skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:43 am

The Supreme Court of Canada is releasing their 'opinion' on the constitutionality of same-sex marriage on Thursday. It appears that the court is expected to approve or support affording marriage to same-sex couples. The Justice Minister also said today that if the court approves the reference then legislation could be tabled in the House of Commons as soon as January (after the Holiday recess) to put it into law.

Some interesting links for further information:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/samesexrights/beforethecourt.html
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2004/07/c2284.hhttp
http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041206/CPN/15984017
http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp?cat=2&nid=22428
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:46 am

Yet another reason why it's laughable when the U.S. claims to be the world's beacon for "freedom" and "equality"... the U.S. would do well to learn some things from it's neighbor.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:04 am

Here, Here TWAFirst, very well said.

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:44 am

"Yet another reason why it's laughable when the U.S. claims to be the world's beacon for "freedom" and "equality"... the U.S. would do well to learn some things from it's neighbor. "


I'll agree with that....




CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:02 pm

"Bring us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free . . ."

...except the gays. You're not welcomed here, and we don't want you.

Signed,

George W. Bush and Conservative America
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Nancy
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:49 pm

I heard that wedding consultants, caterers d.j.s etc were all looking forward to economic rewards of this. Good time to be wedding planner up north!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:53 pm

We have that thread going on about "liberals" moving to Canada. I wouldn't just for my political view, but if I were a gay in the U.S., with the amount of disdain towards them right now, I'd leave the U.S. in a heartbeat for Canada. At least I could live out the dream of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" without prudish religious lunatics or the government worried if I got married or not.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:12 pm

>>We have that thread going on about "liberals" moving to Canada. I wouldn't just for my political view, but if I were a gay in the U.S., with the amount of disdain towards them right now, I'd leave the U.S. in a heartbeat for Canada. At least I could live out the dream of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" without prudish religious lunatics or the government worried if I got married or not.<<


Well Falcon.. I have SERIOUSLY considered it... still am to an extent.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
avek00
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:31 pm

"Yet another reason why it's laughable when the U.S. claims to be the world's beacon for "freedom" and "equality"..."

1. Last time I checked, freedom means (at least in part) that the people have the ability to DECIDE what they wish to deem legal or illegal within the society. While I do not support a ban on gay marriage, I fully respect the fact that the predominant anit-gay marriage sentiment is a clear expression of the free will of the people.

2. In order to make an equality argument, sexual orientation would have to be designated as a protected status under the law - at the federal level, that is not the case at present, meaning that any equal protection/rights arguments must necessarily fail.
Live life to the fullest.
 
jaysit
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:32 pm

Last time I checked, freedom means (at least in part) that the people have the ability to DECIDE what they wish to deem legal or illegal within the society.

True.
However, there is that pesky Constitution that trumps many majority decisions.
In any case, I have no problem with referendums that show the mood of the electorate. But one would think that politicians - irrespective of how they feel about this issue - would call a time-out so that Americans can spend the next few years having a reasonable dialogue as to a. whether the institution of marriage is really protected by banning gay marriages; b. how viable gay legal unions, be they marriage or civil unions, can be created in the US while understanding the objections some have to gay marriage. Also, this would allow the judiciary to come to some consensus and/or allow the Supreme Court to weigh in. However, our legislators want to halt any dialogue whatsoever by treating the Constitution like a piece of toilet paper. Amend it against gays, amend it for Arnold.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:03 am

Avek00:

Last time I checked, freedom and equality means freedom and equality for ALL... not just for the majority. If that were the case, we'd probably still have segregation based on race in this country.

Actually, gays don't have to be a protected class to obtain marriage equality. It's a simple case of gender discrimination, and obviously you must know that discrimination based on gender is already illegal. Name one other legal covenant that two adult non-related people can enter into where the parties entering into it are restricted to the opposite sex.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
gigneil
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:55 am

1. Last time I checked, freedom means (at least in part) that the people have the ability to DECIDE what they wish to deem legal or illegal within the society.

