F9Animal
Topic Author
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Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:11 am

Gotta love it! Who is getting filthy rich, and laughing all the way to the bank right now? I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff. Do these people want the airline industry to fail? Do they realize the pain it is doing to so many?


I don't want to start a flame war here, but I am dying to ask our a.netters in other countries what the Middle Eastern Airlines are paying for fuel? And what are they paying at the pump for their vehicles? I think it would be interesting to see if they are getting stung as hard.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
AngelAirways
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:25 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff.


Maybe you should get yourself a more fuel efficient car  Smile


Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
what the Middle Eastern Airlines are paying for fuel?


50% of what they spend is spent abroad at airports like LHR, HKG, SYD, KUL etc and the 50% spent at home, believe me, is not much too different. The Middle Eastern countries may be producing large amounts of oil but they do not sell it cheap at home.

Also, the countries hosting Emirates, Etihad, Gulf Air, and Qatar Airways have very little oil in themselves (that's why they are trying to diversify their economy towards other ventures such as airlines).
 
art
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
Who is getting filthy rich, and laughing all the way to the bank right now?


Have you noticed that in the last month Exxon has become the most valuable corporation in the States? Or that BP posted the largest UK corporate profit in history?
 
egnr
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff


You're sick of it? In the UK, what we pay for standard unleaded (77.9 pence per litre) works out to about $6.14 per US gallon at current £/$ exchange rates... I have to pay even more (84.9 pence per litre) as my car is designed to run on high octane fuel.

In the UK, it's the government getting rich and laughing all the way to the bank - the level of tax on it in the UK is extremely high.

In contrast, aviation fuel is heavily subsidised (last I heard was it's about $1/50 a gallon - is this correct?). If one airline can't survive even with such heavily subsidised fuel, but others can, then it suggests the airline has deeper problems than just the fuel prices...
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
NUAir
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:51 am

umm its not a renewable resource so the more we use the less their is and the higher the prices will go.

Oil prices will always trend upwards which is why companies like BP and ExxonMobil are making billions, because they were smart enough to invest like crazy into it decades ago.

As far as the middle eastern airlines making out like bandits the middle east region is actually a net importers of jet fuel. Just because they have the crude doesn't mean they have the refining capacity to process it.

I work for the oil companies yet I bike to work for the exercise and to cut down on transportation costs. It always amazes me that people flip out about the price for a gallon of gasoline (a non-renewable resource) and go into the store and pay more for a bottle of water (a very abundant resource).

Stop complaining and take the local bus that runs on natural gas.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff.


Bitch bitch bitch... everything in liquid form is more expensive than gasoline short of public water.

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
Do these people want the airline industry to fail? Do they realize the pain it is doing to so many?


Welcome to capitalism 101
 
petertenthije
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 0):
And what are they paying at the pump for their vehicles?


In the Netherlands around 1,25* euro per litre standard petrol (euro 95).
In Germany around 1,10 euro per litre standard petrol (super). Seen myself last weekend in Frankfurt.


Converted (1 litre = 0.264 gallon and 1 euro = 1.325 dollar**)
In the Netherlands one gallon costs around 6,274 US Dollar.
In Germany one gallon costs around 5,520 US Dollar.


I've also looked up the average gasoline price in the US which is now around 1,905*** US Dollar. On behalf of all Europeans I'd like to ask you to stop complaining, you got a long way to go before it gets really bad!  Acting devilish


* http://www.nu.nl/news/485012/30/Shell_verlaagt_benzineprijzen.html
** http://www.xe.com/ucc/
***http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
Attamottamotta!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting Petertenthije (reply 6):
On behalf of all Europeans I'd like to ask you to stop complaining, you got a long way to go before it gets really bad!


On behalf of all Americans, I'd hope you recognize that we live in completly different enviornments... so a pissing fight over how much you pay for gas is meaningless  Big grin

Many Europeans live in a highly dense area with viable alternatives to driving a car. Paris has 380 subway stops, all of Texas has maybe 50. Many parts of the country lack the density for high-speed rail, ect. I would love to not own a car period (because insurance for a 22 year-old BLOWS), but it simply isn't practical.

