly. We give you the land for the UN complex, but other than our permanent member status in the Security Council, we get squat. The UN being based in NYC actually causes some problems. The biggest traffic ticket scofflaws in NYC are from UN member countries' ambassadors and staff, using "diplomatic immunity" as a way to get out of paying for the ticket(s). You know what building in NYC is the next terrorist target? The UN Building, not the Empire State Building, not the NYSE, not the Citibank building. The UN should consolidate all of their agencies and departments in Geneva, as historically, the city has played a role in world affairs and treaties.
 
cfalk
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:38 am

The UN should consolidate all of their agencies and departments in Geneva, as historically, the city has played a role in world affairs and treaties.

Oh God Please NOOOO!!!!

Don't send them here! Send them to sub-saharan Africa, or the Palestinian Territories, or some other messed up place. That way, they might actually have an incentive to DO something whenever they look out of their window.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
slider
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:42 am

MD-90s point is on target.

The concept of international cooperation and a body that can serve as a forum for joint cooperative efforts is a noble one.

But anyone who thinks the UN is that type of organization is intellectually dishonest. The UN is nothing more than a corrupt morally bankrupt debating club, that gives equal voice to terrorists and rogue Communist states as it does free states. Instead of pushing liberty, they push world socialism.

The UN has been a silent partner in watching mass murder many times over.

It's nothing more than a den of thieves that should be scrapped and start anew.

To paraphrase one historian, we might be able to be better friends among nations when we're not forced to be allies. It's an interesting and profound thought, actually.
 
OYRJA
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:44 am

The UN should consolidate all of their agencies and departments in Geneva, as historically, the city has played a role in world affairs and treaties.

Oh God Please NOOOO!!!!

What the hell.... We can take them up here in Basel Big grin We need more passengers to this airport  Big grin
 
Klaus
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:56 am

It´s downright bizarre to watch how the systematic anti-UN propaganda in the US has actually succeeded in putting distorted and even factually false ideas about the UN in many heads.

• The UN is a worldwide forum, not a government. And it serves this primary function relatively well.

• Wherever actual power is wielded under the UN banner, it is always member countries who provide the "muscle" and the formal power, not the UN administration! The european troops whose formation has just been decided will be the first thing remotely approaching an actual UN force (they are to be deployed abroad only under UN authorization).

• The UN administration, headed by the Secretary General, does indeed suffer from a lack of proper oversight in several cases. This must be fixed, together with structural changes to the UNSC and other bodies. You´d be shocked, however, if the UN suddenly vanished and all its organisations immediately ceased to do their work. Many of them have become fundamental tools for stability and peace in the world, their deficiencies notwithstanding. There simply doesn´t exist any conceivable replacement for the UN or its organisations.

• The UN administration does not have any power to decide anything. Again it´s the member nations, mostly in the form of the UNSC, who make the decisions you´re so loudly complaining about. And in most cases when "the UN" stood idly by and watched things go south it was actually one or more member nations in the UNSC who prevented action with their veto. Or all of them by witholding forces to do something about it. The UN Secretary General has no power on his own to make political decisions.


There is an obvious need for improvements to the UN in many areas. But that´s true for many parliaments, even many of those with actual power. Do you call for abolition of the Congress because of that? The House of Commons? The Bundestag?

Sorry, but such claims don´t make any sense.
 
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solnabo
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:35 am

The hawks / Bush are after Kofi Annan, no doubt about it:

Mr Annan are not for sale........period! They (WH staff & Fox News) are doing everything to backstabb him and this pi$$e$ me off!!!

US, get the --- out of UN, you are an embarresment to the rest of the world.

Micke/SE  Angry
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
TechRep
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:02 am

Solnabo,

You may get your wish and then Europe can finally defend itself and pay the bill.

TechRep
 
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solnabo
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:08 am

Yepp!

I wish United Nations moved to Geneva or Paris, but that´s my humble opinion.

The earth doesn´t spinn around US, you know.

Micke  Insane
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
TechRep
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:23 am

Solnabo,

Ahh Sweden Ikea, Abba, Saab and Volvo, yep that about does it.

TechRep
 
airplay
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:56 am

Ahh Sweden Ikea, Abba, Saab and Volvo, yep that about does it.

TechRep


If you are going to insult an entire country Techrep, at least do enough research to avoid embarassing yourself.

Sweden is quite an advanced industrialized country. Belittling Sweden and Swedes in this manner and in no particular context is just pathetic.
 
StarAC17
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:31 am

Screw the useless U.N. I am all for withdrawing. They are good for nothing.

No they just sometimes want what the US wants and they take the opinion of the other 94% of the world's population.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
solarix
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:50 pm

US, get the --- out of UN, you are an embarresment to the rest of the world.

Please explain to me how the US is an embarrassment to the rest of the world. We don't live in little shanty towns like much of the third world. Most third worlder’s want to come to the United States to work and support their families back home with the money earned here. I'd be willing to say 100% of the Europeans on this forum are using products which were produced in the United States (including you).

