tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:07 am

I think its really disturbing when people on the forum attack the user rather than go after his/her point or opinion. Its totally unfair to discredit a user's opinion because who posts it.

For example, if B757300 posts a pro-rebulican article, rather than attack him for posting it and saying something like, "Oh, its just 757, that article is stupid", address the article and the points it present.

Rather than attack RJPieces for posting an Israel article, why don't you address the article that is posted. It would be no different if RJPieces posted it or if anybody else did. The article is the same.

Rather than attack RSmith for posting an article about Bush, address the article.

etc. etc. etc. You get the idea.

Its so utterly frustrating when so many people automatically ignore or discredit a persons opinion simply because... well... they are who they are.
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Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:13 am

Tbar220:
Dude we must be on the same page. While you were typing this thread, I was responding to your post in another thread and Rjpices and B757300 came to mind.
I don't like that tactic either but some people are so predictable and so discussions with them are useless.
Bring back the Concorde
 
DeskPilot
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:15 am

TBar220, I have no disagreement with you suggestion. Sounds fine to me, providing there's variety in what people post.

I'm assuming this arose due to the response to RJPieces other post ?
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:16 am

Yea, I realized that too right when you posted what you did  Laugh out loud

Seriously though, often times users will post an article and that's it. Too many people automatically go after the user and post that stupid "obsession" picture rather than address the topic at hand. I mean hell, its so much easier to post an obsession picture than have an honest discussion about the topic. Even if you disagree with it, address it! And if you don't want to discuss it, don't attack the user.
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skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:17 am

Figures .... typical same stuff coming from Superfly and Tbar220 ... geez you guys are SO predictable!!

 Big grin ... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But I agree completely... civility goes a long way.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:17 am

I agree that it is unfortunate.

It should not surprise you very much either, though. Some people on here are so predictable in their views that many of us just don't even bother to read their threads. Some title their threads or use language in the opening post that is obviously calculated to get exactly that kind of response.

There is a small percentage here who are nothing but flame-baiters and might not even believe what they post.

The rest of us just work around them.

Two recent examples come to mind:

The "Thank you Hollywood" thead
The Bush-monkey photo thread.

Opposite sides, obvious flame-bait.


[Edited 2005-02-01 03:19:38]
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:22 am

Maybe you should pick a better example as I actually start a thread less than once a week.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:23 am

Slamclick,

I think it's all too easy to just call something flaimbait if you disagree with it, and address it as such. I'm talking about threads where people post legitimate arguments. Users will post opinions which others will disagree with, but rather will dismiss it as "flaimbait" and attack the user in return.

B757,

Its an example...

[Edited 2005-02-01 03:23:54]
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Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:26 am

SKYSERVICE_330:
Wanne guess what color socks I am wearing? Big grin




SlamClick:
I agree. There are some users that are also quick to judge based on one's ideology. Even though I consider myself a left-wing liberal, many were surprised that I speak out against gun control and the fools on the board of Supervisors that continue to embarrass my city of San Francisco. There are many users’ here on the left and right that think outside the box and are free thinkers and independent in there views.
But again Rjpieces and B757300 have to be the two most predictable.


Bring back the Concorde
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:28 am

I am frustrated by it as much as you are, although, like SlamClick, I am equally frustrated by users that use the forums to do nothing but promote fights and post controversial material. And there is nothing wrong with posting controversial material, as long as you do it in a way that promotes discussion and not name-calling. We don't attack Rsmith because he has differing views, but we shoot him down because of his compulsive nature of hijacking his own threads and ranting about Bush.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:32 am

Superfly,

That is another excellent post. People will label users as certain types and automatically assume that they believe in one view or another. This prejudgement of opinion and personality is really unfair, considering its an online forum and that we've never met eachother in person (well some of us).

