QANTAS077
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:30 pm

this i found to be very disturbing, in the 2nd World War the Nazi's used to force the Jews to play the violin whilst other Jews were being gassed. what were these idiots thinking??



Israel shocked by image of soldiers forcing violinist to play at roadblock

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Monday November 29, 2004
The Guardian

Of all the revelations that have rocked the Israeli army over the past week, perhaps none disturbed the public so much as the video footage of soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.

The incident was not as shocking as the recording of an Israeli officer pumping the body of a 13-year-old girl full of bullets and then saying he would have shot her even if she had been three years old.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St...1361755,00.html for the article in full.

[Edited 2004-11-30 08:31:58]
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:02 pm

Indeed horrible. The soldiers in question will be persecuted of course, but this is really shocking.
BTW, the link that you provided does not work.

In other news:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1362610,00.html

2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Russophile
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:00 pm

Will be persecuted? Surely you jest. You and I obviously didn't read the same article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1361552,00.html

While the officer responsible for killing Iman al-Hams has been charged with relatively minor offences, and the soldiers who forced the violinist to play were ticked off for being "insensitive", the only troops who were swiftly punished for violating regulations last week were some who posed naked in the snow for a photograph. They were dismissed from their unit.

 
ly7e7
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:44 pm

Russophile,

The above officer is under trial right now and he faces several years in prison (the counts of trial include illegal use of a weapon and several others that under the IDF penal code may cost him at least 7 years of freedom)
The soldiers in the violin case will face military tribunal.
Regarding the naked commandos "punishment" - they were dismissed from the army 2 months before they were supposed to do so.


TWISTEDWHISPER,

Clearly you see all of the Jews as some other members of this forum see all of the Arabs. You fail to distinguish between different people and speak of Jews and not of Israelis - thus your post is anti-semitic and racist and I suggested deletion.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:19 pm

Truly a crime against humanity, playing a violin. Disgusting!!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:27 pm

Truly a crime against humanity, playing a violin. Disgusting!!

You do know that you sound like JeffM now right?  Big grin

It might not be that bad to play violin. But that is unnecessery force used against the palestinian guy. Would you have liked it if someone was pointing a gun at you and told you to play the violin? Big grin
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:31 pm

It might not be that bad to play violin. But that is unnecessery force used against the palestinian guy.

Sad that the Palestinians MUST be searched for bombs as they want to move around. Truly a sad situation but they brought it on themselves. Hopefully as a new Palestinian leadership is elected, their security services can take over the job.....

Would you have liked it if someone was pointing a gun at you and told you to play the violin

No. I'd rather be eating at Sbarro when said guy blows himself up.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:36 pm

Sad that the Palestinians MUST be searched for bombs as they want to move around. Truly a sad situation but they brought it on themselves. Hopefully as a new Palestinian leadership is elected, their security services can take over the job.....

For fuck sake Rj.
This has nothing to do with bombs! This guy didn't even have a bomb. Where in the article did you see that? It's unbeliaveble that you actually accept this kind of behaviour.

I know some palestinans are some assholes. But not all of them. When will you get that? With your point of views on the palestinian people you probably never will.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:37 pm

Clearly you see all of the Jews as some other members of this forum see all of the Arabs. You fail to distinguish between different people and speak of Jews and not of Israelis - thus your post is anti-semitic and racist and I suggested deletion.

Well the boy needs to get out his jew hatred somehow. Welcome to the 21st Century.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:39 pm

Well the boy needs to get out his jew hatred somehow. Welcome to the 21st Century.

Do you know the guy?????? How the hell can you sit over in the US and tell us what he is thinking?? You are really pathetic. People like you are the reason that some palestinians don't like your ass.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:41 pm

This has nothing to do with bombs! This guy didn't even have a bomb. Where in the article did you see that? It's unbeliaveble that you actually accept this kind of behaviour.

Obviously this is the opinion of somebody who has NO CLUE what happened. WHY DO YOU THINK THE GUY WAS AT A CHECKPOINT BEING SEARCHED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Nowhere did I say the soldiers were right. However, you and others are making a huge deal over nothing. We're talking about an Israeli soldier "humiliating" a Palestinian. Is that the worst thing that goes on in the Middle East? Where is YOUR sense of outrage at the evildoing of a good part of the Arab world. Where's the outrage over homosexuals being arrested in Egypt?

I know some palestinans are some assholes. But not all of them. When will you get that? With your point of views on the palestinian people you probably never will.

Uh huh. I'd rather a hundred Palestinians have to wait in line to be searched for explosives then for one to sneak through and blow themselves up on a bus. Sometimes I forget that the reason you and others are against Israel's harsh anti-terrorism policy is probably because you realize it's working and stopping suicide bombings.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:49 pm

You do know that you sound like JeffM now right?

Sometimes, one has to be a little tongue-in-cheek, when guys like you are trying to make war criminals out of someone making someone play a violin, for Chrissake. I mean, listen to you! You make it sound like they put him against the wall and shot him in the nuts or something.

Maybe YOU should start sounding less like Indianguy, and not accuse someone who sees this for what it is-an anti-Jew witch hunt, and re-assess what YOUR beliefs are.

As Rjpieces says, no one is saying the soldiers are right, but this isn't really worth hauling these guys before the World Court is it? If you think it is, you have a few screws loose.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:53 pm

Nowhere did I say the soldiers were right. However, you and others are making a huge deal over nothing. We're talking about an Israeli soldier "humiliating" a Palestinian. Is that the worst thing that goes on in the Middle East? Where is YOUR sense of outrage at the evildoing of a good part of the Arab world. Where's the outrage over homosexuals being arrested in Egypt?

Uhhh. So I make a big deal out of nothing... I'll bet if it happened to a Jew you would be the first one writing about it.
And Yes I read what happened. He was searched. But that's all they should do. No reason for humiliate him.
But once again. You think it's ok because you are not better then them. And that is once again the reason for the Palestinian rage.

Do you know me personally?? No I don't think so. And thank god for that. I would be ashamed if I knew you. So you have no idea what pisses me off. I get pissed on the arabs that destroys it for the rest of their people. And if you took the time to read what I have been writing you would see my point of view.


