airbus3801
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Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:24 pm

I am ready to purchase a new laptop, and after being a Window's patron all of my life, I am typing this message on an iBook G4 that belongs to my 7 year old cousin. I am starting to love Mac and I love the interface and power. However, I know of the compatibiliy issue and I am wondering if it will really be that big of a problem. I would like to hear from Mac users to and see how the either regret, or enjoy there switch to Mac.
 
theCoz
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:31 pm

I've used a Mac for graphc design for about 2 years. While Macs are far more superior in so many ways compared to a windows/linux machine, I just can't get around the whole compatibility thing.

If you're going to buy a Mac, it's best to have another computer that's windows/linux based networked to your Mac iBook. So what I'm saying is, sure, go for it, but it's best to have another system that is a pc as well if you do own a Mac.
 
jfkaua
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:49 pm

I always see that everyone says macs are better for video editing and graphics.. I have used both imacs and pc's for both video and graphic design. I honestly see no difference. Its not like apple really has any better software for the apple.. and in video renderings i have not really found it to be all that much faster.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:01 pm

Apple makes beautiful machines. The form factor and quality of materials is unlike anything available in the PC world.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:13 pm

Get the PowerBook G4...its awesome  Big thumbs up

Apple makes beautiful machines.

Yup, no doubt about that. Also, you don't have to worry about all the damn windows viruses....I'm going nuts right now trying to ged rid of a worm on my damn XP machine  Nuts
אני תומך בישראל
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:26 pm

Apple is only for artistic people in my opinion. I have Windows and love it. Windows is actually great in my opinion. It is a lot less complicated than Apple in my opinion. Also it is a lot easier to operate.
 
Klaus
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:53 pm

I´m developing software for a living, and I do it on a PowerMac G5 at this time.

All of the software I create runs on other systems, and it´s not a problem at all. MacOS is by far superior to Windows in almost every respect. For me, the Unix core of the system and everythig that goes with it is priceless, even if many "civilian" users may not have the same needs.

A few other points:


Usability:
Apple has always put usability at the top of their priority list, and it shows. After you´ve used a Mac for more than three minutes (hello, AAplatnumflier!  Nuts), you´ll notice that you simply don´t have to fight the system, rather the system is built to support you. Sounds pedestrian, but matches the experience of most people who know both.


Reliability / Security:
MacOS is immune to the tens of thousands of Windows worms and viruses "in the wild". There has not been any worm- or virus-related damage reported for MacOS X so far.


Compatibility:
MacOS X doesn´t have to go to the pains Windows has to in order to be compatible with the Unix world which dominates the Internet and most of the "serious computing" world - OS X is a Unix itself. It can still talk to Windows systems, exchange data and read or write practically all important file formats with the respective software.


Software:
You´ll find that there´s a huge number of software titles for MacOS X, including Microsoft Office if you need that. On top of that, you can run other Windows software (including worms and viruses) under VirtualPC, a PC emulation software under MacOS X. It´s not a big issue.

There´s much less junk software under OS X; Even free- and shareware is often of better quality. Why do you need a hundred titles if only the top two or three are actually good enough anyway? And you´ll have those for the Mac as well.

Some manufacturers make almost identical versions of their software for MacOS as well, and you´ll have no big improvement in such a Mac version on its own; But there is some excellent software that´s exclusive to the Mac, such as the iLife package by Apple or several others you could only wish to have under Windows.

You will, of course, recognize many advantages supplied by the operating system itself that every application "inherits", like moving files or even applications without breaking anything.


Hardware:
Simply try it out. The difference is obvious.
Macs are actually not really more expensive if you´re comparing them with other systems of comparable quality, in many cases the Mac will actually be cheaper.


I have no time to waste on keeping my system alive and running. On a Mac, you´re doing what you intend to do, you´re not wasting your precious free time re-installing your system, trying to fix the latest conflicts or desperately barricading against external attacks.

Macs are not "just for artists", unless that´s what you´re calling a rising number of IT specialists, scientists, students, business people and ordinary private citizens.

