BA
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Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:07 pm

Lebanese Army discovers 'Israeli made' roadside bombs near speaker's home
Three arrested following discovery

By Mohammed Zaatari
Daily Star staff
Wednesday, January 19, 2005



SIDON: Three people were arrested after two roadside bombs - allegedly made in Israel - were discovered in southern Lebanon near the home of Lebanese Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri. In an official Lebanese Army statement the country's military intelligence said one of its patrols found two bombs early Tuesday morning, which the army added, were made by Israel.

"The results of the investigation showed that the two bombs were manufactured by the Israeli enemy," an army statement said.

No further information was available on the fate of the three people arrested.

The bombs were planted 3 meters apart near Al-Zahrani village on a main road about 10 kilometers south of the port of Sidon. Military sappers defused the bombs, which weighed 8 kilograms each and were concealed in iron boxes connected to a remote control detonator, the statement said. Security officials said the location where the two bombs were defused is about 2 kilometers from Berri's weekend residence in Mosseileh.

Lebanese security officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the bombs were planted in a largely uninhabited area, which they suggested was an indication that an official's convoy may have been the target during the Eid al-Adha holiday.

According to sources, the number "3" was written on one of the bombs, while the number "1" was written on the other. The area was examined with the help of police dogs, but no other devices were found. During a meeting of Parliament's joint committees, Berri seemed unfazed by the proximity of the bombs to his weekend home and attempted to make light of the situation, saying: "I promise you not to use roads planted with bombs."

Read the rest of the article here:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=11963

One of the two bombs was found underneath an overpass. This bomb was taken to a remote location and then detonated.


Military Sappers Defuse 2 Bombs at Highway Overpass in S. Lebanon
Army and police sappers on Tuesday defused a roadside bomb and harmlessly detonated another planted under an overpass on south Lebanon's coastal highway at the Sidon-Zahrani intersection on the way to the market town of Nabatiyeh, averting a potential traffic disaster, a police statement said.
Each of the two bombs was made of eight kilograms of powerful explosives and concealed in an iron box connected to a remote-controlled detonator, the statement said. Local media reports suggested assassination of a political figure may have been the objective.

Army troops and police closed the highway during the sappers' handling of the two bombs, diverting traffic to detours that created bumper-to-bumper jams as an investigation was launched into the incident.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&403E48EA7EF9378D42256F8D00321D25

Kudos to the army for preventing this act of terrorism.
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jamesag96
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:30 pm

"Kudos to the army for preventing this act of terrorism."

Kudos indeed.

And shame on the Israeli's for leaving the "Made in Israel" sticker on it.
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tbar220
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:28 pm

For the first story, it was the "Lebanese Army" which said the bombs were Israeli. Ok...

For the second story, there is no mention of Israel at all.

From a Reuters story, the Lebanese army is quoted as saying:

"The results of the investigation showed that the two bombs were manufactured by the Israeli enemy," an army statement said.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18148822.htm

I take it with a grain of salt. That's the only other source I can find on this story.
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rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:56 pm

Tbar, what do you expect from the Lebanese version of Baghdad Bob?
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rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:11 pm

Three people were arrested after two roadside bombs

Who were the three arrested?
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OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Who were the three arrested?

My guess is Ariel Sharon, David Levy and Binyamin Ben-Eliezer Big grin

But can someone explain this to me:

Why is it that this is questionable because it's a lebanese source?
If it was a Israeli source who said it was a palestinian bomb, would that have been questionable as well?

I don't blame any of the sides. But I just find it strange that every time they find stuff that points against Israel it has to be questioned. But if it's a palestinian bomb or whatever, there is absolutly no doubt about that the Palestinians are bad people.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:22 pm

Think if it was the work of Israel,they would have left the Markings on the Bombs.
Yes it could be stolen Israeli weapons.Used by someone else.
regds
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rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:47 pm

Why is it that this is questionable because it's a lebanese source? If it was a Israeli source who said it was a palestinian bomb, would that have been questionable as well?


