northwest_guy
Posts: 210
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Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:45 am

What is your view or opinion of some major Christian denominations that are considered by many to be different, or even to be a cult? (Such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, and Christian Scientist which are often perceived as cults.)

Of course members of these religions will never call themselves a cult, and will defend against such claims, but I’d like to know how the general population views these religions. Do most of you consider these to be cults, and if so, why?

I am a Seventh-day Adventist, and I personally don’t consider my religion to be a cult, but I could be wrong…
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:57 am

Every religion is a cult. To deride some as silly and others as genuine is hypocritical.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:58 am

Well, we do agree on that, Maverick. Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
northwest_guy
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:05 am

Well, that may be true, but it misses the point.

While, yes it is hypocritical, many things are hypocritical in life...I want to know how the general population views these denominations.
 
Gman94
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:06 am

I'm with MaverickM11 as well, I see all religions as cults.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:07 am

Northwest guy --- It's your belief, therefore it's not wrong if it works for you.

Personally, I consider myself a Christian, but I do not believe that any organized religion will help me in my own life. Organized religions play a key role in the lives of many, however I simply have no time for it in my own life. I seek and find my spiritual assurances in other ways, but I certainly respect the rights of others who do find solace in their churches.

In answer to your question though, the only 'problem' I have with religious sects or "cults" as you call them, has more to do with the extremists we so often hear about in the bible belt and all over the world for that matter.

EXTREMISTS in all religions (Mormon, Catholic, 7th Day, Muslim, Hindu etc.) miss one key teaching in all of their religions: TOLERANCE. I have a problem with that.

God-fearing, church-folk, tend to have a reputation for shunning people who don't conform to their beliefs, be they another skin-colour, a homosexual, a person who's had an abortion, divorce, etc. Throughout history, some of the greatest atrocities have been led by "churches" (and leaders who front themselves as "preechers") and have harmed so many people who were "different".

Looking back in the last century, I wonder how religious leaders would tolerate their congregation taking part in slavery, or the Salem Witch Trials or a blanket of hate against Muslims?

Extremists and "cults" have often bred strong and dangerous levels of ignorance to such a terrifying extent that its members proactively sought to do harm on others who are in some way "different".

No God of mine would tolerate such a thing.

G
 
northwest_guy
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:15 am

Canuckpaxguy, believe it or not, I agree with you.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to be intolerant, or to be belittling, or rude towards any person, whether they are a member of one of the religions that I mentioned above, or not. I myself am a member of a religion that has been called a cult by some. I am not trying to be disrespectful. I only wish to get the opinions of other people from around the nation and world.

Thank-you for your input.
 
dvk
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:17 am

Some of the smaller denominations, including some you mentioned, are regarded as cults by a lot of people because of their tendency to try to isolate themselves and their members, at times coercively, from the rest of society. My impression is that, among the larger denominations, Mormons are regarded as more cult-like by many because of their hierarchy and rigid rules. While Catholicism has its own arcane hierarchy, it's pretty damn hard to get kicked out of the Catholic church, although there are certainly some cult-like factions within the church.

While I'm a believer, I'm not a great fan of organized religion at this point in my life, because too many churches and church leaders have become modern day Pharisees. That said, I don't think most mainstream churches in themselves qualify as cults, because people are free to join them or leave them at will.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
mbmbos
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:23 am

Yep, I think the first challenge is to define the word cult in a way that distinguishes itself from religion.

Anyone care to try?
 
bravo7e7
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:23 am

What exactly do you believe northwest_guy?
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:33 am

Defining the difference between a cult and religion is a whole different topic. Dvk's right in saying that cults don't like to let people join or leave at will, but then again, neither do many religions. So I don't think any "official" definition will work in this instance because we're discussing people's perceptions.

Northwest guy: You're not being intolerant, belittling or rude. You simply asked the question....No worries. Just be prepared for some honest answers, (and of course some petty jabs and ignorant comments).

