Douglas DC-9
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Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:35 pm

Why is DIESEL so expensive? I'm an owner/operator trucker and these fuel bills are killing me! Here in Wisconsin it's currently $2.07 for diesel and $1.98 for regular! And that 2.07 REALLY adds up when you've got 350 gallons of diesel in your two fuel tanks and get 2-4 miles to a gallon (on a good day)! Why is it so expensive? It is cheaper to make, and the demand for it is less then gasoline, so why the high prices?


Thanks Much,
DC-9-32
 
Springbok747
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:47 pm

It is cheaper to make, and the demand for it is less then gasoline.

Uh...I thought diesel is in more demand than petrol. I'm assuming this because most of the trucks and other heavy equipment are diesel vehicles, and they have huge tanks...so diesel is being used up faster than petrol.
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Dash8King
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:57 pm

Not sure but in Canada it is cheaper.
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:01 pm

Across here, depending on where you go, you can get it a lot cheaper than Petrol although a car doesn't use as much Diesel as it would Petrol.

Dog
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:04 pm

It is actually more expensive to refine diesel than regular unleaded.
It pollutes more too, so IMHO it should even be more expensive !

UTA
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Kay
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:30 pm

Didn't know Diesel was more expensive in the US??

It sure is the opposite in Europe. Kind of discourages you of liking cars and wanting to buy one. Unless they find a way to make Diesel engines rev happily to 8000, and not sound like a Beetle on idle (the first beetle).


Fuel is sooooooooooooo expensive in Europe!!!! :'(((

Kay
 
rindt
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:37 pm

And here I was thinking he was gonna talk about Diesel Jeans. LOL.

But yeah, Diesel is creeping upwards here too - sometimes more expensive than regular!

-Rob
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LBA
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:13 pm

Try buying 350 gallons of UK diesel at 83p ($1.60) per LITRE, then complain about the cost!
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:42 pm

Upon importing or pumping up crude oil the refining process produces many grades of petroliums and oils. These range from high end such as Jet A1 fuel and the like down through petrol, diesel, kerosene and at the bottom the stuff they use for bituman and vulcanising rubber and the like.

So, having refined crude oil to get petrol you have certain by-products such as diesel wether you want them or not. The price these then sell at is of course determined by demand. Demand in the US for diesel is high while in Europe, Japan and New Zealand for example it is lower.

Freight is mainly transported by truck in the US and trains still run on diesel so it is a higher demand product than say NZ or Japan where most railways are electrifed and more use is made of coastal shipping thus diesel sells for about 60% the price of petrol in Japan and about the same in NZ i.e. they sell it cheap to ensure they get rid of it.
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fastair
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:57 pm

UTA_Flyinghigh,

It pollutes more too,

I disagree. Once upon a time, yes they were dirty, but a modern common-rail Diesel (or even the generation before that) is just as clean as a petrol equivalent.

It produces more particulates but new diesels have particulate filters which put the diesel at exactly the same level as the petrol engine for emissions. Diesels also burn less to start with, they are simply more efficient.

Of course oil companies are trying to supress alternative fuels such as biodiesel, but when it eventually becomes more easily available, diesel will be the true 'green' fuel.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:36 pm

Diesel costing so much is a major problem in the trucking industry right now.

It is winter, and in Wisconsin the demand for home heating oil (non-tax diesel) is up and that may be some of the reason. However, it is high everywhere else and it has been higher than gas for a long time. I know the fuel prices have driven several smaller companies that I know of out of business.

Part of the problem is demand. Demand for all fuels is at an all time high and we haven't built a new refinery in the US in at least 20 years (it may be closer to 30). The reason for that is the tree huggers and the dimwits in Washington that listen to them have made it cost prohibitive for companies build new refineries.

The dimwits in Washington could fix some of the problem by cutting the federal taxes on fuel, the states could do the same thing. That would assume they were concerned with the well being of small businesses in their state instead of just their budget.
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desertjets
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:48 pm

I've also heard the home heating oil explanation too. Which is pretty similar to diesel fuel. With limited refining capacity and high constant demand for diesel fuel and seasonal demand for home heating oil, diesel fuel normally jumps in price in the winter months. Whereas gasoline spikes in the summer months.

When it comes down to it, it is really simple microeconomics.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:12 am

Over here, diesel always used to be considerably cheaper than gasoline. After the recent price surge couple months ago, the prices of gas dropped, but the retailers somehow "forgot" to do the same with diesel so now it's more expensive.
I guess they (along with the governement) take advantage of the fact that trucks and buses all use diesel and are less likely to quit or reduce operations once the fuel gets expensive.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:42 am

"Which is pretty similar to diesel fuel."

