commander_rabb
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The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:57 am

"Since the end of World War II, Western Europe has been widely viewed as a bastion of internationalism, moderation and social progressiveness — a haven of affluent, eco-conscious citizens in stark contrast to the perceived unilateralism and parochialism of the United States."

Guess there is a new lightning rod of hate. Interesting observations and thoughts in the following article.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=289575&page=1

Hate certainly has no borders these days.
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:13 am

But across Western Europe, immigrant and civil rights experts say a xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim wave appears to be gripping a region once famed for its tolerance.

Oh please. Europe was kind enough to let these people in. If Europe was truly "xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim", there would have been no immigration at all.

There is fault on all sides. Europe is guilty of letting in too many Muslims at once without a plan to integrate them. Muslims are guilty of not doing enough to integrate and secularize.

Perhaps the answer is to stop Muslim immigration into the EU to give the current Muslim minorities a chance to integrate.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
iakobos
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:46 am

Islamophobic wave ???
more like two ripples in the bathtub, but if it helps the carrier make sell its advert time, why not.

Interesting development in France (well over 5 million Muslims and some 1,685 mosques):
the government has taken some radical measures, in conjunction with "moderate" Muslim organizations, in order to put some order in the mess (my words) and eradicate the unchecked preaching of radical Islam.
(Salafists of Wahhabi obedience, reported to be active in 40 mosques)

- it will create a Foundation for Islam in France, an organ comprising both local administrators and members of (French) Muslim organizations
- the Foundation will oversee the formation of future Imams AND control and channelize the foreign funds (i.e. from Morocco, Algeria, Saudia, Gulf States)
- Imams (presently a little over 1,200, of which 75% are foreigners and 33% do not speak French) will have to follow a cursus at a French university
- the theologic formation will be done in France by one of the 2 or 3 approved Muslim organizations.

...séparer le bon grain de l'ivraie...
The idea, and this is an innovation, is to actively control their resources and make sure that no hothead ever gets close enough to a microphone.

An initiative to follow ?



 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:51 am

Ironic how of all people, it's 'our very own' Commander who posts this article.

The title of this thread is misleading. Even the article linked doesn't reach the conclusion the title suggests. Tell me Commander, couldn't you at least have added a question mark to the end of the title?
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:33 am

Absolutely top-hole, sir, with a ying and yang and yippiedeedoo and a question mark too!

Happy (?)
 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:53 am

Not really. The title hasn't changed. Why don't you delete it and start all over again?

The board rules are pretty clear about false or malicious statements. The title of this thread clearly falls into the first category and possibly even the second!
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:08 am

Then suggest deletion. If you dive into the article you will see that there must be some sort of increase of "Islamophobia" to have a report posted by abcnews.com. I realize that the topic is a touchy one for those who feel that Europe is clean from this type of thing but honestly, the article has some merit. And I stand by the title of this thread based on the content of the article.

Now, care to offer something tangible on the article? Out is it too stinging a subject that would rather be swept under the rug? Like actions of decades past?
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:14 am

"There is definitely a rise in Islamophobia across Europe," said Liz Fekete, deputy director of the London-based Institute of Race Relations. "Muslims collectively are being blamed for the attacks on the World Trade Center, and there is a general punitive climate toward Muslims. This has manifested itself in a variety of ways. On the ground, there has been a rise in racial violence on Muslim targets across Europe. And the biggest problem is that the scale of the problem has not been acknowledged."

I will just let this quote from the report back up the appropriate title of my thread.

And of course the last sentence is a very alarming one which I agree with.
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:20 am

Who Cares???????????

Let's play spin the wheel ..... shall we?

The wheel has each and everyone of the countries that support terrorism on it.

This wheel just happens to be full of countries in the Middle East! ... and other parts of the planet. Imagine that!

Other countries on the planet Earth that have had enough of those who want to harm North America, Europe, etc, ....."THE FREE WORLD" get to spin the wheel.

