rjpieces
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Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:12 am

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=2/14/2005&Cat=14&Num=001

Ignore the blatant propaganda such as "Zionist regime".

Israeli Foreign Minister Sylvan Shalom has announced that at least 10 Arab embassies will be established in Tel Aviv by the yearend. Qatar, Oman, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, and occupied Palestine are to send ambassadors to Tel Aviv by the end of 2005, according to reports.
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QANTAS077
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:21 am

it's a good start, god only knows the healing process has to start somewhere and this is as good as any place to start.
 
UAL747
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:22 am

"Ignore the blatant propaganda such as "Zionist regime"."

It's on the opinion page, what do you expect?

UAL
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BA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:24 am

Those countries mentioned are already ones that do "unofficial" cooperation with Israel.

Israel has what are called "diplomatic offices" in these countries.
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tbar220
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:11 pm

Propoganda? How about anti-semitism.

If the Arabs, and particularly the Persian Gulf littoral states, establish ties with Israel by the end of the current year, the region will experience terrible crises because the Zionist regime plans to dominate the Persian Gulf oil reserves....

... After the Oslo Accords, former Israeli prime minister Shimon Peres put forward a plan, called the New Middle East, that aimed to help Israel establish ties with Persian Gulf Arab states, import their oil products at low prices, and export about 17 billion dollars of Israeli products to those countries annually.

In the initial phase of the plan, Israeli trade offices were opened in Qatar and Oman. And now, the final stage of the dangerous plan is underway.

If such a plan is implemented before Palestine’s destiny is decided, the Zionist regime will take control of regional countries politically and economically and plunder their assets and resources.

Therefore, the establishment of diplomatic ties between Arab states and Israel is one of the treacherous plans within the evil Greater Middle East Initiative, which is meant to make Israel the regional gendarme.

If the current trend of Arab-Israeli relations continues, the prediction of the Arab political analyst, who said that by 2010 no Arab would be able to spend a day without eating an egg imported from Israel, will come true.


***

Unbelievable that this stuff is spewed around, but then again I'm not surprised.
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prosa
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:30 pm

What about the UAE establishing relations with Israel? It seems like a country that values economic pragmatism over ideology.
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BA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:52 pm

Tbar220,

I fail to see how what you posted is anti-Semitic.

I don't see anywhere any kind of expression of hatred towards Jews and other Semites (like us Arabs).

Anti-Zionist? Yes. Zionism is a political ideology.

Prosa,

Unlikely for now because the UAE is one of the biggest contributers to the Palestinian cause and Palestinian aid.

The UAE by nature has always been very Arab nationalistic and is a strong advocate of Arab nationalism and Arab unity.

When Israel recently approached the UAE to open a "diplomatic office," they were quickly rejected.

[Edited 2005-02-15 05:55:26]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
tbar220
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:06 pm

BA,

Are you kidding? They write down "zionism" so that they can get away with blatant attacks on Judaism. Let's look closer...

the Zionist regime plans to dominate the Persian Gulf oil reserves....

This paranoia that the Jews are going to dominate Persian Gulf oil reserves is a classic example of the "Jews are out to control the economy" type thinking that is seen in anti-semitic thought.

And now, the final stage of the dangerous plan is underway.

The writer acts as if there is some sort of evil plan that the Jews have to take over the area and region. It is very similar to a document called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", also very anti-semitic.

The Zionist regime will take control of regional countries politically and economically and plunder their assets and resources.

Read my first comment, applies here as well.

Therefore, the establishment of diplomatic ties between Arab states and Israel is one of the treacherous plans within the evil Greater Middle East Initiative, which is meant to make Israel the regional gendarme.

If the current trend of Arab-Israeli relations continues, the prediction of the Arab political analyst, who said that by 2010 no Arab would be able to spend a day without eating an egg imported from Israel, will come true.


Again, same as above. There is an implied Jewish plot to take over the area and control the economy. This is as anti-semitic as it gets.

***

Do yourself a favor, don't make a fool of yourself over this. I don't throw around the "anti-semitism" card much, but this clearly isn't an "editorial/opinion". It is anti-semitic propoganda at its worst, and it is aimed to spread negative opinions of Jews and Israel. If you cannot see it, you are as blind as those who believe it.
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BA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:23 pm

We're going to have to disagree I'm afraid as usual Tbar220...