Uh huh. I'd rather a hundred Palestinians have to wait in line to be searched for explosives then for one to sneak through and blow themselves up on a bus. Sometimes I forget that the reason you and others are against Israel's harsh anti-terrorism policy is probably because you realize it's working and stopping suicide bombings.

Once again.... I have nothing against the Israeli figting terrorism. That is a good thing. But for christ sake. They don't have to humiliate people!! Don't you get it or are you just that plain stupid??
And I hate those palestinians who blows them selves up. And once again: Not everybody does that. You just don't get it.


[Edited 2004-11-30 14:04:20]
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:00 pm

Perhaps he just likes listening to the violin playing. Perhaps the guy was a talented musician?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:01 pm

Maybe YOU should start sounding less like Indianguy, and not accuse someone who sees this for what it is-an anti-Jew witch hunt, and re-assess what YOUR beliefs are.

Hmmmm............. Indianguy. Who is he again?
No really. What I'm saying is there was no reason for them to humiliate him like that. If the guy didn't want to play. Nobody has to force him.
And things like this really pisses the palestinians off. There is no reason for this when they are in a new phase with new leaders and so on.

And no I'm not an anti Jew. I even write with Jews from Israel in here who at least have some sence and not spew all this shit out like RJ does.


Sometimes, one has to be a little tongue-in-cheek, when guys like you are trying to make war criminals out of someone making someone play a violin, for Chrissake. I mean, listen to you! You make it sound like they put him against the wall and shot him in the nuts or something.

Once again: Read what I wrote in the start of the post. I don't see them as war criminals. I see them as an obstruction to peace in the Middle East. And people like them are the reason the Palestinians don't like them.




[Edited 2004-11-30 14:04:02]
 
gkirk
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:13 pm

"I see them as an obstruction to peace in the Middle East. And people like them are the reason the Palestinians don't like them"

Now replace Palestinians with Israeli's  Big grin It's a circle of hatred  Insane
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:14 pm

I see them as an obstruction to peace in the Middle East.

The obstructions to peace are the Arabs carrying the bombs around their waists, not an Israeli making a guy play a freaking violin. Again, you need to reasses your views of what "obstruction" is. You sound like the Palestinians-looking for something to get pissed about. That's more of an obstruction than this.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:21 pm

The obstructions to peace are the Arabs carrying the bombs around their waists, not an Israeli making a guy play a freaking violin. Again, you need to reasses your views of what "obstruction" is. You sound like the Palestinians-looking for something to get pissed about. That's more of an obstruction than this.

Yes. They are a big part of the obstruction as well unfortunatly. And I have always said that.
But that doesn't give Israeli soldiers to do what they want does it? ´Both of them simply has to stop. Israel has to stop provokating the Palestinians and the Palestinians need to stop their damn suicide bombings.

You get my point now? Throwing dirt back doesn't do anybody any good.


Now replace Palestinians with Israeli's It's a circle of hatred

Damnit Kirkie. You know what I mean  Big grin
And yes. It is a circle of hatred unfortunatly. And I only hope that Sharon and the new Palestinian president is mature enough and puts an ending on all this.





[Edited 2004-11-30 14:23:44]
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Vio

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:42 pm

obviously some of you like RJ and Falcon are to stupid to see the signifigance of this terrible action, it's the exact same thing that the nazi's used to do to the Jews when they were being marched off to the gas chamber, hence the outrage from Israeli's. they used to make Jews play the violins at the checkpoints close to the gas chambers, these idiot soldiers showed total disrespect for the victims of the holocaust in there humiliation of this man, now you start to understand a little of why the Jews are not well liked.

that's not a swipe at all Jewish people, but those actions don't set a positive example in a already deadly situation.

the obstacle to peace is in your opinion the person with a bomb around his waist, unfortunately thats a one sided view, if you ask an arab they will tell you it's the illegal settlements. your POV is worthless, you've not lost your land, nor been the victim of a suicide bombing, nor do you live in the region, so you can't appreciate what the situation is really like on the ground, your talking from what your tit fed from the media.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:55 pm

RJ,
What do you think about the pumping of bullets into the 13 year old? And the other situation with the corpses? I'd love to hear your views.

Sad that the Palestinians MUST be searched for bombs as they want to move around. Truly a sad situation but they brought it on themselves. Hopefully as a new Palestinian leadership is elected, their security services can take over the job.....

RJ, unless a new revelation has been made that the better music you play the more are the chances of you blow yourself up, go shove that statement up your ass.

No. I'd rather be eating at Sbarro when said guy blows himself up.

When said guy blows himself up? Care to give us a translation?

Obviously this is the opinion of somebody who has NO CLUE what happened. WHY DO YOU THINK THE GUY WAS AT A CHECKPOINT BEING SEARCHED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

BECAUSE ISRAEL LOVES TO MAKE PALESTINIAN LIFE HELL IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

We're talking about an Israeli soldier "humiliating" a Palestinian.

Which has happened hundreds of times already, except its usually not publicised.

Is that the worst thing that goes on in the Middle East?

Well the other thing is being done by YOUR countrymen.

Where is YOUR sense of outrage at the evildoing of a good part of the Arab world. Where's the outrage over homosexuals being arrested in Egypt?

Lets use a quote you guys love to use. "Dont like it, move to Russia." This is being done by the EGYPTIAN gov't to the EGYPTIAN people in their country, on their land. This, on the other hand is being done by ISRAELI soldiers to PALESTINIAN people on PALESTINIAN land. See the difference?

Uh huh. I'd rather a hundred Palestinians have to wait in line to be searched for explosives then for one to sneak through and blow themselves up on a bus.

And this sort of thing motivates those hundred Palestinians to hate Israel.

Sometimes I forget that the reason you and others are against Israel's harsh anti-terrorism policy is probably because you realize it's working and stopping suicide bombings.

Excuse me? Tell me how the event above helps stop this then.

Falcon,
As Rjpieces says, no one is saying the soldiers are right, but this isn't really worth hauling these guys before the World Court is it? If you think it is, you have a few screws loose.

I think its disgusting, but it should definatley not be treated with more attention than the other two crimes, and many others like them. But, what I found disgusting was that it was the same thing that the Nazis did when they were exterminating the Jews...