Something about Lebanon being controlled by one of the worst dictatorships in the Middle East and Israel being the only free country in the region?
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DLKAPA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:49 pm

Something about Lebanon being controlled by one of the worst dictatorships in the Middle East and Israel being the only free country in the region?

So that's why israel is a shithole and Lebanon is the "paris of the middle east?"
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OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:52 pm

Is Lebanon really that bad as you say it is? Have you been there?
It sure doesn't seem like it. They had a free election. And is starting to become a great tourist attraction as well.
 
nosedive
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:56 pm

Maybe RJ will look at this "non biased" report...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0118israel-lebanon18.html

[Edited 2005-01-19 07:58:39]
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:05 pm

Maybe RJ will look at this "non biased" report...

Nice try Nosedive,
But that won't help anything. We have to learn to live with, that every country in the World except for Israel and USA are evil according to Rjpieces  Big grin
 
tbar220
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:12 pm

Nosedive,

The article you posted is a story of how Israel responded to an attack on its army. Hizbullah blew up an Israeli army bulldozer, which prompted retaliatory airstrikes. Is there any problem here? Your article doesn't relate to the story being discussed here. That's been all over the mainstream media.

About the Israeli army planting bombs in Lebanon, the only sources was one Lebanese source and a quick mention in Reuters. The mention in Reuters was a quote from the Lebanese army saying:

"The results of the investigation showed that the two bombs were manufactured by the Israeli enemy," an army statement said.

Do you see why I question the validity of this story? Its easy to blame Israel when they found the bombs, even though it could have just as easily been the work of militants in the country trying to cause a mess for their own agenda.
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OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:13 pm

Do you see why I question the validity of this story? Its easy to blame Israel when they found the bombs, even though it could have just as easily been the work of militants in the country trying to cause a mess for their own agenda.

No offence Tbar,

But do you honestly think that Israel haven't done the same thing 1 single time?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:19 pm

"The warhead was found earlier this month, and U.S. military commanders believe there are more to be found."

Good job Tbar, way to look at only one side.
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tbar220
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:35 pm

OYRJA,

Of course not, no army in the world is totally honest. But the integrity of an Israeli army statement isn't what I'm discussing here.

DLKAPA,

I have no idea what the quote is from, so I don't know what the context of it is or what the context of your comment is.
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DLKAPA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:43 pm

The quote is in reference to Chemical weapons in Iraq, Pre March 2003.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:43 pm

Of course not, no army in the world is totally honest. But the integrity of an Israeli army statement isn't what I'm discussing here.

Nope. But that is what I am questioning, since you guys are questioning the lebanese army. I just wanted to see what your opinion was on that before you started to question other army's.
 
tbar220
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:46 pm

OYRJA,

Well I don't know what more you want me to say on that. As for the Lebanese army statement, don't you think its also questionable, since it is the only source for this information and quoted only in the Lebanese news media (and one mention in Reuters that I quoted earlier)? That's the reasoning behind me questioning it. Similarly, if the same were with the Israeli army I would question it as well.

Otherwise, I think we're just going in circles here, not really disagreeing but not really going anywhere.

DLKAPA,

I'm still not understanding the context of the quote in this discussion and why it led you to make your comment, you will have to explain.
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OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:51 pm

Well I don't know what more you want me to say on that. As for the Lebanese army statement, don't you think its also questionable, since it is the only source for this information and quoted only in the Lebanese news media (and one mention in Reuters that I quoted earlier)? That's the reasoning behind me questioning it.

I really don't want you to say anymore. I got my answer.
And I appreciate your honesty about it. I just wish more could be calm like you.
But I do question both sides. I'm not only one 1 side in this conflict. And I don't know if it was a Israeli bomb or not. All I know is that someone planted it there. If it's Israeli or Lebanese I don't know. I only get my information from news like the rest of you do.

[Edited 2005-01-19 09:01:23]
 
nosedive
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:56 pm

Hizbullah blew up an Israeli army bulldozer, which prompted retaliatory airstrikes...Your article doesn't relate to the story being discussed here.