Zionism is in reference to the Israeli regime. Not the Jewish religion.

There is a very big difference.

Iran is clearly against Israel, since when is that new?

But is that anti-Semitic? Clearly not...

And I'm afraid you DO throw around the "anti-semitism" card a lot.

Anyone that criticizes Israel, be it Iran or anyone is accused of being anti-Semitic.

To you Iran accusing Israel of trying to dominate the Persian Gulf oil reserves is anti-Semitic when there is absolutely no implications of hatred against Jews or Jewish people anywhere in that press statement.

If you knew something about Iran, you'd know that even though they are an Islamic Republic and a corrupt one, Judaism and Christianity are also officially recognized religions and Iran is still home to MANY Iranian Jews who constantly travel to Iran.

There is absolutely no sign of hatred targetted against a specific race or religion of people anywhere in that article.

Now do is the article pretty silly? Yes. Is it anti-Semitic? No.

So cut the anti-Semitism rhetoric. You're argument is very weak...

I'm off to sleep...

[Edited 2005-02-15 10:25:50]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
johnboy
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:23 pm

I love that egg statement.


To work themselves up by saying Israel will be taking over the oil reserves of the Persian Gulf, and then ending the article by "ominously" predicting that Israel (usually known as the Zionist entity) will corner the egg market (as if somehow that's worse than owning all your oil and natural resources) just strikes me as funny.


 
tbar220
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:57 am

BA,

When you target the Jewish state for unbased criticism and paranoid hatred, and label your target as "zionism", that is anti-semitism. This is not an attack on Zionism, this is not an attack on this so called "zionist regime", it is an attack against Jews. The same thing was done in Europe pre-WWII, Jews were attacked and people were whipped into a paranoid frenzy over the thought that Jews would take over the economy and control the government, etc. etc. You cannot hide blatant anti-semitic thought against Jews as criticism of Zionism. It's not that simple.

What do you have to say about the specific parts of the article I posted? Do you truly believe that Israel is out to control Middle East oil? Do you believe that Israel is trying to control the entire Middle Eastern market and economy? Do you believe that there is some greater evil plan or "Middle Eastern Initiative" that Israel is trying to achieve?

If you believe any of these things, I think you're as foolish as they come.
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CXA330300
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:21 am

The guy who wrote the article is hardly a balanced journalists. I read other articles by him, he blames Israel on EVERYTHING
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777236ER
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:23 am

When you target the Jewish state for unbased criticism and paranoid hatred, and label your target as "zionism", that is anti-semitism

When you attack Jews because they are Jews, that's anti-semitism. When you attack a country that has citizens of many faiths, it's not anti-semitism.
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SFOMEX
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:01 am


Quoting CXA330300 (reply 11):


Quoting CXA330300 (reply 11):
The guy who wrote the article is hardly a balanced journalists. I read other articles by him, he blames Israel on EVERYTHING


I agree. However, remember that he's an editorialist. Have you read the editorial page of the Jerusalem Post? They are full of anti-Arab rhetoric similar to the foolish rhetoric of this Iranian newspaper. I guess every country needs this kind of press.
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L-188
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:23 am

If the current trend of Arab-Israeli relations continues, the prediction of the Arab political analyst, who said that by 2010 no Arab would be able to spend a day without eating an egg imported from Israel, will come true.

 Laugh out loud

Whoever wrote that is seriously cracked, if not scrambled.

Astually one of the great benifits of global trade is the fact that it creates interdependencies between nations, making wars less likely.

If I need you as a trading partner why destroy you?
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tbar220
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting 777236ER (reply 12):
When you attack Jews because they are Jews, that's anti-semitism. When you attack a country that has citizens of many faiths, it's not anti-semitism.


Israel is the Jewish State, there may be other religions, but it is a haven for Jews. You never see Iran or other Arab nations attack Israel because its that "state with many religions". You see them attack Israel because its the Jewish state with the "Zionist propoganda" carried out by the "Zionist regime". Using the term zionism is just an easy way to get away with constant criticism of Jews in Israel using very anti-semitic rhetoric. Take that editorial for example...
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L-188
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:11 pm

You never see Iran or other Arab nations attack Israel because its that "state with many religions". You see them attack Israel because its the Jewish state with the "Zionist propoganda" carried out by the "Zionist regime". Using the term zionism is just an easy way to get away with constant criticism of Jews in Israel using very anti-semitic rhetoric.

