TWFirst
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Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:36 am

Prince Bernhard, father of Queen Beatrix, has died at 93. Evidently, he was really popular with the Dutch, which I find surprising since he was German.

So, the Queen of the Netherlands is half German?? How do the Dutch feel about that? I know the British royal family is of German origin, but those roots go back several generations. Given the Dutch's dislike for Germans, I would think a first generation German royal would be frowned upon. But what do I know... I'm just an envious American Big grin.

An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
jasepl
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:01 am

Why the envy TWFirst? You wanna be Queen?  Big grin
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:22 am

Well, you know... the jewelry IS fabulous...  Big grin


No dingy, I'm envious because I wanna be European! Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:27 am

Queen Beatrix' late husband, the much loved and respected Prince Claus, was also a German. Prince Willem-Alexander, heir to the Dutch throne is therefore three-quarters German. His wife, Princess Máxima is Argentinian. Their daughter, the second-in-line-to-the-Dutch-throne Princess Amalia (born 7 December 2003) is therefore half Argentinian, 37½% German and only 12½% Dutch (?) .... complicated!

The British Royals' German blood was very much diluted by the late Queen Elizabeth (Queen Mother), and by Diana Princess of Wales.

Just my €0.02.

Regards, Robert
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:31 am

So Robert, how do you feel about your future Queen being only 1/8 Dutch?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:42 am

Oh I'm no great royalist TWFirst, but as an amateur historian I know a bit about these things. Hopefully the Dutch should have got used to the idea by the time she becomes queen.

Regards, Robert
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
iakobos
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:45 am

Indeed, the Germans (generic) were very busy producing elegant and übermost intelligent would-be Kings (fewer Queens) during the 18th century.

They understood at an early stage that they did not have the shadow of a chance to crush the French, not even the English.
So they came with a very long term plan to enter from the back-door and dot our thrones with their own products.

England, the Netherlands, Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece Royal positions were filled with Saxe-Coburg Gotha and the likes, with the result that there is German (generic) blood in all Royal families in Europe,....except France.

More seriously, yes, HH Pr Bernhard was highly respected in the NL.
His origin plays absolutely no role once he took the responsibility.

ps: he was a pilot
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:47 am

Robert, I don't believe you are understanding my question. Your answer is a bit circuitous.

I'm just curious how you, a Dutchman, feel about your future monarch essentially not being Dutch. How do you think the Dutch feel about it?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:35 am

Actually the foreign mixing goes back forever... way before Bernhard. The father of Queen Juliana (1909-2004), Prince Hendrik, was German as well, as well as the mother of the earlier Queen Wilhelminia (1880-1962) Queen Emma etc etc. So following Roberts calculations Amalia might end up being less then 1% dutch. Nobody really cares here! In royalty it has been intentional princes and princesses marry 'foreigners', as people on a royal level (like viscounts, earls and how those people are called) there are just too few locals available. I will be flamed for this but while UK citizens are much more "xenophobic" and seem to keep distance themselves from the rest of Europe then Holland, I never heared them make an issue that Elizabeths husband, Philip, is a Greek, a country culturally further away from England then Germany from the Netherlands.
The German husbands of our (former) Queens were more judged by their actions. Prince Bernhard who now died married Juliana in 1937, before the II WW, and fought with the allieds. Prince Claus was much more controversial when he married Beatrix in 1966, because this was only 21 years after the II WW and then Dutch didn't like Germans, but Claus stole the heart (much more then Bernhard actually) by distancing himself from anything military and having "liberal" ideas and deeds connected to devopment and human rights, not resembling in anything the cliches we then still had about Germans (right wing, agressive, formalistic, humorless, bratwurst-beer-lederhosen). It was never a problem for instance Maxima, the wife of the next king Willem Alexander, is from Argentina, the critisizm only focussed on the track record of her father in the former military regime of Argentina.

[Edited 2004-12-02 00:48:04]
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
jasepl
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:54 am

Well, you know... the jewelry IS fabulous...

He he he...

No dingy, I'm envious because I wanna be European

Now that we've seen how accepting Europeans are, all you need to go is marry one of the Dutch royals - you can become European and Queen at the same time!  Big grin
 
iakobos
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:02 am

MEA707,

a rectification is due, Philip Mountbatten is not Greek, except by citizenship before he became English. He is 1/2 Danish, 1/2 German (Battenberg).
Might sound strange but there is not a single drop of Greek blood in the (former and present) Greek Royal family.
 
Klaus
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:02 am

We europeans are pretty "mixed up" anyway - not just the royals. The idea of "purity" along national borders has never been realistic. And as mentioned above, the gene pool of the royals is dangerously small anyway, so the need for expansion is imperative.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:18 am

I just thought of another question...