1) I got you to open it
2) I wanted to see if RJ would even open the damn thing before he mouthed off.

Now back to the topic at hand, if there is indeed an equal and opposite reaction to everything, and everything is physics Big grin, then this is what you get: a 2 hard-ons on both sides claiming the other guy is a prick. I'll let you chew on that for a while...
 
tbar220
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:59 pm

I don't want to chew on anybody's prick thank you very much  Big grin

In all seriousness, I opened the article because I thought you had found another source on the claim that Israel had planted those bombs, but I found that it was on a story unrelated to the topic at hand. So duh, you got me to open the article.

What I'm curious to know is what you think about the topic being discussed. Do you think the claim is true? Do you think it possible the information is false? Etc. etc., similar to what we've been discussing above.

[Edited 2005-01-19 09:00:34]
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MEA310
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:13 pm

Something about Lebanon being controlled by one of the worst dictatorships in the Middle East and Israel being the only free country in the region?

I'm not gonna bother and answer back this statement,it's obvious through many posts by RJpieces in this forum that this is his, unfortunately, wrong view of the things and one sided opinion.
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miamix707
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:17 pm

So that's why israel is a shithole and Lebanon is the "paris of the middle east?"


Proves that while some teenagers actually have some things to say in these forums, others should not be posting yet.


Not trying to back RJPieces on what he says, however:

Something about Lebanon being controlled by one of the worst dictatorships in the Middle East and Israel being the only free country in the region?


What's wrong with that? Is not like that statement is exaggerated or anything, in fact it's spot on.


Syria, at the very least is a terrorist heaven. Now watch how the others are gonna say Israels are also terrorists.. and the blaming circle goes on and on..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy And yes Damascus has a say in Lebanon's foreign policy, recently causing a division when some in the government wanted to approve policies that would strain relations with the U.S. Some of the members were quite frustrated and angry saying that was stupid, and rightly so.


I'm still not understanding the context of the quote in this discussion and why it led you to make your comment, you will have to explain.

If you are referring to what he said of "Lebanon being the Paris of the Middle east", that was in 1 or 2 Lebanese guys' profiles here on a.net, he probably remebered that and wrote it.


Anyways is not like it would make any sense for the Israeli Army to go and put three stupid bombs on the road in front of someone's house in Lebanon.. For obvious reasons I also take this with a grain of salt.

 
rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:14 am

So that's why israel is a shithole and Lebanon is the "paris of the middle east?"

Aww, DLKAPA, it's nice to see friends sticking up for friends. Now seeing that you put no thought into what BA told you to write, maybe you should rethink that one. Beiruit was the Paris of the Middle East 40 years ago, before the Muslims started a civil war.

You might think that "Israel is a shithole", but it's the most advanced society in the Middle East--Technologically, culturally, militarily, and strategically. But of course BA didn't tell you to say that, right?

[Edited 2005-01-19 16:14:54]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:22 am

Beiruit was the Paris of the Middle East 40 years ago, before the Muslims started a civil war.

Well It might not be Paris of the Middle East anymore. But Lebanon has really turned it self to a tourist magnet. And personally I think that is really great for Lebanon. Especially after what they have been going thru.

And calling Israel a shithole, well I have to disagree with that.
I think everyone knows that Israel isn't a shithole. You are right that they are a very advanced society. I think it's a damn shame that they can't get along with the other countries around there. Because the other countries down there could really learn something from Israel.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:24 am

OYRJA,
Is Lebanon really that bad as you say it is? Have you been there?
It sure doesn't seem like it. They had a free election. And is starting to become a great tourist attraction as well.


Listen, I've never said that Lebanon is a horrible place. It is better off than most Arab countries. It isn't as bad as Saudi Arabia, or Egypt. But to claim that Lebanon is a thriving democracy is utter crap. It is a slap in the face to the Iraqis, Afghanistanis, and Palestinians working towards building a democracy today. It is a slap in the face to American soldiers dying for that cause. Read this and tell me what you think OYRJA:http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2003/countryratings/lebanon.htm

Oh, and free elections in a country that is a fear society is a hypocritical statement. It is impossible to have free elections in a country that is fundamentally not free--I'm willing to bet that you were one of those who thought the USSR had free elections too, right?