I'm very anxious to know why you think my country is so embarrassing to the rest of the world. Hell, you openly admit dumping your girlfriend in favor of Flight Simulator 2004 so you must know best. Let's hear it...

The earth doesn´t spinn around US, you know.

No shit Sherlock.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
solarix
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:07 pm

If you are going to insult an entire country Techrep, at least do enough research to avoid embarassing yourself.

You constantly insult my country Airplay, so what gives you the right to get all pissy over Techrep insulting Sweden?

So we are not allowed to insult any country unless it's the United States of America, right?????
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
Klaus
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Solarix

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:09 pm

The Bush administration is not identical with the United States of America.

Criticizing the former is (or at least can be) independent of criticism of the latter.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:47 pm

If you are going to insult an entire country Techrep, at least do enough research to avoid embarassing yourself.

Sweden is quite an advanced industrialized country. Belittling Sweden and Swedes in this manner and in no particular context is just pathetic.


And like YOU haven't been belittling the US!? What about Solnabo's less than itellectually sound "get the -- out of the UN, you are an embarrassment to the world!" comments?

And you Solnabo, are an embarrassment to the Human genepool...politics clearly isn't your forte, so go back to civ-av and stick to your traditional role of blind cheerleader for Airbus as that's all you're good for.  Yeah sure

Care to back up your "America is an embarrassment to the world" statement, or will you crawl back under your hole again!?

Screw the useless U.N. I am all for withdrawing. They are good for nothing.

You wanna back that up with some facts as well Mr. Bushcheney2004!? Or are you just stating what the Shrub told you to say. You know, Bush Sr. was the US ambassador to the UN...hope that doesn't blow your house of cards down.

The Bush administration is not identical with the United States of America.

Criticizing the former is (or at least can be) independent of criticism of the latter.


Hey, you know what's interesting!? I remember you calling most Americans dumb along with the rest of the handful of bitter partisans after the election. Believe it or not (and you probably don't as you're too busy bolding up every other word in your statements as if we were all hard of sight  Insane ) most Americans were faced with poor choices for President with little difference between them. I abstained for the Presidential ballot, instead opting for a Libertarian, while the rest thanked God for the 22nd Amendment and cast their ballot for only four more years of this bullshit as opposed to a potential eight years of it. If you think Kerry would have changed anything, you are sadly mistaken.

Agitator? Hey read the contents of the posts. I didn't start any movement to kick the UN out of the US. I merely made it clear that Canadians would recognize the value of having the UN. Just as Americans should.

By implying that New York isn't a "truly world class city"? Transparency Airplay, I know you too well...you're a carbon copy of many A.netters...trying to cover up an agenda when called into question.

Believe it or not Boeing4ever, we're on the same side here. The people who are behind this are idiots.

No, we are NOT on the same side. We only agree on one subject. I am not the friend of any of A.net's political agitators. I stand in full opposition to the constant political bitching, of which you are a part of.

As far as "agitators" go, you should really review this entire thread. You will quickly realize where the agitation is coming from....or just look in a mirror. In any event, try to calm down before you post again...

A taste of your own medicine...

And finally MD-90, interesting how you point out corruption in the UN. Should Washington D.C. be tossed out of the country on the same grounds? Perhaps every World Capitol should burn by your logic. The UN is a rusting machine, a good idea on paper but suffering from severe flaws in practice. But here's the thing Einstein, the US is capable, along with its EU allies, of making positive changes...

But since the EU and US prefer to act like stubborn morons, nothing will get accomplished...so it's no surprise that isolationist morons like "Move America Forward" are springing up.

Reform of the UN is truly needed, but what am I seeing here!? Morons on one side seeking to kick the US out of the UN, and other morons who seek the UN's dismantling. Please note, I'm only speaking of a minority on A.net...but it's a vocal one!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Boeing4ever

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:18 pm

Boeing4ever: Hey, you know what's interesting!? I remember you calling most Americans dumb along with the rest of the handful of bitter partisans after the election.

Interesting. Check that, please. You´re incorrect.

I´m rather critical of many americans letting themselves dupe into the Iraq war and even insulting others for their own mistakes. But as we´ve seen, it doesn´t look as if that could be applied to much more than 51% of the voting US population by now...


Boeing4ever: Believe it or not [...] most Americans were faced with poor choices for President with little difference between them.

Well, at least many americans (with you among them) were unable to recognize the obvious differences. Sad. Very sad.

Not being able to look beyond the superficial rethoric is a problematic weakness for a voter.


Boeing4ever: If you think Kerry would have changed anything, you are sadly mistaken.

Where have you been through the past months?  Insane
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:28 pm

Well, at least many americans (with you among them) were unable to recognize the obvious differences. Sad. Very sad.

Not being able to look beyond the superficial rethoric is a problematic weakness for a voter.


Interesting, interesting...how easily you let yourself be duped by one of the two political parties (nay, terrorist organizations) of the US. How sad you failed to see how both men represent the political status quo in the US and how you naturally assumed Kerry was the better candidate. Wake up to reality Klaus, the Shrub is no saint, and Kerry isn't either. Not being able to see the fact that all there is is superficial rhetoric, and that these two men are nothing more than the representatives of a vast array of greedy special interest groups is a problematic weakness among the sheep...

