rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
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Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:17 pm

But By Who!!!!!!!!

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country.

And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York,.......... shot down the plane over Pennsylvania........... and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

This was said while talking to the troops just a few days ago.....I thought the original story was that the Terrorist crashed the plane into the field....Did Donald do a big ooops......there were repots that they found doors and bagagge up to ten miles away but they were discounted quickly in the early days.......I think Donald did a big MUFF........

Makes me now wonder about AA77.......It is funny that all of the streetlight poles in the supposive glide angle were not even touched

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html

Read it for yourself.....
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:28 pm

Sounds like a mere semantics issue to me, unless Al-Qaida has an air force with its own planes operating in the US...Rummy picked the wrong word, thats all, or had a slight slip of the tongue (less likely IMO, since I dont believe UA 93 was shot down personally, but thats just me)...the people who form the subject of this sentence are all referring to terrorists, so if you fit that into the quote (I added it in there), it wouldnt make grammatical sense at all for it to refer to the USAF shooting down UA 93...

"people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, (people who) shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate,"

Sorry if what I'm trying to say isn't that clear, but I cant really spit out what Im trying to say into words that clearly at the moment...I apologize in advance, maybe one of you understands and can clarify for everyone else...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:33 pm

Why does Rummy always get a pass......GREG........how in the hell do you have a slip of tounge like that......

Rummy need to go......he continues to prove everytime he gets in front of the mic to prove his incompetance.......He is nothing but a Corporate Kronmie.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
xjramper
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:23 pm

Care to have his job then?

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
tbar220
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:27 pm

XJ,

What does that have to do with the discussion?
NO URLS in signature
 
cfalk
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:48 pm

Big f&cking deal. Why do people have to search for every little word as evidence of incompetance? Get a life.

Anyway, if you'll read the 9/11 report, you'll see that they could not have shot down that plane over Penn., because they didn't know where it was at the time.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:52 pm

i met a guy from an F-18 Squadron that claimed he knew the pilot that fired the missile that shot that plane down..... i always wondered about that....

what really matters is that those people lost their lives....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
AA777
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:05 am

It was shot down. Debris was scattered over miles.

The Pennsylvania state police said debris from the crash has shown up about 8 miles away in a residential area where local media quoted some residents as seeing flaming debris from the sky.

But investigators were unwilling to say whether the presence of debris in two separate places evinced an explosion.


Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly six miles from the immediate crash scene.


If the plane crashed, or reportedly "nosedived" into the ground, debris would not fly 8 miles away.... not even 6. There is no way that would happen. Mostly small pieces of debris less than 2 feet long. What does that say? It says mid-air explosion and breakup to me. The idea of the american heros is nice.... and it is probably true. However, its also probably true that the plane was shot down...... there is one crater, and a small bit of debris.... where was the plane?? If debris was scattered all over the place, MILES away, it is impossible that it could fly that far.

-AA777

http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_secondary_debris_field.html look at the website, and its links, where it got its information from; newspaper reports etc.
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:09 am

Could the man hijacking the plane have pushed the engines to hard and had it gone into a deep descent....caused by the terrorist trying to crash the plane..... causing an explosion somewhere in the plane or even an engine explosion?. I do think it is kind of weird that that plane was shot down and none of the other ones werent.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:37 am

Big f&cking deal. Why do people have to search for every little word as evidence of incompetance? Get a life.

You responded, Charles, so who doesn't have the life?

I think he just mis-spoke, to be honest, or he let go a big secret that wasn't intended. I think the former is most likely.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:45 am

This coming from the guy who doesn't have the time to personally sign a death letter to the family of fallen soldiers. Makes me sick...
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:09 pm

met a guy from an F-18 Squadron that claimed he knew the pilot that fired the missile that shot that plane down..... i always wondered about that....

Where'd ya meet this Hornet driver (was he a pilot?)/what was he doing letting sensitive information out? (if he wasn't BS-ing you about it, and if it were somehow true, he'd be blurting out something that shouldn't be said)....if he were talking to you about it, I vote he was just joshing you.

I vote that it was just a slip of the tongue....nice try Rsmith. Try again.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:56 pm

Oh gezus, not this shit again.