What ever country the wheel lands on .... GETS BOMBED!!!!!

It doesn't matter whether or not they were responsible for an act of terror or not .... they still GET BOMBED!!!!

Untill they're all gone .............

Oops, what were you saying????


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
iakobos
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:29 am

It is always risky to believe everything you read, especially if it makes you feel happy and tempts you to spread it around under a hot rod title.

In this particular case, the article is titled "is Islam endangering Europeanness ?"
In a few lines, the article goes from London to Paris to the Netherlands to Belgium and back, covering 4 years of "events", without actually reporting anything of substance, but unfortunately coming up with blatant mistakes, if not straight lies.
How would you rate an article like that CRabb ?

Is journalism still teached in the US of A nowadays or is the access to the profession totally free ?



 
Hamfist
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:38 am

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

Whatever is the case, there are not many within Islam who are giving the rest of us much of a reason to embrace them! I've spent a few months in the region and I know that the radical-minded terrorists are the minority, however, I also realize that the vast majority of the good people are too apathetic to do anything about those giving their religion and culture a bad name.
 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:41 am

""There is definitely a rise in Islamophobia across Europe," said Liz Fekete"

That's the opinion of one of the persons interviewed, Commander. Even ABC News hasn't simply copied that statement into their title. They have been much more cautious, as you should have been.

Now, care to offer something tangible on the article?"

Fellow user Iakobos described it perfectly; ripples in a bathtub, that's all it is.

"And of course the last sentence is a very alarming one which I agree with."

What is really alarming is that someone who works for the Pentagon believes this bullshit!

Wasn't there any islamophobia in the U.S. after 9/11? Of course there was! Now this doesn't mean that it is a good thing, but these things always happen when someone from a minority commits a political murder or terrorist act. But we shouldn't give it too much attention. 14 Muslim schools and buildings attacked in Holland might look like a real big thing, but do you know how many people it takes to actually perform such an attack? Just one. With just one lunatic, crazy teenager with raging hormones or a "White Power" right-winger one can perform an attack on either a Muslim school, a Jewish Cementary or a Gay bar!

Do incidents against Muslims take place in Europe? Of course! Is there a rise? Probably. Is there a "Rising Wave" as your personal title suggests? Certainly not!
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:41 am

Guess who don't have a "Phobia" .........

A Lot of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like Me.


Read between the lines ............. and you will find ..................


The Giant Has Been Woken UP!!!


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:46 am

Mr Spaceman:

"The wheel has each and everyone of the countries that support terrorism on it."

You might be into a 'little' supprise regarding one particular country's name on that wheel of yours!
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
pilotaydin
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:50 am

what do u want us to do? the entire us military is in Iraq and can't stop them...what the heck am i supposed to do as an unarmed muslim? come on....... dont call us apathetic, if an innocent muslim didn't cause the problem, you can't go expecting them to HAVe to do something about it, and if they choose not to, bc i dont know what i can do, then that gives u no right to just write us off as apathetic....

embrace us as PEOPLE, dont presort us by religion and wait for us to do something that gains ur approval concerning my religion, to approve me for embrace... when i lived in the us, black, white, cubans, i was everyone's friend, i didnt expect different performance from different people based on their religions....nor origin.... so why should i stand to have that done against me??

The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:52 am

There is "probably" a rise? "Probably"?

Perhaps you may not know what a rising wave is? But there is most certainly a rise in "Islamophobia". Wave, ripple, rising, sprouting, which ever word suits you.

Spliting hairs over semantics won't wash away the hatred or the numerous examples stated in the report will it?

Thanks for confirming a lot of what the report says. Especially the last sentence.

Just turn your heads away. God help us.
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:06 am

Hello Schoenorama,

I agree. My eyes are wide  Wow! open ................ but, that country is a free country, and they have the power to kill those who are really "F" UP!!!

My friend. I Hate ...with all my heart!!! How this planets is covered by killers of freedom. I really do hope that one day ..... "THEY DROP THE BOMB!!!" Again, and again, and again.

