N243NW
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:29 am

Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:34 pm

Hi all-

About two weeks ago I bought a kit computer online and assembled it. Once I turned it on for the first time and looked under the BIOS screen, I noticed that my processor temperature was unusually high. The temperature climbed and climbed and eventually stabilized at more than 60 degrees Celsius. Now I'm pretty sure that my Celeron 335 running at 2.8GHz shouldn't be above 45 or 50C.

To help cool it down, I borrowed some Arctic Silver thermal grease from a friend and used that in place of the heatsink manufacturer's standard grease. I even switched the processor heatsink and fan with another one, but to no avail. Also, I added three (yes, three!) more case fans to my original one in a final attempt to cool my CPU down, but all my efforts were in vain.

I have been running this computer for around a week or so now; I removed the sides of the case and pointed a small desktop fan into the case. With the fan running, I achieve a case temperature of around 24C and a CPU temperature of about 48C under the BIOS. I know that while still high, these numbers shouldn't damage my system and I have a few weeks left to try to solve the problem without any risk involved.

I installed Windows and all of my programs (including Hmonitor, which lets me see my system temperatures, fan speeds, and voltages while Windows is running), and the temperature readouts are significantly less on Hmonitor than on the BIOS at around 40-42C while idle and anywhere from 48-54C under load with the case open and the fan on (I think it's because the program doesn't officially support my motherboard). Anyway, whatever the actual temperatures may be, I know that my system is running too hot.

I think I have run out of options here. I am relatively computer-savvy, but this is the first PC I have built myself and my PC know-it-all friends can't seem to help. I just thank goodness that I read to check the system temps when first building a computer, otherwise I could have severely damaged my CPU and mainboard.

The online store that I bought the barebones kit says it will not accept any returns on CPUs unless they are suspected to be defective, in which case I can send back mine and they will test it to see if it really is faulty. I think the time has finally come to send my poor Celeron back as a last resort, but I don't want to do so until I am sure that all my other options are exhausted. I don't want to be without a computer for more than a week just yet.

And so ends the novel of my computer dilemma. Your help or thoughts about any solutions to my problem are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
theCoz
Posts: 3933
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:06 am

RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:51 pm

Do you have any sort of manual for the motherboard? Maybe some wires a plugged into the wrong places.

Make sure to check your energy settings in windows as well. If you make your system never sleep or hybernate, it will go forever when you're not on the computer.
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:53 pm

Why not call teh company in which you got the computer from?
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:07 pm

Thecoz-
I have perused the motherboard's operating manual and it appears that everything is in working order. Also, the problem here is that within 5 minutes of startup, the temperature readings are already reaching record levels. Even so, I have my power settings set properly (I always put the computer in suspend mode when leaving it for more than a few minutes).

AAplatnumflier-
I would call, but this computer is a kit, with every single component made by different companies. Also, the website that I bought the computer off of is basically a vendor, with little if any tech support. I doubt they would be able to diagnose the problem without me actually sending them the processor.

Thanks for the replies so far! Keep 'em coming!
-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
Klaus
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:27 pm

One thing to remember is to spread the thermal paste as thinly as possible to assure good thermal conduction. It helps bridge the gap between the CPU and the heat sink, but if the layer is too thick it will actually worsen the situation. Just use enough to provide seamless contact without any air bubbles, not more.

Wide ribbon cables are also known to prevent proper air flow in a computer... one of the reasons why serial ATA with much thinner cables was introduced. Keeping such cables out of the way may be a good idea.

I don´t know power management with WIntel systems, but maybe it just runs "full steam ahead" all the time so the CPU will never have the chance to cool down. I guess maybe BIOS and Windows settings aren´t adjusted properly.

Other than that... When I´m looking at the intricate thermal design of my PowerMac G5 I´m rather glad I don´t have to fiddle with those problems myself... And with Intel or AMD CPUs the heat production is even more problematic...
 
dreamer
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:28 pm

Hi,
I have a homegrown celeron on one of my computers, and it has the strangest cpu heatsinker and fan on it. It looks like a fan (you know the old style paperfan that women would fan them self with) where each blade is attached to the cpu and spreads out like a fan, on the other end of the "fanblades" there is a rather big fan (blower) mounted. As you say, that system runs hot, always has, and the case has extra fans in it, but the fan that really matters is the one on the cpu.

I think your system is Ok at your current temp. But it would be nice to get the covers back on  Smile

Also as someone said, cleanup airflow (making sure your fans all blow/suck in the same direction, remove unused cables or at least squeeze/strap them away and together.