The obstructions to peace are the Arabs carrying the bombs around their waists, not an Israeli making a guy play a freaking violin.

Falcon, how long haven't there been any suicide bombings? And don't you think, maybe, JUST maybe, the wrecking of homes, landgrabbing, killing of civilians, checkpoints everywhere, humiliation, and the sort of shit that examples were givin of in the article might have something to do with it? What about the illegal settlements, which are on Palestinian land and result in checkpoints every five freaking meters? Dont give me this shit about suicide bombers, this has been going on for over 20 years. Or maybe, the Palestinians dont particuallarly like this fun thing they call "occupation", which, along with it, comes oppression. Typical American response, where you see one side but completley ignore the other.

You sound like the Palestinians-looking for something to get pissed about.

Looking for something to get pissed of about? I wish you could be the resident of Gaza for just one week, then i'll see what will come instead of that response. 1,700 dead civilians, and within them 565 children isnt a reason to get pissed off? Landgrabbing? Destruction of homes? etc?

OYRJA,
And yes. It is a circle of hatred unfortunatly. And I only hope that Sharon and the new Palestinian president is mature enough and puts an ending on all this.

As in Ariel Sharon? The same man with enough Arab blood on his hands to fill an ocean? All I can say is that I hope he isnt lucky enough to die like Arafat did, but instead like one of his victims.

Qantas,
the obstacle to peace is in your opinion the person with a bomb around his waist, unfortunately thats a one sided view, if you ask an arab they will tell you it's the illegal settlements. your POV is worthless, you've not lost your land, nor been the victim of a suicide bombing, nor do you live in the region, so you can't appreciate what the situation is really like on the ground, your talking from what your tit fed from the media.

RJ, who is self appointed American spokesman for Israel, seems to think he can understand us (the Palestinians) and can tell us the whole problem. Then dear old Falcon seems to think that the whole problem is because of a group of suicide bombers, and seems to think that poor Israel does nothing at all. No brainwashing, eh?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:31 pm

obviously some of you like RJ and Falcon are to stupid to see the signifigance of this terrible action...

SIGNIFICANCE? Hello! The guy was made to play a violin! We don't hear jack from the Arab world, the Palestinians and their hangers on on this board and around the world whenever there's a suicide bombing or attack, and you want me to admit this is SIGNIFICANT? ROTFL. I'm not as gullible as you are, I guess.

SIGNIFICANT is when a 5-year old is shot and killed by the IDF, or when another Palestinian goes In Search of 72 virgins, by blowing themselves and as many Jews as they can to Kingdom Come. This isn't SIGNIFICANT. This is those who excuse Palestinian behaivor making a moutain out of a molehill.

God, this is unbelievable.

..but those actions don't set a positive example in a already deadly situation.

Boo hoo. It is NOTHING.

Falcon, how long haven't there been any suicide bombings? And don't you think, maybe, JUST maybe, the wrecking of homes, landgrabbing, killing of civilians, checkpoints everywhere, humiliation, and the sort of shit that examples were givin of in the article might have something to do with it?

You can try to justify terrorism all you want. I don't buy it. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. And, to me, that's more disgusting than the act itself.

Again, nary a peep when someone is blown up, but the protesting and screaming over this even is just mind-boggling. It shows how beholden some people are to a group of people who use terror and death as their statement for existence.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:49 pm

Falcon,
SIGNIFICANCE? Hello! The guy was made to play a violin! We don't hear jack from the Arab world, the Palestinians and their hangers on on this board and around the world whenever there's a suicide bombing or attack, and you want me to admit this is SIGNIFICANT? ROTFL. I'm not as gullible as you are, I guess.

And we dont hear jack from you Americans or Israel when there is an operation in which Palestinian civlians are killed in high numbers and illegal things such as the destruction of houses takes place. Why is this? If, after the kind of treatment Palestinians get you expect them to go apologise and start fund raisers by selling cookies, you are a very naive person.

SIGNIFICANT is when a 5-year old is shot and killed by the IDF, or when another Palestinian goes In Search of 72 virgins, by blowing themselves and as many Jews as they can to Kingdom Come. This isn't SIGNIFICANT. This is those who excuse Palestinian behaivor making a moutain out of a molehill.

So you think those Palestinians are just out there to find there 72 virgins? Justifying the reason and saying it is correct is very different from understanding it, but so long as the same shit goes on and you guys dont even say a peep, dont expect us to give you any apologies.

You can try to justify terrorism all you want. I don't buy it. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. And, to me, that's more disgusting than the act itself.

And you can also justify Israel's terrorism all you want. I am not justifying it by explaining why it goes on. If an explenation is more disgusting to you than the act itself I am sorry you misunderstood me.

Again, nary a peep when someone is blown up, but the protesting and screaming over this even is just mind-boggling. It shows how beholden some people are to a group of people who use terror and death as their statement for existence.

So where is freedom loving, rights promoting Americas voice of anger when Israel commits something? You haven't even said a peep about the death of the 13 year old girl, do you consider her inferior to you and see no need to apologise? Cut the crap Falcon, it goes both ways, when you dont do shit for us and dont care when something happens to us, dont expect us to care when something happens to you or for us to apologise to you. Wake up, get out of the little fantasy world you live in, and maybe then you will understand the motives of people better. Also, do you really think we will apologise to the people who have forced us to resort to such things?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:08 am

"...it's the exact same thing that the nazi's used to do to the Jews when they were being marched off to the gas chamber,..."

Holy shit...I didn't see that in the article. How long have the Israelis been marching Palestininans off to the gas chamber? Jesus, how long of a walk is it?

Seriously its a violin, and I don't even know where to start with QR332's post.

84 is right on this one.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:13 am

"...when you dont do shit for us and dont care when something happens to us, dont expect us to care when something happens to you or for us to apologise to you. Wake up, get out of the little fantasy world you live in, and maybe then you will understand the motives of people better. Also, do you really think we will apologise to the people who have forced us to resort to such things?"

So wait...you are Palestinian...and you kill people? Because you sure use "us" alot.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:19 am

84 is right on this one

Why is that? Because he think it's ok for anyone to threat another person with a gun and forcing him to play the violin??
Riiight... And that comes from one of the biggest anti gun people on this board.