It doesn't.

Freedom means the will of the majority should never be enforced inviolate of the rights of the minority.

If you and I have to agree on it, its not freedom, is it?

N
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:05 am

I just noticed a grammatical error in my previous post (apologies)... the sentence should read:

Last time I checked, freedom and equality means freedom and equality for ALL... not just for the majority. If that WEREN'T the case, we'd probably still have segregation based on race in this country.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
jaysit
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:06 am

The Canadian legislation is elegant and respectful of all.

It states that the right of marriage is fundamental.

It also respects the rights of those whose religious views would prevent them from performing a same-sex union.

I congratulate the Canadian government and the Canadian people.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:00 am

Wonder where all those gay-bashers are? They've been pretty quiet.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:03 am

FYI here is a copy of the draft bill that is in front of the court...

From the Department of Justice

Proposal for an Act respecting certain aspects of legal capacity for marriage for civil purposes.

WHEREAS marriage is a fundamental institution in Canadian society and the Parliament of Canada has a responsibility to support that institution because it strengthens commitment in relationships and represents the foundation of family life for many Canadians;

WHEREAS, in order to reflect values of tolerance, respect and equality consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, access to marriage for civil purposes should be extended to couples of the SAME-SEX;

AND WHEREAS everyone has the freedom of conscience and religion under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and officials of religious groups are free to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs;

NOW, THEREFORE, Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:

1. Marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others.
2. Nothing in this Act affects the freedom of officials of religious groups to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Consequential amendments will be added in the bill that is introduced in Parliament.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:20 am

First of all, banning gay marriage doesn't protect the sanctity of marriage. Banning or making divorce a dfficult process protects marriage and the United States has one of the highest divorce rates in the world.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
airtran737
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:31 am

Oh we're around Falcon. I just dont feel like having you instant message me about how I'm a homophobe, and blah blah blah.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:52 am

So AirTran737 admits he's a gaybasher...

An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
airtran737
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:10 am

That seems to be what you all call me because I dont agree w/the gay lifestyle, and because of my conservative values. Call me what you want, you're entitled to your opinion as well as I am entitled to mine.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:20 am

As an avid supporter of Gay/civil rights everywhere, I truly hope this comes to pass. The way I and others see it, this is a simple matter of human/civil rights, an issue of State, and should not come under the jurisdiction of the Church (Bud out!). As far as I see it (and many other straights) this issue should not even be open to debate or discussion. Oppression is oppression, no matter how you slice it.

I'm happily biased towards gays and lesbians, but it goes way beyond that. We have had several close gay/lesbian friends for years now, and many are in very stable, close-knit relationships - two couples have adopted children (one of them was the first gay couple in Ontario to be granted adoption rights). It would be wonderful to see these men and women have the CHOICE to exchange vows. Let's put an end to treating these fine people like sub-species, and let's all join the 21rst Century. Besides, ya gotta admit, a gay wedding would be FABulous...just think of the food! LOL.

None of us have any right to deny these people their right and desire to make their relationships 'official'. 'Steve and Mike' getting hitched does not affect yours or my life in any way, shape or form. On that note, none of us have any right to transpose our PERSONAL organized religious beliefs onto others or into the mainstream, especially when it inhibits freedom of rights in certain groupings. Get over it. Some have called gay marriage rights an insult to the institution of marriage? Give me a break. Straight couples have been destroying the sancitity of marriage for eons (infidelity- sky-high divorce rates), although that in itself should not be a determining/deciding factor in favour of gay marriages.

If this goes through (and I for one hope it does) then my sincere congratulations the to gay men and women of Canada. Hopefully, our country can provide a positive example for nations where gays are still discriminated against.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:36 am

>>Besides, ya gotta admit, a gay wedding would be FABulous...just think of the food! LOL.<<

The food's only the beginning... think of the decorations!! And the music!!!  Big grin I will have the best dance music at my reception if I ever choose to get married (although I probably won't dance to it).




>>and because of my conservative values<<

You mean your bigoted values??