Believe me... I tried commuting by bike for a month  Wow!
 
ACAfan
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:23 am

Average gasoline tax in the United States is $0.42

What is the tax on jet fuel worldwide and in the states?
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
ozglobal
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:25 am

A question for our American coleagues:

I lived in the US as a kid in the 70's during the so called 'Energy Crisis' brought about by the Arab oil embaro. The US was crippled by it's huge dependence on imported oil and the block of supply by OPEC. There were mile long queues at the petrol stations. In Washington DC, freeways into town were restricted to car pooling (3 persons per car) and everyone started buying what they called 'campact' cars. Compared to the 7litre v8 we and others had, anything was compact. The awareness of energy consumption was very strong for a number of years and the media was full of ideas on reducing consumption.
What happened next?! Why did everyone revert to bigger cars, power bills and an SUV per family? Surely, it's in the local national security interest (and the climate's) for the US to reduce dependency on foreign oil?

Any thoughts?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:32 am

Whereas the current high prices may be attributed to exceptional circumstances like the war in Iraq or other destabilizing (mis)happenings around the globe, it is an indisputable fact that over the coming decade, oil prices will rise to much higher levels than what we are currently used to, mainly because of the ever growing demand, not only from developed nations in Europe and North America, but more importantly also from developing nations like India, China and Southeast Asia with their billions of inhabitants, whereas the natural resources are limited, both in overall quantity as well as production capacity.

China for instance is an emerging industrial world power and will thus slowly but steadily start to guzzle equal amounts of oil as do the United States at present, or did you really believe those 60 787s (plus all the other planes they've ordered recently) are just an isolated fact? They are proof of the growing mobility within China and Asia as a whole, mobility not only by air, but also by car! Every Chinese (more than 1 BILLION of them!!!) now has a bike, yet only a few million of them already have a car; over the next decade it is estimated more than 300 million newly registered cars will be driving in the streets of China alone.... and guess what, they'll all be running on gasoline!

Maybe it's time to get more environmentally friendly and in the mean time also less fuel consuming cars in the US too, or is that just something for 'euro-whining lefties' and will Americans always feel the unrestrainable need to drive around in oversized cars guzzling 10 gallons per 100 miles or more? It would certainly do your wallet, the world economy and the global climate a favour if a change in mentality would take place!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:43 am

I did not intend on this post becoming a USA against XXX fill in the blanks. I was just letting off steam about the insane crude prices. I also wanted to know if the Middle Eastern Airlines of the world were paying less. I just know that my billfold is starting to hurt when I stop at the pump. I would love to take the bus, but the bus prices are starting to become outrageous. Can't win for lose here!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Vikingair
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:43 am

Nice piece of writing "Sabenapilot", I could not have said it better myself....
 
F9Animal
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:46 am

I understand that G.B. is an oil tycoon himself. You would think....... Oh wait, think!!! Does he do that?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:51 am

Wish they could invent a passenger jet that could fly on blue juice!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ceo@afg
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:58 am

Norwegian gas/petrol prices are also pretty high at the moment, drove past a gas station on my way home, and it is NOK 10.23 per litre. If you convert the NOK to USD and convert to gallon, the price is USD6.20 per gallon.

From friends in the states I've been hearing that smaller cars are starting to come into fashion again, as soon as regular unleaded prices rise above $2.00 per gallon, people really take notice.

It is very depressing to see that Seattle with it's 1million + population are still debating on how/when to build the extension to the monorail, even the small task of extending the line to SEA/TAC is dragging on for ever, no wonder the Americans need their cars, beyond New York, there's really none of the other major US cities with a good mass transportation system for the public.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
 
brons2
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:09 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (reply 10):
Maybe it's time to get more environmentally friendly and in the mean time also less fuel consuming cars in the US too, or is that just something for 'euro-whining lefties' and will Americans always feel the unrestrainable need to drive around in oversized cars guzzling 10 gallons per 100 miles or more? It would certainly do your wallet, the world economy and the global climate a favour if a change in mentality would take place!


