schreiner
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Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:26 am

I want to buy new loudspeakers. What do you recommend? I want tm use it mainly for music (from pop to classical) and maybe I want surround sound (if i do, i will use the Bose123 2 speaker surround sound)... So... its the Bose123 or an other system you can recommend.

Budget: 2000 dollar.

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,
Schreiner
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:36 am

Go do yourself a favour and try some other brands...Bose as well as JBL are terrible!! Sorry to say so, and of course, as always it is a question of personal taste, but both manufacturers you've mentioned are well-known for outfitting discos or clubs or whatever you want to call it and live venues. And that is exactly how their hifi equipment sounds: Rumbling basses, "hissy" high notes and non-existent middle ranges.

Just for comparison: Try a B&W or any other British loudspeaker (B&W should be easiest to find), just try it, and if necessary, use a Subwoofer (if you want to damage your ears at all costs), and you should be able to stay inside your price range.

If you are into US sound, try the new Infinity speakers, they actually start sounding good now.

There are also some good German brands, that give you a sound that might be attractive to your ears, but I'm afraid it'll kill your budget!

Hope that helps!
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gkirk
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:46 am

Dunno, but if wrestling was real, then JBL's clothesline from hell would be pretty sore I would think  Big grin
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:59 am

Thanks Andreas: ive seen the B&W website. Nice band indeed. But why would I need a subwoofer for? I use it mainly for music. Is a subwoofer not horrible for just a CD or music play? Ive got a Sony amplifier so more money for speakers would be stupid no?
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PilotJmartin
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:11 am

I agree B&W are the best, I love them, top of the line.
 
Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:46 am

Schreiner:
If you have $2000 to spend on speakers, don't waste it on Bose or JBL.

Brands I'd recommend:
Tanny
Totem Acoustics
Bowers & Wilkins


http://www.tannoy.com/ResOverview

http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/index_eng.htm

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/global.main


We're discussed this before here. Bose has a good marketing campaign but that's about it. I have an extra pair of Bose speakers that were given to me. They are not good speakers for what they originally cost.
Bose and JBL make good speakers for GM and Ford automobiles but that's about it.


Go to your nearest hi-end audiophile store and hear for yourself.

May I ask, what kind of turntable are you using?
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whitehatter
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:52 am

Harman Kardon.

Absolutely superb stuff, I've got a HK sound setup on my main PC and it's streets ahead of anything similar. Their home stuff is equally well regarded.

http://www.harmankardon.com/

Now part of the JBL group.
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:31 am

Well, I want to have SL1200's but its not for that purpose  Big grin, its for my CD's mostly... radio/tv/pc will connect also.

I dont think BOSE is that expensive; 400 dollar for the whole system. Normally you have to pay that for just one speaker.

Thanks for the advice, I'll have a look... but is a B&W or Harman usefull if I have a sony amplifier?

Cheers,
Schreiner

[Edited 2005-03-02 00:40:22]
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:39 am

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Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:00 am

Schreiner:
Technics 1200 should only be used for broadcasting/DJ purposes only. I have one and it sounds good and all. I like it for recording mix tapes because the platter gets up to full speed so fast. It's ideal for records that don't have much space between songs.
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whitehatter
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:48 am

The very best turntables for vinyl are probably the EMT ones that the BBC use when they need to play vinyl.

Hard to find and outrageously priced, but if you can stumble on one second hand grab it. They last forever.

http://www.shawsounds.com/vinyl_lps___45s
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:55 am

My random sound system consists of two B&W speakers now used as surround speakers, one Pioneer centre speaker that I hardly ever use and two Tannoy main speakers. I can only recommend all of them, they are good value for money and make me smile each time I hear the crappy sound of your average mini-speaker.

Just for the hell of it, take a look at Bang & Olufsen. Then take a look at the price tag!  Laugh out loud

Edit: The Tannoys are Mercury M3s.

[Edited 2005-03-02 02:02:12]
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Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:17 am

Aloges:
Just for the hell of it, take a look at Bang & Olufsen. Then take a look at the price tag!


They are a joke!
The BeoGram 6000 and 2000 turntables were nice but that's about it. You can pick those turntable up dirt cheap now because the replacement stylus are so expensive and are only sold by them.

The few people I've met that has Bang & Olufsen stereos aren't serious music listeners. Then tend to like smooth jazz and top 40 music.
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:28 am

Really? I thought people who dish out that kind of money for a sound system at least try to get as much out of it as they put into it. Or have B&Os turned into fashion items people just buy for the hell of it?

