rjpieces
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Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/01-25-2005/news/wn_report/story/274543p-235086c.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.auschwitz24jan24,1,7158662.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Holocaust boycott--Arabs snub UN before Auschwitz anniversary

Sixty years after Soviet soldiers smashed open the gates of Auschwitz, the UN General Assembly commemorated the Holocaust with a historic special session yesterday at which a cantor sang the Israeli national anthem.

But the Arabs weren't there to hear the music.

With the exception of the Jordanians, the seats of the Arab delegates were mostly empty as the United Nations acknowledged the extermination of 6 million Jews during World War II.





[Edited 2005-01-25 15:21:54]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jaysit
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:12 pm

Did you really expect them to show up?

Be serious.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
damirc
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:52 am

Of course, the Slavs, the Gypsies and a few other races and nationalities were on the Nazi top list of all time favorite races.

Hypocritical memorial.

D.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:58 am

Of course, the Slavs, the Gypsies and a few other races and nationalities were on the Nazi top list of all time favorite races.

Hypocritical memorial.


Nothing hypocritical about a memorial that remembers the deaths of 6 MILLION Jews. The other races and peoples you mentioned were brutalized, but none to the extent, and none with the specificity that the Nazi's targeted the Jews between 1933 and 1945.

It's totally appropriate, and a small mind apparently can't comprehend the magnitude of that crime against humanity.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ly7e7
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:03 am

Falcon, I'm afraid nothing can be done regarding reply #2. Just suggest deletion, as I did.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Falcon84
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:04 am

Actually, LY7E7, I think it's a good thing to talk about such things openly. I hope it stays, as a point of legitimate contention.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ly7e7
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:06 am

Falcon,
Do you think that calling a Holocaust memorial hypocritical is a legitimate opinion?
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:09 am

LY/Falcon- it just goes to show you how ignorant people can really be.
Go big or go home
 
Falcon84
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:12 am

It's his opinion, so it's worth discussing. The worst thing you can do most times is to try to silence exteme opinions. The best thing, in my mind, is to let it sit out there, so that others can see the idiocy of such opinion, and the truth will stand up against it a lot better that it would if you just zap such opinions into nothingness.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rjpieces
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:12 am

I've seen many A.net threads go off the wall, but I did not expect Reply 2 to be somebody calling a Holocaust memorial a "Hypocritical memorial"...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
iakobos
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:18 am

I don't want to break your fieldday, shame to those whom did not attend, but what about this nice piece of curved journalism ?
except for Jordan, the seats of the Arab delegates were mostly empty

They were empty or they were not ? if they were not, I have to conclude that there were Arab delegates in addition to the Jordanian delegation, and most likely more than one or two, which the "reporter" would definitely not have missed to mention.

My conclusion would be:
*pittyful gesture not to attend in full
*good to see that there were Arab delegates
*if the idea was to send a message, it is a long time that everyone knows the contents
*acknowledgment of message mentions: the day you will learn to turn a page and to value life, everyone's life, that day will mark the beginning of your future.
 
keno
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:21 am

It's no secret that Arab states have always boycotted the Israeli government (for obvious reasons). Arabs are educated enough to know that holocaust did actually happen, you must be living in a LaLaLand to think otherwise. This holocaust commemoration ceremony was held partly under the banner of State of Israel (e.g. the national anthem & flag). And you are surprised if the Arabs did not turn up?

[Edited 2005-01-25 18:24:11]
 
jaysit
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:28 am

I have to disagree with the contention that the Nazis did not target gypsies with any less ferocity than they did Jews. Gypsies - like the Jews - were part of the Nazis final solution. And while nearly 2/3 of all European Jews were murdered, the official figures for Gypsy murders under the Nazis is also very high: approximately 1/3 of the gypsy population. It may be much higher, because most of the gypsies were just killed off in the forests where they were apprehended and, thus, were never part of the official record.