I wish I could buy a more fuel efficient vehicle, that would actually fit my extremely tall dimensions. Small diesels like in Europe just aren't sold here though, other than VW ironically. Other than VW, you can only get diesels in large pickups and then they only do marginally better than their gasoline counterparts. I have enjoyed the ones I have driven over there in Europe, the new direct injection turbodiesels are much better than the older diesels used to be; they have real usable power bands and they get great mileage of course.

In the meantime, I try to keep my speed around 130kmh on the freeway and that seems to yield around 20 miles per gallon in my pickup.

We now return you to your normally scheduled aviation forum Big grin
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
moman
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 9):
What happened next?! Why did everyone revert to bigger cars, power bills and an SUV per family? Surely, it's in the local national security interest (and the climate's) for the US to reduce dependency on foreign oil?


That's exactly what happened. Here in the U.S. the average person has a hard time remembering the news from a month ago, let alone 30 years ago. The news media has a way of hyping a story to the Nth level and moving on to something else when people bore of the earlier story. Last spring when fuel prices first hit $2 a gallon, people were screaming bloody murder and everyone was going to buy the Toyota hybrid car. Two months later the news headlines are "record SUV and truck sales". Now the gas prices are inching towards $2 again and there is no media coverage.

I'm disappointed that our gov't hasn't taken ANY useful actions to prevent a reoccurence of the '73 oil embargo. Small things might help, including a gas guzzler tax of at least $3,000 on any car that gets less than 15 mpg combined driving, or more of a carrot approach in giving people who buy fuel efficient cars a $5,000 tax break. News media reports it would take gas of at least $3-3.50/gal to get people to trade to fuel efficient cars; I suspect it would be more along the lines of $3.50-4 as people are so concerned with so called "status symbols".

Highways are more crowded too because everyone thinks they need a Suburban to drive 1 person to work. I can't remember the last time I saw a large SUV with more than 1 person in it.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
57AZ
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:15 am

You can thank the general focus on the individual than society as a whole for that. Back when the New York subways were being built, every major city in the US had efficient mass transportation. The Los Angeles basin was home to the largest urban mass transportation system in the United States. That system was Southern Pacific's famous Pacific Electric Railway. At it's height, the PE made up 10 percent of the total interurban railway operations in the United States, with a mainline totaling 1000+ route miles. While they did provide local trolley service, they also provided carload, less than carload and US Mail service. They had steeplejack electric motors, box motors and diesel electric switchers as well as combine and Railway Post Office cars. Top speeds could be as high as 70 mph on longer, intercity routes. They just had to screw things up by allowing the PE to be shut down and replaced with the interstates and they are worse off for it.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
moman
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:19 am

57AZ,

I want to add that our favorite subject on this board, the airlines , have no interest in allowing a national rail system to develop. They fight it tooth and nail. I think efficient & cost effective high speed rail would put a serious dent in many short haul routes (northeast corridor, Florida, west coast).

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
sendMEtoLAS
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:31 am

Americans need their cars, beyond New York, there's really none of the other major US cities with a good mass transportation system for the public.

Don't forget about Chicago. Although the L routes are not as extensive as the NYC subway system, Chicago's L and city buses can get you where you need to go for cheap. And their public transit system is very easy to navigate vs NYC.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:35 am

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 9):
What happened next?! Why did everyone revert to bigger cars, power bills and an SUV per family?


Pretty much, that and the fact that "compact" cars now pack more horsepower than a sports car from days gone by. Any engine is a balance between economy and performance, but since gas has been relativly cheap state-side, performance has taken the priority.

Engines of 2005 have simmilar fuel consumption from 1995, but they churn out more power with the same fuel and produce less emissions.

Quoting MoMan (reply 19):
I want to add that our favorite subject on this board, the airlines , have no interest in allowing a national rail system to develop. They fight it tooth and nail.


Southwest sure as hell did  Big grin

I hardly blame the collapse of the Texas HSR on WN alone, there was never critical mass for that project, but it remains to be seen how they react to the Trans-Texas Corridor which will see the light of day.