We´d still appreciate it, of course.  Big thumbs up
 
theCoz
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:59 pm

Jfkaua: I always see that everyone says macs are better for video editing and graphics.. I have used both imacs and pc's for both video and graphic design. I honestly see no difference. Its not like apple really has any better software for the apple.. and in video renderings i have not really found it to be all that much faster.

Jfkusa, the color quality on a Mac monitor far outweighs that of a PC.
 
MYT332
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:44 am

Well I got my iMac in 2000. In that time I've had 3 windows machines, what does that say really?

However, I find I still need a pc, flight sim man, flight sim!  Big grin
One Life, Live it.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:47 am

I wish they wrote a version of Visual Studio.NET for the Mac, I would love to switch back over  Sad
 
JetService
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:53 am

Airbus, there's no need to ask. You're already hooked. If you like Macs now, you fugging love them once you own them. Contrary to myth, one can live without a PC in the computing world. Macs do everything and most things better. If you are a hardcore gamer, keep a PC handy as your Playstation on steriods. If you're more into computing of any kind, then all you need is OSX. Welcome to the bright side.  Big thumbs up
"Shaddap you!"
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:21 am

However, I find I still need a pc, flight sim man, flight sim!

Have you tried X-Plane? It's far more realistic than Flight Simulator...works a lot better, too  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. I was hesitant to make the switch at first, too, but once I did, I was completely impressed. There are versions for Mac, PC, and Linux.

Ironically the availability of a FS was my last "hang-up" about buying a Mac. I took the plunge, tried X-Plane's demo, and haven't looked back since!

I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
MYT332
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:55 am

Yea I have tried X-Plane and it's not too bad you're right. I just prefer MSFS plus I have one or two other uses for the mickiesoft machine, im sorry to say.
One Life, Live it.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:47 am

I have several Macs at home - my sons each have a Powerbook G4, I have a G5 desktop running MacOS, a G4 desktop running Linux, and an older PowerMac running an older MacOS. I also use a Dell laptop at work running Win2000Pro, so I am quite familiar with both operating systems.

There is no contest between the Mac and Win - I can hardly wait to get home and work on my Mac after a day of frustration with Windows.

Some of the major benefits of the Mac is that the OS and most software anticipates your commands and acts in a more friendly and efficient way. For example, in the Mac Mail client, designating a message as junk not only adds its address to the junk mail senders list (as does Outlook for Windows), but also automatically moves it to the Junk Mail folder. With Outlook, that's a separate operation. You'll find hundreds of similar examples.

On the hardware front, I have not found any USB or Firewire hardware that does not work the first time I plug it in. On my Win laptop, nothing ever works the first time without a tremendous amount of fine-tuning. The Powerbooks latch on to wireless networks in a heartbeat - the Win usually requires tweaking, rebooting, reinstalling drivers, etc. I have still not figured out how to access a network printer with my Dell on my LAN at home. The Macs find it every time without a problem. (The printer has Windows drivers installed)

In fact, our head IT guy in our plant brings in his personal Powerbook to troubleshoot and fix network problems at work, not the Dell he has been issued.

My suggestion is .... get the Mac!

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
airbus3801
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:55 am

Sounds to me like I will be getting an iBook or PowerBook! But I will always keep my VAIO handy......I can't make any problems about it, but I see what everyone is talking about when they say Mac is working for you unlike Windows. Windows is just.....well it's just there, and Mac is so much better! I acutally do prefer X Plane over FS as someone else said here. And, I realize now that compatibility is not going to be an issue, because I am surfing the internet right now, while a windows is right next to me on the same network.

ALL HAIL MAC!
 
jfkaua
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:42 pm


Jfkusa, the color quality on a Mac monitor far outweighs that of a PC.

