Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:23 pm

Trek And Bond Bad Guys The Same?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:09 am

I think what is possibly killing Star Trek and the Bond series is they are straying from what made them good in the first place. Intellectual galactic problem solving combined with well planned space battles for ST. Bond needs to return to some of its spy movie roots. For one thing the villains have been the same. Evil villain tries to take over/conquer/destroy something...Enterprise/Bond Foils attempt...Evil madman resorts to last ditch effort. Its too bad, those villains could have been so much better. Shinzon from Nemesis started out great, and they could have done so much more with him, but they just turned him into the same mad man. And what strikes me funny is that they have created brilliant villains in the past. Weyoun, Dukat, The Female Shapeshifter/founder were all great villains in the DS9 series. Khan and the Borg Queen were good villains because they were more tied to trek history.

Oh well, I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that the ST folks tried to market the movies to both the action movie audiences and the trekkies together, resulting in a poor movie for both. They seem to have got away from what made people want to become trekkies. I guess it was no secret that Berman and Roddenberry constantly disagreed with each other. Too bad Roddenberry had no chance to get rid of him when he was still alive.
God was my copilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him...
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RE: Trek And Bond Bad Guys The Same?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:35 am

Paramount should promote Jonathan Frakes to head up their Star Trek effort, now that Straczynski is busy.

Manny Coto and Ron Moore are two other major figures, together with the sadly overlooked Ira Behr.

My money would go to Frakes who at least has fresh enthusiasm and ability to imagine. Gene's legacy was bungled by Berman, which can be seen from the way Roddenberry still influenced TNG and DS9. From then it went downhill with Voyager and Enterprise early seasons. Both were Berman creations and both lacked vision. DS9 was an extension of Roddenberry's "caravan in space" idea and the producers/writers from that show were ignored by Berman.

The Nemesis book reads very differently from the story of the film. It's actually quite good. The film was badly scripted (Berman again) and atrociously edited, which is why it was a turkey. In the book Shinzon is a much more complex and properly developed character, and Picard much more profound (as Roddenberry originally drew the character).
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
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RE: Trek And Bond Bad Guys The Same?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:01 am

I thought the last Bond film was complete rubbish (and I am a James Bond fan).
The plot was ludicrous (the part with the plane, and the cloaked car- COME ON!) and it was a real travesty of the orginal Bond idea!
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