Spot on.
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BA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:38 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
When you target the Jewish state for unbased criticism and paranoid hatred, and label your target as "zionism", that is anti-semitism.


No it isn't my friend. Unless the state is being targetted by unbased criticism specifically because they are Jews, THEN that is anti-Semitism.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
This is not an attack on Zionism, this is not an attack on this so called "zionist regime", it is an attack against Jews.


There are absolutely no indications anywhere in the article where it specificially targets Jews or the Jewish religion. Therefore it is not anti-Semitism.

It is targetting the state, the state of Israel, its regime and nothing more.

As long as the comments are not being directed towards Jews specifically for being Jews or the Jewish faith, then it is not anti-Semitism.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
The same thing was done in Europe pre-WWII, Jews were attacked and people were whipped into a paranoid frenzy over the thought that Jews would take over the economy and control the government, etc. etc.


Jews were attacked in WWII in Europe and people were paranoid about the Jews BECAUSE they were Jews! That is anti-Semitism.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
What do you have to say about the specific parts of the article I posted? Do you truly believe that Israel is out to control Middle East oil? Do you believe that Israel is trying to control the entire Middle Eastern market and economy? Do you believe that there is some greater evil plan or "Middle Eastern Initiative" that Israel is trying to achieve?


I really don't know if Israel is out to control the Middle East. It's just like those who argue that the US invaded Iraq to steal its oil. Is that the US' intention? I don't know, I guess time will tell. Perhaps this was the original intention of the US until the Iraqi situation turned out to be more screwed up than they predicted or maybe this never was the intention of the US.

There are people who believe that Syria wants to annex Lebanon. Do I know this is what they want to do? No, I have no solid proof. Maybe that is what they want and maybe not. I just don't know. I don't jump to conclusions.

Anyway, I am not defending the integrity of the article which I do think is silly as it is baseless without backing of any real facts. I am simply stating that it is not anti-Semitic.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
If you believe any of these things, I think you're as foolish as they come.


And I think you are foolish for stating that this article is anti-Semitic.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 15):
Israel is the Jewish State, there may be other religions, but it is a haven for Jews. You never see Iran or other Arab nations attack Israel because its that "state with many religions". You see them attack Israel because its the Jewish state with the "Zionist propoganda" carried out by the "Zionist regime".


They attack Israel because they regard that it is an illegal state founded on Arab land illegally with the help of the British colonialists which led to the expulsion of 800,000 Arabs into neighboring Arab lands.

That's why they attack Israel. They don't attack Israel for being Jewish or because the people are Jewish.

It's simple. It is regarded as an illegal state and that is why it is not recognized by the Arab governments.

Again, not anti-Semitic.

Israel could be a founded by Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahai, Zoroastrianists, or Satanists and it would be no different.

It would still be regarded as a state illegally founded on Arab land by foriegn immigrants, most of whom came from Europe.

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 15):
Using the term zionism is just an easy way to get away with constant criticism of Jews in Israel using very anti-semitic rhetoric. Take that editorial for example...


Do you have proof or solid evidence that this criticism is directed towards Jews and they are simply trying to cover it up by calling it Zionism?

Until you have solid proof that this is the intention, then I consider your argument invalid.

And no, I don't believe in mind readers, so I won't by that argument if you say that you read the editorialist's mind.  Insane

[Edited 2005-02-16 04:44:24]
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tbar220
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting BA (reply 17):

Jews were attacked in WWII in Europe and people were paranoid about the Jews BECAUSE they were Jews! That is anti-Semitism.


Wow, you should study your history.
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BA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (reply 18):
Wow, you should study your history.


LOL, I know my WWII history very well Tbar220...

Are you suddenly changing your mind by saying Jews were not persecuted and killed by Nazi Germany during WWII (and before)?

Yes, the Jews were very successful in Europe and that is why many were jealous of their success and that is why they were persecuted.

However, the persecution was carried out specifically against Jews. It was not carried out against successful people.