G
 
northwest_guy
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:40 am

Oh boy...that a hard one, Well the dictionary definition of a cult is
1) formal religious veneration : worship
2) a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3) a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4) a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its
promulgator
5)a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film
or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devout

Other alternative definitions...
A religion which may indeed have all the trappings of a religion - but which in reality is harmful to its followers and/or to others.

Perhaps any religion that departs from the mainstream beliefs?

 
bravo7e7
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:42 am

Out of curiosity, how exactly did you get into this religion?
 
theCoz
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:43 am

Do you realize we're discussing what religions are known to be cults when we haven't even defined what a cult is?


Here's a definition from webster:
---------------------------------------------
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

----------------------------------------------

Looking at definition #1, all religions can be considered cults, provided they worship something.

I grew up Seventh day Adventist as well Northwest_guy. I always thought it was strange that people referred to SDA's as cult members when the only real difference is that we go to church on Saturday; not Sunday, and our eating habits are rather strict.

When I went to baptist church school and went to a baptist church at one point, I found the preaching to be just the same.

Every Christain religion knocks other Christian religions. I think that's retarded.

One religion calling another religion a cult is a true example of the pot calling the kettle black.
 
AA777
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:45 am

(Such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons)

The Mormons are not a cult. A cult with 12 Million members worldwide? A cult that gives millions every year to charities, to education systems around the world, that works side-by-side with the Catholic church for charities... not a cult. Mormonism is one of the world's fastest growing religions... people are encouraged to adhere to chruch beliefs, but, Mormons generally are either very mormon, or end up being inactive in the church; this is because the church has probably the highest standards of morality out there....

I dont think any of the aforementioned churches are cults. I think they all have some sort of important belief, and all are here on the earth for a reason. Everyhting is here for a reason...


I think that the Branch Davidians were a cult....
I think Opus Dei may be cultish.... but probably more just serves as the secretive part of the Catholic Church? (Or are they no longer affiliated?)
The Free Masons..... THEY are kinda scary... I cant ever find any information on their beliefs...or...what it even means to be a Mason...

-AA777
 
TWFirst
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:49 am

>> this is because the church has probably the highest standards of morality out there.... <<

Whose standards? Whose morals?


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
AA777
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:56 am

Fine,

The strictest standards for morals.... And these morals would apply to anyone wh o is christian, muslim, even jewish.... No Sex before marriage, no other relations before marriage, no drinking, no smoking, no gambling, no cursing.... all of those things could be said to be part of the major religions' beliefs, or at least a stronger viewpoint of them.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:23 am

I know of some who consider the 'Mormans' to be a cult, but within their believers are those whom branch off of them with beliefs such as having multiple wives and the like, as in the original form of the faith. I would consider those who broke off of the main of Mormonism to be a 'cult'. Mormonism, while I do not believe in their interptation of Christianity (I am a semi-inactive Roman Catholic), I don't believe they are a cult.
To me a Christian 'cult' exists where they follow some parts of the Chrisitan Bible (the New Testiment), but have the faith forms and behavors that are far from the norm. This can include socially unacceptable rules (mulitple wives, sex with minors/children), unusual, sceintificly bases beliefs (such as Dianetics), monominacial following of an earthly leader (Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sun Yung Moon), live in isolation or only live/work in a group/community of others of their faith (numerous groups) and a radical fear of or do not recognize legitment governments that have religious freedom (such as having an illegal cashe of guns) among the signs.
The 7th Day Adventest are not a cult, (and actually their dietary concepts -low fat, very little meat/diary, big on vegetables are very healthy), but I would consider them, and some Pentcostal style groups and others mentioned in the inital post, not as Cults, but rather as fringe beliefs.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:27 am

"The Mormons are not a cult."