I wish I could get you a picture of it. I would talk to the guys who sell part for builders and explain what you are looking for, theyshould be able to help you out. Also, i will search the net and see if I can find what I am trying to explain, and if so, post a link here later.
still dreaming after all these years
 
Catatonic
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:09 pm

My system runs at 49, can go up to 60 degrees C, works OK!
Equally Cursed and Blessed.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:47 pm

If it goes over 100 then worry!

60 degrees isn't too bad. You might want to ensure there is an exhaust fan in the case too, as good airflow is necessary to move the heat out of the case. It shouldn't cost you more than a few dollars to buy, or slightly more for an ultraquiet fan.

Have a look round this British site http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ which will give you an idea for hardware. Your CPU isn't faulty, it's cooling that you need to address.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Alessandro
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:25 pm

Maybe you should buy a kit from these guys next time http://www.crusoe.com/developers/devkits_tmta.html
Electricity isn´t for free...

From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
dreamer
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:18 pm

RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:44 am

do check out the overclockers site as mentioned abowe
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Zalman_121.html and look at the flower design ones, that's kind of what I have, and is mounted the same way. They are very good and might be all you need.
still dreaming after all these years
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:14 am

Thanks to all for your helpful replies!

I neglected to mention in the first post that I have tied up any loose IDE cables and I even have a thin-profile floppy cable. I have tried my best to clean up the inside of the case and should have good airflow.

I like some of the products I am seeing in the links you have included. Perhaps one of those products may be the solution to my problem.

By the way, on the issue of thermal grease, should I spread the grease over the entire processor's surface with my finger before installing the heatsink? Or should I simply place a small dab of grease in the center of the CPU and let the pressure of the heatsink spread it out?

I will keep on getting opinions and see what I can do in a few days. Thanks again for the great advice!

-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:39 am

You could always do a water cooling setup, maybe Peltier cooling. And if you really want to get crazy 0C temps, you could get a phase charge setup.
Yay Pudding!
 
Klaus
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:39 am

N243NW: By the way, on the issue of thermal grease, should I spread the grease over the entire processor's surface with my finger before installing the heatsink? Or should I simply place a small dab of grease in the center of the CPU and let the pressure of the heatsink spread it out?

I wouldn´t use a finger to spread it. Use something with a clean tip (fingers are almost always a little greasy) and apply several small dots to the contacting surface (only the ceramic or metal top surface, nowhere else) in order to have it spread out evenly. A single drop in the middle might not get spread out evenly.

Before you set the clamps or tighten the screws, move the heat sink carefully in small circular motions to spread the paste even better.

And the most important point: Be sure that the heat sink sits evenly on the CPU; If it is tilted even slightly due to incorrect fixation or the heatsink being blocked by other components, heat transfer will be interrupted.
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:38 am

Klaus-
Thanks for your help. I may consider re-installing my heatsink and fan in a day or two to make sure I have everything together correctly.
-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
MD-90
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:50 am

I got I8KfanGUI (freeware) for my laptop (Dell 8200). It allows you to manually control the fan settings. My laptop runs cooler now, usually about 50C. Running at 100% gets it up to about 64C continuously.

It's not exactly easy to add extra cooling to a laptop.
 
Go3Team
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:03 am

If the cele is anything like my P4, the way I read to apply the AS3 to your processor is as follows:

1: Clean off surface with a bit of alcohol and cotton ball.
2: Prime surface with AS3. Apply AS3 to a clean rag or cotton ball, and apply to processor using the karate kid's wax on wax off technique.
3: Wipe off excess using clean rag or cotton ball.
4. Apply a rice sized bit of AS3 to the processor. Spread evenly about the surface. If there is a hole like there is on my P4, avoid getting any AS3 in it.

AS3 = Arctic Silver 3.

5. Get a decent fan for your processor. Remember, this is not a place to skimp. Research a good one. Newegg (last time I checked) listed all the specs with the ones they sell. A decent fan will be loud, but will keep your temps low.

By following these steps, I reduced my temps with the stock fan, and compound from 55c to 35c @ 100% load. The temps stayed below 50c as I raised the voltage to the core, and overclocked to approx 2.9Ghz. It is a 2.4Ghz processor.

If you don't feel comfortable following these steps, then get someone who knows what they are doing to do it. Always better to let someone f-up at their cost, rather than yours. Crunching a core is pretty easy to do, if you're not careful.

Hope this helps.
Yay Pudding!
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:14 am

MD-90-
I know what you mean. I'd have a laptop if they weren't so expensive and difficult to modify.

Go3Team-
Thanks for your detailed explanation for installing the thermal grease properly. Once I have my hands on some AS3 (probably Tuesday), I'll give it a shot. I just wish I had some info on the Celeron's normal operating temperature (seems no one I know has any experience with the Celeron).

