Usairwys757
Topic Author
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Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:56 am

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1935138

After just 3 seasons ND fired Ty Willingham. Just goes to show the expectations of that school. He went 21-15.

ESPN reports that the frontrunner will probably be Urban Meyer of Utah to replace him.
Inactive.....
 
saxdiva
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:05 am

Man, I wish UCLA would get off the dime and grab him. But apparently, the A.D. isn't as tired of all the mediocrity as the fans...  Insane

-Leanne
 
EMBQA
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:31 am

I disagree with his termination. I've been a fan of NF football for years and since he came to ND three years ago you could see a change in the team. The kids where playing harder, the students loved him and from what I was reading.. recrutment was increasing. They have a good young QB and lots of room to improve. They beat some good teams this year, and their losses where all to top teams.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:11 am

It'll be interesting to see who the Candleburners will come up who will get a greater support from his players and the fans. The list is likely very, very short.

Just goes to show that it's all about wins and losses. Apparently there's no margin for building a winner. The friggin' alumni wants their success now, not later.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
TYSGoVols
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:15 am

What the heck. Ty was a dang good coach. He went through a tough rebuilding year last year and this year was pretty good. They beat some pretty good teams hint hint read my name. They beat some dang good teams and now they fire him. What the heck Notre Dame you are full of crap.

<>< Garen
Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
 
dl021
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:28 am

I think that Notre Dame should have given the guy another year to make the mark. He showed improvement and had done a good job with recruiting, which was an area ND has been losing ground in. Anyone else now will have to start from less than scratch with recruiting because parent will be less trusting of someone new when sending their kids off to school.

When you bring someone in to bring your program out of the doldrums you have to give the guy enough time to get the job done. ND alums are living in the past, and I think they fail to understand the new situation in college football.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
EMBQA
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:07 am

Hey VOLS..

As a Notre Dame fan living in Nashville and being very anti UT, I was so thrilled when they beat UT two weeks ago. That was a game won on defense. But I agree with everything you said...... I would have liked to have seen that team next year with Ty.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:08 am

As a Notre Dame Double Domer (Class of 1999 and Law School Class of 2002) I am 100% in favor of the decision to fire Ty. Without a doubt he was/is a class act who represented the Univeristy well. However, he has not improved -- the team has done worse (okay, we have a better record than last year, but 6-5 still is dismal).

Most of the discussion among alums that I've been privy to has focused less on Ty as a coach, but on the opportunity to get Urban Meyer, which may well not be there next year. Coupled with the poor record this season (beating Michigan and Tenn was great, but losing to Pitt, B.C. and Purdue at home in the same season was unacceptable), now was the time to act to ensure that the athletes, students, alums and subway alums have the coach they deserve.

As for us "friggin'" alums wanting success now, keep in mind that we have not won a National Championship since 1988 (although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed). We have lived through five seasons of Bob Davie and three of Ty. We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

As for Ty's support among students, there was supposed to be a large student rally this evening demanding Ty's removal.



[Edited 2004-12-01 01:09:48]
 
EMBQA
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:42 am

...although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed...

You got that right......!!!!! That was the year Florida State and Notre Dame went tooth and nail all season....and Notre Dame 'BEAT' Florida State. Both teams finished with one loss. Because ND lost the next week to Boston College.. the Championship went to Florida State. Anyone that watched the ND-BC game saw a WAY better and harder fought then the Florida State game, with Boston College winning on a field goal with seconds left.

[Edited 2004-12-01 01:42:49]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
NDSchu777
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:21 am

I definitely think Ty is a great person and an excellent representative of the Notre Dame off the field, but his performance on the field wasn't at the same level.

Willingham had a great 8-0 start to his career in 2002 and it seemed like things were turning the corner, but things have changed for the worse since then. The team has gone 13-15 since then and suffered 8 blow-out losses by more than 3 touchdowns. And last year under Willingham was one of the lowest ranked recruiting classes in a very long time.