---------------------
that's absolutely not true. You are telling me that I can't find a better monitor then the ones apple sells? I highly doubt that, especially for some of the outrageous prices of there cinema displays. I use a Sony display with a digital connection and the color are excellent, there is no distortion and just like apples it is a very sleek looking model. and its JFKAUA Big grin

[Edited 2004-12-31 07:43:26]
 
airbus3801
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:48 pm

JFKAUA, sure you can find a comparable screen display for a PC, but the reason why Mac's cost so much is because of how good they really are. Technically, Mac screen quality is slightly better then PC's. I am sure there are some exceptions, but MAC still wins for graphics hands down.
 
gigneil
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:54 pm

Its not like apple really has any better software for the apple..

I beg to differ. The quality of audio and video production software for the Mac surpasses anything available on the PC by 10 years.

Shake, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and Logic are just the very tip of the iceburg.

Pro Tools, the gold standard of audio mastering, is coded for the Mac then backported much later to the PC.

Just for free with Mac OS X you get iMovie, iDVD, and Garageband, all of which are way better than some of the most expensive Windows software.

I wish they wrote a version of Visual Studio.NET for the Mac, I would love to switch back over Sad

Heh. That would defeat the purpose.

The LCDs in Apple Studio Displays are the finest available on the mass market. There are almost no displays you can buy that are better, and the ones that are are many tens of thousands of dollars.

Refer to my comments in the other thread going on right now about switching for my other opinions.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/707886/

N

[Edited 2004-12-31 07:57:05]

[Edited 2004-12-31 07:59:57]
 
jfkaua
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:12 pm


Shake, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and Logic are just the very tip of the iceburg.


Shake 3.5 - Discreet Inferno/ Combustion
Final Cut Pro - Adobe After effects

Here are just two programs that I find are just of equal calliber, if not better, then there apple counterparts.

To me a mac has just never seemed to give room to expand. It seems like you get it in the box, you get some software, and thats that. There are so many more programs for PC's even just the little day to day things that just make them seem like such a better choice then an Apple. Also, it is alot harder to replace things inside an apple (talking more about the imacs here) The average joe would be alot more intimidated by replacing RAM in an imac then in a PC tower.

[Edited 2004-12-31 08:15:26]
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:16 pm

Adobe after affects does not come close to Final Cut Pro. I cannot speak for Shake as I do not use it, but Final Cut Pro.

I made the switch to Mac about 18 months ago, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone could prefer a PC.

j
 
Klaus
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Jfkaua

Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:41 pm

Jfkaua: Here are just two programs that I find are just of equal calliber, if not better, then there apple counterparts.

Almost every test report I´ve read so far seems to come to a different conclusion. Sorry, not my department, so I can´t comment from my own experience.


Jfkaua: To me a mac has just never seemed to give room to expand.

That was never true since the original Mac (the type introduced in 1984) was retired.

Today, all Macs are easily user-configurable. Apple introduced both USB and FireWire to the market for easy and compatible expansion.


Jfkaua: It seems like you get it in the box, you get some software, and thats that. There are so many more programs for PC's even just the little day to day things that just make them seem like such a better choice then an Apple.

Since you´ve obviously never looked for anything for the Mac, it´s not hard to see how you could come to that false conclusion.  Smile

There are tons of add-ons both in hard- and in software. And the common trait is: They actually work right out of the box as they should. Imagine that!  Wink/being sarcastic


Jfkaua: Also, it is alot harder to replace things inside an apple (talking more about the imacs here) The average joe would be alot more intimidated by replacing RAM in an imac then in a PC tower.

Hardly:



Apple - iMac G5 - Design

It´s in fact much easier than with the average PC.

If you want to use PCI or AGP cards, get a PowerMac; If you don´t need those and compact design is a priority, get an iMac. Simple as that.


There is a consistent trend that people who have actual experience with both WIntel machines and Macs typically choose the Mac when given the choice. You obviously don´t know anything about "the other side", but I can only recommend you to change that.
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:16 am

Klaus,

USB was an Intel product. Firewire, was a mac product.

But it's simply a matter of preference, I have been using PC's for years, I have a G4 running OS X for support reasons. I never find that I have to fight a PC, nor have I had any viruses, worms, spyware, none of it.