 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:40 am

And we dont hear jack from you Americans or Israel when there is an operation in which Palestinian civlians are killed in high numbers and illegal things such as the destruction of houses takes place.

Then you have selective memory, because such things have been condemened on this board more than once. But we never hear a peep of how horrible it, from some who sympathize with the terrorists, when they blow someone up or a bus.

So you think those Palestinians are just out there to find there 72 virgins?

You need to learn sarcasm. But yes, some of them actually believe that crap, and you know they do. It's a sad commentary on the Arab world when young people are being fed this garbage by a few hate-filled control freaks, who themselves have no desire to die for anything.

Also, do you really think we will apologise to the people who have forced us to resort to such things?

Yes, damn it, I do!! Maybe if your people started to apologize for suicide bombers who blow up women, children, teenagers-anyone-with themselves, maybe peace might have a chance. Maybe if YOU apologized for the 50 years of war you've waged against these people, you might get an apology for actions by Israeli's that are intolerable and disgusting. But your mindset just continues the cycle of violence. By your statement, you justify terrorism, and that disgusts me.

Maybe you people-Jew and Arab alike, need to start doing some soul searching, instead of playing chicken on seeing who will blink first. Be a man, and maybe lead the way to a new era, instead of justifying the old era.

Maybe if you do apologize, and then the Israeli's do, a lot of people won't have to die. Did THAT ever cross your mind.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:44 am

Then you have selective memory, because such things have been condemened on this board more than once. But we never hear a peep of how horrible it, from some who sympathize with the terrorists, when they blow someone up or a bus.

I have to agree with Falcon here. We actually never hear any condemnations from some of the members in here when it happens. I have noticed it my self several times.

Maybe you people-Jew and Arab alike, need to start doing some soul searching, instead of playing chicken on seeing who will blink first. Be a man, and maybe lead the way to a new era, instead of justifying the old era.

Maybe if you do apologize, and then the Israeli's do, a lot of people won't have to die. Did THAT ever cross your mind.


Exactly the same thing I wrote earlier. But for some reason people didn't notice that.


 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 am

From the story:
"The violinist, Wissam Tayem, was on his way to a music lesson near Nablus when he said an Israeli officer ordered him to "play something sad" while soldiers made fun of him. After several minutes, he was told he could pass.

It may be that the soldiers wanted Mr Tayem to prove he was indeed a musician walking to a lesson because, as a man under 30, he would not normally have been permitted through the checkpoint."

Now I haven't seen the video so if I am wrong let me know...but I don't see where 84 said it was ok to put a gun in someones face, nor do I see in the article where a gun was put in Mr. Tayem's face.

Additionally, please note the circumstances in which it happened.

And the uproar among the Jewish community is because they believe this belittled the Holocaust, not because they believe it demeaned the Palestinian.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:47 am

Because he think it's ok for anyone to threat another person with a gun and forcing him to play the violin??

Wow, you seem to have an issue getting over the violin part. The person was trying to get through a military checkpoint with a violin case (that could have been a bomb) and was presumably told to play his violin after he had taken it out. Are you really THAT upset over this whole incident?

Uhhh. So I make a big deal out of nothing... I'll bet if it happened to a Jew you would be the first one writing about it.
And Yes I read what happened. He was searched. But that's all they should do. No reason for humiliate him.
But once again. You think it's ok because you are not better then them. And that is once again the reason for the Palestinian rage.


Get it through your head, friend. Falcon and I are NOT SAYING that the soldiers should have humiliated him; We are saying that you are OVERREACTING.

I get pissed on the arabs that destroys it for the rest of their people. And if you took the time to read what I have been writing you would see my point of view.

Uh huh. QR and BA also "get pissed" at the rest of the Arabs. Yet they constantly attack Israel rather than deal with their own people. You are no different, from your posts anyway.

Once again.... I have nothing against the Israeli figting terrorism. That is a good thing. But for christ sake. They don't have to humiliate people!! Don't you get it or are you just that plain stupid??
And I hate those palestinians who blows them selves up. And once again: Not everybody does that. You just don't get it.


Of course they don't have to/shouldn't humiliate people and it is NOT common practice. But those checkpoints are 110% necessary and will not be going anywhere until the Palestinians get their act together.

No really. What I'm saying is there was no reason for them to humiliate him like that. If the guy didn't want to play. Nobody has to force him.

He wasn't physically forced to play. He could have turned around for all he liked.

I see them as an obstruction to peace in the Middle East. And people like them are the reason the Palestinians don't like them.

Frankly, trying to find moral equivicancy between IDF soldiers and Arab terrorists is akin to appeasing terror. THERE IS NO MORAL EQUIVICANCY. Trying to establish one just sets back the Arab world because you are sending them the wrong message.

Israel has to stop provokating the Palestinians and the Palestinians need to stop their damn suicide bombings.

Israel could either sit and do nothing, or fight back, or in this case a soldier could force a Palestinian to play a violin, and the suicide bombings would keep coming no matter what. Like I said, no equivicancy.

obviously some of you like RJ and Falcon are to stupid to see the signifigance of this terrible action, it's the exact same thing that the nazi's used to do to the Jews when they were being marched off to the gas chamber, hence the outrage from Israeli's. they used to make Jews play the violins at the checkpoints close to the gas chambers, these idiot soldiers showed total disrespect for the victims of the holocaust in there humiliation of this man,

HA. So in addition to Palestinian humilitian, this is also Holocaust humiliation? Get a grip.

now you start to understand a little of why the Jews are not well liked.

Uh huh. Jews have NEVER, NEVER been liked dear.

the obstacle to peace is in your opinion the person with a bomb around his waist, unfortunately thats a one sided view, if you ask an arab they will tell you it's the illegal settlements. your POV is worthless, you've not lost your land, nor been the victim of a suicide bombing, nor do you live in the region, so you can't appreciate what the situation is really like on the ground, your talking from what your tit fed from the media.

With all due respect, it is incredibly easy for you to accuse us of being fed from the media, but where the hell do you get your crap from? Media is media. They are all biased in one way or the other. Don't play the superior card with us.

What do you think about the pumping of bullets into the 13 year old? And the other situation with the corpses? I'd love to hear your views.

