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EA CO AS
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Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:27 am

So much for the argument that rehab is less costly and more effective than incarceration for drug abusers.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/conditions/11/25/drug.rehab.cal.reut/index.html

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) -- A groundbreaking California program designed to get drug abusers the medical help they need and alleviate strain on the state's prison system faced challenges in its first six months, according to a new study.

Researchers from the University of California at Los Angeles looked at how drug abusers fared since the state's Substance Abuse and Crime Prevention Act took effect in July 2001. In 2000, voters backed a plan to send nonviolent drug offenders to rehab instead of prison. Supporters said it would be more effective and less expensive than incarceration.

The study to be published Friday found that offenders in rehabilitation were 48 percent more likely to be arrested for a drug offense within a year of starting rehab than drug users who were on parole or probation.

David Farabee, the study's lead author and a research scientist at UCLA, said he also "found that abusers with the most severe problems were unlikely to get treatment in a residential program."

A residential program is the most effective way to treat patients with the most severe drug problems, he said. Drug abusers sent to outpatient programs are more likely to be re-arrested, the study found.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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cedarjet
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:30 am

So what are you saying? Anyone who uses drugs should be locked up? Throw away the key? Maybe the chair? Ah well, I always preferred human kindness. But the prison authorities of California have shown me the error of my ways.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
avt007
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:36 am

Read the whole article, not just the quotes above. It gives a slightly different picture. It would be more interesting tosee the results after 1-2 years, which is a more realistic time frame for someone to deal with an addiction issue.
 
Klaus
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:21 am

Have they checked how many were indicted again for other reasons? Jail generally seems to increase the chances of becoming a criminal, even if you weren´t before...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:18 am

So what are you saying? Anyone who uses drugs should be locked up?

No, smartass. I was just saying, "Here's this news article. Read it if you'd like. Here's what it says."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:25 am

No, smartass. I was just saying, "Here's this news article. Read it if you'd like. Here's what it says."

If the following were not used to open this thread, I would be less inclined to view it as editorializing.

So much for the argument that rehab is less costly and more effective than incarceration for drug abusers.

Sorry EA CO AS. You can't have it both ways.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
UAL747
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:52 am

I went to Sierra Tucson for rehab back in the summer of 2002. I had a cocaine and alcohol addiction. While it was a good, safe environment, not to mention a beautiful facility with the latest in psychiatric care, it never prepared me to go back into the world. While I was at rehab, I "came out." It was a safe environment and part of my recovery, but they didn't prepare me to be "out" in the real world. I went back to Dallas, came out to my friends, and lost most of them. While I wasn't physically ousted from my fraternity, my friendships were lost and I didn't feel welcome. Got back into the same habits as before, tried suicide 3 times. You can have all the psychiatrist, psychologists, doctors, rehab, AA, NA, etc., but your decision to quit has to come from within. None of these institutions will help you unless you have a deep down desire to quit. Most people don't realize this until they reach what they call in the rehab world, "the bottom." My bottom was when I got drunk and left a bunch of candles on and burned down my apartment. I was lucky that someone was here with me to wake me up, otherwise, I might be dead right now.

UAL747
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EA CO AS
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:35 am

Sorry EA CO AS. You can't have it both ways.


Yes I can.  Big grin

Seriously though, I can see your point based on my initial post. However, wasn't what I'd written essentially the conclusion that the linked article was drawing anyway?

And that piece of halibut WAS good enough for Jehovah!  Big thumbs up
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:45 am

Granted- I have never been to a rehab clinic, I am not ignorant on what its about. Clinics are caring places that take people with open arms, they encourage people to get better. Prisons FORCE people to get better. Metaphorically speaking (cigarette smoking) clinics are like the patch, while prisons are like going cold turkey.
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:47 am

You can have all the psychiatrist, psychologists, doctors, rehab, AA, NA, etc., but your decision to quit has to come from within. None of these institutions will help you unless you have a deep down desire to quit.

Well said, UAL - and I'm glad you're still with us.  Smile
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:35 am

However, wasn't what I'd written essentially the conclusion that the linked article was drawing anyway?

I took a look at the posting on CNN and it goes into a bit more detail. First off, the study was conducted in the first six months of the program when counties were still trying to get the bugs worked out of the programs. Second, California has severe budget constraints which makes me wonder if the treatment offenders are receiving is up to scratch, and third this study tracked only 688 cases in 13 counties raising questions in my mind about the validity of this study.

That being said, addiction is a notoriously difficult disease to treat. The success rate hovers at around 30%, with the psychological aspects being the worst. Some, such as AA say a person has to reach the point where they "hit bottom," the point where they realize they are powerless before their addiction. There is also good evidence to suggest that getting someone into detox against their will can also be a help because if you can get them off the stuff long enough to realize things are actually better without it, then these programs have a better chance of working.

Charles, SJ

P.S. Nice to see there is another halabut lover out there  Big thumbs up
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
cedarjet
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:50 am

AA 61 Heavy: "Prisons FORCE people to get better." How?! By providing day and night access to all kinds of substances? Your comment about prisons making people go cold turkey is plain silly. You say you're not ignorant on the subject, but I would make a case that you are, based on that last statement. Prison is good for two things: scoring drugs and becoming a criminal.

UAL 747: If I may echo some of the above, I'm also glad you made it, buddy.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:57 am

Cedar- well in a perfect system there are no drugs in prisons. Now if you've been in jail, then you can speak from experience. And if you have been in jail-sucks for you.

Typically you cannot get an ounce of heroin or coke in prison, maybe its different in the UK, but I know in the US you cannot score drugs in prisons. At least the one my buddy was it.
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cedarjet
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:31 am

Actually I haven't been to prison either, I'm a law-abiding citizen. But I've visited friends in prison, and they all swear it's a drugs bonanza in there. In fact, one time I visited a guy and went to the prison with his girlfriend, and she passed a pretty hefty package to him mouth-to-mouth when they kissed (I found out much later). I must admit, if I was running a prison, I would want the inmates to be stoned. Apparently it is semi-official policy to allow the stuff in. Makes sense to me, they could probably stop it if they wanted to.

The UK legal establishment's fight against drugs has always been pretty halfhearted, nothing like in the US. I've been to quite a few clubs and bars in the US where the toilet stalls have had to have their doors removed to stop drug use. In most places in the UK they provide privacy and a nice ledge to chop em out. I honestly think it is only political pressure from Washington that keeps most drugs illegal here. As it is, you have to be dealing in heavy quantities (and not just puff) to go to jail. In the rest of Europe, it is even more lenient.

My own belief is that drugs are bad and I don't use any of them (anymore) including one of the worst: alcohol (no one ever beat the shit out of a stranger - or their wife - after a joint; too much like hard work man!). Their main role is a cure for boredom. The best antidote is education and mental stimulation. Rehab is mostly ineffective; and jail is horribly counterproductive.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
gigneil
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RE: Data Suggests Jail More Effective Than Rehab

Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:41 am


Typically you cannot get an ounce of heroin or coke in prison, maybe its different in the UK, but I know in the US you cannot score drugs in prisons.


Its almost 100% easier to get drugs in prison than it is on the street, ESPECIALLY in the United States.

Many non-users go into prison and come out hard-core addicts.

N

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