I don't agree with your religious lifestyle... or your ability to marry some bimbo you don't even know yet be entitled to a bunch of legal benefits, but I'm not going to do anything to prevent you from leading that lifestyle if you want to.... why do you and your kind want to prevent me from living my life and getting the same benefits as you?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:54 am

"The food's only the beginning... think of the decorations!! And the music!!! I will have the best dance music at my reception if I ever choose to get married (although I probably won't dance to it)."

LOL. Our great & hilarious next door neighbours are a gay couple who have been together for about 12 years. These guys have been licking their chops with delight as they are planning on getting married should this bill be passed. They already throw the absolutely best parties in our neighbourhood (yeah, great dance music!)....so I can only imagine what their wedding reception would be like. A lot of the women on our street are begging to be bridesmaids, as they KNOW these guys will spring for high-end designer dresses that can be worn after their wedding! LOL.

 
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yyz717
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:58 am

As an avid supporter of Gay/civil rights everywhere, I truly hope this comes to pass.

Me also. I fully support this.

I just wish the politicians had the balls to "rule" on this rather than an unelected and unaccountable Supreme Court. Who's running this country anyway? Our elected politicians or 9 old farts on warm legal benches?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:13 am

Yyz717,

I definitely understand where you are coming from, however, at the same time I am tempted to say that when it comes down to it, it WILL be our politicians who rule on it. The Supreme Court (who are supposed to be experts on constitutional matters I presume) are simply giving their opinion on where same-sex marriage stands with respect to the Constitution Act, 1982 and in particular the Charter. As scared as they may be, come January when this gets tabled our politicians will have to have the balls to "rule" on it. Who knows, they may reject the courts opinion (although safe to say that would be political suicide no doubt). I guess the point I am trying to make is that the SCC is simply issuing a reference, an opinion which in the end really has no bearing. Good for reference? Yes. Enforceable? No.

The point of it being referred to the courts was to ensure that should it be challenged in the future the Bill can withstand any pressures from the courts who may try to overturn or overrule it. In this respect, I think the government is doing a good thing in getting the courts opinion and ultimately covering their own ass.

[Edited 2004-12-08 23:15:48]
 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:15 am

Yes, it would be a rather refreshing (and shocking) change to see our politicians display some chutzpah, no? Well, I agree, but as long as SOMEBODY passes this long overdue bill, then that's good enough for me.

"Our elected politicians or 9 old farts on warm legal benches?"

I'm confused by this statement. Are you refering to a politician who blew 9 farts whilst sitting on a legal bench, or are the benches warmed by the farts
of several?




 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:19 am

"The Supreme Court (who are supposed to be experts on constitutional matters I presume) are simply giving their opinion on where same-sex marriage stands with respect to the Constitution Act, 1982 and in particular the Charter. As scared as they may be, come January when this gets tabled our politicians will have to have the balls to "rule" on it."

That's right.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:30 am

In the US the gay marriage/civil union issue was on the ballot in many states. It failed in all of them. Why is this? It is not because George W. Bush is President. It is because the people of the United States do not seem to want gay marriage/civil unions. This is not your elected leaders failing you by not representing you. This is the citizens of this very country speaking their mind against this issue. This means gay leaders, if there are any, have not done enough to fight homophobia and make people believe in gay rights.

Moving to Canada is not going to solve anything. All that happens when you move is more people who vote for the gay agenda in the US stop voting. You can go to Canada and get legally married. I am not sure what good that will do you but it would be the start of a great legal battle to get that marriage recognized. We have reciprocity on many things with Canada, like drivers liscenses, vehicle registration, and straight marriages, why not on gay marriages?

There was not a gay marriage issue on the ballot in my state (Texas) there probably never will be. But in plenty of states, red and blue there was a ballot issue. Clinton, Kerry, or Falcon84 could have been in the White House and this still would have failed.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with gays getting married, the straights have destroyed the institution of marriage enough already that I find it hard to believe anyone still gives a rats ass about it. straight people have like a 60% divorce rate, maybe we could all learn something from the pink team by letting them take a crack at it.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:51 am

"It is because the people of the United States do not seem to want gay marriage/civil unions."