Do you believe that the giant will ever stop hunting for peace???

Those who want to kill others, while being watched by the wrath of power at it's most ....... will all die!! You wait and see ...... Freedom will kill evil!


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
iakobos
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:18 am

If God there is, I guess he must be seriously wondering what to do with some in his flock. Help him.

The "wave" is your invention CRabb, a special effect to make it more savoury.

The so-called article is an amalgam made of truncated opinions taken out of context, events that have no correlation not even chronologically, and a lie or two (at best unverified tips) and only one brief report of an actual and verified event.

I cannot believe this has been written by a journalist sane in his mind.
Who knows, perhaps there are readers for this kind of trash.

There is another and in this case interesting thread on the subject, where decent human beings share their differing opinions in a convivial way.





 
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yyz717
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:24 pm

embrace us as PEOPLE, dont presort us by religion and wait for us to do something that gains ur approval concerning my religion, to approve me for embrace...

The West is already embracing Muslims, courtesy of massive Muslim immigration. However, I don't see any non-Muslim immigration into Muslim nations. Hence, it appears it's Muslims who need to do some embracing.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bahadir
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:38 pm

Aydin,
it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in.
At least US is consistent in terms of the policies they follow, wrong or right. Europe has been the biggest supporter of radical Islam and PKK.

Don't get me started on the Cyrus joke, where the Greek Cypriots were the uncooperative ones in the latest poll, but they got into EU anyway.

Let's see what kind of criteria Romania and Bulgaria will have to satisfy compared to Turkey.

Earthbound misfit I
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:42 pm

If you dive into the article you will see that there must be some sort of increase of "Islamophobia" to have a report posted by abcnews.com.

Since when does Commander_Rabb believe anything written by the liberal media??? I thought The Truth is to be found only on gop.com, the White House press releases... and the Bible of course.

Amusing, that concerns over hatred against Muslim are coming from a die-hard supporter of Bush "The Crusader".
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:53 pm

Amusing, that concerns over hatred against Muslim are coming from a die-hard supporter of Bush "The Crusader".

That's pretty arrogant of you. Guess you don't know me afterall. None of you do. You just assume.

And we all know about the letters in the word assume.



Got pins?

 
LHSebi
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:03 pm

it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in.
At least US is consistent in terms of the policies they follow, wrong or right.


What the hell?! You think that the EU is "afraid" to let Turkey in because the majority of its population is muslim? Gimme a break...Perhaps if the economic situations were a bit similar to the other nations in the EU, then they wouldn't be so scared!  Insane

So you are basically saying, it's better for the US to keep bombing nations that aren't "free" and that are a "direct threat" to the US, as opposed to admitting that a mistake has been made and they should stop to clean up the mess? Wonderful.....

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
qr332
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:07 pm

The West is already embracing Muslims, courtesy of massive Muslim immigration. However, I don't see any non-Muslim immigration into Muslim nations. Hence, it appears it's Muslims who need to do some embracing.

Open your eyes wider then. The UAE has a very small percentage of Emiratis, most are Expats, same in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, Oman and Kuwait. There are hundreds of westerners here in the Middle East, all working to get money, and living a lifestyle that they are happy with. Gulf states do not even embrace their fellow Arabs to become citizens, why would they invite non-Arabs and non-Muslims?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:24 pm


I wish have been living in Europe. Believe me, i could live my faith better than in many other Arabic, said to be Muslim countries !!!

Next flight TUN-YUL Tunisair A330-243.
 
OYRJA
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:59 pm

it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in.

Hey there Yank. Do you even know what it's all about? It has nothing to do with religion. It's all about humanity and human rights. And Turkeyt are obviosly not interested to do something about their human right problem as the EU want them to do. The EU have a thing called rules about that. If you can't follow the rules you can not enter. It is as simple as that.

That's pretty arrogant of you. Guess you don't know me afterall. None of you do. You just assume.

And we all know about the letters in the word assume.