People, the aircraft was nosedived into the ground intentionally by terrorists. There was no indication at all on the cockpit voice recorders of an "impact" by a missle or any other means of weapons. The tapes were heard by family members. There was a photograph released shortly after 9/11 showing a mushroom cloud from the aircraft a few seconds after impact. There was absolutely no sign of trailing smoke. Zero. None. Nadda.

Although Cheney had given authorization to shoot down UA 93, it did not happen. Besides, if they did shoot it down, what would they have to gain by covering it up? The military would have been given credit for potentially saving hundreds even thousands of more live by downing this aircraft.

Some people have waaaay to much imagination.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:57 pm

Agree with everything you said in your post, Boeing_nut.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:30 pm

BoeingNut hit it right on the head....those grizzly CVR tapes showed well enough the gravity of what happened. Trust me, when you splash a jet that big, people tend to notice....that 757 became a lawn dart right into the dirt, just as all the evidence shows.

If anything, if a shootdown did occur, the pilot who did it would have been public by now, and would have felt heavy for calling Fox 2, but would also have been hailed as a hero for doing his duty in a time when guts were the only thing keeping that jet off of the Whitehouse lawn. I could only respect a man who could pull the trigger and do that sort of job.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:35 pm

So How do you exactly have a slip of the tounge and say...... shot down the plane over Pennsylvania............thats not exacly somthing your brain would tell the mouth to say if it never happend.


Truth Does Have a Funny Way of Revealing itself, I wonder if someone in the pres this week will ask him to clarify.....Doubt It!!!!
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:45 pm

Got ya a fresh bottle of both of your favorites...


DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
solarix
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:43 pm

Listen to these ATC comms.


I would imagine if the plane was shot by a missle someone would have said something. Pilots do mention seeing black smoke but it sounds like the plane had already hit the ground.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:23 pm

So How do you exactly have a slip of the tounge and say...... shot down the plane over Pennsylvania............thats not exacly somthing your brain would tell the mouth to say if it never happend.

Again, it was a slip of the tounge. The aircraft was not shot down. Get over it and get on with your life.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:52 pm

Well first we should note that the link is a RUSH transcript, so it's not perfect like some done a few days later is. So he could have said brought down, and the transcriber may have miss heard.

Even if he did say shot down, it's simply a slip of the tongue because it would actually look better for the administration of they shot it down.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
StowAway
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:25 am

Rsmith, you a paying a great disrespect to the people who died on 9/11 by using exaggerations to push your hatred against the current administration. I always say this about your posts...... it is asinine, and sickening.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:54 am

Stowaway


Wanting to know the truth is not disrespectful. Rummy can make mistakes...slips of the tounge and he and Bush always gets a pass....no one ever holds them accountable....NO-ONE.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
StowAway
Posts: 619
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:01 am

Oh come on, the liberal main stream media is always licking their lips waiting for Bush or Rumsfield to make a mistake. That is a given.

Look, I never mind a slip of the tongue every now and then. None of us really know what it is like to be in those shoes. I do mind when people like yourself are constantly on the hunt for something to blow out of proportion. Make it constructive, or just keep quiet.

A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:10 am

This coming from the guy who doesn't have the time to personally sign a death letter to the family of fallen soldiers.

As said to me by a 20 year retired US Marine that I work with, "So what, show me the precedent that said he had to actually sign each letter"
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Yu138086
Posts: 163
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:29 am

To other parts of the world, this is NOT news. The plane was reported as shot down by the US airforce almost as soon as it happened. The story was later changed so the American public would not panic at the thought of the White House/ Congress coming under attack.

Rumsfeld's slip indeed.
 
PPGMD
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:34 am

Yu138086,

And most of the world considers the US the great Satan, or some derivative of that thought. Anyways if it was shot down, wouldn't it have been better for the administration for it to have been announced because it was accused to be asleep at the wheel during 9/11. Having a terrorist plane shot down would have proven otherwise.

Also the thought that they shot it down and covered it up so it would not panic the public that there could have been another attack to hit Congress of the WH, is pure bull because within a couple of weeks of 9/11 it was known that it was captured by terrorists and was targeting something in the NE, most likely in Washington DC.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:39 am

Rsmith, you probably wonder why your RR number is a big fat ZERO. I don't have to wonder one bit, the writing's in the sky so to speak.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
AA777
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RE: Great Security: Mess Hall Attackers Filmed Att

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:00 am

Anyways if it was shot down, wouldn't it have been better for the administration for it to have been announced because it was accused to be asleep at the wheel during 9/11. Having a terrorist plane shot down would have proven otherwise.