Just like when many southern states did not want integration with African-American and white high school students. Blacks were, and are, oppressed, just as gays are, just as many other groups are. People don't want it? I don't believe you or I have the right, any right at all to determine who or whom should be denied the right to choice. In my personal opinion, this issue is absolutely NOT to be determined by a vote ('Let's all VOTE on whether or not Black high school students have the right to attend school with their caucasian counterparts) - it is a clear cut matter of the absolute denial of civil rights towards a body of people which needs, which must be addressed and favourably actioned upon by the respective governing body in office at a federal level. The governing body addressing said issue should (in the real world) divorce themselves from their individual and collective organized religious leanings and focus on this matter as a State issue.

"This is not your elected leaders failing you by not representing you."

Yes, it is, indeed. The government holding office, the state, should in fact
be the ones who ignite the catalyst for change and reform within their legal boundaries. The governing body does, and should be representative of the freedom and civil liberties for all whom reside and hold citizenship within their borders. The elected government should adhere to their own version of a nationalistic 'charter of rights' that allows for all peoples to be free from discrimination and oppression.

"There was not a gay marriage issue on the ballot in my state (Texas) there probably never will be."

Surprise, surprise. Good ole liberal, God fearin, Jesus lovin Texas.

"straight people have like a 60% divorce rate, maybe we could all learn something from the pink team by letting them take a crack at it."

LOL! Great choice of words. *wink*
 
jaysit
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:55 am

In the US the gay marriage/civil union issue was on the ballot in many states. It failed in all of them. Why is this?

In all the states the issue was presented as "gay marriage." In a few states they also added the term "civil unions." There was no separation between the 2 terms. However, legally and culturally there are. In fact, many Americans who oppose the use of the term "marriage" will support a gay civil union.

Already in Georgia, this distinction is being contested. 60% of GA voters voted against gay marriage, but the support against gay civil unions was only 47%. The GA Supreme Court will attend to whether the GA referendum met constitutional standards because 2 separate issues were on one question.

But to answer your question, I think that gay marriage is a VERY NEW social concept in the US. Its not even about party distinctions. Dems are split down the middle, while Republicans oppose it by larger numbers. I think that the classic answer given - that the US is socially conservative is a red herring. Its just that this is a major social change, and major social changes take time to happen and time to be accepted.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:27 am

Well, its official! This morning the Supreme Court of Canada ruled IN FAVOR of extending the right of marriage to same-sex couples.

The Court was presented with four questions and asked to give their opinion on them:


First question: Does Parliament have the exclusive legislative authority to change the legal definition of marriage?

Supreme Court's answer: Yes

Second question: Is extending the capacity to marry persons of the same sex consistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? (Canada's version of the Bill of Rights pretty much)

Supreme Court's answer: Yes

Third question: Are religious leaders protected under the Charter of Rights from having to marry same-sex couples?

Supreme Court's answer: Yes

After taking over from the Chretien government, Prime Minister Paul Martin added a fourth question:

Fourth question: Is the traditional definition of marriage between a man and a woman constitutional?

No answer- According to one analyst, by not answering the 4th question it keeps the court from getting tangled up in a heated political debate, and thus leaves it in the hands of parliament to make the final call.

More info:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102592743862_17/?hub=TopStories
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/12/08/773818-cp.html
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/09/scoc-gaymarriage041209.html


Currently, out of the 4 parties in the House of Commons it appears that the NDP and a significant number of Bloc Quebecois members support same-sex marriage while the ruling Liberals are divided, and the Conservatives somewhat divided as well.

In another interesting note, one Liberal MP has called on the PM to use the notwithstanding clause in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to stop gay marriage.
http://politicswatch.com/samesex-dec8-2004.htm

My oh my, things certainly are heating up in parliament. Should be an interesting session no doubt come January when this gets tabled.