And Unix compatibility is not anything special, almost every OS runs a version of the TCP/IP stack written for Unix released under the BSD. As long as you are running the same file sharing protocol I can transfer files all day, between Windows and Unix.

Many programs that the average user may need, may be available for Mac, but very few of the specialized business software are available.


[Edited 2004-12-31 16:22:42]
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
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clickhappy
Posts: 9042
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:23 am

With the rumors of a low cost ($500?) iMac making the rounds I am sure more people will be taking the plunge. The only lame thing is that they are saying it will be a "pizza box" design. Ugh! Can you say Performa 415? Come on Apple, give us a cube, or a triangle, but not another pizza box!
 
Klaus
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Ppgmd

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:55 am

PPGMD: USB was an Intel product.

Sure. It just wasn´t introduced to the market by anybody but Apple.

PPGMD: Firewire, was a mac product.

An Apple invention, but not a "mac product".


PPGMD: But it's simply a matter of preference, I have been using PC's for years, I have a G4 running OS X for support reasons. I never find that I have to fight a PC, nor have I had any viruses, worms, spyware, none of it.

Good for you... But not everybody is a Windows expert. And according to the number of Windows-specific attack attempts (which are thus harmless for my Mac) I can see here every day, you need to stay alert all the time.

Having a good pump and strong arms is nice, but not having a leaky boat in the first place is still preferable.


PPGMD: And Unix compatibility is not anything special, almost every OS runs a version of the TCP/IP stack written for Unix released under the BSD. As long as you are running the same file sharing protocol I can transfer files all day, between Windows and Unix.

When I look at the awkwardness often introduced by Windows servers and dependencies introduced for Windows clients, it´s a different picture. No big deal for most, but clearly an indication of inconsistencies.

For cross-platform development, Windows is always the odd man out. And Microsoft does everything to preserve and even increase the incompatibilities! It´s a constant destructive force in an industry which desperately needs more open standards and fewer tactical proprietary interfaces.


PPGMD: Many programs that the average user may need, may be available for Mac, but very few of the specialized business software are available.

If you´re absolutely dependent on those, you can a) request a Mac version from the manufacturer and b) use VirtualPC if still necessary. If you depend on Windows, too bad. But most people fortunately don´t.
 
SE210Caravelle
Posts: 256
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:05 am

For all the reasons above get a Mac. Windows people often comment on how their systems are better while in reality they have never even used a mac. Truth be told I have never really used a Windows system, but then again there is no need to: I have a Mac.

Mac's are beautiful, sleek machines compared to those of Windows. Get A Mac!!

Happy New Year!!!,

SE210Caravelle  Smile
 
PPGMD
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:19 am

Good for you... But not everybody is a Windows expert. And according to the number of Windows-specific attack attempts (which are thus harmless for my Mac) I can see here every day, you need to stay alert all the time.

Of course windows is attacked, considering that they are at least 90% of the consumer computers attached to the net. But that's the reason that oil tankers have two hulls, every user should have a firewall with an internet connection, even the Windows firewall will protect you against all of the worms once activated.

Sure. It just wasn´t introduced to the market by anybody but Apple.

Apple is the first, and still one of the few to go all USB, but USB was on the market, for at least 6 months before Apple decided to take the plunge.

An Apple invention, but not a "mac product".

Semantics, is was a product first put out by Apple, and later released to the IEEE.

For cross-platform development, Windows is always the odd man out. And Microsoft does everything to preserve and even increase the incompatibilities! It´s a constant destructive force in an industry which desperately needs more open standards and fewer tactical proprietary interfaces.

Microsoft wants to make money, you do that by increasing market share. They are doing what any other company would do in their position. Apple has a history of doing that themselves, and are even doing it now, look at what is happening between Real Networks, and Apple, with the iPod product.

If you´re absolutely dependent on those, you can a) request a Mac version from the manufacturer and b) use VirtualPC if still necessary. If you depend on Windows, too bad. But most people fortunately don´t.

Hahaha, not unless there is a significant movement to Macs (unlikely) will any of these companies think of completely rewriting their programs, it's also unlikely that competition will come along in these niche sectors.