Why not? What's the difference betwee believing some guy found some gold tablets and decided to set up shop in Salt Lake City of all places? Or believing the son of God will come back and save all those that are good? Or believing that salvation follows in the trail of the Hail Bop comet? It's all the same! Whether it's a big cult, or a little cult, it's still a cult, or a religion, or whatever you want to call it. At the end of the day they're either all religions or all cults.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
TWFirst
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:29 am

>> And these morals would apply to anyone wh o is christian, muslim, even jewish.... No Sex before marriage, no other relations before marriage, no drinking, no smoking, no gambling, no cursing<<


Where in the bible does it say you can't drink or smoke? Didn't Jesus drink? Didn't he have wine at the Sader, and tell everyone it was his blood? The largest Christian denomination (Roman Catholicism) allows drinking and smoking and gambling. Why is uttering a man-made slang word for feces (shit, for example) "immoral"??
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:36 am

Every religion is a cult. To deride some as silly and others as genuine is hypocritical.

I don't disagree either. Every religious textbook I had in theology classes self-described Christianity as a cult....

The Mormons are not a cult. A cult with 12 Million members worldwide?

Yup... even more to the point, they are a gnostic cult.

I think Opus Dei may be cultish.... but probably more just serves as the secretive part of the Catholic Church?

Opus Dei I'm not sure of. They are definitly weird, but as to their exact definition I don't know. I put them in the "Rick Santorum's cirlce of creepy Catholics" personally....

I think that the Branch Davidians were a cult....

That's a typical connotation of "cult," but really, holidays like Christmas are cult followings  Smokin cool
 
TWFirst
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:39 am

>>Rick Santorum's cirlce of creepy Catholics<<

he he he... Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
vneplus5
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Immoral?

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:42 am

And these morals would apply to anyone wh o is christian, muslim, even jewish.... No Sex before marriage, no other relations before marriage, no drinking, no smoking, no gambling, no cursing.

Smells like someone who hasn't lost his virginity yet! Big grin

Son, I will shag, bang, bonk, pork, root and hump as many fine young ladies as I want and I may even do it while I'm drunk on some occasions. I don't give a toss if you and your imaginary friends (be they Buddhist, Christian, Mormon or Martian) think that I'm immoral!

Get a girlfriend (or a boyfriend if you swing that way and don't consider it to be too 'immoral') and you'll feel a lot better  Big grin trust me...

Ciao!
 
aerobalance
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:47 am

Every religion is an attempt to control the p*$$y. That's it. Go figure.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
TWFirst
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:56 am

>>Every religion is an attempt to control the p*$$y. That's it. Go figure.<<


 Big grin Big grin Big grin


Hilarious.



But you know, the bigger question is WHY!!?? Pussies are stanky dark caves with teeth in them that ooze mysterious substances... seems like a lot of work just to control them.

An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:02 am

They are all Cults, some have just been around longer than others so are more established than others

Just an aside.
If God is your best friend, and supposedly loves you unconditionally why are you 'God Fearing'?? surely you do not fear your friends, especially ones that create you and mould you in his image....does that mean you fear yourself?

Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
AA777
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:27 am

Smells like someone who hasn't lost his virginity yet!

Son, I will shag, bang, bonk, pork, root and hump as many fine young ladies as I want and I may even do it while I'm drunk on some occasions. I don't give a toss if you and your imaginary friends (be they Buddhist, Christian, Mormon or Martian) think that I'm immoral!


Lol.... your bloody right I havent lost my V yet. But that is something I am proud of.... Its hard to keep in the first place. I am neither a social outast, overwieght by any means, nor am I ugly..... Its purely of my choosing.

If you like to shag...well go ahead and do it. I am not stopping u, nor judging you. Just dont be an A$$ about it and keep ur little boys capped. lol. You wouldnt want baby Vneplus5's running around would u?.... my guess would be no. But I might be wrong. Just think of it this way, every one guy such as myself whio isnt out looking for booty at night, is one less guy you have to compete with. There. That must be a nice feeling for you.  Big grin

-AA777
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:46 am

God-fearing, church-folk, tend to have a reputation for shunning people who don't conform to their beliefs, be they another skin-colour, a homosexual, a person who's had an abortion, divorce, etc.

Er... That's news to me.

Rick Santorum's cirlce of creepy Catholics

LOL!

EXTREMISTS in all religions (Mormon, Catholic, 7th Day, Muslim, Hindu etc.) miss one key teaching in all of their religions: TOLERANCE. I have a problem with that.