 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:09 am

Looking at what is going on in this matter south of our border, I have the feeling that the right to same-sex marriage, alongside with our healthcare program, will become a defining characteristic of the Canadian identity.

Basically, this ruling reinforces the Canadian tradition that the government has no business being into people's bedrooms.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
gigneil
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:16 am

That seems to be what you all call me because I dont agree w/the gay lifestyle, and because of my conservative values.

I don't see how you could "agree" or "disagree" with the natural evolution of a person.

Do you also disagree with the black lifestyle, or the mentally challenged lifestyle? Perhaps the hispanic lifestyle?

"Conservative values" means you support the exit of the government from our daily lives as much as possible, and support more freedoms and less laws.

You have "bigoted values". There's a difference.



N
 
Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:28 am

'Fourth question: Is the traditional definition of marriage between a man and a woman constitutional? - No answer- According to one analyst, by not answering the 4th question it keeps the court from getting tangled up in a heated political debate, and thus leaves it in the hands of parliament to make the final call.'

I'm not surprised by this non-answer, but at the same time I am disappointed that a lack of courage and initiative was displayed here. Now, the ball is most certainly in the Parliament court. Rumour has it they want to pass this before Christmas. That would indeed be a great 'gift' to the countless Canadian gay men and women. If this long overdue bill is passed, I will be one very happy and exceedingly proud Canadian.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:52 am

Agreed... far too long have bigots (of all types) hid under the the label of "conservative"; so much so that said words have almost become synonymous-- and it's time that stopped.


For the sake of candor: I also feel the same way about anarchists/socialists vis-a-vis "liberal".
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:07 am

Agreed... far too long have bigots (of all types) hid under the the label of "conservative"; so much so that said words have almost become synonymous-- and it's time that stopped.

True.
Kinsey was a conservative who opposed the New Deal and the Soviet Union, yet all the bigots from such organizations like the Tradition Values Coalition, the FRC, etc., have been lambasting his 50-year old findings as well as the recent film made on his life.

On another note, perhaps some of these bigots aren't really conservatives.

They're just Republicans.

Your party has become the natural breeding ground for a whole crop of bigots of every stripe.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:53 am

Your party has become the natural breeding ground for a whole crop of bigots of every stripe.

Perhaps so...


...course, you realize the same could be said about the Ass-Party in relation to anarchists/socialists/communists/any form of minority special-interest group (good or bad)/etc, correct?

Works both ways bub.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:52 am

Works both ways bub.

It doesn't.

We're talking bigots here, not those who would prefer a nationalized medical insurance system, tax raisers, and the like.

The Dems may have become home to a slew of stupefyingly dull special interest groups, but while they may be boring and occassionally misguided and generally oblivious to the lasting benefits of responsible capitalism, at least their motivations are not fueled by blatant bigotry.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:11 am

Looks like other U.S. allies (even those run by right-wing religious folks) are also waking up and realizing that gays are people too:



Same-sex couples win rights in Israel

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 / 05:03 PM

Same-sex couples in Israel will now have the same rights as common law spouses when it comes to matters of property, taxation and inheritance.

The move comes after Israel's attorney general, Menachem Mazuz, decided not to appeal a district court decision in Nazareth recognizing a same-sex couple in a recent inheritance ruling.

The year before, former attorney general, Elyakim Rubinstein, had ruled that Israel would not recognize same-sex couples.

According to Mazuz's decision, partners will not only be recognized in matters of taxation and real estate, but will also be able to transfer gifts between them without paying taxes.

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, quoted an unnamed source close to Mazuz, saying, "There must be distinctions made between various types of property, with an emphasis on pragmatism and flexibility, in the spirit of the times and the changing reality as well as personal status, which requires a more cautious approach and is usually a matter for the legislature."

The Jerusalem Post quoted legal reporter Moshe Gorli, who said that the courts and the Knesset are already making preparations.

"The state of Israel will stop formally fighting against the efforts of same-sex couples to institutionalize their relationships. I think this is an honorable sign as to how far society and the state have come over the years," Gorli said.