That having been said, the memorial to Auschwitz at the UN was not specific to Jewish suffering, but to all victims of the Nazis.

I suspect that the playing of the Israeli national anthem may have had something to do with the no-shows. Or for those Arab anti-semites provided for a convenient excuse not to show up.

Rather unfortunate.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
tbar220
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:28 am

Keno,

Well no, I guess I'm not surprised. It was after all Arabs who supported Hitler and his quest to exterminate the Jews during WWII. Have you ever heard of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? Look him up, and you'll see what I mean.
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Twistedwhisper
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:43 am

LY7E7,

I don't think the memorial is hypocritical as such. What I find hypocritical (not sure that's the right word to use here though) is this: "In memory of 6.000.000 Jews. Who cares about the rest."

A memorial? Yeah, sure, if it can help preventing anything like this ever happen again. Not only to Jews, but to any group of people. And I for one think that the Arabs should have been there too, it might have been some political issue that kept them out...?

Holocausts (genocides, bloodbaths, massmurders) occur even today, 50-55 years after WWII, what are we doing to stop it? Not enough in my opinion...
Read between the lines.
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:43 am

Rjpieces:

" the seats of the Arab delegates were mostly empty"

so mostly empty means Arab Boycott, right?

Give me a break, Rjpieces!

It is funny that while you intent to show (once again) 'just how terrible these Arabs are', you have chosen this particular subject to do so. Perhaps you should go and find out what exactly led to the Holocaust and how the people in Germany talked about the Jews before the Holocaust, to notice that there really isn't much difference between your continuous Arab-bashing and the bashing of Jews during Hitler's rise to power.

You're pathetic!
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
keno
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:45 am

Tbar220,

That is one serious allegation and I would not fall for any conspiracy theory which might now be passed as "facts". I must admit it does sound very sensational to further demonize the Arabs  Insane. Let's say in a parallel universe that you are right, one man's action did not represent the view of the whole of the Arab world.

Jaysit,

Or for those Arab anti-semites provided for a convenient excuse not to show up.

I respect your opinion if you consider this as anti-semitic. But the way I see it this is another anti-State of Israel, which is nothing new and entirely not without reasons too. It's too convenient to label anyone who has problem with Israeli policies as anti-semitic.
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:51 am

From the International Herald Tribune:


"Djibril Diallo, a General Assembly spokesman, said 150 of the 191 nations agreed to the session, including some in the Arab and Muslim world, although the list of who they were was kept confidential. While there was a scattering of delegates in the seats of some Muslim nations, only Afghanistan, Jordan and Turkey sent speakers to the rostrum."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/25/news/un.html
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
tbar220
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:52 am

Oh I understand that is a very serious allegation. So I'll provide some sources for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

http://www.jerusalem-archives.org/period3/3-25.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/mufti.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/846987/posts

Thankfully, after WWII, the major Arab powers refused to fully cooperate with this nutcase.
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Christa
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:59 am

I believe that it is absolutely disgraceful that leaders of the Arab nations did not turn up, I am unsure if other Muslims leaders attended, but if they did not I also believe that is wrong.

I know that from the UK, we did not send the Prime Minister (I am unaware why this occurred) but I do believe that the UK sent a high ranking minister of some sort.

Look at what happened when Yasser Arafat died, many of the European leaders were forced to turn up, why should they? As many of their countries have large Jewish populations. I am sure that there would be a great amount of anger if none of the European leaders decided not to turn up at his funeral.

I am sure that there are bad and good in different religions, but it does seem that there are a lot more EXTREMIST Muslims compared to other extremists in other religions, i.e Christianity.

Regards,

Chris
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keno
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:04 am

Tbar220,

I wrote earlier "conspiracy theory which might now be passed as "facts"

Very serious allegations require concrete undisputable proofs. Certainly nothing that can be found from a simple Google search could justify any of that. Thanks for the trouble, though  Big grin.

