ConcordeBoy
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Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:45 pm

Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti...

...pulled from his rat-hole one year ago today.






Other than a few priceless mugshots, exactly what have we gained thusfar?

IINM, the dude hasn't even met with lawyers to begin the preliminary compulsories of trial prep.

Yeah, I know patience is a virtue, and perhaps it's just me; but anyone else find this to be moving painfully slowly, even after an election year?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Catatonic
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:08 pm

CBoy, did you post anything particularly interesting for your 11000th post?
Equally Cursed and Blessed.
 
Russophile
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:55 pm

CBoy, did you post anything particularly interesting for your 11000th post?

10999 posts not remotely interesting, what makes you think his 11000th would be anything special?  Smile

Yeah, I know patience is a virtue, and perhaps it's just me; but anyone else find this to be moving painfully slowly, even after an election year?

Wait a sec. The trial isn't controlled by Americans, so what difference would an American election make to a trial which is supposed to be run by the Iraqis?

I personally can't wait for justice to be served in this instance. Will that happen? Probably not. We all know that Saddam is guilty -- anyone who denies that is a fool. But what I want to see if this Iraqi court will also file charges against Saddam's accomplices, and that includes foreigners (several of them currently in various roles of government in Washington).

Trial is reported to be starting sometime before the Iraqi elections (according to the Iraqis).
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:29 pm

did you post anything particularly interesting for your 11000th post?

...well, considering that this is said post--- you make the call  Big grin




The trial isn't controlled by Americans, so what difference would an American election make to a trial which is supposed to be run by the Iraqis?

...are you kidding us with this? My sarcasm gauge has been reading somewhat low lately  Yeah sure
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Gary2880
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:21 pm

dont be daft russophile, the americans rule the world, everything revolves around them and happens when they want it to happen, duh!

(you wanted sarcasm?  Big grin)
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:24 pm

We've gained the posession of a nation who's people hate us. Yippie.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OYRJA
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:28 pm

We've gained the posession of a nation who's people hate us. Yippie.

What are you talking about Falcon? They love you. Just watch the news and you will see it  Big grin
 
Thom@s
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:41 pm

To quote Ian Hislop: "They (the americans) have liberated Iraq, and the grateful population is trying to kill them."

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:46 pm

ROTFL. "Liberated" them. We've taken them from one kind of misery to another. They've gone from a tyrianical dictator to anarchaic mayhem.

Thanks, George W. It's been so much fun, watching 1500 Americans die, thousands of Iraqi's, and a nation laid ruin.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
cptkrell
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:14 am

Perhaps a more appropos thread title would read:
"Saddam, Captured 1 Year...What Have THEY Gained?"

Although much positive can be said about Saddam's demise as ruler, perhaps if the planning and execution of this adventure had been done with more forethought and professionalism, things would be currently much better. Perhaps, of course, we shouldn't have become involved in the first place (my gut feeling).

I have not been directly involved with this affair (as I presuppose most of you have not) and must rely on picking through various news sources to form my own opinion. I will add anecdotally that out of numerous armed forces personel I have talked with since their return, their candid comments on progress are about 2-to-1 in favor of the campaign and its' future resolve. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
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solnabo
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:43 am

Saddam, captured 1 year....what have we gained??

Zero

Nada

Zipp

Ingenting

Nothing what so ever.........

Micke//SE  Sad
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:04 am

Yes.

We've gained a new star to play Tom Selleck's dad in "Magnum PI on Golden Pond."
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:55 pm

Saddam said that if we (the US) invaded Iraq it would be like Vietnam all over again. Well, he was right. Dubya got his trophy that's what capturing Saddam was all about. Now when do we leave ??? How many more Osama wana be's are we going to make before we pack up and go ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Russophile
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:09 pm

Gary2880, please mate, don't talk on issues that you know nothing about. Don't you remember that on 28th June the Iraqi people were handed their sovereignty -- even happened 2 days before schedule. The Americans do not want to control Iraq. They want the Iraqis to make their own decisions on issues which will affect Iraqis. The Americans are only there so long as they are welcomed by the Iraqi government. I know this is true, because US President George W. Bush said so himself.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:13 pm

Russophile, Are you serious dude ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Springbok747
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:37 pm

