QANTASforever
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The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:07 am

The United States has a long and historic bond with what was centuries ago, the British Empire. This long association, which later spawned a war (and later on still - independence) was (as would be expected) central to the formation of the federated states.

Seeing as the United States has had this association, I've often wondered why the United States never became a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. The USA would be free to enter the organisation at any time.

Why not now?

QFF
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mdsh00
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:13 am

I would think that there is no need. Britain and the US didn't really warm up to each other until the end of the 19th century. By then the two countries had diverged a great deal. Plus, don't the commonwealth nations recognize the Queen as the head of State? If so, I believe that wouldn't go too well here at home.  Big grin

EDIT: Okay I just read your other post. So the Queen isn't the head of State.

[Edited 2004-12-22 22:15:44]
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:19 am

Uh, no - absolutely not. Commonwealth members recognise the Queen as the head of the Commonwealth of nations - like how UN members recognise Kofi Annan as Secretary General.

It does NOT mean that the Queen is recognised as the head of state. Although there are a few nations who are also commonwealth members who equally share the Queen as their head of state.

The Commonwealth is a voluntary organisation - like the UN or APEC. It is a discussion forum and a large sporting body.

So again - Why isn't the US considering joining?

QFF
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Jetsgo
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:49 am

Wouldn't that contradict the whole point of the Revolutionary War?


Chris
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:00 am

Why would it?

It isn't the British Commonwealth - it is a collection of nations. I don't understand how your independence from the United Kingdom would have anything to do with it.

QFF
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mdsh00
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:07 am

Perhaps it's the historical basis and ideological overtones. The US spent many years of it's early life trying to differentiate itself from Britain. Although there are similarities, there are probably more differences between the US and Britain vs. say Canada or Australia. Besides, do you really want the US getting into the Commonwealth Games?  Laugh out loud
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:36 am

Mdsh00 - Yes, we would like someone who could potentially beat us. Would make a nice change.

But in all seriousness it has nothing to do with the United Kingdom specifically.
Canada, Australia and the US are extremely different from the United Kingdom and I'm not sure how they are less different than the US is to Britain?

Many nations have fought wars to defeat British domination - many african countries for instance which now form part of the commonwealth of their own accord.

Remember - It is not the BRITISH commonwealth. It is as British as it is Australian, Tongan, Canadian, Nigerian, South African, Nauruan etc.

Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Virginia are all commonwealths - it just literally means - the common wealth of a group of people/nations/government etc.

So again, why not join?

QFF
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mdsh00
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:38 am

I don't know then. *shrug*
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csavel
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:39 am

It isn't the British Commonwealth of Nation's but it used to be and it did grow out of empire. That historical connotation is still there for Americans. I doubt that American would cotton to recognizing the Queen as anything. Anything that smacks of British loyalism is a sore point amongst some quarters here - still! Sort of why the word Tory is a synonym for traitor in the US where it is just a name for the conservative party in the rest of the English speaking world.

And hell, half of the US believes that the antichrist dwells at the UN (My office is right near there and I've yet to spot him - but I'll keep looking and post to this forumif I ever find him) and fly in unmarked black helicopters. You think they are really ready to join another international organization?
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:47 am

So the US shouldn't participate because the average American might think that the declaration of independence is on hiatus?

I think that is a shame. US participation in the commonwealth could bring with it added gravitas - and perhaps affect change more than what the organisation currently is.

QFF
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usatoeze
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:17 am

So the US shouldn't participate because the average American might think that the declaration of independence is on hiatus?

Well it took two bloody world wars to get the USA to join a world organization like the UN. Remember even the League of Nations never had any teeth because the US never really joined...

The USA has a very maverick and independent streak that goes along with the Libertarian or Classic Liberal history of the country.

And the answer to your question: NO the US shouldnt participate in the Commonwealth because it would do absolutely nothing for the US.
War is a very poor political tool
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:11 pm

And the answer to your question: NO the US shouldnt participate in the Commonwealth because it would do absolutely nothing for the US.

Well, what does APEC or the UN do for the United States? If nothing, why not leave them too?