I for one would love to hear Tori Amos' voice ("I can't see New York", e.g.) reproduced by a B&O earphone, the only thing they make I might be able to buy in the not-sooo-distant future.

The real treat would however be getting one of my father's classical records out and putting that Thorens turntable of his to work. I love the simplicity and perfection of that thing.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
F9Widebody
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:12 pm

Also take a look at Speakers by Jamo. I believe they are from Sweden. That's what we have in our house, and I love them!

Regards
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:28 pm

Bang & Olufson??????????????????????? You must be kidding *vomit*

Listen to those EUR 5,000 B&O...err...sound objects or whatever one might call it, then use a USD 300 mini-hifi to compare, and you'll find the cheap mini-hifi strangely good-sounding  Big grin Big grin

Schreiner: Subwoofers are for bass freaks. Since you took JBL and Bose into consideration, I thought you are one of those  Big grin

I do not think it is necessary, I love B&W bass, very precise, dry, just the way I love it, so no, you don't really need that one.

Sony and B&W...why not?? Try it..as opposed to certain opinions on the www, I believe B&W are rather uncritical, I use Rotel Silver Line to power my B&Ws, not too much power but full sound even when listening at low volume, besides, I do not believe in this speaker "belonging" to that amp.

Never forget: Forget all those test reports, you've got the best (and the only relevant) testing instruments right with you all the time (at least I hope so Big grin)...your ears. Use your ears, and you'll end up with exactly the speakers that suit your taste best!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:54 pm

Celestion branded speakers are always worth a look.

Celestion do the actual speakers in many high-end hifi and musician systems, so they have plenty of experience in high powered sound delivery.

I recently had a look at these
http://ws1.richersounds.com/showprod...a=showproduct&pid=CELE-AVF302-GLAS
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:31 pm

Thanks again for all the info. But what do you think about the BOSE123 system? Surrond from just 2 speakers. Guess they are also quite good in stereo music play?

Cheers,
Schreiner
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Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:05 am

Aloges:
Really? I thought people who dish out that kind of money for a sound system at least try to get as much out of it as they put into it.


One would think but that's not the case. They are the faux mansions of stereos. They are the car-based SUV of stereos. It's all about looks yet has no functionaity and marginal build quality.




Or have B&Os turned into fashion items people just buy for the hell of it?

Yep!
Always were but more so today. They are made to look pretty in a downtown converted residential loft.
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NoUFO
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Andreas (reply 1):
There are also some good German brands, that give you a sound that might be attractive to your ears, but I'm afraid it'll kill your budget!


This one doesn't: Audio Physic Yara. http://www.audiophysic.de/produkte/yara/index_e.html
~ EUR 1500 (pair)
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:56 am

Nil Bass, these ones...absolutely nil! That goes for Spark and Virgo, too!

Avanti is great, but there is that frigging budget problem again.

Plus: Audio Physics is a speaker manufacturer that just loves to couple them with tube amps, using a Sony transistor will just take away further bass power.
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:36 am

Meh... Now I know why I don't know anyone who owns B&O stuff, or an SUV, for that matter.
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Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:40 am

LOL Aloges!  Smile

None of these people are close friends. These were acquaintances and/or co-workers.
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:48 am

Oh, I'm sure you'd be the last person to hang out with them, and there's no need for a  Big grin this time.
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:16 am

Thanks again for all the info. But what do you think about the BOSE123 system? Surrond from just 2 speakers. Guess they are also quite good in stereo music play?

Cheers,
Schreiner
Soaring the internet...
 
NoUFO
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:26 am

Andreas, is that so?
How about Nubert ( http://www.nubert.de crappy website, btw) then? I came across an article published in Die Zeit ( http://www.zeit.de/2003/02/Weltmeister_Nubert ), basically saying Nuberts are speakers for the insiders, and you seem to be one of those. Big grin

For little more than EUR 1,700, Schreiner could afford 2 x nuLine 100 + 1 x nuLine CS-40 Centerspeaker, test them for 4 weeks and - if neccessary - return them without further costs.
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:26 am

To be honest, I can't see how this "surround from two speakers" thing could work. There certainly is a lot technology and engineering can do to make it sound surround-ish, but I doubt it is possible to make it just as good as "true surround" for mainly two reasons:

Where does the sound of a train passing behind your back come from? Right, from behind your back. That's why speakers reproducing that sound are probably best placed there, too.

