rjpieces
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NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:13 am

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--gaymarriage-ny0204feb04,0,1014259,print.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

NEW YORK -- A Manhattan judge declared Friday that the section of state law that forbids same-sex marriage is unconstitutional _ the first ruling of its kind in New York and one that if upheld on appeal would allow gay couples to wed.

State Supreme Court Justice Doris Ling-Cohan ruled that the words "husband," "wife," "groom" and "bride" in relevant sections of the Domestic Relations Law "shall be construed to mean 'spouse,"' and "all personal pronouns ... shall be construed to apply equally to either men or women."

Ling-Cohan ruled on the side of five same-sex couples who were denied marriage licenses. She said the New York City clerk could not deny a license to any couple solely on the ground that the two are of the same sex.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:29 am

Wow, I've been thinking about this and it's wonderful news. Mayor Bloomberg is running for re-election this year, and I seriously doubt he will appeal the ruling. So in 30 days, gay couples will start marrying in NYC!

If the city doesn't appeal, is there anything that can stop this?

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1634
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jake056
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:36 am

The city will appeal the ruling. trust me. The state legislature will also get in on the act. So I wouldn't go mailing any invites yet.
 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:39 am

The city will appeal the ruling. trust me. The state legislature will also get in on the act. So I wouldn't go mailing any invites yet.

A mayor who is pro-gay marriage is going to appeal a ruling allowing gay marriage in an election year? The chances of that happening are low.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
VSlover
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:42 am

i seriously doubt the city would appeal. first off mayor bloomberg has a quite liberal stance towards civil unions and has said it time and time again. second, in an election run-up it would be disastrous for him to even side against gay marriage with the city something like 90% democratic and really probably like 40% gay (kidding).

remember this is a mayor who switched party affiliations simply to be able to run for mayor in the first place and who continually distances himself as best he can from republicans.

but the state legislature...well thats a different story, and governor pataki is the worst thing ever to happen to the state and the city, so there wont be many surprises there.
 
jake056
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:11 am

The city will appeal. There is a world of difference between "marriage" and "civil union". Support for one does not necessarily translate into support for the other.

Mayor Bloomberg is practical politician. He will get around this by saying that while he supports civil unions, the issue of "gay marriage" is one that will have to be decided in NYS (since it is a state issue), by the state legislature, the statewide electorate, or the NYS Court of Appeals--or some combo of the foregoing.

This issue is not one that is to be decided by a lone trial court judge, and he will view it as his duty as mayor to appeal.
 
SFOMEX
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:13 am

Does Gov Pataki have the legal ground to appeal if the Mayor didn't appeal the ruling?
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
jake056
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:23 am

If the city of New York decides not to appeal, NYS through the state attorney general's office could have standing to appeal. That is because the NYS Attorney General has previously issued a formal opinion that it is against the laws and regulations of the state for same sex couples to wed. This is not a city issue, it is a state issue.

Please note that the mayor of New Paltz, N.Y. (who tried to wed same sex couples) recently had criminal charges reinstated against him for failing to carry out his duties in executing the laws of NY. In other words he was purposefully doing that which the State forbids. So he violated his oath of office to uphold the laws of the state.

Thus, I do believe the city will appeal regardless of this being an election year.

 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:44 pm

The city will appeal. There is a world of difference between "marriage" and "civil union". Support for one does not necessarily translate into support for the other

Not really. Many gays couldn't care less about the word "marriage"; equal benefits and rights is what is important.

Mayor Bloomberg is practical politician. He will get around this by saying that while he supports civil unions, the issue of "gay marriage" is one that will have to be decided in NYS (since it is a state issue), by the state legislature, the statewide electorate, or the NYS Court of Appeals--or some combo of the foregoing.

I doubt it. It will create an uproar here in NYC. There are ways for Christian right-wing groups to stop this; Getting Bloomberg to appeal likely isn't one of them. There is absolutely NO upside for Bloomberg to appeal.