Home heating oil IS diesel fuel, the people selling it just have to drop a dye tab in (either green or red, I forget) so that someone doesn't use it in a vehicle. The color tells anyone who may check the color of your fuel that you didn't pay the highway use tax.

There is also a lot of new enviromental crap going on with diesel. a few years ago there was a switch from what refiners call high sulfur diesel to low sulfur diesel, which destroyed some older engines. Now there is talk of a switch to an ultra-low sulfur diesel, so look for prices to go up even higher when that happens (costs more to refine). Prices are even going up on the trucks themselves with the new emissions standards being put out for trucks.

Reformulated gasoline is also a reason for higher gas prices... supply issues are still an overriding factor though. Ethanol was supposed to save us all this money when we started burning it, instead fuel prices are steadily rising because of it.

MTBE is going to be the next gas component to go and there is still no better alternative (except tetra-ethyl lead) so that should cause gas prices to rise even more.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:57 am

Out here its cheaper than Deisel.Although the gap is reducing.
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TSV
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:58 am

*******AMAZING STORIES*******

A Yank who knows what Diesel is! After watching a couple of series of "The Amazing Race" where racing Yank couples invariably fill Diesels with Unleaded I was beginning to wonder if any of you guys knew what it was ...
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:50 am

"Yank couples invariably fill Diesels with Unleaded I was beginning to wonder if any of you guys knew what it was"

People on reality TV are usually pretty stupid, that is why they are on Reality TV.

The smell usually gives away what kind of fuel a vehicle uses.

Would a diesel engine even run on unleaded? I always thought that was one of the worst things you could do.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
JUANR
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:37 am

Here in Colombia Diesel is cheaper than gasoline about 50%.

Juan
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srbmod
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:44 am

I know my employer is probably wishing all of our delivery vehicles weren't diesels. The last time I filled up my truck, it was right around $90, I remember when it costing around $60. I could care less about the price since we just use a fleet gas card. If I had to pay for my fuel, I'd be complaining too. The seasonal demands affect the price of diesel. When the winter is milder, the demand for heating oil falls, so the price of diesel falls as a result of extra supplies. This is also why diesel fuel is cheaper during the warmer months.
 
kalakaua
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:10 am

I remember the days when diesel used to be cheaper than unleaded... That was a couple of years ago.
Now it costs as much as super unleaded.
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pilotaydin
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:21 am

damn, the cheapest thing out here in my town is Diesel, which is why many people have sold their vehicles and have switched
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:32 am

I noticed yesterday the cost of diesel in ANC is about $1.98US a gallon. Unleaded is now around $1.68US a gallon.

I can remember, a year ago, the opposite being true. I was always smiling when I pulled my BAFDT up to the Shell station and got away cheaper with 40 gal of diesel than the guy next to me with the Toyota "Speck" . . .

Not any more. SO . . . why does diesel remain higher than gasoline?
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Commander Data
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:58 am

CaptOveur

I forgot, but I believe taxed diesel is green, and non-taxed diesel (off road diesel) is red. Not 100% sure on that though. Off road diesel is basically for things that don't use roads, ect. Like farm tractors and mining trucks for example. Those miners need it, most of those HUGE dump trucks get less then 800 ft. to a gallon, with an 850 gallon tank. I'd sure hate to foot the bill for a fleet of those beasts!

UTA_Flyinghigh

Despite what most people think, diesel is very clean not to mention VERY efficent! Imagine that big Caterpillar 797 truck running on a gasoline engine, it'd get inches to a gallon. Theres a good reason SUV makers are starting to offer diesels in their larger vehicles-- for the higher MPG's and for torque!

Data
 
dc10tim
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:36 am

Generally over here diesel works out at about $8 a gallon, so you haven't got it that bad. I must admit though 3-4 miles to the gallon does kinda cancel that out. Just drive smaller cars  Smile

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:28 am

Around SE Michigan this past summer, diesel was alsways cheaper than unleaded. It remained about $1.80, even when regualr was about $2.00-$2.10. That sucks that it jumped up in price.
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doug_or
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:36 pm

Just drive smaller cars

kind of useless advise for a trucker.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:56 pm

"I forgot, but I believe taxed diesel is green"

I know the stuff that comes out of the pump for vehicles is clear. Not sure about the other colors though.
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America West A
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:25 pm

I understand where you are coming from DC-9! I used to be an owner/operator too, however I couldn't make it on my own and now drive for Schneider National, of Green Bay, WI. I think all the fuel problems are just a big crock of shit! It's just a game to those BIG oil companies!


