pilottj
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:23 pm

Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:21 am

Hey folks
Here is an interesting topic to debate. A few days ago, a Chico State U. frat student participated in a hazing ritual and died. Natuarly an event like this brings attention to this question. Were/are you a frat member and do you think it was a good experience. Some have negative views of frats because of the womanizing and binge drinking.
Like anything there are bad apples in every basket.

Your thoughts?
CHeers
TJ
God was my copilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him...
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:15 am

The behavior of a chapter of a frat depends on the school, sometimes. I went to college in East Texas and had a friend from a college in Houston come up to visit, and to attend a meeting of our schools chapter of his fraternity(ATO). It was a social fraternity, and I wasn't a member, but I knew if he went, he'd be pretty surprised. The members at our school, were real country boys, as opposed to the preppy (It was 1982) style of the Houston chapter....

Hazing has been a major issue for a while. Back in the 1980's
I was a member of a service fraternity, where we assisted our band program, and the word "hazing" was a no-no, period. I have heard of chapters of some frats having their charters pulled for even the slightest hint of some sort of ritual that could cause harm.

And let me tell you, I have heard that the social frat boys party hard, but you have not lived till you go to a party thrown by a band-geek frat.

Is it a good experience? Yeah, I think so. If you have a well run frat, and a good bunch of members, then it will be a good experience, and chances are, at least of few friends you make will stay with you.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:22 am

I'd say the original concept was laud-worthy... but now, they've become more of a joke than anything.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:25 am

Here al LSU for the most part the frats are useless for any constructive goals. However there are exceptions, and the best part about them is you often have your own room and are really close to campus. Here at LSU they even have a bus that takes them to class. I wouldn't suggest joining unless you are a big partier.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:59 am

TriStarEnvy, I'm an active in the Epsilon chapter of KKPsi. We're not the typical fraternity, first of all, because we pay a small fee every year, not the gargantuan amounts that regular Greeks' parents pay (this gives us a much more diverse membership). Secondly, we're co-ed, since we don't have TBS (our sister sorority) at MSU, and we don't haze, period. I don't think that it helps build stronger ties of brotherhood.

My sister was a Tri-Delt, and I'm an active in Kappa Kappa Psi.

I know that there is brotherhood in social fraternities, but really, to me it does seem like buying your friends. And they don't serve much of a constructive purpose, generally (although some are good about actually doing service projects).
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:29 am

How-doo, Brother Cliff! Gamma Phi member 82-85.

Here's a phrase you may know..."Gimmie your book, pledge!"

KKY was a great place to meet folks. My big brother during pledgeship and I chat via e-mail, daily.

And hazing wasn't in our book, either.

Wahtcha play? I was baritone/euphonium.



[Edited 2005-02-04 22:37:04]
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:40 am

Heh. I graduated from college years ago, and to this day I regret the fact that I wasn't asked to join a frat. Even though they accounted for no more than 20% to 25% of the male students at my college (there were no sororities at the time), they definitely dominated social life. I probably missed out on a lot, and unfortunately the frat experience is nothing that one can duplicate once out of college.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:36 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:24 am

as i stated in the duplicate thread that apparently was deleted, i found my frat experience to be absolutely wonderful.

at dartmouth however there is a system in place where you cannot join a house until the middle of your sophomore year. by that time you already have a solid base of friends, and you incidentally know what each house has to offer and you rush that house and more often than not you get a bid to join. also, there is so little traditional hazing--almost none. however the "hazing" activites are very fun and since you already know so many of the guys as friends already they are watching out for you and never would make you do anything that 1) is against your own voilition, 2) would cause serious physical harm. hell, each house always had one or two guys who didnt even drink. the organizations did well on the whole, for the campus. many people dont see the point of treating someone like crap for a period of time only to call him "brother" at the conclusion. the current system has obviously evolved over time--hell, dartmouth is where the guys who wrote "animal house" went and based that movie on their fraternity experiences.

i think other schools dont have a system with checks in place plus many schools have rush as soon as a kid steps on campus. the only way so many guys can "prove" their dedication to a house is to subject themselves to such hazing, resultantly sad cases like this boy who died of water intoxication will occur.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:46 pm

20-25% of guys in frats is a lot. At Mississippi State it's more like 12%.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:57 pm

Here at LSU they even have a bus that takes them to class. I wouldn't suggest joining unless you are a big partier.