Quoting Brons2 (reply 16):
I wish I could buy a more fuel efficient vehicle, that would actually fit my extremely tall dimensions. Small diesels like in Europe just aren't sold here though, other than VW ironically


Bit of irony regarding the Volkswagon TDI: it has great economy, but until low-sulfur desiel hits the market in 2006, there are many gasoline cars that produce less emissions.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting 57AZ (reply 18):
The Los Angeles basin was home to the largest urban mass transportation system in the United States. That system was Southern Pacific's famous Pacific Electric Railway.


I have heard from several sources, including a tv documentary, that the US automobile manufacturers had a direct political influence in getting LA's public transport shut down in the first half of the 20th century.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:41 am

**""What happened next?! Why did everyone revert to bigger cars, power bills and an SUV per family? Surely, it's in the local national security interest (and the climate's) for the US to reduce dependency on foreign oil?""**

Hey it costs me $40 to fill my truck every week, but oh well I fill my gas. Yeah it was nice when I bought the truck the gas was $0.95 a gallon back then, and i could have gotten a new little hippy car that gets me 50 miles per gallon, but I didn't. I would rather drive a truck than some little hippy car because a truck is more comfortable and in my opinion every little environmental car I have seen so far is uglier than shit and looks like even a midget would feel clausterphobic in it.

There is nothing we can do about it. No matter how much we bitch and moan, it won't drop fuel prices. Lets just hope an alternate fuel source comes around that can still run a vehicle at 300-400 horse power.
 
brons2
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting 57AZ (reply 18):
You can thank the general focus on the individual than society as a whole for that


Exactly, the general mentality in the US is that, "hey if I can afford the gas for my big guzzler, then who cares what anyone else thinks."
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
co7772wuh
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:15 am

One of the main reasons oil prices have gone through the roof is dune to the rise in demand fron China and even India . Just a few years ago China was like the 6th or 7th importer of oil . Now , China is # 2 right behind the US . Economic growth in China is incredible .

I have been to China 3 times in the passed 9 months . Let my tell you , we have it really good here in the US .

Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting F9Animal (reply 13):
I understand that G.B. is an oil tycoon himself. You would think....... Oh wait, think!!! Does he do that?


No offense intended, but everyone is pointing out how other nations pay more for fuel, that China, India, etc. are consuming more exponentially, and that the US populace is bad for being self-centered and non-conserving, but the best you can do is bash the President in a knee-jerk fashion to cause even more flaming. Well, which is it - the prez, the Chinese, the Indians, the Americans? According to you, in a world of 6 Billion or whatever, with all the dynamics listed above, some "idiot" from Texas is driving the price of a friggin' gallon of gas.

I tell you, it is so predictable on here...

-Dave
-Dave
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:03 pm

ACAFAN...the ave tax is more then 42 cents. Thats the state tax in Michigan. then theres the federal tax and dont forget the sales tax and in some states you have county tax and city tax. The price of a gallon of gas from the refinery is around 1 05 to 1 15.
What the hell is OPEC doing with all this money? Ten million barrells a day at fifty bucks a barrell? No wonder the airlines are going in the tank.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:05 pm

Doesnt Emirates get free fuel in Dubai, and the EU is angry about that and supposedly thinking about sanctions against EK?
 
bennett123
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:17 pm

Two questions spring to mind;

1. How long will the petrol last?.

2. How will you power your vehicules when it happens?.

Brons2 could be right, people will keep guzzling until the lights go out.
 
citjet
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:26 pm

Oh you poor Europeans. Your governments need to be giving you your guns, money(enormous taxes), fuel, and other rights BACK. I love Europe, but man o man, Im staying right here where everything is still relatively normal.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:27 pm

Here's a question for you:

When was the last time a new oil refinery opened up in the lower 48 states?

If you can't think of who opened it and when, join the crowd! And why would one open up? Do you think the oil companies want that to happen? It's the one thing oil companies and environmental groups agree on: the more that open up, the greater risk to the environment, and the greater supply of refined gasoline that is made available, lowering the price. My Dad was telling me that during the 70's the Royal Dutch Shell Oil Company manipulated the markets and supply, forcing the high prices. And if they did it, certainly other companies participated as well.

The airline industry is equally to blame for the disappearance of mass-transit. Their lobbyists have continually squashed attempts to improve the rail system and short-distance high speed rail (like NYC-DC, PDX-SEA, etc. etc.) and the LCC's today would be just as opposed. Result? Look at the state of Amtrak!