Haha! Talking about being arrogant huh Rabb? You are the arrogant person here. Do you know us then? I guess not. So you can't judge us on what you read from an american newspaper. So I suggest that you get your ass over here to Europe and see it with your own eyes.

 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:15 pm

Commander_Rabb:

"Perhaps you may not know what a rising wave is? But there is most certainly a rise in "Islamophobia". Wave, ripple, rising, sprouting, which ever word suits you."

There's a fundamental difference between the expression "Rising Wave" and a simple "rise". Unfortunately, either you don't see it or you have used the title on purpose to mislead. As said, even the article doesn't reach the conclusion you seem to reach.


"Spliting hairs over semantics won't wash away the hatred or the numerous examples stated in the report will it?"

This is not about splitting hairs but rather about a fundamental difference of the problem of Islamophobia. The problem does exist but the cases described in the article certainly don't indicate a "Rising Wave" your title suggest.

"Thanks for confirming a lot of what the report says. Especially the last sentence. "

Clearly, we have a different perception of what's actually going on and, most important of all, what the causes are and what should be done about it. The latest cases of Islamophobia are directly related to current affairs. I maintain there probably is an increase, but there certainly isn't a "Rising Wave" as your paranoid title suggests. Lets keep both feet on the ground and not get influenced by a handfull of Right-Wing Fanatics and stupid teenagers who've attacked Muslims Schools and Building.

Mr Spaceman:

"I agree. My eyes are wide Wow! open ................ but, that country is a free country, and they have the power to kill those who are really "F" UP!!!"

That all depends on one's definition on who is F-- Up or not. Was Iraq F-- Up?

"My friend. I Hate ...with all my heart!!! How this planets is covered by killers of freedom. I really do hope that one day ..... "THEY DROP THE BOMB!!!" Again, and again, and again."

So you hate, with all your heart? And you hope 'they' will kill them? Doesn't that put you in the same position as 'them' who hate you and want to kill you?

"Do you believe that the giant will ever stop hunting for peace???"

So invading another country over bogus reasons is hunting for peace? So overthrowing a democratically elected foreign regime, is hunting for peace? So actively supporting a known dictator famous for boiling his pollitical opponents in hot water [Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan] is hunting for peace, right?

"Those who want to kill others, while being watched by the wrath of power at it's most ....... will all die!! "

Aren't you contradicting yourself know? Didn't you state that you hoped that one day, 'they' will drop the bomb, again and again? Doesn't that mean that you too want to kill others?

"Freedom will kill evil! "

Is that the title of the latest Star Wars episode?
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
galaxy5
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:45 pm

I would have thought it to be the other way around, all the times i go to Europe it seems the Muslim influence is spreading by leaps and bounds, i would have thought Europe would soon be named Eurabia.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
iakobos
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:56 pm

Bahadir,

If your skewed and primitive vision of politics had to be applied to physics, I am quite sure with half a wing you would never have left the ground.

The day your country will show that it cares equally for all its citizens, irrespective of their ethnic or religious background, and restrict the authority of the military where it belongs, i.e. in their barracks, that day will be worth to be remembered.

What is thrown in here pêle-mêle under the idea of a so-called "islamophobia" is a poor man's soup made of
- anti-immigration sentiment (by far the main ingredient)
- anti-multiculturalism (i.e. the excess of multiculturalism)
- an allergy to religious radicalism (including but not limited to Islam)

This is the context.


 
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scbriml
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:32 pm

Commander Rabid, Do you believe everything you read in the press?

We are so intolerant of minorities here in the UK  Insane

We let an Islamic extremist (Abu Hamza) preach western hatred in public and spend months debating if we should arrest him or not.

I live in a small town (50,000) which has a large Muslim community (we even have a Mosque in town!) There have not been any anti-Muslim incidents, let alone a "rising wave" of Islamophobia.