...and that's putting it lightly.

My first year at LSU was before all the morons started drinking themselves into oblivion every other year-- circa 1997/1998, it was baaaaaad.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:07 pm

Step onto campus and you can practically smell the booze. j/k

On the other hand, I had a good time visiting with the LSU KKPsi chapter last fall when we visited Baton Rouge for the game and spent the night. Walked all around campus, saw the tiger cage, the quad, inside the music building and the band hall, the Greek theater, etc. We had a great time and a good visit.

I'm on the in the back on the left, hidden behind Brad (wearing the light blue t-shirt)



[Edited 2005-02-05 09:12:05]

[Edited 2005-02-05 09:12:49]
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:05 am

20-25% of guys in frats is a lot. At Mississippi State it's more like 12%.

It was a small college, probably no more than 800 or 900 male students, and had seven frats. Even though none of the frats were very large the numbers added up pretty well.
As I mentioned, they heavily dominated campus social life.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:36 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:48 am

at my school it was nearly half of eligible students were in a fraternity or sorority. because of the large numbers though and small houses (physically houses were not allowed more than 25 beds in a house) caused the members to live out and about in the dorms--we had no kitchens or chefs, so the system was really very open.
 
avek00
Posts: 3159
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:12 am

Fraternities CAN be good for University life. At Morehouse, fraternities tended to dominate the SGA for many years - it actually worked out in everyone's best interests, as the average student (sadly) simply didn't give a rat's ass about student government or many of the issues facing the College as a whole. The Greeks "kept Morehouse first" and generally governed in a benevolent manner (Skimming some money off the top for themselves, of course, but most people didn't mind as long all the politicos "got fed").

Unfortunately, the system broke down, and we ended with a situation where we had a President who was more concerned about enriching his fraternity than giving a damn about, well, anything else. Interestingly enough, it also turned out to be the year that I served as the SGA Elections Chairman (depsite the President's attempts to fire me once it became clear that I'm nobody's puppet  Big grin ). Anyways, the two other main frats on campus proved most helpful, giving me (a non-Greek) the necessary votes to make sure we had a free and fair elections process, which interestingly enough threw the dogs out and led to a majority non-Greek government for the first time in a decade. The frats are essentially out of the government business (as groups - some individual Greeks still serve admirably within the gubmint), and oddly enough neither the Greeks nor the student body are complaining about it.  Smile

All of this is to say that whether frats are a boon or bane depends on the system under which they operate, like most anything else in life. Put them in a system with no oversight and where the "bad guy" always wins, and they will act accordingly. Conversely, provide meaningful oversight and strongly disincentivize bad frat behavior, and they don't cause many problems at all.
Live life to the fullest.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:23 pm

Wasn't the original point of frats to make connections?

Now its just a route to alcohol and some partying.

I originally considered rushing and then pledging, but eventually decided against it. Then a couple years later I thought of joining the engineering fraternity and decided against it still.

Some of the hazing routines are just ridiculous though.

Has anyone had to do the elephant walk?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:17 pm

I never liked the idea of a traditional drink-till-u-puke-so-you-can-fit-in type of fraternities. There are academic and service fraternities though, I'm not sure if they have the same boorish type of feel to them though.

I never liked the frat party scene... too much drinking, indiscriminate sex, etc. etc.

I think it is more worthwhile to have a small circle of intimate friends than to have a have a ton of people that couldn't care less about you if you didn't leak beer through every orifice.

Just my 2 cents.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:09 am

Theta Tau (the engineering fraternity in the US) is definately different from your typical frat, at least it is at MSU.

There are academic and service fraternities though, I'm not sure if they have the same boorish type of feel to them though.

