MD-90
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Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:44 pm

I think this would be a good example of stepping over the line. I'm not a huge fan of Condi anymore, although I do respect her and her achievements, but this is taking it way too far. Anyone else see this in their paper last Saturday?


http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2005/01/15/


Sometimes I wonder about society's declining sense of decency...


[Edited 2005-01-23 09:44:53]
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:57 pm

I've read that comic and I have to say that it was a bit odd...not the usual material from McGruder. I can't say that it offended me, I just don't get what it was trying to say.

As for Affirmative Action, that's a difficult issue because it's truly irreconcilable. I used to be firmly against it (despite the fact that I'm pretty liberal), then for it, now I straddle the fence.
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flybyguy
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:25 pm

The boondock author seems to be a very bitter person. I don't care much for his relentless sarcasm.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:29 pm

Flybyguy, It does get a bit nauseating.
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:12 pm

His comics are lame,IMO.

As far as affirmative action goes? I am 90% against it. I don't agree with it, you hold back to many good people to get a person of color or a women in a position where it could have been filled with a person who earned it.

Then again, and now the 10% is concerned. You get new views and fresh blood in the position.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:27 pm

I believe that not only should affirmative action take into account color/ethnicity, but also socioeconomic status, political views, gender, ability/disability, geographic region, (gasp!) sexual orientation, religion, national origin, etc, and on a limited scale.
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
air2gxs
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:06 pm

Affirmative action is racial and gender discrimination. No matter how you try to paint it by saying you are trying to correct past discrimination and in-justices, affirmative action is discrimination.
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:19 pm

Air2gxs, it is discrimination, but is all discrimination inherently a bad thing?
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
air2gxs
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:47 pm

All discrimination a bad thing? No, I would certainly discriminate against a convicted child molester baby-sitting my little girl.

But we're not talking about that kind of discrimination, are we? We are saying that someone who is more qualified for a position passed over in favor of someone who, though qualified, is not as qualified. All because of some protected status. That is wrong. It is also unfair, to both groups.

With affirmative action we are telling protected groups that they don't have to be as good as the other group, only good enough to be considered and the quotas will take care of the rest. I'm sorry, but that would offends the hell out me.

Affirmative action was probably necessary in the civil rights era to balance the playing field. But, here we are 50 or so years later and we are still telling groups that they are not good enough to compete at the higher levels, so we'll give you a leg up. President Bush said that "...our country must abandon all the habits of racism, because we cannot carry the message of freedom and the baggage of bigotry at the same time." Affirmative action is a habit of racism (and sexism). There is no systematic racism in the US anymore. We have had several laws on our books since the 50's that abolished those practices (and created affirmative action). But, I believe racism does exist as a habit in many parts of this country and affirmative action just fuels those habits and makes it difficult to shed the habit.

A person discriminated against because of affirmative action would surely harbor some dis-like or even hate for the protected group. That is one of the ways of making a racist; tell someone he did not get a position because, even though he was good enough for the job, he was not a member of a protected group and the person that got the job was a member and less qualified. How is that person supposed to feel? The seeds of racism are planted.
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:52 pm

btw...Quotas were struck down by Gratz v. Bollinger

And I don't agree with a less qualified person being favored over a more qualified person, but I do think that factors of diversity (not just racial) and overcoming true disadvantage (not just racial, actually mostly not racial) should be taken into account when weighing candidates within a reasonable margin of similar qualifications. Like I said, I'm strattling the fence. As for the question I posed, I'm not sure of the answer to it myself.
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aerorobnz
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm

It is a biological thing to differentiate differences in our environment - we are programmed to find them as a survival skill, and so discrimination of differences is an inherently human trait. However, As I live in a racially divided country I feel that it is not a good idea to have 'Affirmative Action' as it does provoke hostility/resentment and a real 'Them and us' mentality which is not good in a supposedly democratic country. We are all in the same boat, so we must all have the same rules.

As far as taking something too far, We take ourselves far too seriously. You have to be able to laugh at yourself as well as at others. Most cases of 'Going too far' occur when one or other party cannot see themselves or others in a humourous light. I noted several comments about tasteless & insensitive jokes in GKirks post with religious jokes. If you worry about that kind of thing you build up unnecessary stress in your life and it can manifest itself in other parts of your life.

Just my thoughts,
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
SLC1
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:04 pm

Aerorob,

That "us and them" mentality is precisely one of the reasons why "Affirmative Action" must be abolished to be replaced by something that considers a broad spectrum of factors.
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mdsh00
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RE: Going Too Far--Where Do You Draw The Line?

Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:30 am

I believe that not only should affirmative action take into account color/ethnicity, but also socioeconomic status, political views, gender, ability/disability, geographic region, (gasp!) sexual orientation, religion, national origin, etc, and on a limited scale.

I believe that race/ethnicity should not be a factor at all. If anything, only socioeconomic class should be the factor. That way, the poor white, black, asian, and hispanic applicant can be considered on their income.

Why should a hispanic or black applicant from a wealthy family (and we know there are those) benefit, while a poor white or asian student (and there are those too) suffer because of what happened in the past?

So put me down as being vehemently against Affirmative Action.
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