Well..we have learnt that by using Google, you can capture just about anything or anyone:



 Laugh out loud
אני תומך בישראל
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:27 pm

January 20th, 2009 Can't Come Fast Enough!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Alphafalcon, I hope you choke on a donkey-shaped cookie on that day, since they'll need to be eaten from the victory party that didn't work out for yall that year  Laugh out loud

Seriously though...I say we grill the shit out of the bastard for info about Capt. Scott Speicher....we owe that much to his family and the men who served with him (I lived a few streets over at the time of his shootdown, he was in my dad's Airwing, small world)...Saddam has to know something about what happened over there in 91.

DeltaGuy

"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
itsjustme
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:57 pm

C'mon, don't you guys read reports of or listen to what Dubya and his band of puppets say? The WORLD is now a much safer place without Saddam in power. Hell, it's almost been a full 24 hours since an American GI or a member of the coalition has been killed. How much more safe can we be?

I have no doubt that Bush, a self proclaimed "War President" (now there's something to be proud of) will have us attacking Iran before his 2nd term is up.

Damn, now where did I put that application for Canadian citizenship...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:06 pm

Damn, now where did I put that application for Canadian citizenship...

...I have a few suggestions, but they'll all get censored out anyways  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
itsjustme
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:20 pm

...I have a few suggestions, but they'll all get censored out anyways

Yeah, so much for freedom of speech...
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:03 am

Yeah, so much for freedom of speech...

This is a privately run website; Johan reserves the right to censor anything he wants. Freedom of speech is not a rule here.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
Russophile
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:55 am

DC10guy, of course I am serious. You have to admit that GWB is the BEST thing that has ever happened to America since Reagan -- making so many friends around the world where there were no friends before. You really have to realise that GWB is doing what he is doing for the common good of all humanity, for both now and in the future.

GWB knows the way, and I sincerely think all people from all nations should support him and his plan, uncompromisingly, so that we all will have a chance of living in peace during our lifetimes.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:00 am

any american that ever believed that saddam and his runnings were a threat to US national security, is the proof that the spotlight of ignorance aimed at the american public by the government itself...is def bright and working.... upsetting.

Saddam and the CIA were best friends just 2 decades ago when Iran was the question....and now??

There is nothing Saddam could ever tell the usa after being captured, that would be completely new news to the usa.....what do u think unmanned planes, cia, and a crap load of people on the inside have been gathering for years about iraq....

I feel sorry for regular americans because most of the world is starting to judge them as people, based on the actions of their gov...and they don't deserve that....

Why did you go all the way to Iraq, when Cuba is supposed to be a communist country right down there with good ole Fidel....
If an american really believes that Saddam was a threat, ask those people who believe this why they think the US has let Fidel rule the way he has....

sigh  Sad
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:03 am

Russophile, ah,,, SO how's things in your world ??? GWB is a asswipe in the real world.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:06 pm

You're an asswipe in the real world and in the virtual world!

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
nosedive
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:16 pm

making so many friends around the world where there were no friends before.

The Pilgrims made friends w/ Squanto when they shoved a bible down this throat and a rifle up his ass, too.... Insane
 
itsjustme
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:48 pm

This is a privately run website; Johan reserves the right to censor anything he wants. Freedom of speech is not a rule here.

Yes he can, an usually does. Maybe he'll be King of his own little island some day.

And, thanks to some of the thin skinned Mods in here who selectively censor what are usually nothing more than comical posts, I'll be joining what I am sure is a growing list of one time only subscribers. Some of you guys take yourselves way too seriously.
 
Klaus
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:26 pm

Itsjustme: And, thanks to some of the thin skinned Mods in here who selectively censor what are usually nothing more than comical posts, I'll be joining what I am sure is a growing list of one time only subscribers. Some of you guys take yourselves way too seriously.

Yeah, I guess it is "just you". Big grin
 
Russophile
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:50 am

Russophile, ah,,, SO how's things in your world ???

Much better today. The good thing is the hallucinations which have plagued me for the last couple of days have eased somewhat.

GWB is a asswipe in the real world.

What you mean, in the real world?  Big grin
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:59 am

Maybe he'll be King of his own little island some day.