Nosedive, and what exactly is wrong with the Israeli military responding to an attack?

But do you honestly think that Israel haven't done the same thing 1 single time?

Of course they have. As has the United States in our war against terrorism. Your point though?

2) I wanted to see if RJ would even open the damn thing before he mouthed off.

Excuse me for not being here to read your article in the middle of the night.

I'm not gonna bother and answer back this statement,it's obvious through many posts by RJpieces in this forum that this is his, unfortunately, wrong view of the things and one sided opinion.

Again, I direct you to: http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2003/countryratings/lebanon.htm

Anyways is not like it would make any sense for the Israeli Army to go and put three stupid bombs on the road in front of someone's house in Lebanon.. For obvious reasons I also take this with a grain of salt.

Indeed. If Israel wanted to kill the guy, he'd be in yesterdays newspapers.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:28 am

Of course they have. As has the United States in our war against terrorism. Your point though?

If you took your blindfolds off and read what I wrote earlier you would get my point. But I will tell you again. Why is it such a big fuzz if palestinians do it then? And if the Israelis do it they always blame some one else or it's just a grain of salt?
 
rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:32 am

Why is it such a big fuzz if palestinians do it then? And if the Israelis do it they always blame some one else or it's just a grain of salt?

There is a fundamental difference between two free democracies (the US and Israel) responding to terrorists attacks, and terrorists whose sole intenet is to murder civilians. If you fail to see this difference, then I don't know what to tell you.

There is no equivocation between a Palestinian suicide bombing and a retalitory Israeli airstrike, there is no equivocation between a terrorist attack on our troops in Iraq and a US airstrike that levels a building.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:38 am

There is a fundamental difference between two free democracies (the US and Israel) responding to terrorists attacks, and terrorists whose sole intenet is to murder civilians. If you fail to see this difference, then I don't know what to tell you.

I am not talking about governments here. And I see the difference.
I am talking about civil extremist Israelis. There is the big difference. There have been several cases where Israeli extremist have killed palestinians.
That is what I am talking about. It might as well have been one of them who planted the bomb there. I don't know if you have noticed. But there are Israelis that doesn't want peace either.
 
MEA310
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:39 am

You might think that "Israel is a shithole", but it's the most advanced society in the Middle East--Technologically, culturally, militarily, and strategically

My God when is this cycle of ignorance going to end?  Confused
Rjpieces do you even refer to some kind of facts or figures before you go praising Israel? There's no doubt Israel is advanced militarily,I wonder who has the credit for that?  Yeah sure
Technology is making its way in all ME countries,at a different pace for sure,but be sure that for us here in Beirut we're catching up with the latest.
No need to mention Lebanese culture..

Beiruit was the Paris of the Middle East 40 years ago, before the Muslims started a civil war.

I don't know much about the history of the civil war & who started it or why.But from your statement it seems that you are stressing on Muslims(correct me if I'm wrong) and therefore anything that has to do with Arab people.Let me tell you though, in this part of the world, at least for myself as a Christian, I look forward & hope for tighter connections & unity between Christians & Muslims.Lebanon is a fine example for the rest of the world to show that coexistence is possible and tolerance is the essence of it all.
And Beirut is regaining its title as Pearl of the Middle East!

MEA310

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rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:40 am

I am not talking about governments here. And I see the difference.

Good.

I am talking about civil extremist Israelis. There is the big difference. There have been several cases where Israeli extremist have killed palestinians.
That is what I am talking about. It might as well have been one of them who planted the bomb there. I don't know if you have noticed. But there are Israelis that doesn't want peace either.


Of course there are always extremists, everywhere. Look at the guy who killed Rabin. It might very well have been an Israeli citizen who planed the bomb there. But that is a far cry from BA's post, which implies that the Israeli government planted the bombs.
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OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:45 am

But that is a far cry from BA's post, which implies that the Israeli government planted the bombs.