Like most ND fans, I was extatic for those first 8 wins, but in the back of my mind I was a little concerned with how close many of those games were, but I didn't care because we were winning. The flaws of the system were exposed near the end of the 2002 season and it's been down hill from there. At the beginning I was in denial, and trying to make excuses like a lot of people, that we just needed to give it time and wait for Ty's "system" and recruits to get into place. Last season was horrible with blow-out after blow-out and it was getting harder and harder to make excuses. Following that was the lowest ranked recruiting ND has brought in in decades. Prior to that we consistantly brought in top 10 recruiting classes.

This season was going to be the true test if this coaching staff could return ND to the school it once was. ND pulled a big upsets over Michigan and Tennessee and proved there is a talented team that could motivate itself to win big. However losses to easier opponents like Bringham Young, Pittsburgh, Boston College, and Purdue and then getting absolutely humiliated for the 3rd year in a row by USC showed that the coaching staff was making huge mistakes in play-calling and under-utilizing the potential of the talented players on the team. The team has appeared to regress under this staff and no end was in sight.

I also felt a lot more concern about the assistant coaches on the staff, namely Bill Dietrich the OC and Buzz Preston, the Special Teams Coach who had no special teams experience (as obvious from their performance). While I like Willingham, it was obvious these were some very weak links on the team last year, but he refused to replace him. And the only person you can hold accountable for the coaching staff selection is the head coach.

I think after the BC game this year I gave up on this staff. I thought that a coaching change was necessary but was shocked that the administration at ND actually went through and let the staff go now.

Unlike Bob Davie, people genuinely liked Willingham, and truly wanted to see him succeed at Notre Dame. But the performance wasn't showing it. Bob Davie at least followed his losing seasons with considerably decent seasons. A 6-5 season isn't much of an improvement over last year.

3 years is a good evaluation point of coaches too. Look what Pete Carroll did at USC and Bob Stoops did at Oklahoma in their first 3 years and compare that to Willingham. Look what Lou Holz and Ara Parseghian did in their first 3 years to turn around ND in the past. Look what Urban Meyer is doing at Utah now in his first 2 years there. Someone like him have great potential to do it at Notre Dame.

At the same time everyone's making a big deal about Willingham being fired after 3 years, where are the complaints about Ron Zook at Florida or Buddy Teavens at Stanford getting fired in their 3rd year. I don't remember USC being too sad to see Paul Hackett get fired in his 3rd year, especially after bringing Carroll in? Or better yet the complaints about Solich getting fired at Nebraska after a 9-3 season, much less a losing season followed by a mediocre 6-5 one?

Again, I wish Willingham could have been one of the great ND coaches, but in 3 years ND has regressed and run in circles. I wish him the best in his next position (I hear Washington is highly interested in him). And I hope ND finds the next Lou, Ara, Leahy, or Rockne in the coming days and weeks!

Hey, PresRDC it's great to see another Domer on the board. I just graduated this past May!

GO IRISH!
Nick
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:36 pm

I definitely think Ty is a great person and an excellent representative of the Notre Dame off the field, but his performance on the field wasn't at the same level.

Hard to tell when he didn't get a chance to see his first recruiting class make it to it's senior year.

Unfortunately, Notre Dame has become so full of itself that if a guy doesn't win all the time, he won't have a chance to grow the program. Who in their right mind would want to go to a program so quick to pull the plug on anything you try to do.

In the college game, you need at least 4 years to get the program in the direction you want it, with your kind of people. Notre Dame panicked, and they fired one of the best coaches in the nation. Ty will land a great job somewhere very soon (Florida?), and Notre Dame will continue to be stuck in mediocrity, because it can no longer attract the top players in the nation.

Just another reason to hate a program I already loathed.

Big mistake, Irish fan. You'll regret you let this gem go.

And yes, I was glad USC ran the score up on ND, even though I like Ty a lot.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Arch89U
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:21 pm

As a current student at Notre Dame, the sentiment here is that Ty had his fair shot and just couldn't cut it.

The main problem I saw with Ty is that the players could motivate themselves for the big games such as Michigan and Tennessee, but were woefully flat when it came to games against such teams as Pittsburgh and BC.