The successful "supreme Aryan race" as Hitler called them were not persecuted.

It was the Jews and many minorities and anyone who did not fit into the definition of the "Aryan race" by the Nazis.

You yourself said this was the situation, why are you suddenly refuting it?
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dl021
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:03 pm

Reading this article reinforces the opinion I hold about whether Iran should be allowed to develop nuclear weapons unfettered by anyone.

There is an unreasoning fear on the parts of some Arabs and Islamic groups in the region (not all the Islamic nations are Arab).

"During this period, the Zionist regime has massacred thousands of innocent Palestinians."

this quote from the article is unsubstantiated but it serves to inflame the passions of readers who will not get another perspective on the issue, and furthers the writers efforts to make peace in the area a more remote possibility by calling it a reward for the Israelis only.

Peace will benefit everyone in the region except for the terrorists and the anti-democratic fundamentalist leaders that seek to rule under Sharia.
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N1120A
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:32 pm

>Ignore the blatant propaganda such as "Zionist regime"<

Um, that is how Israeli Nationalists refer to themselves, so I don't see how that is blatant propaganda.

BTW, anti-semitism works both ways, and the Israeli government can be seen as anti-semetic as anyone.

>Peace will benefit everyone in the region except for the terrorists and the anti-democratic fundamentalist leaders that seek to rule under Sharia.<

Which violates the Koran and is not valid in Islam. What about the terrorists sponsored by Israel?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:44 pm

Out of curiousity... why Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem?
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rjpieces
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:54 pm

Out of curiousity... why Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem?

Arab countries aren't about to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel! Although it's very likely that the US Embassy will finally be moved to Jerusalem at some point in the next 4 years.....Heck, Arabs setting up shop in Tel Aviv is a good enough first step in my opinion.
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dl021
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting N1120A (reply 21):
Which violates the Koran and is not valid in Islam. What about the terrorists sponsored by Israel?


What violates the Koran?

Which terrorists are sponsored by Israel?

Any terrorists will lose out on peace.
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N1120A
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:24 pm

>Out of curiousity... why Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem?<

Actually, Israel has 2 capitals. There is the temporal capital at Jerusalem and the administrative and business capital at Tel Aviv/Jaffa. Most embassies are in TLV because it is the business center and much better connected.

>What violates the Koran?<

The Sharya

>Which terrorists are sponsored by Israel?<

The JDL, Campus Watch, parts of Mossad, the various groups that stole nuclear weapons technology from the US and Europe, those that stole the Mirage plans to build the Kefir, various former prime ministers who are still wanted by western governments, and more
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Superfly
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:46 pm

Israeli Foreign Minister Sylvan Shalom has announced that at least 10 Arab embassies will be established in Tel Aviv by the yearend. Qatar, Oman, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, and occupied Palestine are to send ambassadors to Tel Aviv by the end of 2005, according to reports.






Great news!
So does this mean we don't have to send them anymore money?

I won't hold my breath on this one.
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dl021
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:48 am

Tell me which Israeli PM, aside from Begin who was in the Hagana and participated in the bombing of the King David Hotel but also made peace with Egypt, was a terrorist.

Dassault and French intelligence participated in the "theft" of the Mirage III plans after the French government allowed themselves to be coerced into halting delivery of the aircraft. That was a completely Machiavellian effort.

Mossad is the intelligence agency for Israel. Is a French flagged poster going to start casting aspersions against another countries security apparatus? Rainbow Warrior ringing any bells?

Serious question here. Please tell me how the Koran and Sharia are not compatible. This is a question not a challenge.

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Falcon84
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:01 am

Reading the support for the terrorists and nutjob regimes like Syria and Iran tha exists on here among the "moderate" Arab members of this site, it will be a cold day in hell before any more Arab nations recognize Israel.

Why recognize that which you want to destroy? Even our "moderate" members from the Arab world on here still can't let go of their want for Israel, and it's people simply to be annihilated.
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:12 pm

Quoting BA (reply 17):
Quoting Tbar220 (reply 10):
When you target the Jewish state for unbased criticism and paranoid hatred, and label your target as "zionism", that is anti-semitism.


No it isn't my friend. Unless the state is being targetted by unbased criticism specifically because they are Jews, THEN that is anti-Semitism.