And VPC sucks, and will probably suck for all time. I use it on a daily basis, but not for anything critical (I use it so I can run all the MS OSs from one machine, using VPC images). The speed even on the Dual G5's is sub-par, it's great for that occasional time that you have to go into Windows to work on something, but if someone uses it on a day to day basis, it's almost painful.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:22 am

Good for you... But not everybody is a Windows expert.

Just to add to that with an example .... we bought my mother an iMac 4 years ago to surf the 'net and send and receive emails. Other than a couple of ISP related problems which I had to help get resolved long distance (we live 1200 miles apart) she has not had any problems. My sister, her husband and 3 kids, who have always had Win machines, have not been able to keep everything working on their PC without the help of a neighbor who also happens to be an IT professional. (In fact, he also has a Mac at home, although he works with Win and Unix in his job.)

I'd like to echo what others have said above - people who are familiar with both platforms tend to favor the Mac.

Having said that, I just want to say a few words about gaming. For someone interested in flight sims, Microsoft is pretty much the standard (did you know they introduced the first flight sim for the Mac in 1984?), and that is not available for Mac. X-Plane for Mac (or Win) is a fantastic product, it's even FAA approved for simulator training, but if you want MS flight simulator, you're stuck with Win. Also, be aware that a Powerbook or iBook (or a Win laptop, for that matter) will not run a flight sim like a desktop of similar cost.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
gigneil
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:04 am


And Unix compatibility is not anything special, almost every OS runs a version of the TCP/IP stack written for Unix released under the BSD. As long as you are running the same file sharing protocol I can transfer files all day, between Windows and Unix.


Windows doesn't use the BSD stack. It uses a horrible, single threaded bastardization of Windows Sockets. Windows IP performance is extremely low comparatively.

To me, anyway, Unix compatibility is more than just file sharing, in fact I don't use any of the file sharing features. I need a lot of business-critical Unix applications which have either limited or nonexistant Windows counterparts, and I also prefer to interact with the shell for a very large portion of my day to day work. I could have a Windows machine for office applications and a Unix machine for my other work, but its easier and more cost effective to just have one Macintosh.

X-Plane is fine. Its not great, but its fine. If you want X-Plane, get a Power Mac.

N
 
airbus3801
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:54 am

The windows firewall does on a scale of 1-10, a 5 or 4. If you want to have real protection on a windows, you need to buy something like Norton or McAfee (which I hate, go Norton!). But with Mac, you don't have to worry at all.

But just one question. I am not a person who is very familiar with what processor type is which, so could someone please explain what UNIX is. I understand everything else because I love computers and have 3, and I am on my cousins iBook right now, and I have had no problems whatsoever with popups, or stuff. The only way I keep my Vaio desktop up to par is buy having maximum security with Norton's symantec.
 
Klaus
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Airbus3801

Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:06 am

UNIX is an operating system architecture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

With the exception of Windows, practically all modern operating systems are based on the UNIX architecture (Linux and MacOS X being the most popular ones).


Among other things, this makes it much easier to interconnect separate systems and to port software from one to another.

Windows is entirely separate and not compatible, so it always requires special solutions to achieve comparable results.

Most large scientific systems and even most internet web servers run on UNIX systems, so you´re using them on a daily basis already (even if your local machine is running under Windows).
 
PPGMD
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:33 am

The windows firewall does on a scale of 1-10, a 5 or 4. If you want to have real protection on a windows, you need to buy something like Norton or McAfee (which I hate, go Norton!). But with Mac, you don't have to worry at all.

If you are concerned about external worms, the Windows firewall post SP2 is a 9, 5 pre-SP2. All the ports that the external worms are attacking on, are ports that are blocked under the default settings of the Windows Firewall. Currently you don't have to worry about it at all. Anyone that's been on *nix in a business environment knows that *nix has more than it's own share of vulnerabilities in the various submodules.