As for the student rally that was planned for tonight, there was going to be a giving back of the "return to glory" shirts that were made before the 10-2 2002 season. We were going to lay down the shirts on the steps of the Dome to make our point.

The players are upset over the sudden firing, and not eager to have to prove themselves to a new coach and learn a new system, but it will be better in the long run to get rid of Ty and try for more success in the next few years.

Additionally, students in Morrissey and St. Ed's hall (two dorms on campus) had hung "Fire Ty" signs in their dorms starting after the loss to BC.

Everyone here also refers to the great coach Ara Parseghian when he said "if you can't get it done in three years, you will never get it done."

Lets start the Urban Renewal.
 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:45 am

As a former Manorite, it is good to see The Manor take the lead in the anti-Ty campaign. I also love the idea with the Return to Glory t-shirts, although I think they will be valuable collectors items (right up there with the "By George It's O'Leary" shirts).
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:17 am

As a current student at Notre Dame, the sentiment here is that Ty had his fair shot and just couldn't cut it.

A "fair" shot isn't 3 seasons. A college coach at a major program, unless he is winning only 2 or 3 games, should have at least 4 years-to see his first recruiting class reach it's senior season, and to fully impliment his schemes. Three years isn't enough time.

As for Urban Meyer, if he has to choose between ND and UF, he'll take UF, because it's inherently easier to build a winning program. Notre Dame's "mystique" died years ago, and no decent coach would go to ND, especilly with the hair-trigger administration there.

I still feel part of this is due to the fact that Ty wasn't their first choice, and that some old-fashioned types still prefer good old white, Irish-sounding coaches. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:23 am

This is almost as bad as Nebraska firing Solich last year...college expectations for their coaches are getting a little ridiculous...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Arch89U
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:41 am

Falcon84, I hate to say it, but you are completely and utterly wrong on two of your three points.

First, Urban Meyer's out clause involves three midwestern schools, Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame. There is no SEC clause in his contract, leading me to believe that he wants to coach in the Midwest and not at Florida. Urban will take the job here, because Notre Dame will make the better offer.

Secondly, Ty was not fired because he was black or as you said to get back to good old Irish sounding coaches. Everyone here thought Ty was an excellent representative of the ideas of Notre Dame and as NDSchu777 said, people genuinely wanted him to succeed here. Ty was a great man off the field and people appreciated his good standing, but he could not get it done on the field.

Additionally, whether this decision was going to be made yesterday or two years down the road, it was going to be made. Ty was not going to resurrect the Irish, and it will be nice if Meyer can get the job done.
 
slider
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:05 am

We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

Come down off that high horse and smell reality.

The reality, that Paul Hornung stated and was nuked for it, is that ND can't recruit like the football factories because of their standards.

So do you want to have National Championships, or do you want to adhere to the true student-athlete model?

ND is finding out you can't have it both ways. I admire ND for keeping the bar high (which was lowered by Holtz BTW, or else the football program would have sucked long before now), but to demand "excellence" in every regard just isn't going to happen.

In this case, it is a zero sum game.
 
KROC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:20 am

Excellent crackback Slider. That "we have waited long enough" crap is pathetic. I will touch up Arch too once I get some more time.
 
slider
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:28 am

Excellent crackback Slider. That "we have waited long enough" crap is pathetic.

Hehe....I couldn't resist.  Smile

I have friends, co-workers, colleagues who are all ND alums. Mostly good people, but there is a great deal of pretentious prickishness as if the whole damn world of industry, business, law, athletics, whatever should all bow down and worship almighty Notre Dame. Give me a break! I get tired of that "our shit doesn't stink" routine from the Golden Domers.

 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:09 am

The stakes in this are huge and just for ND. The issue is can a school maintain high academic standards and still be an elite football program. What a sad commentary on the state of college athletics if the answer is no. If the answer is no, then one must ask why. Do we really want to say that football players are not smart enough to survive at top academic schools? Are we comfortable with the racial overtones of that line of thinking?