Newark,

In cases where a user hijacks another thread, I can see why that happens.
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UAL747
Posts: 6725
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:15 pm

What people say on here is relative to their maturity. To personally attack a person because of their beliefs or experiences is denying yourself a possible educational experience to challenge, create dialogue, develop rhetoric, and exchange ideas. People take for granted what A.net provides us. When, in time, has anyone been so able to have a truly GLOBAL discussion about events and ideas? Not until the end of the 20th century and the start of this century has our world been so small.

Instead of fighting with others, calling others this and that, take time to realize exactly what we are accomplishing here. When you look at the a.net forums as a whole, it's quite amazing. I have learned so much information here. Exchanging ideas and taking part in debates on this site has enhanced my abilities as a leader, my speaking abilities, and has overall given me a more worldly view of such ideas.

We are truly fortunate. Take time to reflect on that...

UAL

[Edited 2005-02-01 04:16:35]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:27 pm

UAL747:
I have learned so much information here.


Oh yeah?
Well I bet you don't know when Northwest will officially retire there DC-9s.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Nuts
Bring back the Concorde
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:33 pm

I enjoy the debates that go on here, and I know I hold some very unpopular views, especially among homosexuals on this board.

One of the things I've learned is that these internet boards strip users of the ability to convey the emotional dimension behind the messages. This could be anything from sadness to anger, concern to boredom. Even though we use such words, they are subject to the interpretation of the reader. Emoticons don't even do justice.

You may have noticed that I've stayed away from most of the recent threads on homosexuality. My views are known after extensive debate in one thread, and I am sure that further "butting in" will only be seen as flaming. I guess you could call that maturity.

The fact is that not everyone is going to agree with everyone else's lifestyle, religion, political leaning, or choice of fast food. I think what makes this non_av board wonderful is that, for example, I can be here and homosexuals can be here and 99% of the time we *don't* butt heads (no pun intended.) I believe we have more in common than not; aviation is one commonality or we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Thanks for reminding us, Tbar220.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:34 pm

I value the opinion of all persons here . . . with one or two exceptions.

You site specifically our buddy RSmith. I've told him in the past - he has brought up interesting subject in his thread starter. He has sources and most folk, I believe, would discuss it with him if he didn't go right off the deep end every single damn time! He posts great articles and then immediately begins......... his anti BUSH!!!!!!!!! BS......... that is abolutely!!!!!!!! nauseating. It completely destroys his credibility.

It is an amazing thing to read the world wide opinions on this site. Much better than any news show no matter what network it might be.

I can cite specific example of folks on A-Net I rarely agree with when it comes to politics, but they are on my RU list because they are able to articulate their reponse and make, in their opinion, valid, lucid arguments. Others appear here and all they want to do is spew the same bored tiring, nonsensical rhetoric, no matter what.

That is the time to hit the "Suggest Delete" button and move on. . . . not to worry, the poster will be back later, with more of the same inane marlarkey.

I would TBar, almost 100% agree with your thoughts if it weren't for a few folk allowed to post here who's opinions, in all eyes, are simply absurd.

Lastly, it's the nature of the internet beast - it's not going to end.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:03 pm

For the most part, yeah...I agree with what's been said. It seems like a lot of people here don't know the line between lively debate and personal slander, and often cross it and don't realize it, or don't care.

It seems like a lot of posts (especially in non-av) end up spiraling downward into personal attacks or a competition between the usual people. It seems like OYRJA and his clogs and GKirk seem to eventually permeate every topic!  Nuts

I don't know...I've been on here 3 1/2 years now, I've had fun...but it's getting old. Just seems like the same topics keep coming up, and whatever new topic arises always seems to have the same posters. I'm planning on starting grad. school soon, and will be devoting most of my free time to that, so it won't be long before I decide to hang it up.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:15 pm

StevenUhl777:
I'm planning on starting grad. school soon, and will be devoting most of my free time to that, so it won't be long before I decide to hang it up.