Does Gov Pataki have the legal ground to appeal if the Mayor didn't appeal the ruling?

I don't think so. However, certain groups might seek a court order to stop it, etc.

As the article above said, The ruling (which is stayed for 30 days in case the city chooses to appeal) says the New York City clerk may no longer deny marriage licenses to same-sex couples. If the city chooses to appeal the case, it has about a month to file a notice in state appeals court.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Ezra
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:15 pm

The city should appeal, even if it takes an agnostic view on the issue. Otherwise, the protection afforded by this ruling will be tenuous until a ruling ensues from the NY Court of Appeals.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:39 pm

This is if nothing more a step in the right direction. I applaud State Supreme Court Justice Doris Ling-Cohan on this decision.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
TACAA320
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:02 am

Judge Doris Ling-Cohan just followed The Law. I personally don't agree with her [nor The Law] but I respect her/it.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
JetJock22
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:36 am

I personally find this very troubling, but I guess that makes me a gay hater.
 
xpat
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:44 am

"I personally find this very troubling" WHY?

And let's not bring the Bible and Christianity into it, please.
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
JetJock22
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:53 am


"WHY?"

Because the girl I was engaged to and was planning on spending the rest of my life with just up and decided on Thanksgiving that she was gay and left me for another woman. Have that happen to ya and it doesn't put that lifestyle too high on your list. I guess I'm just an old school American who believes in a mom and a dad rasing the kids to be morally fit, God fearing people is the right thing to do. I feel bad for the kids who have to go to school today and get made fun of because they have 2 moms or 2 dads. To honestly answer your question, I just flat out find it wrong and if that explanation isn't good enough, I'm sorry, but that's the best you're gonna get. I don't have some in depth, deeply religious or moral speech to give about it, I just think it is wrong. And if that makes me a gay hater in yall's eyes, so be it. It's the way I feel and it's not going to change.
 
mbmbos
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:02 am

"Because the girl I was engaged to and was planning on spending the rest of my life with just up and decided on Thanksgiving that she was gay and left me for another woman. "

Geez, that's a really lousy thing to have happen. Sorry to hear about it.

"I feel bad for the kids who have to go to school today and get made fun of because they have 2 moms or 2 dads."

So the solution here is to banish gay marriage as opposed to teaching children to accept others no matter what their family situation might be? Interesting choice.

"...and if that explanation isn't good enough, I'm sorry, but that's the best you're gonna get."

Fine, as long as you understand that you refuse to reason for your beliefs and have so far lost this argument.

"And if that makes me a gay hater in yall's eyes, so be it. It's the way I feel and it's not going to change."

Well, at least you realize that you're a bigot. At least that's something.

- MBM
 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:05 am

Some interesting points raised by the NY papers today.

--State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said he will not intercede, asserting that the ruling pertained solely to New York City
--Mayor Bloomberg is scheduled to give a speech tonight at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay rights group. So the timing can't be worse for him.
--Bloomberg, and former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, both have said they support gay marriage.
--Mayoral candidates have spoken out already. Democratic front-runner Fernando Ferrer, City Council Speaker Gifford Miller, Queens Congressman Anthony Weiner and Manhattan Borough President Virginia Fields all spoke out in favor of the decision--with Miller and Ferrer urging Bloomberg not to fight it.
--One Republican insider speculated Bloomberg would anger more voters by appealing it than by letting it lie.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
JetJock22
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:14 am

"Well, at least you realize that you're a bigot. At least that's somethin"

There seems to be a big double standard here. It is ok for gay rights supporters to say the people that oppose that lifestyle are bigots, gay haters, close minded, whatever, and people seem to be ok with it. Yet when people like me speak out against it and voice our opinions, we are branded as gay haters and bigots and the like. Doesn't calling me a bigot or gay hater put us on the same playing field?
 
mbmbos
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:31 am

Here's the definition of bigot, JetJock22: "A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own."