You mean this:

"The results of the investigation showed that the two bombs were manufactured by the Israeli enemy," an army statement said.

All I see there is that they were manufactured by the Israeli enemy. And I can't see anything there that mentions Israeli government.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:49 am

No, I meant this:
Local media reports suggested assassination of a political figure may have been the objective.

"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:52 am

Ahh. Oki.
I guess that extremist could do that as well. If they hit Rabin they could probably get other political fgures as well.

And I also doubt that the Israeli government would have anything to do with this. They would have used Apaches or F-16's as they are used to when they take out political leaders.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:30 am

AFAIK, the Lebanese civil war was started byChristian Arab militias who attacked a bus with Muslim passengers in a fight for control of the country.
Someone from Lebanon might correct me.

Jan
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cedarjet
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:30 am

The attack on the bus by Christians was indeed an early event in the build up to the war. There was also an incident in Sidon where the (Christian-run) local gov't revoked the licenses of local (Muslim) fishermen, and some of them were shot and killed by the (Christian-run) army in a demonstration. There were also incidents where Muslim militias did some pretty horrific stuff too. The constitutional basis on which the country was run was basically unstable and gave rise to violence, not all of it domestic - RJ, your beloved Israel invaded and during airstrikes, killed over 11,000 Lebanese in a matter of days.

RJ, you do make me larf. It was the Muslims' fault there was a civil war. Of course! Even though the Christian minority were entitled to 6 seats in parliment for every 5 allocated to the Muslim majority - as you would know if you'd read the report on Freedom House you keep citing.
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DLKAPA
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RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:08 am

Aww, DLKAPA, it's nice to see friends sticking up for friends. Now seeing that you put no thought into what BA told you to write

Where do I begin to... No I cant that would be to mean... but then... Naww it's just wrong... ok fine YOU IGNORANT LITTLE P*SSANT! Just because I have [relatively] the same viewpoint as BA doesn't mean that he's feeding me information and I'm just the dude typing it, my god man how childish are you? You can't back up your opinion so you have to bash mine?

You might think that "Israel is a shithole", but it's the most advanced society in the Middle East--Technologically, culturally, militarily, and strategically. But of course BA didn't tell you to say that, right?

No, America is the most advanced society in the middle east, they just put their stuff in Israel because it seemed like the thing to do at the time. And you know where I learned that? Sophomore level basic history classes. Now I'll break it down for you:
  • Technologically:

  • Ok, but actually NO. All of what Israel has today originally came from America. They may have added to it, but it all comes back to America.
  • Culturally:

  • I can't conceivably believe that anybody can call a society where blowing up one's (insert opposite religion here) neighbor can be considered culturally advanced. And by that argument, even America itself is barely a fleck above the bottom of the food chain. Like father, like son, right?
  • Militarily:

  • It's good that they have the most advanced military in the region, seeing as it might as well be OUR military
  • Strategically

  • Of course a christian country in the middle of an arab world is a strategic position, for America that is, that way they can "Convert the heathens" or "Protect from the evil that is islam" (I have heard both statements on American radio).

    There is no equivocation between a Palestinian suicide bombing and a retalitory Israeli airstrike, there is no equivocation between a terrorist attack on our troops in Iraq and a US airstrike that levels a building.

    What about when the building is an Iraqi civilian safehouse?

    I really hope, RJ, that you are not implying that it is OK for the israelis to plant bombs by the side of the road, but not Ok for lebanese to do the same thing.

    All statements in this post are copyright 2005 Eric Smith. BA had nothing to do with it. Nothing
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    rjpieces
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:26 am

    No, America is the most advanced society in the middle east, they just put their stuff in Israel because it seemed like the thing to do at the time.

    Well of course America is most advanced society in the world, without doubt. But in the Middle East, out of the countries that are physically located there, Israel is the most advanced. So yes, America/Israel, both of whom are very much the same, is the most advanced society in the Middle East.