But Steven we need you here! What about the children?  Crying

Just kidding.
I hear what you are saying.
Bring back the Concorde
 
StowAway
Posts: 619
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:52 pm

I agree, but it is funny to see you reply to this, Superfly. In past threads you have really reverted to some pretty harsh, and personal attacks.

Anyways, I don't mind when people go after a user instead of an argument, because it makes it easier for them to be weeded out of a discussion!  Big thumbs up
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
AWspicious
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:16 pm

Very noble sentiments, indeed. Thing is, at times some members just make themselves out to be such a laxative. Then, one has no choice but to let fly the fury in an effort to restore order and preserve serenity. Having said that, one should not allow harsh tones to upset the smooth flow of the discussions. For, it is possible to put forth very low-key yet strong and effective opinions.
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:26 pm

Stowaway,

I hope you're kidding. You would rather weed out somebody from a discussion that you disagree with than actually discuss the points at hand?
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StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:27 pm

Superfly: LOL!  Laugh out loud

I used to think the non-av forum was a good place to vent and also get to know other users, but the more I think about it, the mods. should just delete it altogether. We're here for aviation...that's why the site is here to begin with. If we keep it to that, I think the level of professionalism and decency might improve just a tad, plus the mods. should come down harder on people who divert a topic thread to speak about sheep and wooden shoes and the like. Want to talk about other stuff? Set up your own website forum, or talk about it elsewhere.

Just my .02. Not sure how much longer I'll be around here.  Insane
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
StowAway
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:37 pm

I hope you're kidding. You would rather weed out somebody from a discussion that you disagree with than actually discuss the points at hand?

I don't think you took that as I intended!  Smile I meant that when I see a user divert off of a topic just to go after somebody personally, I am done with them for that topic. They have shown that they have no point to prove for that discussion, and so they divert. I will admit that I have gotten heated in the past, and done so. Some users just deserve it,though. (RSmith, Indianguy, etc.) I mean, these people have clearly established a precedence of ignorance, and therefore get treated as such.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:38 pm

Stowaway:
Sorry if I've got under your skin in the past. I rarely make personal attacks on others. If I do, it's to certain members that's made disgusting post in the past that reveal an ugly side to them that's consistent with there post in other topics. MD-90 and MaverickM11 come to mind.



StevenUhl777:
Best of luck in grad school.  Big thumbs up
What do you want to be when you grow up?

Bring back the Concorde
 
StowAway
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:43 pm

Sorry if I've got under your skin in the past. I rarely make personal attacks on others. If I do, it's to certain members that's made disgusting post in the past that reveal an ugly side to them that's consistent with there post in other topics. MD-90 and MaverickM11 come to mind.

Hey, it sounds like we are fighting the same battle here man. That is to get rid of the spam! Nobody likes spam!  Smile BTW, I noticed that you mentioned somebody from the far left, and far right. Very fair!
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:54 pm

We're interacting with A.net users, not the authors of the articles.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:24 pm

StowAway:
Nobody likes spam!

Are you kidding?

Fry it up in a skillet and add some maple syrup or hot sauce and you got a good snack.  Smokin cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
gkirk
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:28 pm

How did I know Superfly would make a comment like that? He's so predictable  Big grin  Smokin cool
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:41 pm