Personally, I am laughing my way to the bank. Fortunately, my company pays for my commuter bus pass (which incidentally have cut back on routes and changed to smaller busses, not only due to fuel costs, but because of low-ridership) from Everett to downtown Seattle and back each day, which is about 20 miles. As a result, I save on gas, it's one less car on I-5 every day, etc. I would encourage others to do the same, but one thing I continually see is that few people want to give up their beloved car and ride a bus.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
moman
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (reply 29):
Brons2 could be right, people will keep guzzling until the lights go out.


This is exactly what will happen. As fuel supplies diminish, the US gov't will pump billions of dollars each year into developing alternative energy sources. I doubt there will be any major progress until there is a crisis and this country is in a horrible recession. (hopefully won't happen in the next 100 years!). Every time scientists say oil output is declining a new way to extract more is discovered. Someday the cry of "wolf" will be legit.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
ACAfan
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (reply 27):
ACAFAN...the ave tax is more then 42 cents. Thats the state tax in Michigan. then theres the federal tax and dont forget the sales tax and in some states you have county tax and city tax. The price of a gallon of gas from the refinery is around 1 05 to 1 15.


1. Source for state gas taxes: http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/st...stics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.html

2. I believe the western governments (especially the european governments) make MORE money from oil than the producer nations.

3. OPEC produces 41% of all crude oil and 15% of all natural gas produced in the world.

4. Even if the WORLD's average oil price is $50 per barrel, the OPEC price is $43.12. See for yourselves at http://www.opec.org

5. 'Whenever the prices of oil products such as gasoline (petrol),
diesel or heating oil rise, OPEC is usually made the scapegoat
by some sections of the media, politicians and the general public.
“OPEC must raise output,” the cry goes up. This is based on the
incorrect assumption that the Organization is responsible for high
product prices. The point has been made many times before,
but it is worth repeating: OPEC is NOT directly responsible for
high gasoline or heating oil prices. The following analysis produced
in September 2001, shows why:'

http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2001.pdf
http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/WhoGetsWhat/2000.pdf
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
ACAfan
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:34 pm

Actually the OPEC price can be found here: http://www.opec.org/NewsInfo/DailyBasket/basket.asp
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
F9Animal
Topic Author
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (reply 26):
No offense intended, but everyone is pointing out how other nations pay more for fuel, that China, India, etc. are consuming more exponentially, and that the US populace is bad for being self-centered and non-conserving, but the best you can do is bash the President in a knee-jerk fashion to cause even more flaming. Well, which is it - the prez, the Chinese, the Indians, the Americans? According to you, in a world of 6 Billion or whatever, with all the dynamics listed above, some "idiot" from Texas is driving the price of a friggin' gallon of gas.

I tell you, it is so predictable on here...


Bash the president? I could care less about politics actually. I see the United States Of America in the hands of a Perfectly Normal President.

LOL!!!

Let the flaming begin!!!!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:42 pm

We need to develop alternate fuels - Hydrogen for example. Screw electric vehicles, too slow, no power, no endurance. Got to get the oil companies lobbyist out of the government pocket first . . .

We need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. It is not a renewable resource. Nothing will happen until we're dangerously low or out of the resource completely.

We need mass transit, lots of it. But that will only work in the cities. Can't put mass transit in the middle of frickin' Wyoming now can ya - so all you idiots that think that's the answer to everything - think again.

We need to develop incentives to get companies to develop alternate sources of energy. Won't happen until the oil companies are bought off or shut down.

We need to tap into the nearly unlimited supply of Natural Gas that's everywhere. Can't do that because every time someone wants to drill a hole in the ground the fuckin' earthbunnies and treehuggers have a fit . . . save an owl, save an amoeba. I'm all for conservation, but geez, there's a limit!

In the interim, I'll keep driving my BAFDT*, and loving it.


















BAFDT - Big Ass Ford Diesel Truck  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2005-02-23 04:42:34]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
co7772wuh
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:13 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:01 pm

Oil and gas prices were even higher in 1980 when Jimmy Carter was president . Ajusted for infation gas was just about $2.80 a gal..