QFF
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MD11Engineer
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:36 pm

The Republic of Ireland left the Comonwealth during the early 40s and never came back, even though she still has close connections with Britain.


Jan
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Lono
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:39 pm

Cause we don't need too...
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:00 pm

MD11Engineer - but commonwealth membership has NOTHING to do with relations with Britain. It is NOT a British institution.

QFF
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MD11Engineer
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:06 pm

QFE,

But for many Irish, the Commonwealth still smells of the British empire, of which they were forced to be a part of. The attitude slowly changes though, there are talks about rejoining the Commonwealth.

Jan
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Gman94
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:00 pm

Be quiet with this dissent or we'll send the fleet after you. Big grin
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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:12 pm

This smells like a mutiny  Big grin I agree with Gman94 above  Big grin
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BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:14 pm

hear hear GKirk

don't they realise who is boss?
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DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:21 pm

Hey, all Australian were granted their "ticket of leave" in 1901.

So no more tipping our hats at the Pommy governors anymore.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:00 pm

Ticket of leave?????

Whoah - hold up there. You see what I mean about perpetuating stereotypes, Deskpilot??

Gman94, GKirk, and BA380 - I don't know if you were joking or not. Even if you were - what an utterly egotistical and arrogant things to say. I'm appauled at your disgusting remarks.

QFF
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Springbok747
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:11 pm

So no more tipping our hats at the Pommy governors anymore.

Hahaha  Laugh out loud

don't they realise who is boss?

Well..you guys sure are not our bosses! Anyone can tell you that..LOL!
אני תומך בישראל
 
gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:23 pm

Gman94, GKirk, and BA380 - I don't know if you were joking or not. Even if you were - what an utterly egotistical and arrogant things to say. I'm appauled at your disgusting remarks.

Come of it QFF, Do you really have no sense of humour at all? Sheesh  Yeah sure  Insane
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Gman94
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:30 pm

Gman94, GKirk, and BA380 - I don't know if you were joking or not. Even if you were - what an utterly egotistical and arrogant things to say. I'm appauled at your disgusting remarks.

Me thinks someone needs to lighten up a bit.  Sad
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BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:41 pm

Sense of humour? Surely there is no place for humour in aviation matters...
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DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:52 pm

Qantasforever said

"...Ticket of leave?????

Whoah - hold up there. You see what I mean about perpetuating stereotypes, Deskpilot??


Sorry Qantasforever, I assumed you received your "ticket of leave". Gman94, Gkirk and BA380, do you think Qantasforever has earned his freedom ?
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:56 pm

alright then he is free
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DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:59 pm

But not free of Australia's convict, ocker, unsophisticated past.....
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:04 pm

hey that is so outrageous. you should be ashamed of yourself. where were you dragged up? i think you should voluntarily resign from airliners.net and whip yourself with birch twenty times.

 Wink/being sarcastic
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:13 pm

Come of it QFF, Do you really have no sense of humour at all? Sheesh

No. I have no sense of humour. None. Nada. I love it when people make fun of other people's countries - it's great!

Sorry Qantasforever, I assumed you received your "ticket of leave". Gman94, Gkirk and BA380, do you think Qantasforever has earned his freedom ?,

My freedom is mine to assume, and not yours to give. I recommend Deskpilot that you do not encourage these armchair imperialists lest they be in the running for the 2005 Prince Phillip award for unabashed imperalism in the 21st Century.

But not free of Australia's convict, ocker, unsophisticated past.....

Actually I am. I have no convict blood in me whatsoever - no British blood either. So while this whole Kath and Kim, yobbo, trash culture may be your heritage - it sure as hell aint mine.

Seemingly the only Australian patriot on a.net....

Qantasforever.
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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:18 pm

Obviously not a true patriot if your not proud of your country's past?
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:24 pm

Lol - not proud of my country's past? Am I supposed to be proud of everything that has happened in Australia?

What event(s) in history am I apparently not proud of?

QFF
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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:26 pm

Well surely your proud of Steve Irwin's appearance on TV?  Big grin
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BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:26 pm

given the bitching between the Brits and the Ozzies in this thread, I can't IMAGINE why the Americans don't want to join our disfunctional little club!
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:29 pm

GKirk - Don't mess with Australia. I owe that country way too much not to defend it. I'm dead serious here. Don't go there.