Do you see yourself in this definition?

I am perfectly comfortable calling you a "bigot" because you have acknowledged that a) that you strongly disapprove of homosexuality and b) you have no intention of discussing the issue reasonably.

But instead, you try to turn the tables on this and accuse others of creating a double standard. I don't see other people on this forum posturing that they will never change their mind or refusing to even argue a point.

- MBM
 
JetJock22
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:35 am

I'm not trying to turn the tables, i was just raising a point. But just because I am not going to change my opinion, does that make me a bigot? I wasn't accusing you of trying to create a double standard, I was simply saying it seems like there is one with society, that's all. If you don't think so, that's fine, I can respect that and I respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.
 
mbmbos
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:50 am

"But just because I am not going to change my opinion, does that make me a bigot?"

The combination of disdaining a whole class of people and refusing to be open-minded to discussion is the very definition of bigotry.

There is nothing wrong with remaining true to your principles. Just keep in mind that your principle must always stand up to scrutiny - especially your own personal scrutiny.

Okay, I'm going to play the "age" card here (something I dislike doing). The older I get, the less I perceive the world in black-and-white terms. Now, some people on this forum would accuse me of sliding down the slippery slope of moral relativism. But I think it happens naturally to people who think and grow as they age.

I've just come to the point in my life where I'm not going to waste my time judging others.

I just think it's really important for someone of your age to think about things - to look at issues in a different light, to reconsider, to reevaluate. If your beliefs are built on a solid foundation, then they'll hold up. If not, then you will embrace a truer platform of beliefs.

For what it's worth, keep it in mind.

- MBM
 
PDPsol
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:37 am

Guys,

I am attending the HRC gala dinner here in NYC this evening with a big group of friends [it starts ~2hrs]. I had absolutely NO idea Bloomberg had been invited to attend and am now VERY interested in listening to what he has to say.

I will post my reactions to his speech when it get back!!

PS: I am very excited to hear what everyone will say this evening!!

[Edited 2005-02-05 22:41:12]
 
SFOMEX
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:49 am

Talking about values, bigotry and tolerance. What would you say of somebody who supports gay rights and civil unions, yet he/she believes that marriage should be only for a man and a woman?
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
mbmbos
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:14 am

"What would you say of somebody who supports gay rights and civil unions, yet he/she believes that marriage should be only for a man and a woman?"

I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

- MBM
 
jake056
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:25 am

Mayor Bloomberg said the city will appeal the ruling. While he supports gay marriage, he believes it is best left decided to higher courts and the people. He does not want the chaos that San Francisco had a few months ago.

Thought this is how it would turn out in NY. Stay tuned.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:38 am

Jolly good - it's not the entire country, but it's a start.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:47 am

and decided on Thanksgiving that she was gay and left me for another woman.

No... she decided to leave you on Thnxgvg.

The b!tch LONNNNNG since knew she was a boxmuncher at that point.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
yanksn4
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

This ruling once again affirms my believe that the Congress should pass a constitutional amendment that out-laws Homosexual marriage. If the homosexual community wants to make gay-marriage legal, do it through the legislators and through the people. These judges have too much power and need to be restrained from imposing their beliefs on the country.

signed,
Matthew
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:46 am

These judges have too much power and need to be restrained from imposing their beliefs on the country.

The exact same statement could be applied to Civil Rights for African Americans decades ago. Or to laws banning interracial marriage.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jasepl
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:57 am

The exact same statement could be applied to Civil Rights for African Americans decades ago. Or to laws banning interracial marriage.

That's true. But the really isn't much point in arguing this with certain people. If anyone's beliefs don't happen to coincide with their own, those beliefs must be wrong and the world must be rid of them.
 
Falcon84
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:14 pm

These judges have too much power and need to be restrained from imposing their beliefs on the country.