I wouldnt have been better. The story of people rushing the cockpit and the plane crashing in the midst of the passengers trying to take control of the cockpit is perfect. It has American Heros written all over it. The Bush admin uses it, to my disgust, in their propaganda to support their wars and their actions. I am sure that it happened, but I still think it was shot down. And who says that the pilot of the fighter would come forward? Maybe he has a gag order. There are many reasons why he wouldnt say anything. You all make it seem like America is the same as it was 4 years ago. Its not, read the patriot act. Our freedoms have been impinged upon. Freedom of speech? of expression? Down the toilet, thanks to the current admin.

-AA777
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:16 am

AA777,

Have you read the Patriot Act? I have overall it has many good measures, it has some poorly worded measures, and a couple of down right stupid measures that should be removed. But even with those please detail how you rights have been stepped on by the administration, other than some annoyances going through airport security, I haven't noticed any differences, none of my rights have been removed? How have yours been?
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:34 am

Delta Guy......Said.....Rsmith, you probably wonder why your RR number is a big fat ZERO. I don't have to wonder one bit, the writing's in the sky so to speak.


As in the Movie Gone with The Wind.........Frankly DeltaGuy I dont Give a Damn.

Im not here to pad my ego.....just to present a point of view.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:35 am

PPGMD,

I cannot say that it has directly impinged on my rights, although everytime I fly anywhere I am "randomly" called to be searched.... I am apparently a theat to them.... its discriminatory; because of my name, and where I am from (Arab descent). I of course cooperate, because it has security measures behind it. There is little to no way to change that... but it isnt fun being picked out of a crowd. I am not a fan of racial profiling.

Moreover, your rights, and mine may have been impinged on without your/ my knowledge. CIA can look into your computer files, your email. Anything they want. It just has to be "suspicious". I have a feeling they use that word liberally. It is not what we know, it is what we do not know, that I am afraid of.

-AA777
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:56 am

AA777,
I am of Persian descent. Not only do I fly around regularly, by I also go overseas on a regular basis these days (with a possible trip to Iraq in my future ugh). Two members of my extended family have been denied visas because of connections with the Iranian regime.

Now if anyone was to be profiled it would be me, yet I have an active security clearance (though unused since I finished my previous contract), concealed weapons permit, and rarely get troubled at the airport (and yes I am dark skinned, but I have an Anglo-American name). And I work not only on government contracts, but in other sensitive areas, such of fertilizer production, and in the airline industry.

I don't bother them, and the TSA nincompoops rarely bother me.

Moreover, your rights, and mine may have been impinged on without your/ my knowledge. CIA can look into your computer files, your email. Anything they want. It just has to be "suspicious". I have a feeling they use that word liberally. It is not what we know, it is what we do not know, that I am afraid of.

First off this proves that you haven't read the Patriot act. CIA is still prohibited from directly spying on US citizens in the US. They can monitor you outside the US, but not inside. The FBI on the other hand can ask a judge for a warrant to search your data, on national security grounds, and that you are not to be notified, but they still have to goto a judge, thus checks and balances are in the system.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12360
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RE: Rumsfed....UAL93 Was Shot Down

Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:57 am

Rumsfeld is, for good reason, a #1 target right now of anybody against the war in Iraq in the way it prepared for and has proceeded. Yes, he made a slip of the tounge, and should have said brought down by the terrorists instead of shot down as to UA 93. Right now he has to do a lot of butt kissing to the public and the soldiers under his authority as witnessed by the climbing death toll of our soldiers, continuing insurgency and inability to get Iraq under control. The recent pressure to have him sign personally all letters of condolence of dead soldiers, is political to make his see the faces and numbers of soldiers getting killed over there. He is person for whom the conduct of the USA in Iraq, good and bad, from rebuilding schools, hospitals, water systems, roads in Iraq, to the stupidity of the treatment of Abu Gareith prisoners to Gitmo 'enemy combatant' prision, is in his hands with Pres. Bush.

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