Of course that was horrible and they will be punished for their actions.

RJ, unless a new revelation has been made that the better music you play the more are the chances of you blow yourself up, go shove that statement up your ass.

QR, you know as well as I do that Palestinians like to blow themselves up in Israel. Restricting Palestinian movement and searching them has helped cut down on the number of suicide bombings. I know how much that pains you but get over it.

When said guy blows himself up? Care to give us a translation?

LOL. No need to translate; the sentence was perfectly clear. Perhaps ask BA or somebody else to explain what it meant.

BECAUSE ISRAEL LOVES TO MAKE PALESTINIAN LIFE HELL IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

Tell me the truth QR. Do you really think that Israel goes through all of this trouble just to make life hard for Palestinians?

Lets use a quote you guys love to use. "Dont like it, move to Russia." This is being done by the EGYPTIAN gov't to the EGYPTIAN people in their country, on their land. This, on the other hand is being done by ISRAELI soldiers to PALESTINIAN people on PALESTINIAN land. See the difference?

NO. Quite frankly, it is SCREWED UP that you care more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than you do about rights in your own country. It is quite weird that BA cares more about the Israeli occupation than about the Syrian occupation of Lebanon. If Arabs cared less about Israel, and more about improving their own societies, your corner of the earth wouldn't be the hot bed of war that it is today.

And this sort of thing motivates those hundred Palestinians to hate Israel.

They hated it before and they'll hate it after. You can't not act in response to terror because you are afraid of pissing more people off. Obviously, if you HAVE to respond to terror, they already hate you.

Excuse me? Tell me how the event above helps stop this then.

Are you serious? Palestinians used to be able to move freely and could walk right into Israel before boarding a bus and blowing themselves up. Now they have to go through checkpoints to get around the West Bank and even if they do slip past those, there is a big security fence stopping them from entering Israel. Why do you think there haven't been that many suicide bombings in the past few months?


But, what I found disgusting was that it was the same thing that the Nazis did when they were exterminating the Jews...

With all due respect QR, on previous occasions you have said that you would have supported the destruction of Israel in 1967, which basically means that a few million Jews would have been slaughtered, another Holocaust......

in Ariel Sharon? The same man with enough Arab blood on his hands to fill an ocean? All I can say is that I hope he isnt lucky enough to die like Arafat did, but instead like one of his victims.

Don't worry. I'm sure Ariel Sharon isn't too busy having affairs with teenage boys and contracting HIV.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:53 am

"I'm sure Ariel Sharon isn't too busy having affairs with teenage boys and contracting HIV."

EW.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:55 am

EW.

Heh. It is quite the scary thought.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:04 am

Wow, you seem to have an issue getting over the violin part. The person was trying to get through a military checkpoint with a violin case (that could have been a bomb) and was presumably told to play his violin after he had taken it out. Are you really THAT upset over this whole incident?

Yes... I'm really upset about this incident. But I shouldn't be. None of us knows the real story since none of us was there.
And you have to stop being so damn defensive of the Israelis all the time. They are no saints as you think. Even some Israelis I know say the same thing.

And I appologize Falcon for being rude and not getting the facts straight. I misread it.
I read it as he was haveing a gun pointed at him.
 
OYRJA
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:05 am

"I'm sure Ariel Sharon isn't too busy having affairs with teenage boys and contracting HIV."

Do you have any proofs on this? Or is it just fantasy again?
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:11 am

I think he is referring to someone else.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:20 am

I think the uproar here is more based on the Israeli armys edict to be perceived as taking the high road. Certainly the humiliation of being forced to play a violin at gunpoint is not the worst thing that has happened in this part of the world, but the association with the Nazi actions to Jewish violinists during the holocaust has cast a sort of "we are no better than they are" pallor over Israeli army behavior. Whether they do take the high road or not (I'll not get into that subject, being far from an expert, and far away in America), it seems to me as though the state of Israel relies on being perceived as the victim rather than the aggressor.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:24 am

Certainly the humiliation of being forced to play a violin at gunpoint..

Well, he brought the violin case to a military checkpoint, and that's why he was at gunpoint. It's not like he was accosted on the street for no reason. I have no problem with them proving it was a violin, and not a suicide bomb.

And the comparison of this to what the Nazi's did, is simply ludicrous. It's really blowing this out of proportion, which is the problem in the first place.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:26 am

I think it's only a war crime if they force you to play the accordion.

(Lighten up folks !  Smile )
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:22 am

Falcon: I too see this as being totally blown out of proportion; however, I was trying to offer what I think the Israeli people and possibly Jewish people worldwide are feeling about this. Not being Jewish, perhaps mine is a worthless point of view, but as traditional and nationalistic as are most Jewish people I know, it is simple for me to see the significance they put on an act that was apparently performed by the Nazis. Is it equivalent? Probably not, in my mind. Is it significant? Almost certainly in the minds of a people who have been through much torture and who place a premium on arts and science, and, perhaps most importantly in a political arena, perception.

BTW, JGPH1A: best post on the thread! However, it's probably worse to have to listen to it than to play it.

[Edited 2004-11-30 18:23:38]
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
CedarWings
Posts: 195
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:29 am

Wissam Tayem Today:



Wladyslaw Szpilman Yesterday: (The Pianist)



History never keeps repeating itself.

[Edited 2004-11-30 18:44:12]
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:31 am

Logan please take note. As far as we know a gun was not pointed at him in an effort to make him play the violin.

Also, the Jews are pissed not because it is similar to what the Nazi's did, rather because to them it belittles what happened in the Holocaust.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:50 am

The most disturbing thing is that the Israeli right wing was more incensed at this violin incident than it was at images of a 13 year old child being pumped full of bullets by a mad man.

I guess Hamas and its bomb strapping fanatics are equally matched by the hate-filled Israeli hooligans like this guy.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:54 am

Jamesag96,
So wait...you are Palestinian...and you kill people? Because you sure use "us" alot.

Nice smartass comment there. How about answering to something relevant to the post? And "us" refers to the Palestinian people.

Falcon,
Then you have selective memory, because such things have been condemened on this board more than once. But we never hear a peep of how horrible it, from some who sympathize with the terrorists, when they blow someone up or a bus.