Yanksn4, judges only seem to have too much power when they're making decisions you don't like (or I don't like). To amend the constitution to specifically tell a group of Americans they can't do something that others are allowed to do is an abomination, and it should be quashed as soon as possible.

In the long run, all these assinine laws against gays will be taken off the book, and people will wonder what all the fuss from a few prudish individuals was all about.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
KyleLosAngeles
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:21 pm

JetJock, if your girlfriend had left you for another guy - would you feel hate for the heterosexual 'lifestyle' ?

Think about it.



It's understandable that you're upset. But you're upset with the wrong thing.
Happy 2006
 
Falcon84
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:31 pm

Kyle, excellent point.

I think JetJock was predisposed to feel loathing and bigotry for gays to begin with, and this situation only reinforces that dislike, and now he feels justified in sticking it to anyone who is gay because of it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
JetJock22
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:45 pm

Predisposed or not, I still don't agree with the lifestyle. Doesn't mean I hate gay people as I have a few friends who are gay. I just don't agree with the lifestyle, dunno how else to explain it or make it much clearer than that.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:54 pm

Marriage in the eyes of the state is a legal union involving certain legal rights and responsibilities to each other and to the state.

As tax-paying citizens of a nation, why should homosexuals be denied access to this legal union when states champion anti-discrimination in all other fields regardless of sexual preference?!

This is why I support gay marriage. If religions do not approve of gay marriage then by all means ban gay marriages from your places of worship. The opinions of churches should not affect what is essentially a legal issue.
I refuse to see marriage as an exclusively religious action. Marriage can be secular and in the eyes of the law it is secular.

"I feel bad for the kids who have to go to school today and get made fun of because they have 2 moms or 2 dads."

I feel sorry for people who believe that bullies should dictate social policy. Years ago people were saying the exact same thing about mixed race children - well, the playground learned to deal with it. They will have to learn to deal with children of gay parents. As far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it. Who are we to deny a couple the right to share their life together as a legally married couple and bring children into a loving and caring home?
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Falcon84
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:58 pm

I still don't agree with the lifestyle.

Neither do I, but I'm not predisposed as you are to deny them of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness under the Constitution of the United States of America, either, sir. This assinine proposal to "protect" marriage is a violation, I think, of liberty and the pursuit of happiness, spelled out in said constitution.

You can not like their lifestyle all you want. That's no evil deed, but it is to deny them the same basic rights as all other Americans have, who aren't gay. That's just igonrant discrimination, and it's being lead by the Ignorant-In-Chief, in this particular instance.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Mir
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:23 pm

This ruling once again affirms my believe that the Congress should pass a constitutional amendment that out-laws Homosexual marriage. If the homosexual community wants to make gay-marriage legal, do it through the legislators and through the people. These judges have too much power and need to be restrained from imposing their beliefs on the country.

Damn straight!!! I hate those judges!!! Who do they think they are to make these kind of judgements???

[/sarcasm]  Insane

-Mir

P.S. Matthew, you might remember that it was JUDGES (those on the Supreme Court) who stopped the Florida recounts back in 2000 and thus made your beloved Bush president. If you say that judges need to be restrained from pushing their beliefs on the country, then surely you'll understand my stance that judges need to be restrained from screwing around with the electoral process.  Big grin
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flybyguy
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:02 pm

I agree that judges should not impose their belief systems upon the law. However, I feel they should interpret the law with intelligence. And by having rogue judges rule for or against gay marriage without input from the state is wrong.

It is ultimately up to the state to decide whether to institute these drastic measures. If my state happens to approve gay marriage then I have no choice but to accept that, although I have moral opposition to such an occurrence.

The when our governmental and judiciary processes work, it is a marvel in and of itself, however questionable the morality of final legislation and judgements may be.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
Mir
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:45 pm

I agree that judges should not impose their belief systems upon the law. However, I feel they should interpret the law with intelligence.