Klaus,

Give Apple a chance, compared to Microsoft, Apple is the King of lock in. If they have enough market share, they will lock their users in ways that make Microsoft look like Open Source. OS X is the first time that they haven't tried to push lock in as majorily, but within the company within sectors that are doing well such as iPod, and iTunes, they are keeping the Apple tradition of lock-in alive and well.

Gigneil,

The TCP/IP stack was re-written for Windows 2000, under the re-write more BSD code was used (after all why would the re-write something when they can get it for free).

I also have business critical applications that have no UNIX counterparts, I also work within a command shell for a vast majority if my work (the Windows Command Shell is very good, if you learn how to code for it).
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:44 am

I got a Powerbook G4 earlier this year and I LOVE IT!!!! I use my desktop PC for emailing and internet browsing (plus some downloading) but any serious stuff gets done on the Mac. Don't forget, it's not just the Mac itself that is better - it is the software Apple produces that is genius. I bought Final Cut Pro 2 for video Editing and it is just awesome - so intuitive and user-friendly compared with the Windows programs I was using previously. The only thing with the Mac that has let me down is it crashes too often for my liking - slightly less than my PC does but I was led to believe Macs were far more stable. In my experience this has not been the case, but I still recommend a Mac way above a PC
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
dan2002
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:54 am

JFKAUA, sure you can find a comparable screen display for a PC, but the reason why Mac's cost so much is because of how good they really are. Technically, Mac screen quality is slightly better then PC's. I am sure there are some exceptions, but MAC still wins for graphics hands down.


Dude, MACs use the same graphics cards as a PC does. They mostly use NVidia cards, but ive seen a few with Ati cards in them.

-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
AC320
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:28 am

The Univeristy of Florida strongly recommends Windows-based productsas that is what the networks are designed around. however the only concrete requirement is that students be able to open, use, send etc... microsoft word and office-based documents. does the mac version of Office work 100% with the PC version in terms of exchanging and opening files?

Also the law school uses some programs such as (LEXIS) and services (WESTLAW) that are only accessable with PC-based software. Might I be able to use that virtual PC thing to run those? Is virtual PC included in the ibooks or what am I look at cost-wise?
fuddle duddle
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
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RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:39 am

My Dad uses LEXIS and WESTLAW at work, and it is only PC, I don't think you would be able to use it well, if at all, if you tried to access it through MAC.

If you are concerned about external worms, the Windows firewall post SP2 is a 9, 5 pre-SP2. All the ports that the external worms are attacking on, are ports that are blocked under the default settings of the Windows Firewall. Currently you don't have to worry about it at all. Anyone that's been on *nix in a business environment knows that *nix has more than it's own share of vulnerabilities in the various submodules.

True that Windows Firewall does work, but, I think most people can realize the SP2 is made so that you can't put on any other virus software without having problems. Do you really think that Mircosoft didn't realize what it would do. It's obivious that it's there so that people stop going out and buying McAfee and Norton. Also SP2 doesn't have Virus scan, and only Microsoft companies virus software will work. SP2 is just used to get more money for Microsoft and to hurt their competition so that their daughter comapnies will grow. Also, it shows you how Windows doesn't really want to work for you. The main point here is, you don't even need that with Mac, because there is no Virus!
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:46 am

My Dad uses LEXIS and WESTLAW at work, and it is only PC, I don't think you would be able to use it well, if at all, if you tried to access it through MAC

well that's where this virtual PC thing I keep hearing from mac users would hopefully come in. I'm wondering that'll solve the issue of certain windows only software.
fuddle duddle
 
panam330
Posts: 1963
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:36 am

Just before Thanksgiving this year, actually, I got rid of my IBM for a new eMac- it's nothing to write home about, but it still beats the snot out of a new Dell, for half the price. I love the 'ease of use' factor that the Mac has, and the programs that come with it. I didn't need the iMac (too expensive, and it's just unneeded IMO), so I just upgraded the RAM to 512MB, and it works great. The second I hopped on the Mac, I just started surfing the web, etc- it's that easy to just switch. I didn't have to deal with any of that configuration BS that you do when you get a Windows PC.
For Christmas, I got a Toshiba laptop. When I hooked it up and went on it, I immediately didn't want to deal with the Windows interface again. I ended up returning it, along with all the wireless stuff I got with it, and ordered a 12" iBook, but upgraded to 60GB.
Long story short- Macs rule. I will never even consider purchasing another Windows machine, simply because are easy, quality, virus-free (had a BIG problem with that on my IBM), and the software is excellent. The only thing I dislike is the length of the keyboard cord- 2 feet. Who does that?!
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:39 am

I don't thing VirtualPC would work on WESTLAW because I believe you have to download it from them and pay a subscription fee to their data base.