Perhaps you should try looking outside your gun-sights?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
qr332
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:52 pm

Ts-ior,
I wish have been living in Europe. Believe me, i could live my faith better than in many other Arabic, said to be Muslim countries !!!

Im interested to know why you have taken this opinion.

Scbriml,
Commander Rabid, Do you believe everything you read in the press?

Nice to see I was not the only one who made the connection with his nickname  Wink/being sarcastic
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
vneplus5
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:21 pm

Guys, why do take Rabb's bait every single time?

Haven't you learned yet? He just says these things so the Europeans, and to a lesser extent our Arabic members, get all worked up. At which point, by about the 30th post, he will come into the discussion calling us "pissy europeans".

It's the same every time. Please dont take the bait.

Cheers.
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:32 pm

There are hundreds of westerners here in the Middle East, all working to get money, and living a lifestyle that they are happy with. Gulf states do not even embrace their fellow Arabs to become citizens, why would they invite non-Arabs and non-Muslims?

Then why won't the UAE allow non-Muslim Arabs to take citizenship? This is racism.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Yazoo
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:15 am

I got a question for everyone here!

How to deal with people who come from, Supposedly "Muslim" Countries, but who are not really religious (Young Students, usually very open and westernized) who melt perfectly into the local culture. I myself know quite a few of them, and It can be hard to believe that they come from muslim countries.

Cause the way I see it is that some members here are implying that they should close all immigration from Countries with an overwhelmingly muslim population.
Purple Pride!
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:26 am

>> Schoenorama ...........

So you hate, with all your heart? And you hope 'they' will kill them? Doesn't that put you in the same position as 'them' who hate you and want to kill you?

No it doesn't. I'm not the Jealous one! My world was attacked on 911, and those responsible will be killed sooner and later.

So invading another country over bogus reasons is hunting for peace? So overthrowing a democratically elected foreign regime, is hunting for peace? So actively supporting a known dictator famous for boiling his pollitical opponents in hot water [Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan] is hunting for peace, right?

What bogus reasons??????????????? Cause & Effect. The giant is awake! If you attack a country, especially one that's very powerful - the most powerful in terms of weapons - then you'll get what you deserve! A bomb dropped on your head!

Aren't you contradicting yourself know? Didn't you state that you hoped that one day, 'they' will drop the bomb, again and again? Doesn't that mean that you too want to kill others?

Once again, my world was attacked. An act of WAR will be responded too.

Is that the title of the latest Star Wars episode?

Obviously, I've wasted my time trying to get through to you. I'm talking about real life, and you want to site movies! Grow up!

"The Most Powerful Nation On This Planet Is At WAR!!!"

You can't say anything that will stop that. I'm very proud that the free world is fighting back. Sorry but that's life! If you attack America, where I live, you will be attacked back! That's very simple to understand! Do you get it???

If that rubs you wrong .....TO BAD!!!!

You must take your freedom for granted!


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
bahadir
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:37 am

LHSebi,
no I am not claiming that Turkey is being singled out because it's a Muslim country. There are other factors of course, but being Muslim and having 70 mil. people is a factor. Let's face it, the percentage of people in Germany, France, Holland think that as soon as Turkey joins EU the floodgates of Gasterbeiters will open is much higher than the people who think "there will be some influx but not as much as people think".

Yes, Turkey has/had human rights problems. I am not denying it.
I am extremely pissed off about the stupid excuses that EU puts before the Dec. 17th. Of course, let us not forget about the fact that PKK.org is still hosted by a German company despite the fact that German government considers PKK a terrorist organization.

Dutch woke up from their 20-30 years of indifference and decided to declare PKK a terrorist organization just this week. Thumbs down all the way..

Iakobos,
the military would have stayed in their barracks if whoever supported PKK for 20 years didn't support it. If someone decided to uprise against Greek government and wanted part of your country, do you think that you'd stay in your barracks? Every country has the right to defend herself, that's what Turkey has been trying to do for last 20 years. Stop supporting terrorists and then Turkey will not have to spend all her resources for the low intensity war.