Search the archives, Falcon, then talk about selective memory. Call me a sympathiser, I dont give. And yes, they have been condemned, but not by you or your buddy RJ. I still dont see you condeming the murder of 13 year old.

You need to learn sarcasm. But yes, some of them actually believe that crap, and you know they do. It's a sad commentary on the Arab world when young people are being fed this garbage by a few hate-filled control freaks, who themselves have no desire to die for anything.

And you need to get more educated in these manners. Igonarance is bliss..

So tell me, would they believe this stuff if they werent desperate? Again, would they resort to such things if it wasnt for Israels cruelty?

Yes, damn it, I do!! Maybe if your people started to apologize for suicide bombers who blow up women, children, teenagers-anyone-with themselves, maybe peace might have a chance.

Give me one good reason why we should apologise to the same people who stuck these people in refugee camps, and who continue to kill our children every day? It is the same to us as it is to you guys apologising to the crew of Mos'ab al Zarqawi or the Fallujah insurgents. These people are the ones killing us and denying us a normal life, why the hell should we start saying sorry if these things wouldn't have happened in the first place if it wasn't for Israel?

if YOU apologized for the 50 years of war you've waged against these people, you might get an apology for actions by Israeli's that are intolerable and disgusting.

Very easy to make a comment like that. We have waged war, eh? Who was it that took our land in 1948? who was it that immigrated to our homeland? And who is it that commited countless acts of violence against Arabs since pre-48, and still continues to go on the track of violence? And why do you conveniantly foget those refugees who have lost their identity and land because of those you defend so much. Consider the other side Falcon.

you might get an apology for actions by Israeli's that are intolerable and disgusting. But your mindset just continues the cycle of violence.

A cycle involves more than one factor. One is us. The other is them.

By your statement, you justify terrorism, and that disgusts me.

Oh yes, the good old "if your not with us your against us" psychology. Isn't this something that came from the person you do not support, GWB? Surprised to see such an open minded liberal say this.

Maybe you people-Jew and Arab alike, need to start doing some soul searching, instead of playing chicken on seeing who will blink first. Be a man, and maybe lead the way to a new era, instead of justifying the old era.

My friend, of all people, dont give Palestinians classes on how to be men. The world's most obese nation where the average 15 year old is too busy getting pissed out of his mind should not compare manhood with the 15 year olds of Palestine who are living in a war torn country, and are experiencing things you will never even witness.

Maybe if you do apologize, and then the Israeli's do, a lot of people won't have to die. Did THAT ever cross your mind.

That has crossed my mind, but it is not that simple. You do not apologise to someone who has harmed you so much just like that, Falcon.

OYRJA,
I have to agree with Falcon here. We actually never hear any condemnations from some of the members in here when it happens. I have noticed it my self several times.

You really want to know why I dont condemn this, especially on these boards? All you people with 100% perfect memory, search it and think about how many "nuke the bastards", "turn it into one big glass factory", "lets turn the West Bank into a resort" sorta threads came up. Nobody apologised to us then. On the other hand. When Israel does anything, nobody cares. Is this fair?

Rjpieces,
Uh huh. QR and BA also "get pissed" at the rest of the Arabs. Yet they constantly attack Israel rather than deal with their own people. You are no different, from your posts anyway.

No I dont. I never said I do. I said I dont support these actions, but that does mean I get pissed with the Arabs.

and it is NOT common practice.

With that statement, you prove, like time and time again, how much of an idiot you are.

But those checkpoints are 110% necessary and will not be going anywhere until the Palestinians get their act together.

Wake up. They've been there since before Oslo.

He wasn't physically forced to play. He could have turned around for all he liked.

And the IDF would have done nothing, right?

THERE IS NO MORAL EQUIVICANCY.

Your right. The Arab freedom fighters are on a much higher level.

and the suicide bombings would keep coming no matter what.

BS and you know it. The suicide bombings happen for a reason.

With all due respect, it is incredibly easy for you to accuse us of being fed from the media, but where the hell do you get your crap from? Media is media. They are all biased in one way or the other. Don't play the superior card with us.

The 96% of the world that does not live in the US seems to agree that the US media has a bias like no other place though. I have friends living in the US and my parents have visited the US several times, they even used to live there, so I am informed about the US media.

Of course that was horrible and they will be punished for their actions.

I'm surprsied you haven't accused her of being a potential suicide bomber.

QR, you know as well as I do that Palestinians like to blow themselves up in Israel. Restricting Palestinian movement and searching them has helped cut down on the number of suicide bombings. I know how much that pains you but get over it.

What pains me is seeing Israelis getting away with crimes (not the violin, the other events). Do you talk out of your ass, RJ? I am not talking about the checkpoints, I am talking about the forcing of the guy to play the violin.

LOL. No need to translate; the sentence was perfectly clear. Perhaps ask BA or somebody else to explain what it meant.

And here I was thinking the first language of America was English...

Tell me the truth QR. Do you really think that Israel goes through all of this trouble just to make life hard for Palestinians?

I'll answer it by asking you a question. Do you think their going through all of this, and have been doing so since God knows when, just to improve the security of their people?

it is SCREWED UP that you care more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than you do about rights in your own country

Unfortunatley, I am not Egyptian. And homosexual rights are not exactly what we need to care about in the Mideast right now. On the other hand, I am PALESTINIAN. Now, this is the Israeli-PALESTINIAN conflict. Do you want to work it out, or do you want me to spell it out? Do you think I will care more about gay rights in Egypt, when I am not Egyptian, or the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, when it concerns me much more? Also, you want to talk about rights in the West Bank?! Dont get me started, your Israeli buddies are doing a great job at supressing them.

It is quite weird that BA cares more about the Israeli occupation than about the Syrian occupation of Lebanon.

So? I dunno what it is with you and getting at BA today, but considering he is part Palestinian, his interest in the matter is understandable. Also, the conflict is much more important than Syrian troops in Lebanon, the country is a very stable one with rights for all, while Palestine is raveged by war and is occupied.

If Arabs cared less about Israel, and more about improving their own societies, your corner of the earth wouldn't be the hot bed of war that it is today.