...ya mean like Dickie Branson?!  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:54 pm

Russophile, I'm glad to hear your getting back to "normal" Drinking heavily helps.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
theCoz
Posts: 3933
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:15 pm

"Mission Accomplished!"

GWB is such an asswipe...

Iraq has plenty of oil, the people are educated and hard working. Who's choice is it for the country to get back on its feet?

The choice belongs to the Iraqi people, right?





...edited for spelling




[Edited 2004-12-16 05:16:02]
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:45 am

My opinion is that we have not gained anything....
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:12 am

My opinion is that we have not gained anything....

I'll go one step further: we've lost a ton of stuff: respect, 1500 young soldiers; our place of moral authority in the world.

Some great record we've amassed, all so GWB could get re-elected.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
whitehatter
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:40 am

IMHO...

Saddam won't come to trial.

There was talk about his having prostate cancer or some other raging lurgi, and ill health will ensure it gets postponed until he croaks.

There's too much he could potentially spill about too many people and their nations in an open courtroom. His death would conveniently ensure a lot gets buried with him that he might just want to take the lid off in court in his defence.

Whether his illness is manufactured or genuine, don't expect him to survive long enough to face the judge and an eight o'clock stroll to the rope room.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:58 pm

how do u trial someone who is the legitimate leader of a country...he is the leader of Iraq...he was forced to step down by a coup pretty much, forced to step down by non iraqis and non residents...so what's the deal with that...?
If the Russians marched into Washington and took Bush out and jailed him...would that be acceptable.. to take bush to a court and try him for whatever...afterall, all the Russians would have to do is say, there is something Bush has that threatens our national Security, and then it's legitimate?

because as far as i remember, the original reason for entering Iraq was WMD...those werent found...now you can change the reason to those of national security, and still be legitimate in your invasion cause? Sounds to me it is WAy too personal a thing between the USA and Iraq, for the USA to remove a leader of another nation....and expect the whole world to join in....

if this is the case and the people of Iraq is a priority...why not invade Cuba, get rid of Castro and make a nice democracy there so that Cubans dont have to swim to FLorida and make a living in the usa.....

another term in officer for bush....searching places for oil...

put the two together...u get = TURMOIL!!
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
SPREE34
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:45 pm

You're an asswipe in the real world and in the virtual world!

DeltaGuy

Don't care much for contrasting points of view aye Chris?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Russophile
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:55 pm

If the Russians marched into Washington and took Bush out and jailed him...would that be acceptable

It would be quite acceptable to me.  Big thumbs up
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:06 am

We've gained a brisk business in the coffin industry in the United States, that's one thing we've gained.

We've gained the contempt of the entire world, not so much because the intel was bad, but that afterwards, Bush and his ass kissers here and around the country then in mid-war changed the very reason for the war, which speaks for itself with complete dishonor.

We've gained the reputation as a bully, who doesn't give a shit about anyone else, and who is willing to sacrifice the rest of the world if need be, to keep up the illusion of our own "safety". And we use our "national security" as an excuse for every dishonorable thing we do.

Yes, we've gained so much. And a lot of your righties think this is such a great thing. How pathetic.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
dl021
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:57 am

One less murderous dictator who was responsible for gassing his own people, invading his neighbors, openly sponsoring palestinian terrorism, and upsetting stability in his own region.

Just a couple of things we have gained through subtraction.

We have freed the Iraqis (whether people like it or not, they are now free from the oppression of their previous dictator, who was not exactly legitimate) added an opportunity to help set up a democracy in the region, that has not ever known one. It would also be an incredible thing to spread.

That will be a feat worth the effort.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:23 am

You do live in a world of delusion when it comes to Iraq, DL021. If you call living in the middle of a war with no end in sight "freedom", I pity you.

And it isn't worth one damn American life, invading a country for no other reason, in the end, because we didn't like their leader. Who the fuck are we, DL021, to dictate to the rest of the world? Answer that for me in all your reasoned responses?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
whitehatter
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:47 am

how do u trial someone who is the legitimate leader of a country...he is the leader of Iraq...he was forced to step down by a coup pretty much, forced to step down by non iraqis and non residents...so what's the deal with that...?

Do a Google on Ann Clwyd.