I grew up in an extremely ethnic environment in Istanbul; went to school with Armenians, Greeks and Jews. I think Istanbul has been a wonderful place to experience all these cultures, so I know a thing or two about the ethnic spectrum of people in Turkey.
Earthbound misfit I
 
LH526
Crew
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:52 am

in my eyes society and politicians nearly all over euoper fear the same inevitable facts:

They all want to close their countries for immigrants .. they don't want more islamics or whatever to enter their country, to live here (From whatever reason, may it be cultural or financial or whatever). But they can't do so because it is politicaly incorrect to do so. Whenever you say "no" to immigrants you fear being called racist or even fascist!

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
prosa
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:24 am

I grew up in an extremely ethnic environment in Istanbul; went to school with Armenians, Greeks and Jews.

Armenians living in Turkey? I'm rather surprised, isn't there tremendous animosity between the groups?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
pilotaydin
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:18 am

"Armenians living in Turkey? I'm rather surprised, isn't there tremendous animosity between the groups?"

those were the older days, Turks and Armenians are getting along a lot better now. It takes time believe me, most of the Armeninans i met in the usa said i was the first turk they met, and they couldn't believe they were taught to hate me. They said this...education...is the key, good education doesn't come from good schools, but from good people.

The Turkish PM had a recent aviation related deal with the Armenian government. He signed a deal to increase the numbers of flight slots between the two countries. I think this is a good step towards the EU. I won't stand and let people on here bash my nation's efforts.

My cousin is in high school, and they have a new class that teaches about Kurds, the misconception of a kurd and a PKK terrorist. I think some of you need to take this class. If you think the military runs things in Turkey to where people have no rights, you are ever so wrong. President Erdogan is taking power away from the military every day in this country, you should see the headlines and the news reports about the military, things you would never see 10 years ago. Yet you all just write us off as not caring or blocked country... Everyone here wants to be part of the EU, we are all trying hard, even small undeveloped business' in turkey are trying to adopt ISO standards and equate to European levels. We have churches and sinagogs in Turkey, i dont see anyone praising us for having this, isnt turkey the most westernized muslim country? We can keep our traditions and religion, and also supply a western life to those who want it. A kurd or a turk can go to school here. There is NO such law that stops kurds from going to a school here at all. But if they are fearful of being discriminated against, then they need to learn about Turks. Most of our population is extremely friendly and caring, you'll know this if you went on holiday to south turkey in your lifetime. When Turkey beat senegal in the world cup, there were 100s of kurds in the streets celebrating some my friends, let me guess, someone is going to say the military forced them to right? because that's a cheap shot...
Also, the ETA in Spain are considered terrorists, just yesterday 7 bombs went off.... but are all the Basques terrorists? This is the same thing with Kurds and Turks. I am sorry, we can't just break off a piece of an established country that took years to create and give it to a handfull of terrorists. Why is it that the European countries are slowly listening to Turkey about this PKK thing?...because in holland they found a PKK training camp, teaching how to make bombs and kill...it's not all black and white, i hope some of you are old enough to realize this. YES i am like bahadir...we did treat some kurds bad, but things are changing, and i have shown you above how. If the Spanish dont want to break off a piece of spain and give it to ETA and let them do as they wish, why should we create a Kurdistan for PKK terrorists?

Every country has had their share of issues, but given the position of turkey and the circumstances of history, you expect turkey to be as developed and filtered and fair as somewhere as SWEDEN? It's easy to be swedish, what hardship have they gone through lately. Look at where Turkey is and give us a damn break! North of Iraq! West of Iran! East of a clean developed Europe, home to a settlement of almost 50% of the Bibble's historical sites, and then Jews, then muslims, also Ottomans, and Greeks that once had parts of our land....do some of you realize the socio-economic situation that turkey was developed from? 3 major religions and dozens of civilizations have ruled this gateway... Look at how complex turkey's history has been! For god's sake they came from AUSTRALIA and NZ to attack us in WWI ! And you expect a stable region with things flowing well after the history and the past of our geogrphic location?? We are in the middle of everything, except 9/11, that was the farthest disaster yet. And still we took a toll for that too with our economy.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
qr332
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:18 am

Then why won't the UAE allow non-Muslim Arabs to take citizenship? This is racism.

