skyservice_330
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U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:16 am

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102355940950_97765140?hub=Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/06/deserter-refugee041206.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/12/06/768430-cp.html

I don't know how much press this has been getting anywhere else, but in Canada I have seen it on the news a few times. Really puts the Cdn. gov't in a bind. Should be worth watching to see how this gets resolved.

Regards.
 
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:29 am

We should accept them. We seem to accept so many refugees anyway from the 3rd world, many of them bogus. What harm is a few US draft dodgers?

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away. Let em in!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
WrenchBender
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:46 am

THEY ARE NOT DRAFT DODGERS.

COWARDLY DESERTERS, Yes. Draft Dodgers, No.

Send them back directly to a military court. They all volunteered to join the military and they understood that there is a price to pay for the benefits. Running away as soon as they may have to go in harms way, is the chicken way out. If they didn't want to play they shouldn't have joined.

If Canada accepts these claims as valid, it will do irreparable damage to our relationship with the US and will just open the gates for more of this.

One of my instructors a long time ago in boot camp told me this. 'You're here to defend democracy not to take part in it' and its true, take away the discipline and all you have left is a mob.

WrenchBender
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jamesag96
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:36 am

I agree with WrenchBender.
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B747-437B
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:46 am

We seem to accept so many refugees anyway from the 3rd world, many of them bogus.

AMEN!

These guys have a far more legitimate fear of persecution than a big chunk of the refugees that Canada admits every year solely on the basis of their nationality. Gee, if you're from xyz country you must be persecuted so come on in and help yourself to some welfare money. Heck, Canada grants pretty much blanket refugee status to deserters from any country that has mandatory military service.



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StarAC17
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:16 am

We should probably send him back to not make our US relations worse than it is but if we let this guy stay he won't be able to return to the US without getting in some serious military trouble.
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nwajetset
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:21 am

Ummm, there is no draft to dodge any longer.
 
StarAC17
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:28 am

Ummm, there is no draft to dodge any longer.

And you will never need one again, in the event of a military shortage make the war supporters go and fight.
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:38 am

If Canada accepts these claims as valid, it will do irreparable damage to our relationship with the US and will just open the gates for more of this.

No, it won't. Canada-US relations were not damaged by the thousands of draft dodgers that came here in the late 60's/early 70's.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
nwajetset
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:42 am

military shortage ha-that's an oxymoron down here toots
 
dl021
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:05 pm

YYz The difference is that this clown joined the military voluntarily and was not drafted. Not that I supported the draft dodgers (I do respect a genuine conscientious objector, as long as they serve somewhere, look at the Quaker medics).

This guy deserted seeking to avoid hazardous service and should be returned to US military custody by our NATO ally and neighbor, and then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and forced to serve his time in Iraq (if, that is, they don't shoot him for cowardice...not likely since they kind of swore off that after Slovik).
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LH423
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:21 pm

Being against the war in Iraq myself, I can see where he's coming from, but on the other hand he did join the military of his own free will knowing the risks that would be taken. According to Radio-Canada (the French language arm of the CBC), he fleed the US because he felt that the war was "immoral and illegal". While I completely agree with him on that, joining the military isn't really something that you can just leave when you're asked to do something you don't like.

I'm still riding the fence on this one, but I lean towards sending him back to face a military tribunal.

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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:40 pm

This guy deserted seeking to avoid hazardous service and should be returned to US military custody by our NATO ally and neighbor

Perhaps, but there is another side.

Maybe he joined up to fight for his country, not for Iraq's freedom. There is a difference.

Secondly, GWB himself was able to avoid Viet Nam because of his family connections. So why shouldnt middle class or poor kids have the same right to avoid service by coming to Canada?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:56 pm

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away.

Great.
Want some of our educated, english-speaking Vietnam war and Gulf war vets? The streets of San Francisco and Washington, DC and Boston and Houston, TX have more than their share of these sad men who America seems to have forgotten.

In any case, Jeremy Hinzman has a clear-cut case here.
He WILL face REAL persecution should he be returned to the US.
Would the US have returned a deserter from Saddam Hussein's army to Iraq to face a military tribunal? I think not.
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b757300
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:01 pm

He needs to be returned to the U.S. and then sent to Leavenworth for the rest of his life. Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense but as Dl021 pointed out, we haven't executed people for that since WWII.
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jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:09 pm

Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense but as Dl021 pointed out, we haven't executed people for that since WWII.