I don't know if any of you guys were members of Skyone (posting threads) but it went kaput as soon as the 'undesirables' were weeded out. It got stale real fast... what little subjects that followed were the most mundane of aviation chat... "....which carrier has Michelin tires and how many?" kind of nonsense. I'm in no way endorsing the conflicts (in which I've been embroiled in a quite a few--always with the same crew or "new guys" here.. or the same old guys with "new identities".. the oldest trick on the net. I've had death wished upon me by a few for my views (never complained to a moderator) and a few wanting to go to the mat.. and always, I let the other guy go personal on me 1st before I retaliate it. Some of these guys go stalking thread-to-thread gunning for a specific person to attack--which is pretty sad. But hey, it's a chat medium.. nothing more. But bigger than this is this fact-- America in 2005 is equally if not more DIVIDED than it was in the 1960s during the Vietnam War/Civil Rights Era. Non-Av is one of many conduits to express what many cannot say at work, in class, to a spouse,gf, parent,family member whatever. When posters ask 'what do you wear to bed, eat for lunch, post your pic, etc. That's personal! Every 3rd or 4th post here is personal. For the most part the 'personal is friendly' but when it gets negative and descends into chaos -- and you can count on it, you don't have to read it. Who on earth has that much time to read all this??? Plus respond!?? The trading of barbs seems cyclical here, some see it as a slow-motion car wreck and many 'get off' on seeing who's scoring on who. It's a predictable character trait of us humans (males for the most part) to verbal spar off against one another... and I think the mods do a pretty decent job of keeping it in check (I've had a slew of my post deleted- even innoucous ones).

But at a tumultuous time as the one America is currently immersed... it's difficult (on touchy subjects) not to get emotional and passionate about some issues.. and yes, it can and will get personal. Controversial issues need to be discussed in places exactly like this when 'in person' it's not possible. After all it's just a discussion forum... nothing more.

One unprecented reflection is that of younger posters (13-17) 'interacting' with older adults in a way that is utterly impossible (no-holds barred) to do in real life. That in itself is a situation asking to spiral out of control. But it corrects itself, they grow older and learn and adjust there mannerism -- not stopping the mudslinging. but oning it down- (most anyway) and new ones will come... and also go. And the cycle continues... A.net can ban Non-Av, but it will also inevidebly reduce it's 'viewership' and that is not conducive to being a popular site...

In the end, to ask everyone to act the same, think the same, behave the same, respond the same... it might as well be just one person chatting for all of us. As some here in this very thread have expressed their dislikes of others... I can't figure out why they keep 'reading their post and getting pissed about it' as you've all heard before.. just don't read it!



BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mdsh00
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:50 pm

One of the reasons why I like coming to this site (aside from my liking of airplanes) is that this forum has people from around the world sharing ideas. Sometimes things do go out of control but for the most part, we are all a civil bunch. It's just the few which cause the bad blood.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:43 pm

Gkirk:
You ain't nuttin' but a Gawd damn liberal!  Laugh out loud



Signed
Hairyass
(fmr. rightwing A.net user)
Bring back the Concorde
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 7455
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RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:04 pm

We should encourage people to explore different ideas to their own, and get them thinking outside the box. It is very healthy for the mind, and even if you do get the occasional jab (we all have) here and there it is expected as part of the deal with posting on 'Non-Aviation' forums on this site and others.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
StevenUhl777
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:20 am

StevenUhl777:
Best of luck in grad school.
What do you want to be when you grow up?


Thanks!  Big thumbs up

I'm a long way from ever being grown up, but the plan is to do a Master in International Business at Seattle U., which is just east of downtown. I'd like to be able to work for a company that actively does business in Germany, and hopefully maybe live there for over there for a year or two. We'll see...
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:53 pm

I have to attack the members personally. I am not smart enough to debate the issues.

Signed,
BN747
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 am

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:21 pm

I gotta agree that I have gone after the poster some times.
But that is only if the poster have written something insulting or simply is a total jackass.

It seems like a lot of posts (especially in non-av) end up spiraling downward into personal attacks or a competition between the usual people. It seems like OYRJA and his clogs and GKirk seem to eventually permeate every topic!

What have I done???  Big grin It is true that there are several threads about us. But that is just because a certain Scotsman is bored and have no life and therefor needs to start threads about others Big grin
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15259
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Going After Users Rather Than Discussion

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:09 am

" I let the other guy go personal on me 1st before I retaliate it. "

Wow, BN747 you are the biggest hypocrite here. I can't believe you can write that with a straight face and no sense of irony.
E pur si muove -Galileo

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