Her work will be a major part of the prosecution case against Saddam, she has been involved in the anti-Saddam field for a long time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1180746,00.html

Her organisation will be supplying much of the human rights abuse material against him, including evidence regarding the infamous plastic shredder machine which apparently did exist and was used as described.

I've long supported Ann and her work to help document this abuse and eventually free Iraq from Saddam, which is why my war position is (and remains) that it was the right thing done for the wrong reasons and ten years too late.

Ann is a British Labour MP from the left wing of the Party.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
dl021
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:02 am

No need for pity, I think, hell, I know that I see it differently. You choose to believe the people who tell only one part of the story, and I listen to people who have been there. I have never called this easy or a walk in the park, nor am blind to the problems. We have plenty of problems there, just like we have had in every war we ever fought. I believe we will win and that belief comes from my knowing what has worked and not worked in the past, and seeing what we have accomplished in the past when we put our full weight behind the effort. Nothing has been beyond our reach, especially when the goal is just. I can think of no more just goal than the installation of democracy in a country that has been under the thumb of a dictatorship for the last 30 or 40 years.

The path to democracy is not going to get easier soon in Iraq but if we keep hammering the terrorists and putting forward the elections the Iraqi citizens will see that it is possible, and that their destiny is truly in their own hands. All the angry Bush haters here can't take that away from them.

What has been accomplished that is positive? Here are some interesting numbers for you.
new or rebuilt facilities (rest assured that the rebuilt facilities are better than what was there prior)
363 schools
41 public health clinics
14 hospitals
58 railroad stations
88 border posts
6 ports of entry
20 fire stations
16 military bases
67 water facilities
58 electric facilities
19 oil facilities
24 sewer stations
66 roads
194 other misc. projects.

http://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/portal/page?_pageid=75,80077&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Throughout the country we are building and rebuilding facilities (and not just the ones we destroyed in the invasion, before someone goes for that easy shot) and we are enabling the people of Iraq to function at higher levels (infrastructure wise) than prior to the war.

I think that the potential for a functioning democracy should give everyone a little hope for the region. The naysayers seem to wish ill upon Iraq in order to be proven right. I find it slightly short of amusing to listen to them list only that which makes the US look bad. I probably should not expect differently, but I will be very interested to see the reactions when Iraq actually holds its own elections and begins functioning as an independent democracy.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:56 am

No need for pity, I think, hell, I know that I see it differently.

Yes, and that's what is so sad.

I have never called this easy or a walk in the park, nor am blind to the problems.

WE are the problem, don't you get that? WE started this mess, but you look at it as some grand thing, some noble effort. It isn't noble when you invade someone's nation, tear it to pieces, and then try to rebuild as WE want it, not as they might like it. I find that arrogent presumtion, and reprehensible.

but if we keep hammering the terrorists and putting forward the elections the Iraqi citizens will see that it is possible

Puhlleez, you REALLY thing these elecitons mean crap? God, give it a rest. This election won't mean squat. It's another force-feeding by the United States to a people who didn't want to have what the US brought to the table in the first place.

All the angry Bush haters here can't take that away from them.

ROTFL. They need to WANT IT, and I don't think they do. Within 5 years, I'm convinced that Iraq will be as an intrastringent enemy of the US as it was prior to March 19 of '03. This "election" will be seen as a fond memory to conservatives like yourself. And, of course, you'll always find a way to say it's the fault of the liberals, right?

363 schools
41 public health clinics
14 hospitals
58 railroad stations
88 border posts
6 ports of entry
20 fire stations
16 military bases
67 water facilities
58 electric facilities
19 oil facilities
24 sewer stations
66 roads
194 other misc. projects.


Great! For each "project", we've sacrificed 2 or 3 young Americans-not to do anything to make Americans safer (which this war hasn't done), but so that we can spend BILLIONS rebuilding what we helped destroy. Lovely. I'm glad you're so proud of that.

You know, DL021, you may not have the demeanor of a B757300, but you're no different than he is in your blind obedience to the conservative leaders of this country. Absolutely no different at all.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:08 am

My "obedience"? Nah, I think you are as wrong as you think I am. I don't accuse you of blind obedience to the liberal line.