You just made a compelling case for granting Jeremy Hinzman political refugee status in Canada.

His lawyers just have to cite your call for capital punishment.

And then, of course, send you a thank you note.
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:11 pm

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away.

Great.
Want some of our educated, english-speaking Vietnam war and Gulf war vets? The streets of San Francisco and Washington, DC and Boston and Houston, TX have more than their share of these sad men who America seems to have forgotten.


The US draft dodgers in Canada are considered one of Cda's most successful immigrant groups.

He needs to be returned to the U.S. and then sent to Leavenworth for the rest of his life. Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense

There is no war. Just an internal Iraqi conflict. Not an American war. Besides, GWB deserted Viet Nam, so what's the difference?


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:27 pm

There is no war. Just an internal Iraqi conflict. Not an American war. Besides, GWB deserted Viet Nam, so what's the difference?

Nice argument, but I suspect that our political Mullahs and assorted GWB cheerleaders would find some macchiavelian way to paint Mr Hinzman as a commie pinko child molester worthy of the death penalty and GWB as a true war hero.

The US draft dodgers in Canada are considered one of Cda's most successful immigrant groups.

I have no doubt about that. How many "draft dodgers" did Canada accept? Are there any Canadian legislators from this demographic group today?
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dl021
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:27 pm

Even if yyz was correct in his characterization of President Bush's service as a fighter pilot being desertion (and he is not) that would not make Hinzmans actions legal or correct.

The plain fact of the matter is that he deserted in an effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status and faced the consequences of his convictions like a man instead of running away. If he does not return he should be stripped of his citizenship. If Canada grants him sanctuary there should be repercussions to the relationship.

He will not be sentenced with the death penalty, and any lawyer who tries to use that dodge will just be looking for publicity.
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:45 pm

The plain fact of the matter is that he deserted in an effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status and faced the consequences of his convictions like a man instead of running away.

I see no difference between desertion and getting Daddy to pull some strings to get you out of fighting in Viet Nam. It's all combat avoidance. GWB had an out -- why can't this kid? I hope we (Canada) accept him.

How many "draft dodgers" did Canada accept?

I keep hearing "tens of thousands". I have never heard an exact number.

Are there any Canadian legislators from this demographic group today?

Not federally. There is an American in the House of Commons with dual cit, but he's not a draft dodger.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
YVR2SAN
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:08 am

"effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status"

He did apply and was denied.

However I do not think Canada should allow him to stay, the guy joined a voluntary military and now he does not want to be in it. Sorry but he should not have joined.

If you join the military on the premise of fighting for your country thats just crock since most of the recent actions the US military has done really had nothing to do with protecting the US from harm.

This guy wants the benefits of the military but when the time came to do the job he volunteered for he chickened out and fled, that he should be punished for.

If he does get to stay in Canada then he should be arrested if he ever attempts to cross the US border.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:20 am

Coward

Deserter

Traitor

Period
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:27 am

Coward
Deserter
Traitor
Period


Are you talking about GWB or Jeremy Hinzman? They both avoided combat.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:37 am

Yyz717: "Are you talking about GWB or Jeremy Hinzman? They both avoided combat"

I didn't think Dubya ran off to Canada to avoid his obligations as a man? I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, coward or traitor.

Nuf said . . .


[Edited 2004-12-07 16:43:12]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
707CMF
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:39 am

Maybe he just wanted mapple leaf syrup ?

Cheers,

707
 
jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:54 am

I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, coward or traitor.

He had a rich Daddy to get him out of deep doo-doo when the going got tough.

Does Hinzman?

I doubt it.

Dubya is a rich brat who got a permanent "Get out of Jail Free" card in the monopoly board game of life. I call someone like that a big coward.

If you're so concerned about the loss of this American soldier to Canada, I have a suggestion: Sign up for Uncle Sam and put your own butt on the line for Mr. Allawi.
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SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:02 am

First off everyone there are two important definitions you need to understand:

Persecution is harassment that causes suffering esp. because of principles or religious beliefs.

Prosecution is the application of legal action against a lawbreaker.

While these words have been used by different posters interchangeably, there is a gigantic difference. While these three former soldiers may face some isolated persecution by private citizens, neighbors, former comrades-in-arms etc. those who persecute them may be prosecuted because it is against the law.