Tbar220, BA is ABSOLUTELY right. When Israel is attacking Palestinians, the Central Council of Jews in Germany says "This are not the Jews, this is a matter of Israel" - and when you critizise Israel, you are Antisemit.
As long as there is Critics against Israel, this has nothing to do with Anti-Semitism.
When people say: Jews shall be drown in the sea, this is Anti-Semitism. And when an Israelian Tourism Minister (executed in Tel Aviv Hilton) says: Arabs shall be drown in the sea, how you call that?

It's poor only to know Anti-Americanism and Anti-Semitism, what about Anti-Arabism f.e.?
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:47 pm

Quoting DL021 (reply 27):
Tell me which Israeli PM, aside from Begin who was in the Hagana and participated in the bombing of the King David Hotel but also made peace with Egypt, was a terrorist



True that he is an official terrorist. I believe that N wanted to put it that numerous Israeli leaders have been involved in unjustified and illegal killngs, a reason why that asshole Ariel Sharon is war criminal.

"Sharon's history offers a monochromatic record of moral corruption, with a documented record of war crimes going back to the early 1950s. He was born in 1928 and as a young man joined the Haganah, the underground military organization of Israel in its pre-state days. In 1953 he
was given command of Unit 101, whose mission is often described as that of retaliation against Arab attacks on Jewish villages. In fact, as can be seen from two terrible onslaughts, one of them very well known, Unit 101's purpose was that of instilling terror by the infliction of discriminate, murderous violence not only on able bodied fighters but on the young, the old, the helpless.

Sharon's first documented sortie in this role was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of the 101 unit records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons"."

http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon.html

And interesting comparisson can be found here:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/may2002/isra-m02.shtml
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ly7e7
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:49 pm

#12,
The point that BA fails to see (and always will) is that claims of Israel overpowering economically the middle eastern regimes and becoming a ruler of the region controlling everything from the oil to the eggs is just a new way to say that the Jews are trying to control the world. Just a paraphrase to Mein Kampf.

The late minister Ze'evi was assassinated in Jerusalem , and not in Tel Aviv. (Yes he was an extremist and I didn't cry when he was shot.)

Quoting N1120A (reply 25):
The JDL, Campus Watch, parts of Mossad, the various groups that stole nuclear weapons technology from the US and Europe, those that stole the Mirage plans to build the Kefir, various former prime ministers who are still wanted by western governments, and more


JDL is NOT sponsored by Israel , simply because the Israeli version of this organization was outlawed in Israel. (maybe you should learn to do the same with NPD).
WTF is Campus Watch and what terrorist activities do they indulge in? Parts of Mossad ? Which ones? Doing what? Nukes? The reactor in Dimona was built by your government. Kfir? Dassault arranged everything. The plane is not in any sort of operational use in IAF anyway since it is so outdated Various PMs? Even Sharon is no longer that. Your post is full of sh*t.

Begin was not in Haganah but in Etsel,which unlike the Hagana used terror as a weapon.

Now almost all of the posts in this thread have nothing to do with the subject (including mine), so I've just suggested a lot of deletions.
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:02 pm

@Aschermittwoch: I know why you are on my Respected User List  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

And yes, sorry, LY, it was Jerusalem. He was an extreme right wing man, and as much as I know there are still some of his style in the Knesseth. In my opinion these guys are also responsible for what happens in Palestine.
They are part of the assholes (like the militant part of the Hammas etc) who still let hate grow on both sides.

Assassinated? I prefer the wording the Israelian government uses when they are killing Palestinians: the "terrorists" just executed a man who planted hate and was supporting Anti-Arabism.
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting LY7E7 (reply 31):
JDL is NOT sponsored by Israel , simply because the Israeli version of this organization was outlawed in Israel. (maybe you should learn to do the same with NPD).


Interesting, but I fail to see the connection with some American sporting a French flag stating what you quoted and Germany outlawing the NPD. Care to elaborate?
While it would be good if that happened, but not forgetting the whole sate of Sachsen, they are far from a terrorist group (at the moment).
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ly7e7
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Ushermittwoch (reply 33):
with some American sporting a French flag stating what you quoted and Germany outlawing the NPD



I was not aware of him being an American. My post was quite general , but since you are all European citizens what exactly seems to be the problem with that?