Ask me what I am mad about with our governments actions and what I think are its weaknesses. You already know a few from other comms, but, as I said previously, I think there are plenty of people on these threads hammering the US administration without feeding the fires and giving people ammo to misuse.

Hindsight it perfectly 20/20. We can ignore history and wish for the best, or we can act proactively and seek to cut off trouble makers at the pass and "encourager les autres" at the same time.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:14 am

Hindsight it perfectly 20/20....

Actually, with those who excuse and apologize this war, it's about 90-30, because you deny the real reason for the war, simply because it turned out to be false, and embarrassed our great leader, and all those who really believed WMD were in Iraq.

We can ignore history and wish for the best....

Ignore it? ROTFL. Hell, you're trying to rewrite it!! Instead of being man enough to admit our intel was wrong, our glorious leader and those like you who thought invading a nation that hadn't threatened us was a wonderful thing, you simply ignore the history, then try to rewrite it. It was about WMD, yet you deny that! That's what the invasion was about, and it was a lie. So, to save yourself the embarrassment of having supported a lie, you simply change the "truth", and rewrite it.

That speaks for itself with complete dishonor.

It's nice to know you think we have the right to invade anyone we choose, because of fear and paranoia-oh, yes, and for Presidential politics.

That's not the America I grew up in.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:38 am

Unfortuynately, due to the bungling of GHWB and not dealing with Saddam in the 1990s, this is now a festering sore.

Watch this spread into Saudi Arabia in the next two years, as the insurgency merely moves its focus from the Iraqi battlefield to the Saudi deserts.

If the Saddam issue had been dealt with when he invaded Kuwait, rather than GHWB being persuaded by the Saudis that enough was enough and stop at the border, then the whole problem with insurgency and Al-Qaeda would not have been a factor.

Now it is.

They won't take defeat in Iraq (if it should happen) as an endpoint, just as they dodn't accept Afghanistan as an endpoint. They just shake themselves off and move on. And the next target will be Saudi Arabia, just as Bin Laden said last week.....

Bin Laden ascribes to Wahabbi Islam, a violent and narrow definition of Islam. And where did Wahabbism start? Where is it practiced?

Saudi Arabia. His support is just biding its time, waiting for him.....
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:47 pm

According to the us...Fidel has done some of the things saddam has....on a smaller scale...why havent u gone into Havana and thrown out Fidel...after all....Cuba is much closer to the usa...maybe then we'd believe it was for the safety of US national security...

sheltered people think : What person/country or org in the world in the history of time, has ever helped others in a large scale, without ANY intentions of self profit...i,e: who the heck would spend that much money and put their own people into debt if nothing was in it for them..

so the USA built an economic super power over decades, just so they could give it all away for free, when half your country thinks arabs are bad terrorist muslims....yet your nation gives them money and rebuilds? ok...stop and think people.....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Saddam, Captured 1 Year... What Have We Gained?

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:55 pm

Unfortuynately, due to the bungling of GHWB and not dealing with Saddam in the 1990s, this is now a festering sore.

Keeping his word to members of the alliance is "bungling"? I don't think so. George 41 agreed NOT to occupy Iraq and NOT to make the removal of Saddam a priority in the Gulf War. He kept his word, and I to this day applaud him for doing so. He could have been a dishonorable idiot like his son, but he wasn't. He made an agreement, and he stuck with it. Had he not, he wouldn't have had the support of the Arab members of the alliance, which was badly needed to 1. Throw Saddam out of Kuwait, and 2. Keep Israel out of the war.

That isn't bungling, that's being honorable and true to one's word.

If the Saddam issue had been dealt with when he invaded Kuwait, rather than GHWB being persuaded by the Saudis that enough was enough and stop at the border..

We didn't stop at the border in '91. From Saudi Arabia, we invaded into western Iraq, swung east, and cut off much of the Iraqi forces trying to flee via Basra. In fact, we went had occupied or run our troops through almost the whole southern third of Iraq. So we certainly didn't stop at the border. And it's true, no one could have stopped us from going to Baghdad, but the firestorm it would have caused in '91 would have been immense, and might have touched off a larger war, with Israel being drawn into it.

He kept his word, and I've always had the utmost respect for him for doing so.
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