I can only speak for the Catholic Church, but the Church does not, nor has it ever taught tolerance. This is because tolerance is a rather shallow trait that on the surface seems to be commendable live and let live attitude, but in truth it excuses us from showing compassion or care towards others regardless of whether they are strangers or friends. The Church's message is to love others as Christ loved, not merely tolerate them. If we are doing it right, we should be acting out of a sense of beneficience that goes far beyond what tolerance expects of us.

Throughout history, some of the greatest atrocities have been led by "churches" (and leaders who front themselves as "preechers") and have harmed so many people who were "different".

Jesus lived among and showed great compassion towards the "different" people of his day. The tax collectors, the prostitutes, the lepers and various others who were shunned by the religious authorities were the very people who were most vulnerable, and as such Jesus believed deserved special solidarity. Tolerance would, however, suggest that we should just let them go about their business without attempting to learn about their suffering or try and help them recover the dignity their plight has robbed them of.

Every religion has its own band of shiite extremists and Christiantiy is no exception. Yes, there has been a lot of death and distriction done in the name of Christiantiy, and I would contend people who support such things are not living the Gospel, or are only selectively interpreting bits they agree with. These people are serving themselves, or worse, are using God as a justification to serve themselves.

Getting back to the topic, cults are hard things to pin down. The definitions given here are so broad as to be almost meaningless. One that is a little more specific would ask what would happen if you were a member of a group and you tried to leave?

Charles, SJ

[Edited 2004-12-31 00:51:34]
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Superfly
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:49 am

Ctbarnes:
I can only speak for the Catholic Church, but the Church does not, nor has it ever taught tolerance. This is because tolerance is a rather shallow trait that on the surface seems to be commendable live and let live attitude, but in truth it excuses us from showing compassion or care towards others regardless of whether they are strangers or friends.


I was brought up as a Catholic too. The Catholic Church I attended was mixed White, Black, Puerto Rican and Asian. That is unusual considering most of Indiana is 'God fearing' White Protestants that would have a fit if a Black or Puerto Rican family moved in to there community. Other sects of Christianity have an ugly strain of overt racism and cruelty to others that are different.
Mainly Southern Baptist and Mormons.
Aside from a few New Age groups, the Catholic Church is the only major religion that is inclusive and people of mixed races worship under the same roof.



Aerobalance:
Every religion is an attempt to control the p*$$y. That's it. Go figure.

And the male penis. Any religion that dictates ripping off the foreskin is SICK!
That is all rooted in controlling male sexual appetite. God gave man a foreskin and a few twisted religions advocate tearing it off.
Also if a religion doesn’t allow eating pork or drinking booze, that's even crazier.


The Mormon Church (the money Church) requires its members to donate 15%-20% of there income to there Church. The Mormon Church is nothing more than a business that pretends to be a religion. There set of values also change depending on what would be monetarily profitable for there Church. I refuse to fly on JetBlue because I don't want my money going to there Church if I can help it. (David Neeleman is a hard-core Mormon). I know many good people that come from Mormon families but also had the common sense to get out.

I strongly disagree with our governments Middle-East policy. The U.S. taxpayer shouldn’t give a damn penny to Israel or Egypt. International Aid should be on a ‘need’ basis only. The conflict between the Jews and Palestinians is all religious based and all the money in the world will not solve it. I’d rather our money go to those that need it such as our friends in Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia that were ravaged by that Tsunami.



That’s my faith-based rant for the day.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
Bronko
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:02 pm

The Mormon Church (the money Church) requires its members to donate 15%-20% of there income to there Church. The Mormon Church is nothing more than a business that pretends to be a religion.

I am not a Mormon but I do know their tithing amount is recommend (vs. required) to be 10% after taxes. Also, if the Mormons are a business, who gets the profits?
Jet City Aviation Photography
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:27 pm

"Faith" is about belief in God.

"Religion" is about human rules, interpretations and judgments.