They don't, usually.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:55 am

I attended two different colleges (One a two-year school, the other a regular college), and the two year school had no form of Greek Life at all on campus. Other than the sports teams, the only folks on campus @ DeKalb College (Now Georgia Perimeter Colledge) who really hung and partied were the drama folks (of which I was one), and we could throw some throwdowns. When i transfered to Georgia State, I thought about joining one of their Frats, but at the time, GSU was more of a "commuter school" (as they didn't have any campus housing at the time) and the Greek Life on campus really paled in comparison to Ga Tech and UGA, and still does. Schools with little if any housing have problems attracting students to join clubs and organizations on campus (At DeKalb, I was involve with the Drama Club and the campus radio station [interestingly enough, about half of the radio station folks were involved in the drama dept. as well.]).

Do I miss never joining a fraternity? No, as I saw some of the things that can happen through my sister, who was in a sorority at her college and ended up partying more than going to class and really messed up her life for many years.
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:10 am

Frats are great. It's the only way I can get it in the ass.



Signed,
Jcs17
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:34 am

I reluctantly joined a fraternity in my 2nd year at University. They're not that common here in Canada relative to the USA. I was VERY hesitant and questioned my decision constantly throughout the pledge process.

Looking back 10 years, I think it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I am very proud of my Fraternity.

As for hazing causing harm or death --- the fraternities involved should have their charters revoked and the individuals responsible should be charged criminally. There is absolutely nothing good about hazing. I don't understand why people do it.


G
 
slider
Posts: 6812
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:35 am

I had a rather heated debate with another A.net member about this very subject some months ago.

I can understand that we might agree to disagree, and everyone's own personal experiences will certainly affect their outlook of being Greek, but for me it was one of the best experiences of my life...and remains so.

The origins of fraternities in America is as old as the country itself....a debating society, place to discuss issues of the day and so forth. Some of today's social fraternities were originally devised as professional societies (legal, engineering, etc).

My own take on it is that when I went to college, I was ambivalent if not overtly anti-Greek. No, not me...Animal House? Hazing? Binge drinking? No thanks.

But--and this is MY experience and may not be typical, although the Greek world is trying to evolve beyond the stereotypes--I soon learned even before rushing that my chapter and house didn't haze, didn't call their pledges "pledges" but associates, and was engaged in rigorous academics as well as philanthropy that would make the local Kiwanians blush.

For me, those were big drawing points. And the fact that the chapter GPA was greater than the all-men's GPA of the university. And that it was a massively diverse group of all races, all geographies, all demographics, from surfer boys to stoners to tee-totalers and ROTC cadet officers and all points in between.

Professionally, the networking is invaluable. It's opened doors for me like few other associations I've been a part of. And socially, without question, it rocked.

 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:17 am

i.e. Hubitat for Humanity



Beautification Projects



There's more pictures, like playing bowling, basketball with kids from the Special Olympics... Several blood drives, and can food drives... One semester, we raised over $10000 in philanthropy money that went to several charities.

It was a bitch to maintain that required 3.0+ GPA if you wanted to stay in, and it was a bitch hiding from the RA more than twice a day because he knew you had a bottle of Stolichnaya hiding somewhere...

We never forced a pledge to do something they didn't want to. The time I was pledging, our big brothers made us eat a those industrial buckets of peaches... It was an experience, but the memories are worth it.

...good Or Bad For University Life?
In anycase, being in a fraternity is a stressful thing. But it's worth what we put into for our society.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Frats...good Or Bad For University Life?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:18 am

Damn cut-off...

There's more pictures, like playing bowling, basketball with kids from the Special Olympics... Several blood drives, and can food drives... One semester, we raised over $10000 in philanthropy money that went to several charities.

It was a bitch to maintain that required 3.0+ GPA if you wanted to stay in, and it was a bitch hiding from the RA more than twice a day because he knew you had a bottle of Stolichnaya hiding somewhere...

We never forced a pledge to do something they didn't want to. The time I was pledging, our big brothers made us eat a those industrial buckets of peaches... It was an experience, but the memories are worth it.

...good Or Bad For University Life?
In anycase, being in a fraternity is a stressful thing. But it's worth what we put into for our society.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: UltimateDelta and 17 guests