The hot bed of war? Fantasy land again. On last count we had, hmmm, 1, 2... yes, TWO wars! now, the first has been going on for 56 years, the second started last year. I can't remember the reason, but WMDs rings a bell...

In other words, there is one war which has been going on for a long time, and the other for one year and was started by your country men for no apparent reason. If your such an expert on Arab societies and how they are developing, haul your ass over here, take a look at them, then tell me this bullshit. But until you do that, don't teach a person actually living in the Arab world this crap.

They hated it before and they'll hate it after. You can't not act in response to terror because you are afraid of pissing more people off. Obviously, if you HAVE to respond to terror, they already hate you

They will continue to hate you. As long as Israel keeps up what its doing, the hatred won't go away. When these checkpoints were set up, they were not responding to terror, they were to protect the illegal settlements from angry people who had their land stolen from them so some immigrant can live there. I dunno about you, but any other person might get a bit ticked of with that. These checkpoints are not a spawn of the suicide bombings as you like to say.

Palestinians used to be able to move freely and could walk right into Israel before boarding a bus and blowing themselves up.

Did they? Thanks for informing me. Last I knew they could not even enter Jerusalem without a VIP pass or if they werent residents of the city, they weren't able to enter Israel without a huge hassle, and they were still treated like dirt. Israel has always been inconsiderate to the Palestinians, long before the first bus was blown up.

Why do you think there haven't been that many suicide bombings in the past few months?

Doesnt take a genius to figure that one out. Your point?

With all due respect QR, on previous occasions you have said that you would have supported the destruction of Israel in 1967, which basically means that a few million Jews would have been slaughtered, another Holocaust......

Let me get this straight. I said I would have supported it prior to 1967, because these people took MY country, and this means I want to see a few million Jews slaughtered? So tell me RJ, if Arabs invaded big areas of America today and created a state in the place of the West Coast, you would not want its destruction? Please show me where I supported "another Holocaust".

Don't worry. I'm sure Ariel Sharon isn't too busy having affairs with teenage boys and contracting HIV.

I love people who believe everything they read in chain emails.

The most disturbing thing is that the Israeli right wing was more incensed at this violin incident than it was at images of a 13 year old child being pumped full of bullets by a mad man.

Thank you God. Someone finally sees what people can't grasp.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:58 am

Jamesag96: Thanks for the correction. I was guilty of reading the posts more closely than the story itself. As for actions on both sides of this conflict, it seems that each side is always proclaiming that it is merely retaliating for something the other side has done. As long as that mentality continues, neither side is safe, nor moral.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
peterpuck
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:59 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:16 am

Too bad the international community can't simply seize all Israeli and Palestinian lands. Then create a new country called Isrealistine with an internationally administered government that is banned from forming any policy which is based on religion. Rules would apply equally to Jews, Christians, and Islam. Pull down all fences and force people to get along.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:58 am

Too bad the international community can't simply seize all Israeli and Palestinian lands. Then create a new country called Isrealistine with an internationally administered government that is banned from forming any policy which is based on religion. Rules would apply equally to Jews, Christians, and Islam. Pull down all fences and force people to get along.

They tried to do something similar in 1948. The Arabs rejected it. Instead we wound up with ONE country where rules and law apply equally to Jews, Christians, and Islam. There is no other country in the Middle East with as much religious freedom as Israel. You don't see many Jews walking around the streets of Cairo or Beirut.

No I dont. I never said I do. I said I dont support these actions, but that does mean I get pissed with the Arabs.

That's funny. You never seem to show ANY hostility towards the Arab regimes that have kept your people in refugee camps for 56 years, feeding you propaganda and so on.

And the IDF would have done nothing, right?

Umm, no. If he hadn't tried to go through a checkpoint, the whole thing wouldn't have happened. He was free not to attempt it.

Your right. The Arab freedom fighters are on a much higher level.

LOL. With statements like this, you wonder why Falcon and I and others view you as part of the problem. You are more or less condoning suicide bombing with this statement; Next time you wonder why Americans don't have sympathy for you, think about comments like these.

BS and you know it. The suicide bombings happen for a reason.

Sorry dear, even if a seperate Palestinian state existed, there would still be a huge load of militants wanting to attack Israel--A fence is the only longterm solution to stop suicide bombing.

The 96% of the world that does not live in the US seems to agree that the US media has a bias like no other place though. I have friends living in the US and my parents have visited the US several times, they even used to live there, so I am informed about the US media.

Please QR. As I said above, what media is balanced? Your media is just as biased in the other direction so spare me your crap.

And here I was thinking the first language of America was English...

LOL. You still can't read it QR? I'll spell it out again.

Somebody said: Would you have liked it if someone was pointing a gun at you and told you to play the violin

I responded with: No. I'd rather be eating at Sbarro when said guy blows himself up.

Get it now?

I'll answer it by asking you a question. Do you think their going through all of this, and have been doing so since God knows when, just to improve the security of their people?

YES! Are you joking? Why else would Israel spend a load of money and lower the morale of their military? I can't believe that you really think Israel does it for sh*ts and giggles.

Unfortunatley, I am not Egyptian. And homosexual rights are not exactly what we need to care about in the Mideast right now. On the other hand, I am PALESTINIAN. Now, this is the Israeli-PALESTINIAN conflict. Do you want to work it out, or do you want me to spell it out? Do you think I will care more about gay rights in Egypt, when I am not Egyptian, or the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, when it concerns me much more? Also, you want to talk about rights in the West Bank?! Dont get me started, your Israeli buddies are doing a great job at supressing them.

You have a TON of stuff to care about in the Middle East that is more important than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. How will a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict fix the whole Middle East? The answer is, of course, that it won't. You say you are "Palestinian" but haven't you lived in Qatar your whole life? I'd like to know why you, and every single Arab, focuses all their energy on Israel rather on their own problems. Please answer that.

Doesnt take a genius to figure that one out. Your point?

My point is that Israel's counterterrorism policy has worked. And no matter what the cost to Palestinian freedom of movement, it has stopped innocent Israelis from dying--Something the Palestinain leadershipwas unable/unwilling to do.