    Ok, but actually NO. All of what Israel has today originally came from America. They may have added to it, but it all comes back to America.

    Israel and America have incredibly close cooperation on defense matters.
    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/world/iraq/2003-03-24-israel-tech_x.htm

    Israel might not build the physical planes, but they make the planes more capable. If you'd care to read more, check out:
    http://www.jewishnorthshore.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=78771


    I can't conceivably believe that anybody can call a society where blowing up one's (insert opposite religion here) neighbor can be considered culturally advanced. And by that argument, even America itself is barely a fleck above the bottom of the food chain. Like father, like son, right?


    Well if you feel that Israel isn't culturally advanced, then by your logic, America isn't either. So if you feel that way, fine, but at least apply the standard to both countries. I, for one, think that America is the most advanced culturally in the world. And in the Middle East, using the standard I hold the United States to, Israel is the most advanced culturally.


    It's good that they have the most advanced military in the region, seeing as it might as well be OUR military


    Indeed! Israel is an extension of US power; They are a crucial element in the region. US power should be unmatched and Israel helps ensure that.


    Of course a christian country in the middle of an arab world is a strategic position, for America that is, that way they can "Convert the heathens" or "Protect from the evil that is islam" (I have heard both statements on American radio).


    Of course that is the reason. Because Americans have nothing better to do than start wars with Muslims. Has it ever crossed your mind that Israel is a strategic asset of the US BECAUSE of our common values and goals, not common religion?
    "Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
     
    DLKAPA
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:46 am

    RJ I think me and you are now trying to talk around each other, as you've just backed up everything I've said.

    Well if you feel that Israel isn't culturally advanced, then by your logic, America isn't either.

    I thought i made it quite clear that I think America isn't one of the most culturally advanced nations, because there is still so much hate here. Like father like son, right?

    Indeed! Israel is an extension of US power; They are a crucial element in the region. US power should be unmatched and Israel helps ensure that.

    So it isn't israels defense, it might as well be Americas even though our best defense at this time would be to leave the region completely.

    Of course that is the reason. Because Americans have nothing better to do than start wars with Muslims. Has it ever crossed your mind that Israel is a strategic asset of the US BECAUSE of our common values and goals, not common religion?

    You have no idea how much GOALS and RELIGION are intertwined, do you?
    And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
     
    Udo
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:51 am

    You might think that "Israel is a shithole", but it's the most advanced society in the Middle East--Technologically, culturally, militarily, and strategically.

    Culturally? So you suggest one culture is "more advanced" than another? Wow, that sounds like pure racism to me...


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    Udo
    Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
     
    rjpieces
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:29 am

    I guess Germans went from one extreme to another. There is a difference between calling one culture more advanced than the other and advocating bringing a less advanced culture into death camps. You don't see Israelis/Americans/Westerners blowing themselves up. You do see Arabs doing that though. So I think it is reasonable to say that American/Israeli soceity/culture is more advanced than Arab society/culture.

    Arab culture fosters Jewhating, anti-semitism, anti-Americanism, and of course anti-Western sentiments. Is it not reasonalbe to say that the West is more advanced than them?

    I thought i made it quite clear that I think America isn't one of the most culturally advanced nations, because there is still so much hate here.

    Please tell me, what is your idea of the perfect nation. I'd love to live there.
    "Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
     
    Udo
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:51 am

    I guess Germans went from one extreme to another. There is a difference between calling one culture more advanced than the other and advocating bringing a less advanced culture into death camps.

    Interesting. I said your statement sounds like racism and you bring up death camps and the German past (which I personally do not have a single piece of relation to). What you say is quite an insult - I have never ever and I would never ever question the difference you mention above. Why on hell do you bring that up?


    You don't see Israelis/Americans/Westerners blowing themselves up. You do see Arabs doing that though.

    And because some Arabs blow themselves up - which is terrible - ALL Arabs belong to an "non-advanced" culture?


    So I think it is reasonable to say that American/Israeli soceity/culture is more advanced than Arab society/culture.