No pun intended to President Carter . Just stating the facts !

Too bad we won't hear that from the main stream media .

Dave
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting EGNR (reply 3):
In contrast, aviation fuel is heavily subsidised (last I heard was it's about $1/50 a gallon - is this correct?). If one airline can't survive even with such heavily subsidised fuel, but others can, then it suggests the airline has deeper problems than just the fuel prices...


I think another thing is that many European airlines "hedge" their fuel so that although it can go both ways....lately they have been getting better deals on fuel by buying ahead at lower prices. For example, I believe IB has 90% of its fuel hedged for the first 6 months of 2005 at about 38-40$ per barrel.

Quoting Brons2 (reply 16):
Small diesels like in Europe just aren't sold here though, other than VW ironically.


The reason why not many small diesels are sold here in the states is because there really is no need for them. Diesel powered cars are popular in Europe because diesel fuel has always been cheaper than gasoline in Europe. Here in the states....diesel tends to be more expensive than gasoline...even now I believe that diesel is just about the same price as gasoline. Unless there is a noticeable difference in price between diesel and gasoline here in the states, we wont see an influx of diesel powered cars.

And for those who complain here in the states that gasoline is too expensive and whining about it....stop complaining and take a look at what our European counterparts are paying to fuel their cars.....just stop for a minute and imagine what it would be like paying $6.00 a gallon.....thats when you would start to see all the huge SUV's in the junkyard. But hey....as long as there is a strong demand.....those $2.00 for gas we are paying now will soon become $3.00 and so on.....so get used to it.....or stop driving huge cars. End of story.
Visca Barça!!
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:02 pm

"When was the last time a new oil refinery opened up in the lower 48 states?"

New refineries are irrelevant. Oil product production has continued to increase despite the fact that 100's of refineries have closed the reason is the refineries we do have are some of the most complex in the world and are able to turn heavy sour crude into yields of over 50% light products. We are changing water into wine!!

Another reason why we don't need new refineries is we can acquire the products cheaper from abroad and import them at a lower cost than it is to build an entirely new refinery for $500 million. In Europe and Asia we still have refineries running at less than 70% capacity as well as many US major refineries running at less than 80% No US Oil company will ever sink that amount of money into a refinery which can't even guarantee a good return as over the last decade refinery margins have dropped into the negative on several occasions.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 9):
Why did everyone revert to bigger cars, power bills and an SUV per family?


But since the early to mid-70's the definition of a gas guzzler has changed enormously. When I sat in the gas lines to fill up my family's cars in exchange for driving privileges, my mom's car was a 455 cu. in. V-8, my sister's a 400 cu. in. V-8, my dad's something similarly monstrous, and they all got poor mileage. My full-size car has a 3.8L V6 (231 cu. in.) and that's the biggest engine you can buy for it, but it gets 30 mpg highway with the a/c going, better than most of the "compact" cars of the mid-70's.

That people still think we all drive big cars with gas-sucking engines lays evidence that Detroit was successful in changing our perspective on engine sizes by rating them in metric sizes. In 1975, if you put a 231 cu. in. engine in a full-size GM car, people would simply laugh all the way to the Ford dealer.

We still have a long way to go, however. American's cars aren't taxed on engine displacement like in the UK, for the most part, they're taxed on value, or like here in Oregon, there's no sales tax on the purchase and only a flat $51 fee for two years for the license and smog check. (Since tax rates vary by state, YMMV.)
International Homo of Mystery
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5360
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:58 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (reply 31):
Personally, I am laughing my way to the bank. Fortunately, my company pays for my commuter bus pass (which incidentally have cut back on routes and changed to smaller busses, not only due to fuel costs, but because of low-ridership) from Everett to downtown Seattle and back each day, which is about 20 miles. As a result, I save on gas, it's one less car on I-5 every day, etc. I would encourage others to do the same, but one thing I continually see is that few people want to give up their beloved car and ride a bus.