P.S. Is VirutalPC the program that changes PC programs to MAC or am I thinking of something else.
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:00 am

VirtualPC is the program that allows you to emulate a x86 Computer enviroment. Similar to the emulation used to play old video games on the computer. It creates as the name implys a virtual PC, that acts like a normal computer, but within another computer.

I use VPC to have installations of the various versions of Windows within Windows XP, so I can support it more easily (it's easier to take a person step by step if you are running the same operating system). VPC is also used by Apple users to emulate a Windows install so that they can run Windows applications like Office. Another use of VPC like programs is to allow a single very powerful server to act like several smaller servers, with different configurations.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:06 am

PPGMD: Give Apple a chance, compared to Microsoft, Apple is the King of lock in. If they have enough market share, they will lock their users in ways that make Microsoft look like Open Source. OS X is the first time that they haven't tried to push lock in as majorily, but within the company within sectors that are doing well such as iPod, and iTunes, they are keeping the Apple tradition of lock-in alive and well.

When I´m looking at the respective tactics and strategies, that´s hard to believe in comparison. Just look at iTunes/QuickTime vs. Microsoft´s media environment:

iTunes comes with free MP3 capabilities, Microsoft attempts to lock you into WMA by not even providing an MP3 encoder.

The Windows Media Player spies on you and announces every file you´re playing back to Microsoft headquarters. QuickTime simply plays your files.

Windows forces you through its annoying registration process, which also exposes you to more spying by Microsoft. MacOS doesn´t.

Microsoft is planning to lock you into totally industry-controlled media usage with their (several times renamed since) Palladium technology to come with the "Longhorn" version of Windows; You won´t own anything any more - Microsoft will determine what you can watch and listen to. Meanwhile, Apple is actively pushing the Open Source approach.

Microsoft is notorious for destroying the competition rather than improving their own products; Apple is clearly doing the latter and boosting their market share with quality.

Apple certainly has its flaws, but when viewed vis-a-vis Microsoft, there´s just no comparison.


AC320: does the mac version of Office work 100% with the PC version in terms of exchanging and opening files?

Yes, it does. Testers have even repeatedly claimed that the MacOS version was better than the original Windows one.


AC320: Also the law school uses some programs such as (LEXIS) and services (WESTLAW) that are only accessable with PC-based software. Might I be able to use that virtual PC thing to run those?

If those are only available as native Windows binaries, you´d indeed need VPC.

AC320: Is virtual PC included in the ibooks or what am I look at cost-wise?

No, it´s a separate product (originally developed by Connectix, since bought by Microsoft):
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx

Prices depend on wether you already own a suitable Windows version or not:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx?pid=howtobuy


Airbus3801: I don't thing VirtualPC would work on WESTLAW because I believe you have to download it from them and pay a subscription fee to their data base.

P.S. Is VirutalPC the program that changes PC programs to MAC or am I thinking of something else.


No, VirtualPC creates a virtual PC (or even several ones running concurrently) within your MacOS environment, warts and all. You can install DOS or Windows on it out-of-the-box and run the respective applications as usual. The emulated PCs can still easily communicate with Mac Applications. It´s pretty neat, even if it´s not exactly fast.

Even internet and network access can be made transparent if you really want that (but you can also "pull the plug" with a click), so network installation and/or -updates are not a problem.

I´m pretty certain it will work.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:12 am

Well then there goes my last concern about Apple's products. Guess I'm getting an iBook right away.
fuddle duddle
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:17 am


Windows forces you through its annoying registration process, which also exposes you to more spying by Microsoft. MacOS doesn´t.