Agreed. However, I think that most judges do interpret with intelligence. Since they are human, they will always have some personal bias, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they do their jobs, in general, very well.

And by having rogue judges rule for or against gay marriage without input from the state is wrong.

You could say that they already have the input from the state in the form of the state laws on whatever subject they are ruling on. Since this is all about gay marriage, I'll use that as an example. In the state where I go to college, North Dakota, there was a referendum passed in this election that ensured that gays would never have the same marriage rights or benefits as straights, no matter if it were through marriages or civil unions (which is basically in my mind saying that gays are below straights, and thus is to me absolutely abhorrent, but that's another subject for another time). So, if the judge were ruling in North Dakota, they would have to take that into consideration. When this judge made the ruling in New York, she was citing New York state law. If New York state wants to make a ruling on the subject, it can via the legislature. The judge will then have to take that into account. But one can't fault a judge for doing what they are supposed to do: read the existing laws and interpret fairly based on those.


On another note, I really have to ask this question:

WHAT THE HELL ABOUT THIS ISSUE IS GETTING SO MANY PEOPLE SO WORKED UP?????
I would like someone to please tell me how gay marriage is bad. And since we all know that you not agreeing with something or finding it to be immoral is not grounds to outlaw it, you can't say "I just find it to be wrong." I really would like to know. If you can't think of such a reason, THEN IT SHOULD NOT BE MADE ILLEGAL.
Look to Canada for some inspiration here. Their PM is Catholic and obviously is not in favor of gay marriage. But what he has realized is that him not liking something does not translate into a legal reason for banning it, nor does he have grounds to push his beliefs on other people (so long as they're not trying to hurt others, which gays are not).

As I write this, it is the early morning across the US. If gay marriage were to be legalized nationwide right now, I really don't think that any of us would notice a big difference when we woke up. In fact, I don't think any of us would even realize that it had happened. So, I ask you all, what is the big deal?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
avek00
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:58 pm

"If gay marriage were to be legalized nationwide right now, I really don't think that any of us would notice a big difference when we woke up. In fact, I don't think any of us would even realize that it had happened. So, I ask you all, what is the big deal?"

Religion and morality. One could argue that it was morally just to grant equal rights to Blacks, based on religious teachings and the notion that "all men are created equal". Granting marraige rights to gays would, simply put, require many people to set aside some of their most deeply held religious and moral beliefs - hence the absolute of lack of traction on the issue.

Rightly or wonrgly, it is what it is.
Live life to the fullest.
 
TACAA320
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:46 pm

Confirmed.

Mayor Bloomberg, according with CNN Headline News, said that the City of N.Y. is appealing Judge Doris Ling-Cohan decision.

Will see what the Appealing Court has to say...
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
xpat
Posts: 595
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:06 pm

"What would you say of somebody who supports gay rights and civil unions, yet he/she believes that marriage should be only for a man and a woman?"
I'd say a) they're entitled to their opinion and b) it doesn't make much sense.
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
PacificWestern
Posts: 517
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:44 pm

For all of those who are so vehemently opposed to gay marriage/unions, the following link should be an inspiration. Better yet, why not travel up to Calgary and help to spread your hatred and ignorance.  Sad

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/05/rally-samesex050205.html

Unfortunately, overall Canada is no better than the USA in these matters.

 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:03 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/nyregion/06marriage.html

Mayor Bloomberg will appeal the decision to the NY Court of Appeals, as he should in order to settle any legal ramifications.

The Mayor has also publicly stated that he supports gay marriages.

Yes, gay marriages, not just civil unions.;

I guess in the Northeast, the libertarian Rockefeller Republican tradition lives on in the form of Bloomberg, Snowe, Collins, and Whitman. I've been reading Christie Todd Whitman's "It's My Party, Too: The Battle for the Heart of the GOP and the Future of America," and it saddened me, but it also gave me hope. The first politician I canvassed for was Bill Weld, a Republican from MA, and one of my favorite politicians of all times was Millicent Fenwick, that feisty libertarian Republican from New Jersey. If the libertarian wing of the GOP successfully manages to combat GWB and his merry band of ugly evangelicals, then I may at some point even go back and vote for the GOP again.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TACAA320
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:09 am

"The Mayor has also publicly stated that he supports gay marriages."