Notre Dame is able to excel in sports other than football while maintaining its high academic standards. With the exception of basketball (which is improving each year), ND dominates the Big East. We have won National Championships in both women's soccer and women's basketball in recent years. Why can't football preform on the same level.
 
NDSchu777
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:01 am

The whole "Notre Dame Can't Recruit Top Players Anymore" thing is a big myth. Despite the more stringent academic standards, colder climate, or whatever other excuses people throw out there, Notre Dame has still managed to pull in some of the country's top recruiting classes. Last year was the first time in decades that the in-coming class was not ranked in the Top 10. Obviously the coaching staffs under Davie and Willingham over the past 10 years haven't been able to fully develop the top 10 raw talent and turn it into top 10 performers.

This fact proves that it's poor coaching and not poor recruiting that has been to blame for the last decade of mediocre performance. And again, this year's considerably lower ranked class shows (along with the way the next class is shaping up) that the recruits aren't pouring in mainly as a reaction to the poor performance on the field. With recruiting finally being affected negatively, the program was heading in a further downward spiral. And now ND is taking a stand and hopefully will fix it with a competent coaching staff that will get the players to live up to their full potential.

And if you don't believe me, here's a summary of numbers that someone compiled on an ND fan website.

-Nick

The data below represents volumes of hard data compiled on thousands of high school football players by Parade, SuperPrep, Lemming, Emfinger, G&W Recruiting Advisor, Prepstar, AND Rivals over the past 5 years, with no thought to bolstering anyone's argument for this Saturday's ND-USC game.

OFFENSE

ND - SC
QB Quinn (12) - Leinart (9),
BACKS Walker (13)/Grant (25)/P-Neal (36) - White (7)/Bush (5)/Webb (253)
WR Stovall (4)/McKnight (9)/Holiday (8)/Samardzija (22) - Smith (3)/Buchanan (23)/McFay (76)/Jarrett (4)
TE Fasano (8) - Holmes (5)
OL Sullivan (3)/LeVoir (4)/Morton (14)/Harris (18)/Stevenson (19) - Lutui (4)/Matua (12)/Baker (15)/Kalil (34)/Drake (113)

DEFENSE

DL Abiamiri (1)/Pauly (4)/Landri (5)/Tuck (16) - Cody (1)/Jackson (6)/Patterson (140)/Rucker (Unranked)
LB Goolsby (4)/Curry (25)/Hoyte (29) - Grootegood (3)/Santz (23)/Tatupu (Unranked)
CB Campbell (18)/Ellick (Unranked)/Jackson (69) - Wyatt (25)/Nunn (165)
S Zbikowski (9)/Burrell (21) - Bing (4)/Leach (29)

As expected USC ranks very well in the rankings for their overall recruit classes over the last 5 years (based on a composite of these same top 6 recruiting services, including Rivals) that comprise their 2004 squad = 11, 13, 7, 1, 1 for a very low total of 33 recruit points or an average of 6.6 per year. Very few teams in the country could match such impressive numbers. Surprisingly however, ND is one of those teams. In fact ND had an even lower 6, 5, 5, 3 (for a best-in-the-country average of 4.8) prior to Ty's last #17 ranked class that brought the 2004 team total recruit points up to 36 - for a still very low average of 7.2.
 
Usairwys757
Topic Author
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:17 am

Poor coaching??? He didnt have the damn time to coach HIS team that he recruited. You ND alums and fans are just delusional. A football team is not built overnight, it takes 4-5 years. He improved his record this year over last.

It wasnt poor coaching that was the problem, Tyrone Willingham is a first class coach.
Inactive.....
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:39 pm

First, Urban Meyer's out clause involves three midwestern schools, Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame. There is no SEC clause in his contract

So? I don't thnk that means much of anything. If that were such a big deal, his name wouldn't keep coming up for the UF job. But it does keep coming up, and I think if he was courted by UF, he'd take it in a heartbeat over the flailing fortunes at ND.

Urban will take the job here, because Notre Dame will make the better offer.