    That's nothing else but BS. Never generalize over millions of people. Arabs in the UAE, in Qatar, in Oman (just to name a few) live very peacefully - and all of them are "less advanced" according to your theory? I know some people from there personally and they are some of the most tolerant and open minded people I have ever met. According to you, these fine people should be "less advanced"? I start to feel very sorry for you...your attitude of deep hate seems to be a psychological thing. Call your doctor.


    Arab culture fosters Jewhating, anti-semitism, anti-Americanism, and of course anti-Western sentiments. Is it not reasonable to say that the West is more advanced than them?

    The whole West? All the time? Oh my god, you must be blind or totally ignorant...shall I start to tell you what the "advanced West" has done over the centuries? Or only in the last century?
    It's only reasonable to suggest the very people actually supporting anti-Western or anti-whatever actions to be "less advanced".


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    Udo
    Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
     
    qr332
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:36 am

    RJ, you never stop showing your true colours.

    Arab culture fosters Jewhating, anti-semitism, anti-Americanism, and of course anti-Western sentiments. Is it not reasonalbe to say that the West is more advanced than them?

    Your full of shit. Really, you are. You, being an Arab, would know that, right RJ? Arab culture does not foster it, people who are part of the Arab culture practice hatred towards America and Israel, those who have caused them harm. Why is it they dont hate Europe? What is your theory behind that?

    Well if you feel that Israel isn't culturally advanced, then by your logic, America isn't either. So if you feel that way, fine, but at least apply the standard to both countries. I, for one, think that America is the most advanced culturally in the world. And in the Middle East, using the standard I hold the United States to, Israel is the most advanced culturally.

    That is because every person has his own culture, there is nothing called one culture is more advanced than another. A culture is something unique, whether it is in America, Palestine, Israel or wherever. You cannot say ones culture is more advanced than another - that is known as racism. They used to think the same in South Africa, RJ, glad to know you think the same way.

    Do you consider any culture that is East of Russia and Turkey less advanced than yours?

    Indeed! Israel is an extension of US power; They are a crucial element in the region. US power should be unmatched and Israel helps ensure that.

    Why should it be unmatched? What gives America the divine right to be able to be unmatched?

    Local media reports suggested assassination of a political figure may have been the objective.

    Hmmm, Israel has never assassinated a political figure, right RJ? They're swatting them like flies in the West Bank and Gaza, why should it be surprising they hit them in Lebanon (if they are behind the attack).


    Miamix707,
    If you are referring to what he said of "Lebanon being the Paris of the Middle east", that was in 1 or 2 Lebanese guys' profiles here on a.net, he probably remebered that and wrote it.

    Actually, its the nickname for Beirut in the Middle East, as it has been for over 50 years.

    Aww, DLKAPA, it's nice to see friends sticking up for friends. Now seeing that you put no thought into what BA told you to write, maybe you should rethink that one. Beiruit was the Paris of the Middle East 40 years ago, before the Muslims started a civil war.

    You are so goddamn racist, it scares me. RJ, do you even know the history behind the Lebanese civil war? Dont run your mouth about what you dont understand or know about, you little prick.

    OYRJA,
    Well It might not be Paris of the Middle East anymore. But Lebanon has really turned it self to a tourist magnet. And personally I think that is really great for Lebanon. Especially after what they have been going thru.

    Dont worry, the city has not lost its title. Downtown Beirut is still one of the most beautiful places in the Middle East, and Beirut is one of my favourite cities in the world. So much to do, and so beautiful. Too bad our resident Extremist hasnt visited it, it would teach him a thing or two about what to say when talking about Lebanon, because at least hed learn something.


    RJ,
    It is a slap in the face to the Iraqis, Afghanistanis, and Palestinians working towards building a democracy today.

    Why is it a slap in the face? Iraqis are walking towards democracy one car bomb at a time, eh RJ? It is not a slap in anyones face, because Lebanon is a democracy whether you like it or not.

    Oh, and free elections in a country that is a fear society is a hypocritical statement. It is impossible to have free elections in a country that is fundamentally not free--I'm willing to bet that you were one of those who thought the USSR had free elections too, right?