Christa,

One does not have to be an "extremist" of any kind to not agree with State of Israel. Their blood-stained history since the 1940s are well documented for you to make your own mind. Being an anti-semite blindly however, is a totally different thing. That can only come from pure stupidity or ignorance.

[Edited 2005-01-25 19:16:49]
 
tbar220
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:18 am

Are you serious? I found five varied sources on the Grand Mufti, and you are just denying them? Did you even bother to open them, to read them? They all say the same thing, that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the Arabs who supported him supported the Nazi regime and their quest to kill Jews.

I'm not making "serious allegations", I'm showing you historical fact. What do you want me to do, fly over to Malaysia and show you a book that tells you this?

Historical fact shows and says that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem openly supported Hitler, the Nazi Regime, and their quest to eliminate Jews. This you cannot deny.
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Christa
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:19 am

Don't you think this is wrong?

After all, the State of Israel didn't exist when the Holocaust occurred. Shouldn't the Muslim & Arab nations give respect to those who died under an evil man.

Personally I believe that the State of Israel should be respected. After all if a neighboring state started attacking you with suicide bombers and so on, wouldn't you retaliate?

I know that there is more to it than that but that is not the point here. The point here is that the Arab & Muslim leaders should respect those who died. After all many of the countries affected in the recent Tsunami i.e Indonesia are mainly Muslim religion wise. However, countries that have had troubles with Islam, i.e UK, USA, France and so on, still sent aid to help the people.

No matter what way you look at it, what I am saying is true!

Regards,

Chris
Croeso i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd - Welcome to Cardiff International Airport
 
ly7e7
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:30 am

I have to say that the PLO observer to the UN did attend, so it was not only Jordan.

TWISTEDWHISPER,

I absolutely agree with the fact that all victims of the Nazi regime should be commemorated. However I do not see any contradiction between that and a memorial to the Jewish victims. I can also accept criticism on some of the memorials dedicated to Jews, as , for example, the new memorial in Berlin. Yet there's a very long way from legitimate critics to describing such memorial as a hypocritical (i.e "Who cares about the rest").

Keno,
Grand Mufti's support of the nazis is not a conspiracy, it is a historical fact, quite a lot of academic research work was done on that issue. That does not say that the entire Arab nation supported nazism.


http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/start/index.php
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
jaysit
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:55 am

I respect your opinion if you consider this as anti-semitic. But the way I see it this is another anti-State of Israel, which is nothing new and entirely not without reasons too. It's too convenient to label anyone who has problem with Israeli policies as anti-semitic.

Notice I said that for "those" Arab anti-semites. And those do exist.

And I also added that the playing of the Israeli national anthem probably had a lot to do with the absence of those who are at odds with the policies of Israel.

I do believe, though, that had Arab heads of State attended this function, they would have shamed Israeli right wingers. Memorializing 6+ million victims of the holocaust is just a sign of respect that would have had enormous ramifications in the Middle East.
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n229nw
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:50 am

Wow. this is a very delicate subject of course. A few thoughts:

1.) Having a memorial for Jews who died in the Holocaust is not "hypocritical." And it is very important.

2.) That said, Jaysit is absolutely right in reply 12 that the Gypsies were targeted as directly as the Jews, for example. They were the two ethnic groups specifically selected to be eliminated completely rather than put into slave labor etc. Zyklon B gas was first "tested" on Gypsy children. And you only had to be 1/8 Gypsy as opposed to 1/4 Jewish to qualify for gassing on ethnic grounds. The PROPORTIONAL numbers of dead for the two groups are very similar, though exact esitmates vary.

None of this belittles what happened to the Jews who died in the Holocaust, but I have personally witnessed certain other groups at times having to struggle to be invited to participate in Holocaust memorial ceremonies, committees, etc. When the events are framed as general Holocaust memorials, it is hypocritcal to exclude the various groups who also suffered, and, at least in the case of the Roma/Gypsies, whose communities were completely devestated in exactly the same way.