Good for you for taking the bus. I wish I could be one of the good guys who takes the base, but just getting from my home in Auburn to my job in Renton would take me one transfer and twice as long as driving. Heck, my kids and I rode the bus home from the dealership a few miles from house, and we had to make TWO transfers and take a 30 minute hit at the community college transfer, where they made us stand in the rain while they sat with the door closed to the bus. Um, pass.

If I was single, I would probably go out of my way to ride the commuter train, but it's not worth losing an hour a day out of my family time (yet).

Airline content: Looking forward to my Seattle - Puerto Vallarta nonstop on Alaska Airlines in April!!!

Quoting F9Animal (reply 35):
Bash the president? I could care less about politics actually. I see the United States Of America in the hands of a Perfectly Normal President.

LOL!!!

Let the flaming begin!!!!


???
-Dave
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:21 pm

This is not going to help any airline, especially the ones sitting in bankruptcy. UAL's current business plan to exit bankruptcy this fall is based on average oil prices of $45.50/BBl....if oil starts to take-off (no pun intended), it throws everything out the window.
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:02 pm

I also don't like to pay more and more for fuel - but cool down.

This is a free market and everybody is allowed to sell products for the price he can sell, or not? I think it's called free market economy.

And as long as there are people who can afford cars which aren't fuel efficient, prices can't be too expensive. Should cost much more money!

We in Germany have to pay about 1,15 Euro for a liter standard and so the consumers behavour changed: they buy more fuel efficient cars - good for wallet, good for ecology.

Very simple.

Citjet,reply=30: Oh you poor Europeans. Your governments need to be giving you your guns, money(enormous taxes), fuel, and other rights BACK. I love Europe, but man o man, Im staying right here where everything is still relatively normal.

No need to say we are poor Europeans, Citjet - so who is crying?
It depends what "relatively normal" means for you - when you think it's normal to get guns and every dumb as***le can use it as a sort of toy , we don't want to be "relatively normal".

[Edited 2005-02-23 11:07:43]
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
sevenair
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:03 pm

I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff

awwwwwwww, get the fiddle out! try living in UK, we pay more than pretty much anyone, 70% tax i believe
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:09 pm

I am so sick of paying more and more at the pump for the same stuff.

That's the price to pay when the politic of your gvt for decades is dependance on something you don't have at home. And also the lack of judgment from the population which continues to buy very inefficient cars. In life, globally, the population got what it deserves, or more precisely, the result of the gvt mistakes and lack of political courage. (not only in the US of course). But who elects the gvt ?


Bush (father) said about global warming and oil over-consumption: "The American way of life is not negotiable". OK, now you suffer for that, and I won't shed a tear for you.
 
art
Posts: 2665
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:43 pm

Quoting Citjet (reply 30):
Oh you poor Europeans. Your governments need to be giving you your guns, money(enormous taxes), fuel, and other rights BACK. I love Europe, but man o man, Im staying right here where everything is still relatively normal.


How about substituting "relatively American" for "relatively normal"?

As for fuel, I would like the price to be increased in real terms all the time. A light, liquid high energy source by weight is a precious asset that should not be used up with no regard to the welfare of future generations. If Europeans once had a right to do this, so much the better if they lost that right.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:50 pm

Why is it in the U.S. that you have to live in a BIG city to realize any benefits of mass transportation? Yes, smaller cities have buses, but they don't go where 75% of the poplulation live or want to go. It's idiotic. In the U.S., we really have no choice but personal transportation.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
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RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:56 pm

Well as they have always said...
Necessity is the mother of invention.
High fuel costs may put a hurt in the pocket books, but it will make alternatives cheaper and more likely to be developed further. We have gotten far off of cheap oil for a long time. And relatively speaking it is still cheaper than a lot of other energy sources. However as oil continues to rise. Alternative energy sources become more viable. Other energy sources have drawbacks, but as time goes on they will slowly disappear.

Oil is not the way of the future, but it is the way of the present. Time will tell how we deal with the rising oil costs.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
co7772wuh
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:13 am

RE: Yippeee! Oil Back Above $50.00!

Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:21 pm

I read recently Qatar and a # of major oil compamies are investing billions in Gas to Liquid "LTD" technology . It's a process that converts natural gas to a liquid. If it will work , I don't have a clue .

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