Since same-sex marriage is legal in the Netherlands, could the Dutch monarch marry someone of the same sex?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:19 am

Kind of funny to see a German named Klaus to respond to this particular topic  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
MEA-707
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:24 am

TWFirst > Actually the Dutch heir was EXCLUDED from the right to marry someone of the same sex. Well actually they can marry someone of the same sex, but the Dutch parliament will then not recognize the couple as heir to the throne anymore, as they want the heir to reproduce (and not cause controversy). This year the 2nd son of the Queen, Friso, has his marriage been refushed "recognition" by the parliament. He still married but can't be king anymore even if the Queen, his elder brother and (future) children die. This was not because it was a same sex marriage (although many believed Friso was gay) but because his girlfriend used to date top criminals.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
jasepl
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:30 am

Since same-sex marriage is legal in the Netherlands, could the Dutch monarch marry someone of the same sex?

Hmmm... Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I would guess that people in line to the throne might be precluded from this because of the need to produce an heir. Also, the sovereign's role within the church (if there is an established shurch and if the sovereign had a role - maybe some of our Dutch friends can clarify) might have something to do with it.
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:35 am

TWFirst:

"Since same-sex marriage is legal in the Netherlands, could the Dutch monarch marry someone of the same sex?"

Actually, some years ago there were strong rumours that Prince Constantijn, Prince Willem Alexander's younger brother, was gay. If this would have been true, theoratically it would have been possible that Holland one day would have had a gay king (a real queen).

Anyhow, Prince Constantijn rapidly got married to proof sort of that he was hetero, IMO. Judge by yourself looking at his wife. What hetero would ever want to marry that!?



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:38 am

MEA-707:

Obviously, we're talking about the same subject here. I could have sworn it was Constantijn who was supposed to be gay, but I could be misstaken.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:23 am

AAAAAAAAnyway

My condolances to the Dutch Royal Family.

QFF
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jcs17
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:14 pm

No dingy, I'm envious because I wanna be European!

Ummm...I don't think anyone is stopping you from leaving the United States. T
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Andreas
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:28 pm

Schoenorama: Imagine taking away that more than just ridiculous hat ...and the rest rest, too, while you're at it, then I think it gets a lot less problematic  Big grin

Oh and no! I don't think our Klaus is THAT Klaus!! Big grin

TWFirst: Yes I'm sure the Dutch would just love to have an immigrant drag queen on the throne...so do I as a matter of fact, given the ridiculous hats and dresses the Dutch queen usually wears (Sorry, dear Dutch, but you know, it's true, even my Dutch colleagues fully agree)...it couldn't get worse Big grin Big grin Big grin

As for topic here: Bernhard was a member of the NSDAP until he married Juliana in 1937. The Dutch obviously forgave him his Nazi past since he organised Dutch resistance from his London exile. After the war he was busy re-building the Dutch economy, he was member of several executive boards, but gave up when he was entangled in the Lockheed corruption affair. Since then he did some environmental work...and as we hear today, was indeed *gasp* well liked by the Dutch.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:33 am

>>Ummm...I don't think anyone is stopping you from leaving the United States.<<

Your fat ass is blocking the way.

And speaking of your ass, your signature implies you like to take it up the ass...
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Klaus
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Andreas

Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:21 am

Andreas: Oh and no! I don't think our Klaus is THAT Klaus!!

Ahem. No. Prince Claus was spelt differently. And he died in 2002.

Furthermore I have not and I won´t marry a queen. Of any kind.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
TACAA320
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:02 am

According with local press, he was involved in some corruption cases. And as long as I remember from the article, the last one was related to some aircrafts.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Andreas
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:14 pm

TACA: See Reply 20, posted by...yours truly  Big grin

Klaus: One never knows, you know... Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:42 am

Back in the late 60s early 70s, Lockheed has been bribing government left, right and center to buy their products, especialy the F-104. In Japan a government toppled over it, in Germany a former minister of defense got himself into deep trouble (Strauss), and in the Netherlands Prince Bernhard got involved. As a result he was forbidden to fly and his military status was taken from him.
Never the less, he was well liked by the Dutch WW2 veterans due to his role in WW2, including organising the Dutch resistance.

Jan
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TACAA320
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:05 am

Andreas.... I´m really sorry. Anybody can make a mistake.

Either way.... He was corrupted.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
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HeyMach
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:17 am

...his military status was taken from him.

His military rank was restored to him in 1991.

.... He was corrupted

The prince has, albeit posthumously, admitted his wrong doing in the Lockheed affair. Nevertheless, in my opinion, his positive achievements for the Netherlands far outweigh his wrong doing in the Lockheed affair. His achievements include leading the Dutch Resistance during the war, helping to rebuild Dutch industry and trade after the war and having a significant role in the establishment of the World Wildlife Fund. It is because of these achievements that he was well respected both at home and aboard.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:47 am

"It is because of these achievements that he was well respected both at home and aboard."

There is definitely not a single ugly bride nor a bad dead person!.

That's for sure.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
jcs17
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:34 am

And speaking of your ass, your signature implies you like to take it up the ass...

You could only wish! It's a mullet reference, sorry to ruin your fantasy.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
TWFirst
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RE: Prince Bernhard Of Netherlands Dies

Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:49 am

>>You could only wish! It's a mullet reference<<


SURE it is........


And dude, don't flatter yourself... the only fantasy I could possibly have about your ass is seeing a nuke shoved up it.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.

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