Let me get this straight. I said I would have supported it prior to 1967, because these people took MY country, and this means I want to see a few million Jews slaughtered? So tell me RJ, if Arabs invaded big areas of America today and created a state in the place of the West Coast, you would not want its destruction? Please show me where I supported "another Holocaust".

QR, the Arabs always attacked Israel saying they would slaughter every Jew, etc etc. I have little doubt that if Arabs had won in 1967, there would be very, very few Jews living in the land that is Israel today. They would have been slaughtered.

I love people who believe everything they read in chain emails.

HA. Maybe I'll start another thread on this later, but there is quite a lot of evidence that points to Arafat having died of AIDS.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:52 am

They tried to do something similar in 1948. The Arabs rejected it. Instead we wound up with ONE country where rules and law apply equally to Jews, Christians, and Islam. There is no other country in the Middle East with as much religious freedom as Israel. You don't see many Jews walking around the streets of Cairo or Beirut.

The Israelis rejected it too, and for good reasons which we have been over hundreds of times.

That's funny. You never seem to show ANY hostility towards the Arab regimes that have kept your people in refugee camps for 56 years, feeding you propaganda and so on.

I have never expressed hostility? I have criticized the regimes before, and I will criticize them again, especially Lebanon for its very harsh policies. Don't twist my words - I said the Israel put them there and the Arabs didn't help out, that doesn't make it the Arabs fault.

Umm, no. If he hadn't tried to go through a checkpoint, the whole thing wouldn't have happened. He was free not to attempt it.

Are you suggesting Palestinians do not move around at all in the West Bank and stick to one area only? If you can live like that you are one strange... wait... you need a life to go places. Wrong person to ask.

LOL. With statements like this, you wonder why Falcon and I and others view you as part of the problem. You are more or less condoning suicide bombing with this statement; Next time you wonder why Americans don't have sympathy for you, think about comments like these.

Interpret it as you like RJ, I stand by my statements and I know what I mean. I don't give a shit about America's sympathy, I have made that clear many times in the past.

Sorry dear, even if a seperate Palestinian state existed, there would still be a huge load of militants wanting to attack Israel--A fence is the only longterm solution to stop suicide bombing.

Visit Gayliners and call guys dear all you want, but dont try this shit with me. Now, no there would not be a problem. The problem is that they are attacking you because of Israel's continued occupation of the little they have left.

Please QR. As I said above, what media is balanced? Your media is just as biased in the other direction so spare me your crap.

As I said, most people agree on this point. American media is just scary, they give you a whole goddamn documantry on a single dead Israeli but when a dozen Palestinians die all you get is a sentence in the news bar.

Get it now?

My bad. Finally RJ, you say something that makes sense and convinces me. Congrats.

YES! Are you joking? Why else would Israel spend a load of money and lower the morale of their military? I can't believe that you really think Israel does it for sh*ts and giggles

Shits and giggles my ass. Israel would like nothing more than to grab more land from the West Bank, which is why it tries to encourage Palestinians to leave by shoving them into a life like this.

You have a TON of stuff to care about in the Middle East that is more important than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. How will a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict fix the whole Middle East? The answer is, of course, that it won't. You say you are "Palestinian" but haven't you lived in Qatar your whole life? I'd like to know why you, and every single Arab, focuses all their energy on Israel rather on their own problems. Please answer that.

I have lived in Jordan for half of my life, and in Qatar for the rest of it. What is this ton of stuff that I, as a Palestinian, need to care about? Qatar is a very stable country with tolerance, hell, my little sister, who btw attends the ASD (American School of Doha) has a Jew in her class, to disprove your point about no Jews being allowed in, I am living a very happy life in a great country with nothing to worry about. What are these problems I need to face? Please tell me? Most other Arabs actually do not focus on the Israeli-Palestinian subject more than their own problems, and I cannot speak for them but as for myself, and every other Palestinian, it is because this involves my land. And me living outside of Palestine all my life RJ only gives me more determination to want to visit it one day, and to learn all I can about my country.

My point is that Israel's counterterrorism policy has worked. And no matter what the cost to Palestinian freedom of movement, it has stopped innocent Israelis from dying--Something the Palestinain leadershipwas unable/unwilling to do.

Unable, not unwilling. And It has cost many more innocent Palestinians, not only during the intifada but also before, for these supposed security measures.

QR, the Arabs always attacked Israel saying they would slaughter every Jew, etc etc. I have little doubt that if Arabs had won in 1967, there would be very, very few Jews living in the land that is Israel today. They would have been slaughtered.

So how does this reflect my views?.

HA. Maybe I'll start another thread on this later, but there is quite a lot of evidence that points to Arafat having died of AIDS.

Good for you RJ, i'm off to find the Obsession pic.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Vio

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:14 am

"Maybe I'll start another thread on this later, but there is quite a lot of evidence that points to Arafat having died of AIDS".

is that a fact? or just something your running with that's been thrown about by the media and a former Romanian spy, AIDS victims look alot worse than Arafat did when he was last seen alive, they have lot's of blotches all over the face for a start, they don't have the strength to even raise there arms let alone blow kisses and wave at people, and his wife and daughter would most likely have the disease too!
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:20 am

BECAUSE ISRAEL LOVES TO MAKE PALESTINIAN LIFE HELL IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

Or... A more logical and coherent theory would be that it's BECAUSE THE PALESTINIANS WANT TO KILL ALL JEWS...
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:40 am

Of course the soldiers were cleared of all guilt.

Guess the man must be happy they are not prosecuting him for "playing by his own will" (now think logically - with IDF being rather safe than sorry - which IDF soldier in his right mind would allow someone to pull out a violine without the man being allowed specifically.... if he'd do it "by his own will" he'd end up with accute lead poisoining).

Other than that ... the checkpoint in quesiton (Beit Iba near Nablus) is geographically in the middle of the West Bank - not on the Israeli border.

D.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Israeli Soldiers Force Palestinian To Play Violin.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:10 am

QR332,

I am 62.5% and 37.5% .

 Smile

I have a psychology test to study for tonight, so I will have to miss out on all the fun in this thread for tonight.

However, I'll share this quote:

"The state.... must see the sword as the main if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may — no it MUST — invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation and revenge.... And above all, let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." — Moshe Sharett



[Edited 2004-12-01 03:13:46]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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