Some people need "religion" to stay connected to their "faith". Others do not.
Blank.
 
jasepl
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:18 pm

I really don't have a view or opinion on any religion or cult. Until someone begins lecturing me about what they believe in and tries to convince me to sign up. That pisses me off!

To add to the previous post:

"Religion" is for people who are afraid of going to hell. "Spirituality" and "Faith" are for those who've already been there!
 
Superfly
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:59 pm

Bronko:
Also, if the Mormons are a business, who gets the profits?


The Mormon Church.
Duh!  Insane


There Church change there rules based upon what makes a profit. There was a time when they weren't allowed to consume caffine but that changed once there Church bacame a major shareholder for the Coca-Cola bottling company. Mormons aren't allowed to work on Sunday but those 'rules' changed for Joe Montana who was once a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers. The Church's excuss was to 'show the World how great a Mormon can be'.
The Mormon faith is a chameleon faith.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AA777
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:27 pm

The Mormon Church (the money Church) requires its members to donate 15%-20% of there income to there Church. The Mormon Church is nothing more than a business that pretends to be a religion.

Its actually ten percent, genius. Obviously you should do a bit more research or actually GO to a Mormon church and see what it is like. There are no sacraficial lambs, no plural marriage. Its actually quite normal as churches go. So take all of ur conspiracy theories and throw them out the window. You think the mormons make alot of money, look at the Catholic church. It is BY FAR the richest religious organization anywhere. These are respected religious communities, that do so much good worldwide... charities, service, education. You have a twisted view of what these churches do.
AND, both the Catholic church and Mormon Church have worked together in charitable work. OOOOH, maybe there is some big conspiracy to take over the world together..... give me a break and cut the crap.  Insane Insane Insane You need to get a life and stop going online to wierd websites that say that Mormons worship Adam (as in Adam & Eve)...and that we all have parents with plural marriages..... neither of which are true.

I know many good people that come from Mormon families but also had the common sense to get out.

What do you know about Mormonism? Obviously very little, as your words are dripping with hate.... I advise you to look up some credible sources. And I also wonder why you seem to single out the mormon faith against all others..... Mormonism shares many similarities with christian and even muslim faiths. Whats your issue with Mormonism? The gay stigma? All the other religions believe its as bad too.... not just mormonism. We dont believe they should be stoned.... do some real research and then talk, please.

There Church change there rules based upon what makes a profit. There was a time when they weren't allowed to consume caffine but that changed once there Church bacame a major shareholder for the Coca-Cola bottling company. Mormons aren't allowed to work on Sunday but those 'rules' changed for Joe Montana who was once a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers. The Church's excuss was to 'show the World how great a Mormon can be'.

I dont think that was the church's excuse... I think since his profession dictates that he had to work on sundays, he worked. It is not like the president of the church took the time to make some ground breaking decision. His bishop probably dealt with it....and Im sure that Joe Montana went to church on sundays as often as he could.....anyhow, The rule is still to keep the sabbath holy; ie, not working. No rules have changed with that.

What on earth are you talking about with this coke thing? Tons of mormons still look down on drinking coke.... no active mormons drink coffee either.... When you go to a Mormon function, all you see is sprite and gingerale.... coke is a no go... your idea that drinking coke is okay would mean that drinking caffine is okay too-- which-- it is not. So that theory is out the window too.... superfly.... I didnt know you bought into such myths so easily.

-AA777

(Btw, please learn the differentiation between "there" and "their"....)....
 
MD-90
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:24 pm

I would have to agree that the LDS Church has some cultish aspects to it. One of my very best friends grew up Mormon (and still is, of course). I've met her family (Mormons), been to her church (first time I've ever seen water used at communon), and I have a lot of respect for her and her family. But I do not agree with the LDS church. I love the Tab Choir, but I simply do not agree with the extrabiblical teachings of the Mormon faith. I think that Joseph Smith wanted to start his own religion and he made it up. I personally wouldn't say that they're a cult, but I understand the argument that they could be.

And my friend thinks that caffeine is very bad for your health, but I have seen her drink caffeinated soda (never coffee/tea, though).