Quoting Ushermittwoch (reply 33):
but not forgetting the whole sate of Sachsen, they are far from a terrorist group


So is Israel.
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting LY7E7 (reply 34):
Quoting Ushermittwoch (reply 33):
but not forgetting the whole sate of Sachsen, they are far from a terrorist group


So is Israel.


It depends on the eye of the viewer - Palestinians would highly disagree, LY.
So we are talking about Arabic countries who accept Israel ... when do we talk about Israel accepting a Palestinian Country?
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ly7e7
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 35):
... when do we talk about Israel accepting a Palestinian Country?


You haven't watched news/read papers for a long time, have you? Just don't expect it to appear over night.

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 35):
Palestinians would highly disagree

I am not a one,are you? You and I could also disagree on the matters of inner Sachsen politics, couldn't we? (BTW, my wild guess is that what goes well for Sachsen can't fail Brandenburg or Mecklenburg-Vorpommern)
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting LY7E7 (reply 36):
You and I could also disagree on the matters of inner Sachsen politics, couldn't we?


LY, unfortunatelly we have ultra right wing in Sachsen - on the other hand ultra right wing are governing other countries like yours and the US.
And I think it's much more dangerous having an ultra right wing government than opposition on a federal state.

Ah, the Palestinians want their country over night? I thought they want to have it since ages. It's occupied and stolen land, you know it. Just wondering what the settlers will do when they have to give back what they and the Israelian government have stolen (also the water they deny the Palestinians). As long as this injustice exists, you needn't wonder how Arabic countries react.
And will the brave Israelian soldiers also shoot from their tanks when the settlers will throw stones - like the soldiers did to Palestinian children?

[Edited 2005-02-19 18:33:04]
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ly7e7
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:41 am

#12

The "ultra-right" that governs Israel is orchestrating the first ever pull out of an occupied Palestinian land. Get your political knowledge straight before entering a discussion. Now I am not a Likud supporter, yet it is the only political body in Israel that had ever exchanged territories for peace ,starting from Egypt. You don't even know who are the Israeli ultra-rights for Christ's sake. Same goes for the US. Calling the Republican party ultra right is nothing but a joke.


Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 37):
? I thought they want to have it since ages


True. They wanted the entire land from the Jordan river to the sea. When they are settled for their part that they denied in 1948 (and thus getting themselves into 1967 borders) they right should be granted. Care to elaborate about water? Why didn't you also mention the air?

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 37):
you needn't wonder how Arabic countries react


Who said I do?
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:52 am

Of course the US republicans are ultra right wing for me. The democrats are everything but politically left.

Israel gave land back to other countries, yes. But they still occupying other people's land.

Sharon started 2nd Intifada by putting his fat ass onto the tempel mountain. And giving back stolen land is just a duty, not a good will. On the other hand what about the settlements in West Jordan?

You know about the water: water is re-routed to settlements , so that Palestinians didn't have enough water for themselves, animals and for farming.
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ly7e7
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:53 am

#12

Somehow I was absolutely sure that if I look into your profile I'd find a rather different age group.

You were comparing the NPD to the Likud and the republican party. Now if that is your opinion it proves your complete and utter ignorance in world's politics.

Your arguments has nothing to do with the political discussion here. Nobody is denying Palestinians of their state here. My opinion is well known in this forum and I won't bother to bring it again. Learn to use a search engine.

Sharon's visit to the mountain was absolutely legitimate as for any other Jew. The place is sacred for more than one religion and everybody should granted a free access, whether you happen to like it or not. The cause for uprising was of course the occupation itself, the visit was just a cheap excuse.

All comes in good time and if the Palestinians will act peacefully upon getting control of the GS and parts of the West Bank they will get all other lands within the borders of '67pretty soon, since the main opponents of the pull-back in Israel will loose all validity of their claims.

West Jordan? Are you sure of the term? Learn the issue you are trying to talk about. Or someone in Amman might get p*ssed off.
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TS-IOR
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:51 pm

I hope Tunisia won't do it. It is better to wait and see...
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11Bravo
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting LY7E7 (reply 40):
All comes in good time and if the Palestinians will act peacefully upon getting control of the GS and parts of the West Bank they will get all other lands within the borders of '67pretty soon, since the main opponents of the pull-back in Israel will loose all validity of their claims.