To me, that is a perversion of the history too. The reason to commemorate the Holocaust should be to learn about the dangers of dehumanizing other races and cultures, and to look at how those dangers can still flare up. Even look at the different approaches between famous survivors such as Eli Wiesel and Simon Wiesenthal, and you can see how the latter tries to draw important lessons about tolerance from history, while the former is more concerned with proving that the Jews have greater claim to victimhood than others. I think many people could learn from the Wiesenthal approach.

If this memorial is linked to a celebration of Israel, the absence of many Arab delegates may be petty, but it does not constitute Holocaust denial or anything of the like. It has to do with post-WWII politics and events, not with the Holocaust (or with Jews) as such.
Tbar,

as for the Mufti of Jerusalem, he most certainly did exist. To use this to claim that Arabs were particularly or blindly anti-Semitic is akin to saying that the admiration of the Nazis, or anti-Semitic beliefs of, figures such as Henry Ford, Oswald Mosley, or George Bush's grandfather, etc. etc. show that Americans and Brits are particularly anti-Semitic (And with the Mufti--though this does not condone but does help explain--there were other factors involved too, besides "blind hatred." Zionism was already an issue with land claims in the British Mandate...)

[Edited 2005-01-25 21:11:21]
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MaverickM11
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:18 am

"But the Arabs weren't there to hear the music."

Wow. I'm so shocked.  Yeah sure
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:19 am

I remember having learned in history clas back in secondary school, thart the Germans tried to get the Arabs in the British Mandate Territories (Iraq, Jordan, Egypt and Palaestine) to rebel against the British. They even sent a general there by Ju-52 to land in the Iraqi desert and. with his staff, aid in the uprising (I forgot the name and when and where it exactly happened). I remember having heard that the Arabs fired into the air, when the plane approached and the general got killed by a stray bullet. The Germans abadoned the project afterwards. Sorry, I don´t remember the details anymore, it is more than 20 years ago, but if somebody has heard about it and has more information, please mail me.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
777236ER
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:29 am

I am sure that there are bad and good in different religions, but it does seem that there are a lot more EXTREMIST Muslims compared to other extremists in other religions, i.e Christianity.

Perhaps, but then again most Christians live in nice cushy Western countries.

Nevertheless, disgusting behavior by a bunch of people who have simple hate.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:33 am

"Perhaps, but then again most Christians live in nice cushy Western countries."

You s'pose there's a connection there?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777236ER
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:35 am

You s'pose there's a connection there?

Yes, but not the way you're implying. I don't think Western countries are cushy because of Christian heritage. Indeed, you could even argue that much of the world is the way it is because of Western colonialism.

That being said, nothing excuses actions like this.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
lehpron
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:48 am

Being the 31st poster, has anyone recognized the scapegoatism on behalf of those 'arabs' that feel this way? Meaning, I doubt all arabs felt that way; but hey, argue on!  Big grin  Yeah sure
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
CedarWings
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:02 am

I Myself denounce all massacres of any type against any nation or race ,but I don't see why a certain massacre should be used for political gain and blackmail.

RJ,

The answer to your provocative and very clever post is very simple.

Why the Arabs were absent and didn't listen to your music?

.....For the same reason that the Israelis/Jews never show up in September of each year during the memorial of 4000 massacred in Sabra and Shatila.


[Edited 2005-01-25 23:36:24]
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:05 am

"Yes, but not the way you're implying."

Hmm. Interesting since I wasn't implying anything.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777236ER
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:08 am

Hmm. Interesting since I wasn't implying anything.

So why did you write it?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:13 am

To pose the question.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777236ER
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:16 am

In that case, ignore the first setence.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:30 am

And you are surprised if the Arabs did not turn up?