On the other hand, what these individuals face, for certain is Prosecution for crimes committed in the United States of America. Canada basically has two choices, deport persons wanted for crimes in the US or refuse to do so. The latter is likely to have all sorts of unpleasant ramifications, one of which will have to be the decision as to whether or not Canada and the USA have an extradition treaty between them.

These are not conscientious objectors. Their morals, their personal ethical codes and religious belief system permitted them to volunteer to serve in the ARMED forces. It permitted them to shoot their rifles at man-shaped targets. It permitted them to jam their bayonets violently into the "bellies" of man-shaped training devices. It permitted them to learn basic forms of martial arts all aimed at crippling or killing human beings. In the case of Hinzman it permitted him to go once to Afghanistan, ostensibly to kill or attempt to kill human beings.

His morals permitted him to strut around in his jump boots, wearing his wings and all the other goodies that come with being Airborne. It permitted him to sneer "leg" in your direction because you were not Airborne It permitted him to collect a paycheck from the taxpayers.

And now he is a conscientious objector. Oh, wait - he isn't because not even a Canadian court could swallow that.

There are two things that any person of average intelligence should realize when considering donning a military uniform. One is that you might get killed. The other is that you might have to kill other people. Very young children are bright enough to get this!

I probably have more sympathy for these guys than most of you who never served in the military could even imagine. Nearing the end of my (voluntary) military service I was offered a choice - go back to Vietnam or leave active duty about three months early. I chose to leave active duty and the decision did not take very long to reach. If I'd not been given the choice, if I'd simply been ordered back to Vietnam I'd have gone without questioning the order. It was just one part of the deal I'd agreed to nearly five years earlier. Military service is a very big decision and a serious committment. Just like any other contract there are legal repercussions for not honoring your word.

The appropriate course for a soldier who comes to disagree with the cause is to leave service at his next legal opportunity to do so. Desertion has always carried a high penalty (I'd love to know what Canadian law allows in that area.) and deserters have always been held in low esteem. A step above traitors perhaps, but well below those who never served at all, below even draft dodgers.

So keep them if you like them, Canada. They've already shown you their colors, you get no surprises with these guys.


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jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:27 am

Prosecution is the application of legal action against a lawbreaker.

I see.

So when an Iraqi soldier showed up at the door of the INS, say circa 1991, and asked for refugee status because Iraqi law at the time would have had him beheaded for refusing to, say, be part of the invasion of Kuwait, you would pay homage to this law and send him back.

I mean, it IS the law.

There have been numerous cases of Saudi women and their lovers who claimed refugee status in the US because under Saudi law, she would have been stoned to death and he would have been beheaded. Again, it IS the law in Saudi Arabia. One of our chief allies in the supposed war against terror.

What would you do? Send them back in a nod to the LAW?

Its not like this guy suddenly walked out of his commitment in Afghanistan. He objected to the war in Iraq, an objection that tens of millions of Americans have.
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yyz717
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:43 am

I didn't think Dubya ran off to Canada to avoid his obligations as a man? I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, coward or traitor.

No, Dubya got Daddy to pull some strings. What's the difference? Avoidance of conflict is avoidance of conflict. Period.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:25 am

Since I'd rather not tempt the moderators to ban me, let me just say that Jaysit uses words in a less-than-truthful way to discredit statements he cannot refute. I'd advise that you read his words with care.

Attention all readers, what he did is compare the present day US legal system directly with that of Saudia Arabia and Iraq under Saddam Hussein. He did this in an effort to discredit reply #26. It is what we, in the USA call a "cheap shot" and thinking people have no respect for it. He is not exactly trying to make you believe that these three deserters will be stoned or beheaded if they are extradited to the US but rather, he is trying to attach that emotion to the issue as if you were a jury. In effect, he has so little respect for your intellect that he is appealing to your emotions instead.

There is not an issue in the world that cannot be muddied by dragging endless (and meritless) "yeah but" objections into it. As you cannot expect a lawyer to do this for you, let me give you some straight talk. It is not necessary to solve all the world's problems simultaneously! It is probably possible to solve the issue of the three deserters in Canada without solving the whole Arab-Israeli conflict at the same time. We can attempt to balance the Federal budget without solving cold-fusion simultaneously. It is usualy best to solve your problems one at a time.