On what level? In recruiting players-hell, UF has all the talent in the world in it's backyard. On the likelihood of winning championships? ND hasn't been a player on the national scene in a decade. UF is consistently in the top 25, and a major player. In salary? Don't bet on it. UF has deep pockets, and they'll make an offer as good or better than ND.

Ty was a great man off the field and people appreciated his good standing, but he could not get it done on the field.

That's a joke, sorry to say. On a top-tier progam, as I said, you cannot give a coach anything less than at least 4 or 5 seasons to see how he can shape a program. You just can't. And now you'll never know what a good thing you let go.

Had Ty not gotten any further by the '06 season, then yes, I can see getting rid of him. But, in 3 years? On a progam that hasn't done anything in a decade? Come on! That's just ludicrous.

And I love ND Fan and Administration saying what a great representative of ND that Ty was-what a class act he was. And you got rid of him? ROTFL. The laughs on Irish fan, no one else.

The whole "Notre Dame Can't Recruit Top Players Anymore" thing is a big myth.

The record over the past decade speaks to the contrary. One reason they can't, and in a way I hope they don't change this, is they keep higher acedemic standards. That is THE primary reason-because a lot of kids can't cut the grade, literally, at South Bend.

Face it Irish Nation, you guys blew it, and blew it big time. And you won't get Urban, either. He's going to UF or somewhere else. If he ends up at ND, I wish him well.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
mdsh00
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:21 pm

As for us "friggin'" alums wanting success now, keep in mind that we have not won a National Championship since 1988 (although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed). We have lived through five seasons of Bob Davie and three of Ty. We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

Yes well us at UCLA haven't won a Basketball championship since '95 (and BBall means a lot here) but there is no reason to be impatient and get rid of someone with potential. This stuff takes time but apparently ND just can't wait. In the end, it might take Notre Dame longer to become big again since it will take a new coach about 2-3 recruiting classes to actually have an effect on the team.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
MD-90
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:39 pm

 
KROC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:00 pm

Falcon84, I hate to say it, but you are completely and utterly wrong on two of your three points.

Falcon is usually wrong with about 66% of his opinions, but not this time.  Big grin

First, Urban Meyer's out clause involves three midwestern schools, Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame. There is no SEC clause in his contract, leading me to believe that he wants to coach in the Midwest and not at Florida. Urban will take the job here, because Notre Dame will make the better offer.

No SEC clause? How many coaches have any type of clause at all? Urban has strong ties to the Florida Crocs AD (he was the AD at Utah before moving on). Florida has the better potential to build and maintain a winning program. The mystique of Notre Dame has been lost (and thank god), and I'm about sick and tired of the "stringent academic standards" because if a top recruit wanted to go to ND but wasn't up to par on grades, they would make it happen. ND just doesn't attract the recruits like they used too. Florida can and does and would do so even more with Urban at the helm. Also, a big factor in recruiting involves the number of NFL draft picks the school has. Florida schools (especially Miami as of late) have been pumping draft pics into the NFL in record numbers. ND hasn't. Certain things like that just cannot be over looked.

Secondly, Ty was not fired because he was black or as you said to get back to good old Irish sounding coaches. Everyone here thought Ty was an excellent representative of the ideas of Notre Dame and as NDSchu777 said, people genuinely wanted him to succeed here. Ty was a great man off the field and people appreciated his good standing, but he could not get it done on the field.

Ty was fired because he was NOT the man that ND originally wanted for the job. I don't think he was fired because he was black, but he was never given ample time to succeed with his own players with his own system. A few years ago after Davey was canned, everyone thought Ty was the logical choice. He built Stanford into a solid football school while dealing with their high acedemic standards. It should have been a perfect fit, but ND did not want him. They took O'Leary and when that went south, under pressure of 1.) looking bad with O'Leary and 2.) facing massive pressure to hire a black coach Notre Dame hired Ty. That guy never had a chance to win there. He is a good guy, he is respectable, and he CAN get the job done on the field, any Notre Dame honk who tells you otherwise doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Additionally, whether this decision was going to be made yesterday or two years down the road, it was going to be made. Ty was not going to resurrect the Irish, and it will be nice if Meyer can get the job done.