The Jerusalem Post also heard from Knesset member Roman Bronfman. The paper said Bronfman described the attorney general's decision as "a milestone in the struggle of the gay community for equal rights and an expansion of the concept of the nuclear family."

While LGBT activists celebrated the decision, Agence France-Presse noted that some rabbis warned that Israel risked becoming another Sodom and Gomorrah. The rabbis claimed God destroyed the biblical cities because of their rampant homosexuality -- an interpretation other religious scholars reject.

Despite the religious opposition to same-sex couples in Israel, homosexuality has been legal in Israel since 1988.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:17 am

So now we've got Canada, Spain, Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, South Africa, New Zealand, Belgium, Finland, Israel and probably a few more countries all either already or on the verge of some sort of legal recognition. And I would expect the rest of Europe to follow in the near future.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:46 pm

Hey AirTran,

Why did you CHOOSE to be straight? Why do you CHOOSE to live such a vile lifestyle?

I just think Straight people should have no rights in America. They choose this life of being straight, that should be outlawed. They should not be free to love members of the opposite sex. The Straight people should not be allowed around children as they force that life style on to them, which in turn will force them to be straight.

Shameful!

TWFirst,

Once again, your rock in your first post!!
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Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:51 pm

That seems to be what you all call me because I dont agree w/the gay lifestyle, and because of my conservative values.

I didn't know conservative values included abject, open homophobia, AirTran, because that's what you are guilty of. You fear what you don't like, and therefore you want those who aren't like you to be considered less than you are.
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NWAFA
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:53 pm

Falcon,

Very well said. In addition people like him think just because they put "Jesus" first in their life that they don't judge or hate people, but action speak louder than words.

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rjpieces
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:54 pm

So now we've got Canada, Spain, Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, South Africa, New Zealand, Belgium, Finland, Israel and probably a few more countries all either already or on the verge of some sort of legal recognition. And I would expect the rest of Europe to follow in the near future.


Just wondering, but why did you bold South Africa and Israel?

AirTran737, please respond to TWFirsts Reply 21.
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jasepl
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:41 pm

Because, Reese, they're supposed to be part of the not-so-developed world and still do a better job - at least on paper - in many matters related to basic human dignity than the world's beacon for "freedom" and "equality". That's why.
 
Btblue
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:43 am

I always thought America was a rather forward thinking country - until I heard about them banning same sex marriages.

We all have opinions, we all have values and we know what's right and wrong. George W Bush is a religious looney, an extremist. That's my opinion.

The day of America being great is almost over. In 20 years time Asia will be the frontrunner.

I used to love visiting America. Now I'd rather holiday elsewhere.

My views are not aimed at the individual American - just the twats who run the country.
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Falcon84
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Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:11 am

I always thought America was a rather forward thinking country - until I heard about them banning same sex marriages.

We always have been, until the last 4 years or so. Now, we have NASCAR Fan: tobacco chewing, backwoods bigots running the politics in a large part of the country. That's why you have concealed gun laws; that's why gay bashing is in vogue; that's why theres a push for MORE executions; that's why most states don't give a shit about higher education.

It's the dumbing down of the U.S., and it's begun, and is lead by the man we have in the White House. He appeals to the lowest common denominator of Americans, and since the stupid ones outnumber the smart ones, you end up with State-Sanctioned bigotry and hatred.
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Guest

RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:47 am

That is extremely entertaining, Falcon84. Good job generalizing 51% of Americans.
 
Btblue
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:49 am

Falcon84 - that was really well put. Hat off to you.
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Falcon84
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RE: Same-Sex Marriage In Canada Come Thursday

Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:29 am

That is extremely entertaining, Falcon84. Good job generalizing 51% of Americans.

BC04, since you're the one who equates gays with dogs, I feel pretty comfortable with what I say.

You're scared of people who aren't like you. That's why you want to make them 2nd class citizens. People like you who compare any human being to a dog, well, I think the dumbing down is in full progress.
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