Isn't 2005 an election year?


'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
jaysit
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:13 am

"The Mayor has also publicly stated that he supports gay marriages."

Isn't 2005 an election year?


Oh, is that why GWB kissed the hairy, droopy behinds of his evangelical friends to support a constitutionally based ban against gay marriages in 2004? Because 2004 was an election year? Or does he really like to shred the constitution to bits?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
rjpieces
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:19 am


Isn't 2005 an election year?


It's New York City. I take great pride in the fact that NYC is the most culturally advanced city in the US and perhaps the world.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Mir
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:43 am

Isn't 2005 an election year?

Indeed it is. And the cool thing about New York City is that it is probably going to HELP him to have made that statement.

A thought just occurred to me: what if Bloomberg sent this to the Court of Appeals knowing that it would be upheld (which would then make it legal at the state level, and solve the gay marriage issue in New York State once and for all)? It's possible that I'm giving him credit for more intelligence than he has, but it would be a pretty intelligent thing to do.


Avek00: Religion and morality. One could argue that it was morally just to grant equal rights to Blacks, based on religious teachings and the notion that "all men are created equal". Granting marraige rights to gays would, simply put, require many people to set aside some of their most deeply held religious and moral beliefs - hence the absolute of lack of traction on the issue.

That's fine if people feel that way, but I would like to point out that religious and moral beliefs have NO legal value, and thus are not justification for discrimination against a certain group. There are a few countries in the world that are governed by religion (Afghanistan under the Taliban is a good example), but the United States is not one of them. We believe in the principle of separation of church and state.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SFOMEX
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:00 am

Oh, is that why GWB kissed the hairy, droopy behinds of his evangelical friends to support a constitutionally

If the libertarian wing of the GOP successfully manages to combat GWB and his merry band of ugly evangelicals


Jaysit, why do you hate Evangelicals? You seem to hate their beliefs and they seem to hate your lifestyle. Umm, seems like you deserve each other after all.

The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
jaysit
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RE: NY Judge Strikes Down Ban On Same-Sex Marriage

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:46 pm

Jaysit, why do you hate Evangelicals? You seem to hate their beliefs and they seem to hate your lifestyle.

I dislike them for the scant respect they have for the separation of Church and State, for their disrespect of scientific rationalism, for their pig-headed insistence in imposing their wretched brand of morality on everyone else. I could go on, but I am sure that A.net has limited bandwidth.

My dislike of their interference in my life and that of other "non-believers" has never impinged on the practice of their faith. I wish them well, and hope that they continue to exercise their right to practice their faith, which this country gives them. None of my efforts to live my life with dignity and without fear impinges on their lives in any way. Yet, the mere existence of open gay men and women somehow galvanizes these people to go on the attack.

Do I lobby Congress to prevent their practice of their faith? No. Do I say that Evangelicals cannot adopt? No. Do I say that Evangelicals cannot run for office? No. Do I in any way tell them what they can or cannot do in their homes, in their Churches, with their children? No. I couldn't care less what they or anyone else does.

Their hatred of me and my "so-called lifestyle" (whatever lifestyle may mean... I am still trying to decipher that one) not only affects my life, but that of the family I have created, and the equality I demand. They insist on denying me the same battery of rights that they possess in this country, and they do that by hijacking all the legislative bodies in this country.

Umm, seems like you deserve each other after all.

Ummm, it seems like you have a lot of growing up to do. Why do I- and other gay people in this country - deserve to be confronted by people who are hell bent on denying us the basic respect and rights that others enjoy? Or do you just type first, and think later?
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