The Catholic Church is not a cult. I personally wouldn't want to be a Catholic, but they're not a cult in any way, shape, or form. My father is a lapsed Catholic, and his side of the family (in Connecticut) is Catholic.


I do believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Boston Church of Christ are both cults. Christianity can be abused when a person doesn't look at the big picture.

Calling every religion a cult demonstrates that the person making the statement does not know what a cult is or is simply intellectually lazy.
 
Superfly
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:18 pm

AA777:
I am sorry if my post offened you. I know the Mormon Church too well.
One of my best Dyke female friends was once Mormon.



AA777 & MD90:
Two of the most beautiful aircraft in the sky, yet 'religion and cults' divide aviation fans.
Go figure.



P.S.
Thanks for correcting my english.
I was also a Mormon Missionary for Halloween this year.  Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
AA777
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:26 am

I think that Joseph Smith wanted to start his own religion and he made it up

Do you really think he could make up an entire religion that is cohesive, and doesnt contradict itself? He had the equivalent of a elementary school education. So he could read and write....I think even people with college educations could not simply make up a religion... Even if you dont believe Mormonism's teachings, you should, in my opinion, see that the majority of people who are mormon are not cultish, and are genuinely good people... In the matter of religions, I think pretty much all religions have some sort of divine inspiration. Catholic, Mormon, Islam, Judaism, even Buddhism and Hinduism. Every religion has its reasons, they all teach the same BASIC morals of kindness, truth, and goodness. Why does it matter if some believe that Jesus is the son of God, or some do not? One thing that I like about Mormonism is that we dont believe people who are not mormon / not christian will go to hell. Everyone gets some level of heaven for their actions. In fact, very very few people will go to hell.... but thats for another post. Basically, I believe EVERY religion that preaches genuine kindness and goodness should be respected. In my opinion let people believe what they believe, as long as they are good people at heart. Thats what matters.

-AA777
 
Bronko
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:21 am

Superfly: There Church change there rules based upon what makes a profit. There was a time when they weren't allowed to consume caffine but that changed once there Church bacame a major shareholder for the Coca-Cola bottling company. Mormons aren't allowed to work on Sunday but those 'rules' changed for Joe Montana who was once a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers. The Church's excuss was to 'show the World how great a Mormon can be'.
The Mormon faith is a chameleon faith


Joe Montana is/was not a Mormon. Maybe you are thinking of Steve Young? Also, this situation applied to Dale Murphy before Steve Young, and before Murphy, Harmon Killebrew (and many other athletes). Working on Sunday is a personal choice in the Mormon church, not a "rule". You don't get kicked out for working on a Sunday.

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NWAFA
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:32 am

EVERY organized religion is a cult.

I was raised Mormon, and let me tell you it is a cult. Catholics are a cult. Baptist are a cult.
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Superfly
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:07 pm

Bronko:
Sorry for mixing up the overpaid jocks. I hope you catch my drift.  Smile


Religion should be viewed as a "cult" or "club, and NONE shoul dhave influence on government.




It's too bad the Mormons didn't settle in Kansas instead of Utah.
Utah is beautiful, and Kansas is ugly.



Although I am a Secular Humanist, I will defend the Catholic Church because I am sick and tired of W.A.S.P. and Jews bashing Catholisimn and geting away with it.
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TACAA320
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:22 pm

"The Catholic Church is not a cult. I personally wouldn't want to be a Catholic, but they're not a cult in any way, shape, or form. My father is a lapsed Catholic, and his side of the family (in Connecticut) is Catholic"

In some way IT IS a "cult".

Let see

"
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion"

The Catholics ONLY adore God. And WE "venerate" Virgin Mary. By the way our masses for today Jan 1st. around the world are dedicated to HER veneration.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Bronko
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:31 am

Superfly: I did not "get your drift" because I believe it to be factually incorrect. I don't believe the church changed any rules for athletes because I think it was always a personal choice, even when Killebrew was playing in the 60's.

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777236ER
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:19 am

The Catholic Church is not a cult. I personally wouldn't want to be a Catholic, but they're not a cult in any way, shape, or form. My father is a lapsed Catholic, and his side of the family (in Connecticut) is Catholic.