Absolutely not a single bit. Just as I am not surprised by the usual apologists here on a.net trying to find lame excuses and pathetic reasons for such shameful behavior.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:34 am

it's kinda sad that from reasing several posts on here...many people dont know about Arabs and who they are, nor their background....

which makes it even more upsetting that people come to conclusions...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:50 am

"which makes it even more upsetting that people come to conclusions..."

Speaking for myself, I make no judgements on Arab or Muslim people, but I do judge their governments, which are almost all without a doubt, complete sh!t. Since Arab/Muslim people have little to no power in selecting their governments, I can't blame them for the errors of their leaders, and I don't.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Springbok747
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:55 am

But the Arabs weren't there to hear the music.

No surprise there. Reply #2 is just crazy, I don't know what the dude was thinking when he wrote that.

For one second..don't think of those 6 million as Jews..they were fellow human beings. 6 MILLION is a HUGE number! I think this Holocaust Memorial is just as important as any war memorial out there - it reminds us of the horrible things we humans have done to each other (and still continue to do)..and also to make sure something like that never happens again.

אני תומך בישראל
 
CedarWings
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:04 am

Rj,

Reviewing your "thread starter" history for the last months,

Palestinian Elections This Week
Lawsuit Filed Against Arab Bank That Funds Terror
Ann Coulter On Muslims
On Syria
Islamic Charities Held Responsible For Hamas
Interesting Article About The Arab World
Iranian Group Signs Up Suicide Volunteers
Thomas Friedman On Arafat's (looming) Death
Arabs On The Verge Of Democracy
Survivor Of Palestinian Tyranny Defends Israel
Arafat: I'll Become The Palestinian Nelson Mandela
Albany Mosque Busted For Terrorism Connections
Iraq Oklahoma City Bombing Connection?
…………………………………………..etc


.....makes me wonder about your intentions and let's say "desires".
One thing I am sure about, and that is you are totally diagnosed.

Nevertheless, I was extremely happy when I found that there are in fact another topic (1 unique ) in which you might look interested in, other than Arabs and muslims:

Gay Rights In America

Happy for you ….


[Edited 2005-01-26 00:27:54]
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
ly7e7
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:11 am

Cedarwings,

I don't see any connection between your last post and the victims of the Nazi regime be it Jews, Gypsies or Slavs.
Suggest deletion. Next time you feel that you have to say something personal to RJ use his profile.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
damirc
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:50 pm

Okay. Talk about skewing of what I meant to say.

I don't find the holocaust memorial a hypocritical event, I do however find it very hypocritical that only one group of people are being remembered. Approximately 15-20% of my country's population was eradicated in WW2. I didn't hear any of them remembered, I didn't hear any of the gay people, the disabled people or the Gypsies remembered. All I heard unfortunately was an epic event in support of Israel.

That is, what I call hypocritical.

D.
 
tbar220
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:11 pm

I hate to be the one the bursts your bubbles, but RJ didn't imply or say anything in his post. He simply quoted the article, those words aren't his.
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ly7e7
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:39 pm

Approximately 15-20% of my country's population was eradicated in WW2

Well, maybe your country does not work hard enough to commemorate those victims.
Oh, and I don't recall any Slovenian genocide. But , who can blame you....

http://www.inv.si/mpa_hannah.htm
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
damirc
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:21 pm

I happen to be from Murska Sobota. Trust me, the memory is not eradicated, but I have to agree that there are not many Jews left in this region.

There is a Jewish cemetery in one part of my town and if you wish I can send you a photo of it (will take my time and do it just for you) - and you can see for yourself that it's neither desecrated nor let down, it's maintained by the community.