    Fear society? Fundamentally not free? My God, I really am scared of the American education system now.

    There is a fundamental difference between two free democracies (the US and Israel) responding to terrorists attacks, and terrorists whose sole intenet is to murder civilians. If you fail to see this difference, then I don't know what to tell you.

    No, the fundamental difference is simple:

    Israel wants to do something, they have an excellent excuse: they are terrorists, we are responding. They killed us in the settlements we built on their land, throw in a bit about them being anti-Semetic, and there you have it, the world will swallow it and shut up, and allow Israel to do one thing.

    The Palestinians on the other hand, when bombing a settlement (which is not wrong whether you like it or not: it is illegal, and on land that does not belong to them) or when responding to an attack on civilans, are automatically labelled freedom hating crazy Muslim Palestinian terrorists who want nothing but to destroy Israel and they should be killed. So what if Israel is occupying them? Its necissary of their secuirty, right?  Yeah sure
    "The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
     
    rjpieces
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:51 am

    QR, did you read the link that I posted above about Lebanon?
    "Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
     
    DLKAPA
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:55 am

    Please tell me, what is your idea of the perfect nation. I'd love to live there.

    Your sarcasm is disheartening to say the least. What do you want to do, just stand around and watch hate fly? Oh wait, you're on the side that deals out the hate, you don't have to deal WITH it.

    Arab culture fosters Jewhating, anti-semitism, anti-Americanism, and of course anti-Western sentiments. Is it not reasonalbe to say that the West is more advanced than them?

    American culture fosters Arab-hating, Anti-Islam, Anti-Theocracism, and of course anti-Middle Eastern sentiments. Is it not reasonable to say that the Middle east is more advanced than America? No. You see a difference? Really? Because I don't.
    And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
     
    tbar220
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:11 am

    Udo,

    You might think that "Israel is a shithole", but it's the most advanced society in the Middle East--Technologically, culturally, militarily, and strategically.

    Why is this racist? I'm not going to take sides on this comment, but I think you have no right to call this comment racist. The opinion is that "Israeli culture is the most advanced in the Middle East". Why is that racist? He didn't say "Jewish culture is more advanced than Muslim culture" or even something along the lines of "All Muslim culture is stuck in the middle ages" (these I think are examples of sweeping generalizations based on racist thought). But the above comment I fail to see racism, and I think its unfair for you to call him out on it.
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    Udo
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:19 am

    Why is this racist? I'm not going to take sides on this comment, but I think you have no right to call this comment racist.

    I do indeed think I have the right.


    The opinion is that "Israeli culture is the most advanced in the Middle East". Why is that racist? He didn't say "Jewish culture is more advanced than Muslim culture"

    It's exactly what he meant - Israel to be more culturally advanced than the countries around. How can a nation be "more advanced" than others in terms of culture? What makes Israel's culture more advanced than Jordan's culture? You know RJ as much as I do from his postings and what he said was aimed at the Arabs in general.


    Regards
    Udo
    Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
     
    airxliban
    Posts: 4285
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:07 am

    well, all i'm going to say (at least for now) is to refer you to my signature.
    PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
     
    tbar220
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    RE: Lebanese Army Discovers Israeli Made Bombs

    Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:02 pm

    Udo,

    Indeed you are correct that you have the right to say what you want.

    Say I had said the comment, would you take it differently?

    Also, one could say that Israeli culture is more advanced than its neighbor's culture in that there is a higher value for human life. You do not see Israeli suicide bombers, while Arab suicide bombers are martyred and celebrated (of course by a minority but it still happens).

    I just don't see it as racist. I would prefer the person making the comment go and visit both cultures and see for oneself. If one culture is sacrificing goats and drinking its blood to appease the Gods of fire and water, while the other culture is celebrating the achievements of art with a dance performance, would one be more advanced than the other?

    Ultimately, I think its not even a really relevant comment to the discussion at hand. We can start a new thread on this. But continue here if you want.
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