GKirk - may I ask - are you Scottish or living in Scotland?

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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:30 pm

Scottish living in Scotland. Dont give a toss about the Queen or he commonwealth
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:35 pm

Well, considering the fact that I would NEVER ridicule Scotland - why are you and others so keen on going after Australia? What has Australia ever done to you? Or is it just that it is a national passtime in the UK to belittle Australia?

I'm really trying to understand why you guys keep doing this.
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DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:35 pm

QFF, is this past OK ?

<
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
BA380
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:41 pm

cos we are jealous that you have great weather, a great outdoorsie lifestyle (impossible here, it's too cold and wet), a less stiff and tedious culture and you whip us in most sports even though there are only a few of you living there, lower houseprices etc etc etc

so i guess we do it in a misguided attempt to make ourselves feel better

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:42 pm

QFF, I admire your patriotism. I wonder about your ability to handle gentle ribbing by others.

This is mild "piss taking" compared to what occurs in the ongoing US vs Europe battles in this forum.

No one is slagging off at Australia.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:43 pm

Hey, we ridicule Kirkie and Scotland all the time: Myself, Banco, Andreas, JGPH1A, Klaus, OYJRA.... especially if he starts flooding us!

Or just what else can you do with a nation that invented HAGGIS and deepfried Mars bars!  Wow!
(The invention of whisky on the other hand compensates a little bit....  Wink/being sarcastic )

Jan

[Edited 2004-12-23 13:44:50]
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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:46 pm

QFF, I am not slagging off Australia, just having a laugh. If you want to have a laugh at Scotlands expense, go ahead I wont get offended as long as it's just a joke  Big grin

And you should hear what I say about those Germans...dirty pansies that they are  Big grin
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MD11Engineer
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:49 pm

Well, Kirkie,

Practice your flooding first!  Wink/being sarcastic

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:49 pm

DeskPilot - YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Sir Les - one of the few knighted Republicans. He is a good pal of Gough's - and we all know Gough's views on the matter.

Oh I do indeed have a soft spot for Sir Les - brilliant fellow.

(Also am astonished at similarities between the Hon. Sir Les and Senator Michael Fawshaw.)

Anyway - Look, I realise that the means I go about enounciating my patriotism may be a little unconventional - some may say "manic"  Big grin - but I know what respect is. I know what a joke is. And I find when a person from one country talks about a person from another country as being beneith them - or that their country somehow owns another's country - that is not respect, that is arrogance. And I won't put up with it.
I don't want Australia to be a nation of lovable dimwits - I believe we are passionate, and worthy of the respect of the world - the United Kingdom included. That is where I am coming from - we are more than a former colony..... some people need to accept this fact.

I'm being absolutely honest here - when I look back and see all that Australia has done for me and my family, it actually hurts when people make out like the nation is a living joke.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
DeskPilot
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:51 pm

GKrik said

"..Well surely your proud of Steve Irwin's appearance on TV? .."

A red rag to a QFF bull !

By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:53 pm

QFF, Nobody is having a dig at Australia. Christ man, I've got relatives living down there and I would very much like to visit Australia.
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QANTASforever
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:59 pm

Gkirk - but you are having a dig at Australia - and it's not funny. Put yourself in my position. Imagine having people from a European country continually joke about how they were somehow more important, of a higher caste, and that the nation you grew up in was their "property". The joke wears thin after 20 years of hearing it - BELIEVE ME.

QFF
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gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:02 pm

QFF, ok, but imagine living right next door to England  Big grin You can't get any worse than that
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MD11Engineer
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:05 pm

QFF,

What do you think what kind of jokes I´ve got to listen to whenever I´m in Britain or Ireland? Or from my American and British colleagues at work?
There are some jokes I accept because they come from Brits, Yanks, Russians and Irish, who just don´t know better, but if a German would e.g. throw the Nazi salute into my face I´d get pissed off very fast.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
gkirk
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RE: The USA - Why Not A Commonwealth Member?

Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:06 pm

*Just dont mention the war*  Big grin
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