No it isnt. They dont allow anyone to take citizenship, period. Not Muslim or non-Muslim. I have noticed this trend of your where you speak bullshit, you get proved wrong and you then try to make pathetic arguements.

Also, read properly:
Gulf states do not even embrace their fellow Arabs to become citizens, why would they invite non-Arabs and non-Muslims?

Very few people actually get Gulf citizenship that are not from there. It is up to the country whether they want to give citizenships or not, right?

Mr. Spaceman,
What bogus reasons??????????????? Cause & Effect. The giant is awake! If you attack a country, especially one that's very powerful - the most powerful in terms of weapons - then you'll get what you deserve! A bomb dropped on your head!

One question mark is enough. Cause & Effect. I see the effect, but what was the cause? (Regarding Iraq)

You must take your freedom for granted!

You must be one helluva gullable person...
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:48 am

Then why won't the UAE allow non-Muslim Arabs to take citizenship? This is racism.

No it isnt. They dont allow anyone to take citizenship, period. Not Muslim or non-Muslim. I have noticed this trend of your where you speak bullshit, you get proved wrong and you then try to make pathetic arguements.


Wow, that's a convenient way for the UAE to remain 100% Muslim. It's a racist policy and you should denounce it.

Gulf states do not even embrace their fellow Arabs to become citizens, why would they invite non-Arabs and non-Muslims?

Very few people actually get Gulf citizenship that are not from there. It is up to the country whether they want to give citizenships or not, right?


Do you support this UAE no-immigation policy QR? If so, how wuold you feel about an EU immigration policy banning all non-Europeans or non-Christians?


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:54 am

Clearly what we have here is "shoot the messenger." When the subject is unconfortable you squirm and call names. Pleasant. Very pleasant. And as I said, "Interesting observations and thoughts in the... article." We all all know there is increasingly a hatred towards Arabs just as there has been against Jews in Europe by Europeans. It's everywhere not just in Europe alone. But before you get rid of it, you must recoginze the problem of it being there in the first place.

How many of you have actually read the piece? If you google the topic it's not the only article out there on the subject.











 
LHSebi
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:20 am

you squirm and call names

Where is anyone squirming?...The name calling began after you made your opinion on the article, and other users pretty clear...
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
qr332
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:38 am

Yyz,
Wow, that's a convenient way for the UAE to remain 100% Muslim. It's a racist policy and you should denounce it.

Why is it racist? Its got nothing to do with Islam, its because they dont want Emiratis to be outnumbered. Are you really this ignorant or do you just act it to piss people off?

Do you support this UAE no-immigation policy QR? If so, how wuold you feel about an EU immigration policy banning all non-Europeans or non-Christians?

If they banned all non-Europeans, it would be racist, if Germany banned all non-German, it would be understandable. It is the same. Why are you so convinced it is only against Christians and Westerners? Anybody non-Emirati cant get the citizenship, period.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:40 am

LH, if you have anything to add to the discussion keep it on topic. You always seem to pop up with nothing substantive.

 
LHSebi
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:50 am

Rabb...I think my post above was very much so on topic. It was a direct response to what you wrote. You thought that (us Europeans mainly) were trying to talk around the topic since it involves us, and talks about a situation that you seem to think is uncomfortable for us to talk about.

All I replied with was saying that no one is "squirming" as you called it. People are giving legitimate responses to the article! I don't see what your problem is...Don't try to lecture me on giving substantive responses to a thread. You think you were adding pearls of wisdom in your failed attempt to post a picture of a donkey above?... Insane Seems like hypocrisy isn't limited to those working in the White House.