Ty wasn't going to bring the Irish back...becuase he was never given a chance to actually succeed. He never had the full support of the Athletic Department and the "Boosters". If there is anything better than watching the Miami Hurricanes win, it would be watching Notre Dame lose and watching their football program turn into an abortion, but its sad that Ty is being used as the scapegoat. Sad.

And Notre Dame dominence in the Big East? Does someone actually believe that?????  Insane
 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:14 am

"And Notre Dame dominence in the Big East? Does someone actually believe that?????"

There are other sports in the Big East than basketball.

My point was that ND is very successful in its other sports programs with its high academic standards. Why should football be different?

 
KROC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:39 am

Yeah, you also mentioned Soccer as a "sport". You lost it there, and lets face it, basketball, baseball and especially football are the main college sports that make the schools money. Not Soccer, water polo, or rugby.
 
Arch89U
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:40 am

One final point. Two years down the road, when this decision would have definitely been made, ESPN.com and the like would be saying that Ty had been given too many years and could not get it done.

Come January, if not Urban Meyer, we will have someone of equal caliber and with the ability to win. There is a large talent pool of coaches that want nothing more than to coach in South Bend.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:45 am

One final point. Two years down the road, when this decision would have definitely been made, ESPN.com and the like would be saying that Ty had been given too many years and could not get it done.

Easy to say now that he was let go before his first recruiting class graduates.

Look, this isn't a mid-major program, where the carousel of coaches is never-ending. This is allegedy a top-flite, stable program-that, by the way, has it's own freaking network for it's football games. If that's the case, you tarnish your image and your ability to recruit if you're changing coaches every three years, and not letting a big-time coach put his mark on a team.

Hell, they let an incompetent like Gerry Faust stay longer than this! And even Bob Davie. And Irish fan can't see why the rest of the nation is laughing their asses off at you guys?  Laugh out loud

Come January, if not Urban Meyer, we will have someone of equal caliber and with the ability to win.

You need better players to win, and a coach given a chance to put his stamp on the program. You'll get neither with the rep ND is quickly building up. Which is fine by me.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:16 am

I've updated my resume.

Signed,
George O'Leary

 Wink/being sarcastic
 
srbmod
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:09 am

I've updated my resume.

Signed,
George O'Leary


I was wondering how long it would take for him to get mentioned. In some ways, there really was not much expected out of Willingham, since he was basically Notre Dame's second choice as a result of Resumegate. Sure he came in a highly regarded coach, regardless of whether he was black, white, blue, or purple; but when you have to go to your fallback choice, it's almost like saying, he's close to the best we could find. Three years was not enough time to develop the team regardless had if been O'Leary or Willingham as coach. They should have given him one more season to prove himself, but alas, like Ron Zook, he doesn't. Notre Dame does expect winning, but the reality is that even the top programs can expect down years.
 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:27 am

It's more than a few down years, that's the problem. Ty was the victim of bad timing. He took over program after a bleak five year stretch under Bob Davie and level of patience among the students and alums was just not high. What really did Ty in was the sudden rise of Urban Meyer and the belief that if ND did not act now, it would lose the oppoortunity for the foreseeable future, if not forever. Of course, had Ty produced a winning team or even one that looked to be improving, it would not have been an issue, but he didn't and ND had to jump on the opportunity. As I said above, Ty was a wonderful ambassador for the Univeristy who handled himself with class and dignity. I wish him nothing but the best in the future and have no doubt that he will prosper.
 
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:34 am

What pisses me off is that Willingham rocked his first season- the Golden Domers were all jacking off and talking smack about how ND football was back, blah, blah, blah....then he struggles, which is fine. And does it with players LGW-Luftfahrtgesellschaft Walter (Germany)">HE DIDN'T RECRUIT!

Then he doesn't get the courtesy to even finish the job.

And the kids playing for him have to really be PO'd.