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Boeing4ever

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:43 pm

Boeing4ever: Interesting, interesting...how easily you let yourself be duped by one of the two political parties (nay, terrorist organizations) of the US. How sad you failed to see how both men represent the political status quo in the US and how you naturally assumed Kerry was the better candidate.

Not "naturally". The majority system in the USA realistically doesn´t allow for the introduction of new forces, so it was between Bush and Kerry. And it wasn´t difficult at that point. Kerry would have been the better president. For us, yes, but also for you, by a large margin.


Boeing4ever: Wake up to reality Klaus, the Shrub is no saint, and Kerry isn't either.

Sainthood is neither available nor required. There is a set of qualities the entire conglomerate of a (potential) government should possess. In most of these the advantage was clearly on Kerry´s side.


Boeing4ever: Not being able to see the fact that all there is is superficial rhetoric,

Nonsense! You´re just confirming here that you´re unable to see past it. That´s all.


Boeing4ever: and that these two men are nothing more than the representatives of a vast array of greedy special interest groups is a problematic weakness among the sheep...

See "sainthood". Your system is particularly vulnerable to special interest (especially of the money-donating kind), but there were still huge differences between Bush and Kerry.

What you´re basically claiming is that "there was no real difference between Clinton and Bush", since the same concept would have to be applied there. And it´s most certainly untrue.
 
Boeing4ever
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:55 pm

Not "naturally". The majority system in the USA realistically doesn´t allow for the introduction of new forces, so it was between Bush and Kerry. And it wasn´t difficult at that point. Kerry would have been the better president. For us, yes, but also for you, by a large margin.

Sainthood is neither available nor required. There is a set of qualities the entire conglomerate of a (potential) government should possess. In most of these the advantage was clearly on Kerry´s side.


How blind and sad you are. Kerry would have made few if any positive changes. Do you really believe all of the propaganda you've been fed!? How sad...you're no better than the hardcore Bush supporters.

Nonsense! You´re just confirming here that you´re unable to see past it. That´s all.

Bullshit! You're just blind to the facts and unwilling to accept that neither candidate was suitable for the job...and their actions before and leading up to the election proved it. Kerry, like Bush, is all talk...and you believed the talk.

See "sainthood". Your system is particularly vulnerable to special interest (especially of the money-donating kind), but there were still huge differences between Bush and Kerry.

Money knows no political boundaries. The only difference between Bush and Kerry are the special interests that would benefit from either win. Period.

What you´re basically claiming is that "there was no real difference between Clinton and Bush", since the same concept would have to be applied there. And it´s most certainly untrue.

Nope...the concept is quite true actually. Clinton may have had better vocabulary skills, but he too in essence...is a crook. And just because Europeans happen to like him better doesn't change the fact. And I'm not talking Monica-gate, but rather all the other little scandals pinned on Clinton...just like the scandals being pinned on the Shrub. They are guilty men, and only the special interests benefit from their entry into power. The average American is always screwed over.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Boeing4ever

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:28 pm

Boeing4ever: How blind and sad you are. Kerry would have made few if any positive changes. Do you really believe all of the propaganda you've been fed!? How sad...you're no better than the hardcore Bush supporters.

You don´t see the difference, so you´re aggressively fighting for everybody to go just as blind as you are? Sorry. no.

The primary problem with the Bush administration is a severe lack of judgment and a strong desire to paint everything in black and white. And from all appearances, you´re part of the same problem.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:26 pm

You don´t see the difference, so you´re aggressively fighting for everybody to go just as blind as you are? Sorry. no.

You believe the Democrats' propaganda machine...sorry, but you're no different than die-hard Bush-supporters now.

The primary problem with the Bush administration is a severe lack of judgment and a strong desire to paint everything in black and white. And from all appearances, you´re part of the same problem.

Ahem, false. Quite false. In fact, I realize that BOTH parties do exactly what Bush has done...made everything black and white (or Red and Blue if you will). Both parties use the same strategies and same tactics to win votes. I'm sorry to see that one of them managed to pull the wool over your eyes. The world ISN'T in black and white, but I wanted to elect a man who could see that fact, and neither Bush nor Kerry proved they could. Just swallow reality Klaus. There's a reason the race was so close...and don't give me the conspiracy theories that both parties have been spinning to explain away losses...

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:33 pm

I remember reading, that a very large percentage of americans believe the the Rapture (ie. Jesus Christ re-dux), which is why US politics wrt Israel is basically a hands-off one

You know, I read that too, and RJPieces insists its true as well.

I have never met a single non-Jewish American that believes in the Rapture. Not one. Ever.

N
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: The UN Out Of US - Some Repubs Would Like It

Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:49 pm

They're good for a few things. The UN isn't too bad at humanitarian efforts (unfortunately, they seem to be inept at "peacekeeping").


I have never met a single non-Jewish American that believes in the Rapture. Not one. Ever.

You've never met me, but I'm definately not Jewish and I believe that the Rapture will happen.

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