America West Air
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:38 pm

...And you're 13-15?
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OB1504
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:06 pm

America West A, are you related to another A.net member, Airlinerfreak?
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:16 pm

Interesting that a 13-15 year old is a truck driver...
 
N670UW
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:13 pm

I wish I could've driven a truck when I was 13.  Sad



N670UW
 
57AZ
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:39 pm

How much diesel costs is reflected on the buying power of the purchaser. The average citizen or trucker pays more for it than unleaded motor fuel than the railroads or shipping companies. Just as the airlines hedge on aviation fuel, the railroads and maritime shipping companies buy their fuel months in advance at a locked in price. Where a railroad fuels a locomotive is driven both by fuel costs and operational constraints. Steam locomotives had to be fueled at certain points due to the necessity of fueling facilities (coaling towers and water towers and associated water treatment plants). Diesel electric locomotives are fueled by stopping alongside a fueling rack or having the truck drive out to the locomotive at outlying points. Also, their fuel capacity averages 3000 gallons with short haul and long haul locomotives having different tank capacities. Some railroads even experimented with semi-permanently coupled fuel tenders (tank cars dedicated to fuel service).
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Springbok747
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:55 pm

I wish I could've driven a truck when I was 13.

Hell, I'm 22 and I still can't drive a truck  Sad
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RayChuang
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:05 pm

Actually, with the EPA mandating that all motor fuels (petrol (neé gasoline) and diesel) must reduce sulfur levels to no more than 15 parts per million by September 2006, we may see by then the wide application of the very latest in diesel fuel-delivery and exhaust emission technology that could make diesel engine meet the very strict Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle certification, similiar to the EPA Tier 2 emissions standard.

Because of that, that will make it possible to sell diesel-powered automobiles in all 50 states in the USA. That could open the door for Mercedes-Benz to sell a lot more diesel-powered cars in the USA, BMW to finally bring over their high-performance diesel engines to the USA, and Honda to sell their well-regarded i-CTDi engine on the US-market Honda Accord. But a more significant impact is that it could allow SUV's, light trucks and minivans to switch to mostly diesel power, which could cut fuel consumption of these vehicles 35 to 45 percent!  Big thumbs up
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:54 pm

"I understand where you are coming from DC-9! I used to be an owner/operator too, however I couldn't make it on my own and now drive for Schneider National, of Green Bay, WI. "

Very interesting...Schneider National's own web page about employment states the following requirement for an "inexperienced driver"

http://www.schneider.com/schneiderjobs/drive_inexperienced.html

- At least 21 years old with a good driving record for the past three years
---------------------------------------
Yet, here we have Daniel, the 13-15 year old student from Milwaukee according to the profile, claiming to be a driver with them...nice try, kid, go back to school and grow up in the process...

Greg
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Leskova
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:20 pm

CaptOveur, a diesel can run on unleaded, but it should be mixed with diesel, and you certainly shouldn't overdo it... usually, people notice their mistake after pumping a few liters of unleaded into their fuel-tanks, and if they just fill up the rest with diesel, the engine won't sustain any damage.

On the other hand - add a bit of diesel to the fuel-tank of your regular-fuel burning car, and you'll kill the engine: when people pump diesel instead of regular, they usually need to get their tanks pumped out, or, if they've already driven with it and the engine quit on them, they need to get the whole thing cleaned, spark plugs exchanged, etc...

By the way - the current averages for Germany are:

Diesel: €0.932/l = €3.528/gal = $4.54/gal
Regular (91 oct) = €1.081/l = €4.092/gal = $5.266/gal
Super (95 oct) = €1.101/l = €4.167/gal = $5.362/gal
Superplus (98 oct) = €1.164/l = €4.406/gal = $5.67/gal

These values vary quite a bit - Diesel, for example, is as low as €0.867 in Hanau, while it's at €0.976 in Darmstadt...

Regards,
Frank
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:19 am

I used to be an owner/operator too

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bravo7e7
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:54 am

ROFLMAO, you must have been in tight competition with American West.
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Is Diesel So Expensive?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:03 pm

Actually, with the 2007 EPA mandate for all diesel in the US to be low sulpher, like it has been in Europe for a while, it will open the door to diesels to come back in a big way. As it is, Mercedes is bringing back the E-class diesel after a hiatus with the new 0-60 in 6.6 E320 CDi
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