-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
Go3Team
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:43 am

If I remember right, Celes run a little hotter than a normal P4. For normal usage however, I think 50c @ idle would be about the max. It has been a while since I dabbled in computer building, but If I remember right (again), P4 will "throttle" back, if temps get too high. I don't know if the cele has this capability, but even getting to the point where it has to throttle back, is too much. Even though a 60c temp is workable, its not something I want mine to be doing. The cooler the better - more efficient. At the time I built my computers, they were built to do 100% load 100% of the time, doing some distributed computing stuff. I have not had a processor fail me yet (As long as you don't include the time I crunched a core on a brand new AMD XP2000+ right after they first came out, by not putting the fan on correctly).

Good luck.
Yay Pudding!
 
theCoz
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:59 am

Have you verified that this isn't just an incorrect reading from whatever reads the temperature?

Well, here's what I would at this point. I would turn down the air conditioning to my house all the way. Then I'd remove the panels and throw a couple blocks of dry ice in there. Big grin

Have you tried looking on any A+ Cert. message boards to see if they know anything?
 
Go3Team
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:10 am

I would turn down the air conditioning to my house all the way.

The winter before last, I cracked the sliding glass door a few inches, and let all that nice cool air cool the 14 computers I had in the room at the time. With all that, I adjusted the temps with the door. I did not have to turn the heat on once that winter Big grin.
Yay Pudding!
 
theCoz
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:36 am

D'ah! I only have four computers!

I consider myself a bit of a geek, but 14 computers in one room is truely the opitome of geekdom.  Big thumbs up



 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:21 am

Go3Team-
I believe that the Celeron, like the P4, does have the ability to throttle itself back if temperatures climb too high. I also have the BIOS set so that the computer will shut itself down before the CPU reaches 70C or so.

Thecoz-
The idea of a faulty temperature sensor has crossed my mind, yet I have no idea how to test this or determine whether or not the sensor is working. Like I said, I'm running out of ideas; it seems that I have done everything right so far. Getting frustrated. Sad

-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:29 am

Just had a chat with a friend who is more knowledgeable about thinks Intel than I

He reckons the Celery does run a wee bit hotter than the Ploptium, so don't be too alarmed about those numbers being higher than you might expect.

However if you want to go the way of many enthusiasts and get that temperature down, then look fr a higher efficiency heatsink and fan. Heatsink more than fan.

Me? Athlon all the way  Smile with VCool on board
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Go3Team
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:40 am

For die hard cooling:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=120199&Product_Code=9290

-50 to -20 Cpu temps!

[Edited 2004-12-20 02:52:39]
Yay Pudding!
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:44 am

Whitehatter-

Thanks for the info; I guess I shouldn't be too concerned, even though I'd still like the temperatures to go down.

I myself am mostly an AMD guy too Big thumbs up, so this is my first Intel. My 1.2 Duron has served me well, but it is just time for a change. My brother wants me to build him a PC now, and I'm looking at the new Sempron. Looks like a pretty good product.

Nice processor names, by the way. Laugh out loud

-N243NW Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
N243NW
Topic Author
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:48 am

Go3Team-
I like that idea. If I had $1000 to burn, that would be a more viable solution. Laugh out loud

-N243NW  Big thumbs up
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
Go3Team
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:53 am

Durons are also known for their high temps. I've never owned one though.

Nice processor names
I liked the Clawhammer one they had. Sounds mean.

[Edited 2004-12-20 02:54:50]
Yay Pudding!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:56 am

If your brother wants a PC building, have a look at some of the megacheap deals available on the Athlon XP at the moment.

It may be the prior generation but processor speed is at a relative standstill at the moment, and why overprovision when the cost doesn't justify it?

Getting the fastestl processor is just pure willy waving when there isn't a major advantage; look at the top of the Athlon range for someting which is tried, tested and good value. Then spend the money on a better graphics card or larger hard drive that you saved.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
theCoz
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:12 am

Celery does run a wee bit hotter than the Ploptium
LMAO, now that's funny.

Go3Team: For die hard cooling:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=120199&Product_Code=9290

-50 to -20 Cpu temps!


I'm gonna get one of those for my mom's 486DX2!  Laugh out loud
 
Klaus
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:36 am

And this is how it´s done properly  Big thumbs up:



The fastest ones use liquid cooling on top of it; And the kicker is that they´re all very quiet...

http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html
 
mas a330
Posts: 1476
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RE: Help! My Computer's Running Too Hot!

Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:01 pm

why not switch it off Big grin

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