Jaysit from your profile I'd surmise that you have not served in combat. For that reason you are not qualified to pass any sort of judgement on these people. Yes, we have freedom of speech in this country and that gives you the right to make non-qualified statements. It also gives me the right to call them for what they are - liberal sour grapes.

May I remind you that as an attorney you are an officer of the court. It is reprehensible that you should argue publicly in favor of cherry-picking the laws to be obeyed.


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WrenchBender
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:27 am

SlamClick, Canadian Military Law states-
Desertion
Offence
88. (1) Every person who deserts or attempts to desert is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if the person committed the offence on active service or under orders for active service, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment and, in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.

Jaysit, No we don't have an extradition treaty with Iraq we do with the USA, except for Capital cases.

Hand them back with our apologies for even listening to them.

WrenchBender
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SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:43 am

Thanks WrenchBender it sounds pretty much like our laws on the subject, minus, of course our allowance for the death penalty. As has been mentioned above, we have not applied the death penalty since the execution of private Eddie Slovik in 1945. Private Slovik was, in fact the first deserter to be executed since 1865 and his execution is widely regarded in this country, by military and civilian alike as having been a terrible mistake.

Personally I would not mind seeing the US DoD agree not to seek the death penalty as a condition for their extradition. It is obvious to anyone other than a mad-dog US-hater that we have no intention to seek it anyway.

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jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:52 am

Slamclick:

You have a major chip on your soldier. Get rid of it. And don't assume anything about anyone. I graduated as an ROTC officer and I believe I know enough about military law and human rights law as applied in this country.

Oh, and while you're at it, try and have a discussion with someone without resorting to asinine labels. You come off as a rather sad bitter old man who puts words in people's mouths because you're incapable of rebutting an argument.

May I remind you that as an attorney you are an officer of the court. It is reprehensible that you should argue publicly in favor of cherry-picking the laws to be obeyed.

And may I remind you that the distinction between cultural persecution and official prosecution is a fine one. US law understands that. You however do not.

Again answer my question: Would you send back a person seeking refugee status from Iraq or Saudi Arabia in deference to their laws? If not, then why do you seek the same from Canada, especially if a case for capital punishment can be made against Mr. Hintzman right here in the United States? Deserters are subject to a tribunal that can apply the death penalty, life imprisonment without parole. Mr. Hintzman has a valid fear of being subjected to the death penalty or life without parole. This is not a liberal versus a conservative issue. Its a valid human rights issue, irrespective of what country we are dealing with.

Wrenchbender: Your laws apply to Canadian deserters, not US deserters. And Canadian extradition treaties are subject to Canadian jurisprudence that has found time and time again that extradition treaties play second fiddle to human rights.

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jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:02 am

There is not an issue in the world that cannot be muddied by dragging endless (and meritless) "yeah but" objections into it. As you cannot expect a lawyer to do this for you, let me give you some straight talk. It is not necessary to solve all the world's problems simultaneously! It is probably possible to solve the issue of the three deserters in Canada without solving the whole Arab-Israeli conflict at the same time.

What are you babbling about?
Where does the Arab-Israeli conflict appear in this?

Get a grip on reality.

Your simplified view of the world may suit PlaySkool but not the reality of a man's freedom hanging in the balance.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:38 am

Jaysit be advised that the law Wrenchbender posted was in response for my request for exactly that. I asked just out of curiousity; US and Canadian cultures seem to be quite divergent on this issue, I was curious as to their law.

Now, as to your demand that I answer your question: I should just say no because the question was, once again, a cheap shot, an attempt to muddy an issue on which it has no bearing. Why does it have no bearing? In the first place because the two scenarios you presented included not only capital punishment, but by methods (stoning and beheading) that are repugnant to western culture and are, in themselves, part of the difficulty between the US and the Arab world. Further, even if it was more relevant, there is simply no linkage between the present deserter case and any other event such as you describe.

I am not going to answer your question for another reason. You are a ranter.

I posted (reply#26) a calm and cogent set of observations that were very much on-target for this topic. You could have chosen to ignore them. You did not. You could have chosen to debate them. You did not. Instead you threw in a pair of theoreticals in an apparent effort to discredit me. One might wonder why.