As for the article, I would agree with Schoenorama. There is no new "wave" as you call it. It is a ripple that rises and falls as time passes. Is it a problem, sure! Can we alone do anything about it? Not really...Just keep an open mind towards foreign religions and/or people.

Sebastian

Are you happy Rabb?...
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:03 am

I am always happy. Though there seems to be quite a few here that sure are bitter about a few things when their own 'vaulted" Europe comes under discussion by a reporter and is then posted for discussion. No one likes to read the bad stuff about their society but it needs to be said.

Oh well, the article is out there for all to read it. Hope it brings to light some serious thought on those who fail to see what is around them and the potential for becoming an even bigger wave that not only will affect Europeans but others as well.



 
Schoenorama
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:16 am

Mr Spaceman:

"No it doesn't. I'm not the Jealous one!"

So you seriously believe terrorists attack out of jealousy?

"My world was attacked on 911, and those responsible will be killed sooner and later. "

That all sounds very nice but will that actually solve the problem...

"What bogus reasons??????????????? Cause & Effect."

WMD's, Saddam & al-Qaeda, yellowcake from Nigeria, to name just a few. No connection whatsoever. We know the Effect now, but we still don't know the real cause.

"The giant is awake! If you attack a country, especially one that's very powerful - the most powerful in terms of weapons - then you'll get what you deserve! "

Iraq didn't attack on 9/11, Mr Spaceman. Wake-up!

"Once again, my world was attacked. An act of WAR will be responded too."

Invading a country which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 is NOT a good way to respond.

"Obviously, I've wasted my time trying to get through to you. I'm talking about real life, and you want to site movies! Grow up!"

"Freedom will kill evil" is what you said. It is this overly simplistic approach which, in the same way as Bush's "You're either with us or against us", has gotten this World (which also happens to be My world) in a far worse shape security-wise, than before the Invasion of Iraq.

The real problems we all face today can't be summed-up in a 4 words Star Wars-like phrase, how appealing that phrase might be to you. Fighting terrorism can never ever be done succesfully by bombing the hell out of a certain region as you seem to believe, specially when a particular country had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 to begin with.

"You can't say anything that will stop that. I'm very proud that the free world is fighting back. Sorry but that's life! If you attack America, where I live, you will be attacked back! That's very simple to understand! Do you get it???"

Then why didn't the US attack Canada, for example, in retaliation for 9/11? Canada had as much to do with 9/11 as Iraq did. Is that so hard to get???

"You must take your freedom for granted! "

Spain was 'attacked' after 9/11 and have we bombed the hell out of Liechtenstein in retaliation?

Commander_Rabb:

"Clearly what we have here is "shoot the messenger." When the subject is unconfortable you squirm and call names. Pleasant. Very pleasant."

When 'the messenger' uses an 'appealing' title the linked article (as a whole) doesn't even reach, I'd say its pretty fair to shoot the messenger. I don't have a problem at all in discussing this 'uncomfortable subject' as you call it, as long as we don't take things out of proportions as you clearly have done from the moment you started this whole discussion.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
OYRJA
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:17 am

Though there seems to be quite a few here that sure are bitter about a few things when their own 'vaulted" Europe comes under discussion by a reporter and is then posted for discussion. No one likes to read the bad stuff about their society but it needs to be said.

I totally agree with you that things has to be done. But nothing has to be done here. Because the journalist probably never went to Europe in the first place.
If he came here and saw what was going on he would have a totally different view about it.
I have met very few people that are afraid of Islamic people. And I'll bet that in the European community about 1 out of 100 are afraid of Islam.
And that is most likely because we are not allowed to Criticize them in public without being killed.
 
avek00
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RE: The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:28 am

It was easy for Europe to pretend that it was more cosmopolitan on diversity than the US when visible minorities were few and far between. Now that Europe also has to deal with nonwhite/non-Christian/non-European-language speaking populations reaching double-digit percentages, open manifestations of xenophobia will become a fact of life throughout the Continent.
Live life to the fullest.

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