There was a synagogue in Murska Sobota, but it was destroyed in the 1940s, and I do have to agree that there is far too little information about who did it, but pointers seem to direct that not only the occupying forces helped destroy it. Talkng with older people did also reveal that the Jews were not really met with enthusiasm. The main reason of the despise (let's call it by it's name) was money - the Jews had it, the other populace did not. The Jewish population in my region ran manufactures, mills and above all - groceries (where they had main contact with the other population); the Jewish population was in the saddle and they knew it and used their position - which unfortunately reaped hate and despise. It is not a simple case of "they hate us because we're different". I don't know how much you're aware of the Reformation movement in Europe, but let's say that in Austro-Hungary the Lutherans were not really tolerated, and while they were expunged from most of Slovenia, they've settled in this area - and even today the Roman Catholic and Lutheran people live side by side without problems.

Regarding there are no Jews left in this country. My hairdresser's last name as a kid was Hirschl, the neighbours at my grandmother's are Kohn (Cohen; albeit they changed their last name somewhere after 1940). Even my own last name is Jewish (and if you want to figure it out; go to 1 Harav-Friedman Street in Tel Aviv, and there is an art house there).

The problem I see with the Jewish culture is the fact, that it puts itself in the center, it's suffering is always the highest, the world needs to repent it's sins towards Judaism. I agree, that the Jews had gone through a lot of suffering in the last century - and that the holocaust must never repeat itself again. But this was 50+ years ago, the generations of people who perpetrated that are either dead or in the progress of dying. If we want to have peace in this world, we must all make a step ahead. Accept the history as it is, be ready for compromises. Throwing bricks around while we're all sitting in a glass house is imho a very bad strategy.

Oh and more thing - directed specifically to RJPieces - if you start blaming everyone around for the misery of the Jewish people, don't expect them to love you for it. Can't you understand that when you start posting threads in the line of "The Jewish have given the world so much, the Arabs never gave the world anything" that you will not be gaining sympathies, but probably something different).

And to sum it up. Exactly this behaviour (holier than thou, better than you, I am the center of the world) is one great part of the answer regarding what has happened to the Jewish population in my home region in the 1940s.

D.
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
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RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:40 pm

Indeed interesting info, Damirc, thanks. I live not too far away from Friedman st. so I will definitely come buy. Btw, just out of curiosity, how did you know about the place?


that the Jews had gone through a lot of suffering in the last century

It's not just about last century. The Holocaust was a natural culmination of centuries long hard-core European anti semitism. It will take another centuries for Jews to get used to the idea that they are no longer hated in such massive, stately manner. The Jewish national idea is hopefully reducing that time. The fact that Holocaust was caused by the Germans is quite a random fact. That could be almost any other European nation. Germany just had more means for destruction and a bad luck , if you may, to find itself in the role of the hanger.

If we want to have peace in this world, we must all make a step ahead. Accept the history as it is, be ready for compromises. Throwing bricks around while we're all sitting in a glass house is imho a very bad strategy.
Agreed. That is why I have many great friends in Europe and in Germany especially.

Exactly this behaviour (holier than thou, better than you, I am the center of the world) is one great part of the answer regarding what has happened to the Jewish population in my home region in the 1940s.

Nice. That my friend is called anti-semitism. But hey if you won't blame the Jews for the Holocaust whom will you blame? Your own nation? That wouldn't possible, would it?


Approximately 15-20% of my country's population was eradicated in WW2

How many of them were Jews ?

And one more,thing. Yes, Judaism, like any other religion thinks that is the only true religion and way of life. Not a reason to be hated.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:42 pm

And to sum it up. Exactly this behaviour (holier than thou, better than you, I am the center of the world) is one great part of the answer regarding what has happened to the Jewish population in my home region in the 1940s.

We have a word for that Damirc. Anti-Semitism. Blaming the Jews for the Holocaust; that's a classic.

Your entire post was just a fancy way of blaming the Jews....They've always been blamed, and always will be blamed, be it for the problems in Germany in the 30s or the problems in the Middle East today. In both cases, the Jews weren't the problem but I wouldn't expect somebody who just posted what you said to understand that.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: Arabs Boycott Holocaust Memorial

Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:09 pm

This thread has become a personal flamefest and will be locked.

Thanks for your understanding.

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...

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