The thing about Meyer that works in his favor is that he did in fact win with first year players he didn't recruit at TWO different schools. the guy is definitely a rising star in the college ranks.

Still, ND people need to realize the glory days are over and probably aren't coming back.
 
NDSchu777
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:03 am

Still, ND people need to realize the glory days are over and probably aren't coming back.

People were saying the same thing in 1964 and in 1986 after ND was in extended down periods. But right afterwards when ND got the right coaches in places, they immediately made impacts and it took only 3 years to start winning national titles again.

So people who talk smack like that have gotten proven wrong in the past and I have a feeling history could repeat itself.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:24 pm

Ty was the victim of bad timing. He took over program after a bleak five year stretch under Bob Davie

FIVE YEAR STRETCH! Exactly my point! You guys gave a stiff like Davie 5 full seasons, and Ty didn't even get to finish his third? Now, tell me again, this has nothing to do with the fact that 1. he wasn't the #1 choice, and 2, that he's black, because I think both played a factor.

Again, if you can stomach 5 years of Davie, why not give Ty AT LEAST that amount of time? It's just stupidity on ND's part, and they've screwed up their already sagging reputation once again.

People were saying the same thing in 1964 and in 1986 after ND was in extended down periods. But right afterwards when ND got the right coaches in places,

I'm saying it. The Glory Days are over. And you had the right coach, you just canned him. Good job!!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Arch89U
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:33 pm

You people are quite possibly the most pessimistic people that have ever walked the face of the planet. Notre Dame will certainly return to glory at some point, because the health of the school depends on it. Alumni support is what this school is built on, and a lot of that alumni support revolves around football unfortunately. The fact that the administration realizes this indicates to me that we will become contenders again just based on the fact that the administration cares so much about getting this job done.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:36 pm

Notre Dame will certainly return to glory at some point, because the health of the school depends on it.

If the healh of the entire universlty hinges on the "glory" of the football program, then ND is in worse shape than I thought. That's an utterly ridiculous statement. No school's "health" is made or broken on a sports program. Puhleez.

If that's the only reason the Alumni support the institution, then maybe it's time to get rid of sports, and support it for the real reason it is in existence-educating kids.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
PresRDC
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:45 am

"FIVE YEAR STRETCH! Exactly my point! You guys gave a stiff like Davie 5 full seasons, and Ty didn't even get to finish his third? Now, tell me again, this has nothing to do with the fact that 1. he wasn't the #1 choice, and 2, that he's black, because I think both played a factor.

Again, if you can stomach 5 years of Davie, why not give Ty AT LEAST that amount of time? It's just stupidity on ND's part, and they've screwed up their already sagging reputation once again."

Trust me on this one. The students and alums did not stomach five years of Davie, he was nearly universally loathed on campus. The only support he had was with the administration which was content to let football be mediocre as long as the program did not cause embarssment to the University through off field antics, the graduation rate stayed high and the money from ticket sales, the NBC contract and merchandise continued to roll-in.

That the administration has finally taken to listening to its alums and students is a very positive step.
 
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:45 am

People were saying the same thing in 1964 and in 1986 after ND was in extended down periods. But right afterwards when ND got the right coaches in places, they immediately made impacts and it took only 3 years to start winning national titles again.

So people who talk smack like that have gotten proven wrong in the past and I have a feeling history could repeat itself.


That's because they lowered the bar!!

Hello?

Holtz was able to lower the acceptance standards and ergo, ND's recruiting took off. Duh.

 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:09 pm

Hey Irish Fan: yoohoo? Where are you?

So Urban was smart and said no to South Bend, and yes to Tallahassee! ROTFL. You guys blew it BIG TIME, and I for one live it.  Big thumbs up
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Usairwys757
Topic Author
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:22 pm

Falcon, way to ruin it. Urban is going to Gainesville, not Tallahassee.  Big grin
Inactive.....
 
Falcon84
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RE: Notre Dame Fires Willingham

Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:30 pm

I didn't ruin it, man: I called it.  Big grin
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