--------------
yea thats because all computer savvy people who try to illegally copy the os know that windows is 10x better... no one really wants to rip a copy of MacOs

[Edited 2005-01-01 00:41:44]
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:42 am

StowAway: yea thats because all computer savvy people who try to illegally copy the os know that windows is 10x better.

That will be it.

Just explain to me why most people who actually know the alternative usually don´t choose Windows...? Big grin
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:45 am

yea thats because all computer savvy people who try to illegally copy the os know that windows is 10x better.

Cough, Cough, excuse me, did I hear you right? MAC OS X is just about better then XP in every aspect. May I ask you what you have against Mac? OS X is better if not equal to XP.
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:45 am

what?.. and whos stowaway? I said that... and I am pretty sure people know there are to major OS's out there and most choose windows
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Jfkaua

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:48 am

Jfkaua: what?.. and whos stowaway? I said that... and I am pretty sure people know there are to major OS's out there and most choose windows

Except most of those who have more than just "heard about" the existence of the alternative and have actually experienced it.
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:53 am

Well I can say I've extensivley used both os's and don't get me wrong Macs are a beautifully crafted machine and the software is good, but for me its not worth the money. I find this sums up how I feel this explans how I feel about macs .. http://members.cox.net/clyqz/mac.swf
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Jfkaua

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:16 am

Entertaining, indeed. Big grin

Many Windows users experience some frustration when their painfully acquired Windows knowledge suddenly becomes useless when they´re trying a Mac for the first time. The symptoms ease rather quickly, however, when you´re doing more than just dabbling for a few minutes.

As far as crashes and other stuff are concerned... What?  Wow!

You need to actively work at meeting anything even remotely like what he´s ranting about. Sorry. It´s simply not happening.

You may be able to crash a few pre-OS-X apps (executing in the "Classic" environment), but not OS X.

That rant is wildly outdated and speaks of a severely damaged or mis-configured "classic" system (OS 9 or earlier).

By comparison, try installing and uninstalling a few applications and their DLLs without caution under various Windows versions, change the Registry and see where that gets you...  Nuts

Nice try.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Mac V. Windows

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:25 am

Even though ive used quite a few Macs i cant say that I like them. Its not the design, if you want something good looking get a girlfriend. Its not even the ease of use and lack of viruses and problems for Macs.

I really cannot stand some person peeves with Macs, the one click mouse absolutely drives me nuts, the price hikes (Hell will freeze before i buy an iPOD) VirtualPC albeit nice, is slower than 633 AMD Duron. we all know that hard drives on PCs can be partitioned without having to wipe all the data on them, but AFAIK ive never heard this to be possible on a Mac.

I lust Alienware baby
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

LOT767-300ER

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:49 am

LOT767-300ER: I really cannot stand some person peeves with Macs, the one click mouse absolutely drives me nuts

So connect any other USB mouse or trackball you want with as many buttons as you like. What´s keeping you?


LOT767-300ER: the price hikes

What price hikes? The prices are consistently going down.


LOT767-300ER: VirtualPC albeit nice, is slower than 633 AMD Duron.

Who cares? Windows software is used only in the most dire of emergencies anyway if there´s absolutely no other way.


LOT767-300ER: we all know that hard drives on PCs can be partitioned without having to wipe all the data on them, but AFAIK ive never heard this to be possible on a Mac.

I´ve never missed that. I´ve got one single 150GB partition on my G5´s harddisk. No need to change it. It´s quite possible there are tools that can do that, but you generally don´t have to fiddle with partitioning schemes all the time anyway. Macs are extremely stable and don´t require frequent re-installs of the system or anything else (I´ve had one single one back then with OS 8.1 in my years of using several Macs), so partitioning is also pretty useless most of the time.


LOT767-300ER: I lust Alienware baby

For such a few tiny points you´re sticking with Microsoft and all its abominations? I´d reconsider that if I were you...  Wink/being sarcastic

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