Yet you give no reason why they're not a cult. It changes its mind (origin of the universe, (Galileo), it worships someone who wasn't Godly, it didn't seem too concerned with slavery or the Holocaust, it (still?) covered up thousands of cases where its priests sexually molested and raped little children, it has a system of beliefs and rituals. It lies to people (HIV and condoms). Bullshit about adorations and veneration are simple semantics - the truth is they worship someone who isn't God or Jesus, just as much as God or Jesus. If anything, it's the most 'cultish' of the mainstream Christian faiths.
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TACAA320
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:28 am

As I said Roman Catholic is not only a religion but a cult.

The "veneration" [word that apparently don't like to somebody else] is reserved to The Virgin. The "adoration" to God.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:34 am

I'd say almost every person who's posted so far has a very skewed, biased opinion on religion. Are religions cults? Perhaps they are; I won't dispute that. However, the views that religions are self-elitist in their majorities is a completely bogus argument. Speaking on behalf of the Catholic church, 99.8% of practicing Catholics I know of are not self-elitist by any means. I have plenty of friends who are of other religions and secularists, and I simply do my best to avoid the hot-button topics while conversing with them. Also, I don't know of too many other religions of who's members are self-incriminating. If it weren't for parishoners speaking up against those of the clergy who acted out against minors, the scandal wouldn't have been exposed in the first place. Yes, those priests deserve everything they had coming for them, and the church should have at the very minimum severely admonished the bishops involved in the cover-ups, though I would have recommended removal in most circumstances. Also, hate to break it to you folks, but less than 1% of priests were involved in the scandals, so you can't pigeon-hole every priest as a pedifile. Also, just because I have a certain set of beliefs, I'm not necessarily a supporter of pediphilia. My beliefs coincide with the Catholic church, and I've seen evidence in my own life to convince me so personally, but I won't go pounding down doors forcing people to switch to my faith. It's up to the individual to determine their own fate, and I'm not to judge whether they are inherently good or evil because of that.
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TACAA320
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:45 am

"...covered up thousands of cases where its priests sexually molested and raped little children..."

As Roman Catholic I think that they deserve to pay in the full extent of the Law, if such acts are proved in a Court of Law, AS WELL AS ALL the others so called christians, atheist, agnostic, etcetera, that do the same and worst things.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
777236ER
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:46 am

However, the views that religions are self-elitist in their majorities is a completely bogus argument. Speaking on behalf of the Catholic church, 99.8% of practicing Catholics I know of are not self-elitist by any means

Bullshit. By definition, members of a certain organised religion are part of that religion because they feel it's the right one, which is automatically discriminatory against other religions. Whether you're 'tollerant' of other religions or not, you think you're going to heaven and others will burn.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:49 am

I can only speak for the Catholic Church, but the Church does not, nor has it ever taught tolerance.

I went to Jesuit schools, so my view of Catholicism might be a little off from mainstream Catholicism.... but from my experiences, that couldn't be further from the truth. Not only did the school have a healthy diversity of Protestants, Jews, ect, but my high school integtrated racially a decade before Brown vs. Board of Education.

There are no sacraficial lambs, no plural marriage. Its actually quite normal as churches go

What you must recognize is that "quite normal" for church still means cult. Just because the modern day connotation of cult implies kool-aide drinking maniacs doesn't change the fact that a religous following is, by definition, a cult. And like I said, Mormons further classify as a gnostic cult.
 
prosa
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:04 am

To repeat something I posted on another thread a while back, a useful way of distinguishing between a religion and a cult involves the extent to which it discloses its belief system to newcomers. A religion is happy to explain its system to anyone who asks. A cult, in contrast, doles out its belief system in bits and pieces to new members, often explaining that knowing everything at the beginning would be too "traumatic" for the uninitiated.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
bravo7e7
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RE: Your View Of Christian "cults"

Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:07 am

Dfw Revolution,
I go to a Jesuit school too. Which one did you go to?

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