When I called you on that here was your response:

"You have a major chip on your soldier" Whoa! Generality Warning!
"Get rid of it." Are you billing me for that advice?
And my favorite:
"Oh, and while you're at it, try and have a discussion with someone without resorting to asinine labels. " Followed by:
"You come off as a rather sad bitter old man "

Are you trying for the Nobel Prize for Irony here? Do you read what you write?
"Old man?" Damn, there goes your credibility as a liberal. You are supposed to be tolerant of us worthless, run-out old people.

"I graduated as an ROTC officer and . . ." Sorry pal, but that confers no more respect than GWB's National Guard service. If you served on active duty say so. If you did so in a time of war, say so. If you served in combat say so. Not all who "wear the uniform" are equal. Having fought the battles of the ROTC parade ground in no way qualifies you to stand toe-to-toe with people who have actually served in Combat, whether it is Hinzman, Kerry, - or me. I respect your education and native intelligence but this is a club of which you do not seem to be a member. Tell us that you were a JAG officer on active duty that is another matter.

In re-reading my original post (#26) I cannot see anything there that should have set you off.

Hmmmm.





Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
jaysit
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RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:45 am

Now, as to your demand that I answer your question: I should just say no because the question was, once again, a cheap shot, an attempt to muddy an issue on which it has no bearing.

Your refusal to answer my question only shows who is muddying the waters with claptrap about cultural values, western mores, etc., etc.
This is a legal matter.
End of story.
Mr. Hinzman fears a legal repercussion of prosecutorial extremism in the form of capital punishment here in the US. It is a valid fear. Whether it comes in the form of a lethal injection or a guillotine, is not the point. The point here is his basic case for political refugee status.

I posted (reply#26) a calm and cogent set of observations that were very much on-target for this topic. You could have chosen to ignore them. You did not. You could have chosen to debate them. You did not. Instead you threw in a pair of theoreticals in an apparent effort to discredit me. One might wonder why.

I did debate them, but apparently you cannot fathom an argument in which your points are discredited.
As I stated earlier, your argument about legal prosecution versus persecution is a hopeless one, because many political refugees right here in the US are fleeing persecution masqueraded as legal prosecution in their home countries. Thus, the persecution versus prosecution distinction does not hold. What you perceive as a valid law, may be perceived by those who are unfairly subject to it as persecution. US cases at the federal district level and the appellate have stated as much because our judicial system recognizes the concept of an 'unfair' law. On, and if you are unaware of a Socratic argument, then thats your loss.

Oh, and while you're at it, try and have a discussion with someone without resorting to asinine labels. " Followed by:
"You come off as a rather sad bitter old man "


That was intentional.
Two can play at the same game.
Once you open the doors, you laid yourself out for the same caricature you apply to others.

You are supposed to be tolerant of us worthless, run-out old people.

Where did you get that idea from?
I have no tolerance for obnoxious behavior, irrespective of one's age. If you want deference, try one the LifeTime channel on TV.

As far as my service record goes, that's not even an issue here. And, no, I do not intend to disclose its details on a public forum filled with people who are hell-bent on harassment outside this forum. I've been through that already. I only brought it up to show that I am fully conversant in the details of military legal issues. As far as I am concerned anyone irrespective of their background can comment on the issue of Mr. Hinzman's refugee status. Your active duty status at any time in your life does not put you in some exalted status by which you and you alone can comment.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:17 pm

Jaysit: "If you're so concerned about the loss of this American soldier to Canada, I have a suggestion: Sign up for Uncle Sam and put your own butt on the line for Mr. Allawi"

I guess you better read my profile before you run your mouth - if you had bothered you'd see that I did my time - 24 years worth - and honorably at that. I didn't run away from responsibilities as a man . . . I've been in combat . . . it wasn't on the list of my top 10 things to do, but I volunteered for the service and understood the ramifications of doing so . . . when my turn came, I went, proudly, with my head high - I didn't run off somewhere like a whimpering child seeking refuge in a foreign country.

Hinzman is a coward and a deserter, period. He ought to be prosecuted.

All of the innocuous babble coming from your posts is beginning to bore me.



FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:45 pm

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy, and can only hope that the Canadian goverment gets him the hell out of their country at the earliest possible time.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?

Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:53 pm

Send the deserters to Leavenworth, Liberals to Canada.

They all want to go, SO? Let em' go.

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