Well said LY7E7.

If the Palestinian leadership can really stop the attacks on Israel, I think internal and international pressure, including from the US, would be overwhelming. Stopping the violence would give the Palestinians the moral high-ground in this conflict. I don’t see how Israel could hold on to any of the West Bank settlements if the Palestinians really stopped all the attacks. The formula seems simple to me.

1. Stop all violence, and you will get what you want.
2. Continue the violence, and you get nothing.
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rjpieces
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:10 am

The formula seems simple to me.

It seems simple to all of us, except the Palestinians. Really weird to think that the people who would benefit most from it are so blind to see it.
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NoUFO
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:13 am

> I hope Tunisia won't do it. It is better to wait and see...

Wait for what to come?
Could you name one good reason not to recognize Israel?
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NoUFO
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 39):
But they still occupying other people's land.


That's a bit more difficult than you may think. I'm certainly not a fan of of how settlements were handled, but I don't think of blaming Israel for "occupying" (or how ever you may call it) the Golan Heights.

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 39):
Sharon started 2nd Intifada by putting his fat ass onto the tempel mountain.


While I think he should not have done it, he has every right to visit the Temple Mountain, and Palestinians just had to stand it instead of starting a new wave of violence against Israeli civilians.
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:01 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (reply 42):
1. Stop all violence, and you will get what you want.
2. Continue the violence, and you get nothing.


11bravo, there was no violence for long time before 2nd intifada and Palestinians didn't get anything. Their biggest hope, Izaak Rabin, had been murdered from an Israeli.

Quoting NoUFO (reply 45):
That's a bit more difficult than you may think. I'm certainly not a fan of of how settlements were handled, but I don't think of blaming Israel for "occupying" (or how ever you may call it) the Golan Heights.


NoUfo, so how would you call that when there are people on your land and don't disappear?

Quoting NoUFO (reply 45):
he has every right to visit the Temple Mountain, and Palestinians just had to stand it instead of starting a new wave of violence against Israeli civilians.

Sharon's temple mountain visit was just a provocation, no other reason than provocation and winning an election. When there is no hope for people, they start being rebellion. When civilians die, it's awfull but don't count dead people on 1 site only.
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11Bravo
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (reply 46):
11bravo, there was no violence for long time before 2nd intifada and Palestinians didn't get anything.


That statement is just flat-out wrong NumberTwelve and I suspect you know that. Prior to the Second Intifada there was a constant dribble of attacks against Israeli civilians and retaliation by IDF. The frequency of those attacks was nothing like the levels we saw once the Second Intifada started, but nonetheless there were bombings, mortar attacks, rocket attacks, and shootings. In 1999, there were 13 Israeli civilians killed and another 61 wounded. That is not, as you suggest, “no violence”.

As for what the Palestinians got in return for the reduced level of violence prior to the Second Intifada; they got the Wye River agreement. Arafat’s refusal to sign that deal at the last second will go down in history as one of the most foolish choices ever made. He had an opportunity to permanently change the dynamic and outcome of this conflict and he didn’t do it. It’s probably the most irresponsible thing I’ve ever seen from a statesman.
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EurostarVA
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RE: Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon

Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:39 pm

Hear me out people,

This '10 countries to make peace with Israel' is wishful thinking on the part of Mr. Shalom. There won't be any Arab countries rushing to normalize relations with Israel until the former moves forward with final status negotiations which it clearly wants to delay and delay while grabbing more and more land.

Arabs should not make the same mistake in the past in granting diplomatic relations until Israel proves it is TRUELY willing to give up occupied land in return for peace. The steps taken in Gaza and the Northern West Bank are just a beginning on the right path (and not a 'traumatic and difficult' move as Sharon put it), but a second and more comprehensive 'disengagement' is expected before Palestinians feel that Israel is truely willing to give up most of the West Bank to establish a viable, continguous and democratic Palestinian state. In return, Palestinians will do their utmost in proceeding with much needed reform and boosting security on both sides of the Green Line.

I truely hope that secret negotiations are taking place to discuss the second, wider disengagement plan as the media has claimed.
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