Second, even if "surround from two speakers" works great in the manufacturer's lab, you won't want to listen to your music in that lab. The complicated technology that makes "surround from two speakers" work seems less adaptable to different room designs than the old-fashioned method of using multiple speakers.

But as others said: your ears are the one and only judge you should trust.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:48 am

Have to second Aloges. This entire Surround stuff may be something you don't like anyway. One musician told me that a sound coming from behind inevitably causes moments in wich he wants to turn his head. While this may be nice for DVD and "home entertainment", it's unnecessary for HiFi. Three speakers, he said, is the optimum: One centerspeaker (not a subwoofer!) and a stereo set.

As for Boses's 123: I couldn't find it on their website, but Google revealed two pics and the speakers look crappy - "Brüllwürfel" (Screamcubes) as I would call them.

Frankly, before you believe what Bose or any other manufacturer writes on usually patient e-papers, you should carefully listen to them at your local dealer and compare them with other products.
Mine are from Infinity, which I like, B&W are great too, because, just like Andreas, I like dry basses with a good attack. But that all depends on personal opinions and preferrences. Some people prefer "warm" sounding Kef speakers over B&W, but I consider their reproduction of bass sounds "muddy".

[Edited 2005-03-02 21:01:17]
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Superfly
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:07 am

NoUFO:
While this may be nice for DVD and "home entertainment", it's unnecessary for HiFi

Unless of course you are listening to a Quadraphonic system with a quadraphonic reel tape that was intended for 4 channels.  Smile






Aloges:
Do you remember Q sound from the early 1990s?
That was a qimmick also. Some Q sound recording were Sting 'Soul Cages', Luther Vandross - 'Power Of Love'.




http://www.qsound.com/2002/technology/main1.asp
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aloges
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:51 pm

Quoting Superfly (reply 28):
Do you remember Q sound from the early 1990s?


No, not at all. I'm not that old!  Silly

As for quadraphonic: my receiver has a feature that sends part of the audio signal to my two rear speakers. It has never irritated me since the sound is quite discreet, but it does sound good and a lot better than just normal stereo.

[Edited 2005-03-03 13:04:01]
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:08 pm

Nobby, I know Nubert, of course...unfortunately, I never found a shop where I can cross-listen to Nubert and other speaker brands without being thrown out of the shop after around 30 seconds or so.

Therefore I can't really say something bad about Nubert. The story sounds rather sensible, no distributors, just direct marketing, and the motivation of Herr Nubert is pretty understandable...he didn't like the sound of other speakers Big grin Big grin Big grin Isn't this how they all started?

Problem is: Schreiner doesn't stand a chance to listen extensively to Nubert speakers BEFORE buying the set. I know it can be done at the Nubert plant...somewhere around Schwaebisch Hall or so...a bit far for Schreiner,I'm afraid...

btw: I checked Audio Physics when I bought those B&Ws of mine, since I didn't know that much on the audio scenery then...I deeply distrust those so-called "expert" magazines, so I ran around from shop to shop with samples of my favorite music and did what I had to do: Listening!

In Stuttgart I found a shop that sells Lua, extremely great sound (tube fanatic, this guy from Lake Constance, Superfly you should check those, you'll love it!!!!!), just about perfect, unfortunately somewhat beyond my own budget then...and this guy, on a lazy saturday afternoon, no other customers present, was just happy to have someone to co-listen, and he gave me the whole Lua AND Audio Physics show....SO BEAUTIFUL!!!! Just not the small ones, I'm afraid...
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
NoUFO
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:54 pm

Well, Schreiner could send those speakers back on the company's costs. He wouldn't even need to carry them to the next post office. And doesn't sound Nubert similar to Norbert? If that isn't a good sign - what is? Big grin

Never heard of Lua, but then: I'm no longer into this stuff. All I bought over the past 10 years was a cheap DVD Player and a not so cheap B&O TV. Yes, at least in this case, design does matter.
But this TV cured my second me - my designer's wish to own a B&O sculpture. I should have choosen a Loewe instead; they are good looking too and hopefully don't produce a blurry picture a short time after the warranty expires.  Sad
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aa777flyer
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:41 am

I have Boston Acoustics (Fronts/Surround/Center). I have a KEF subwoofer.

Very happy with all!
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:18 am

Well. You all make it very tough to make a decision.  Smile
I think I've made up my mind on some things: I want SMALL stereo speakers. Somelike the BOSE Acoustimass 5 series III. Are there any competitors who can also supply me with that kind of speakers?

Does the MEDIAMARKT provide nice stuff? Or do I have to go to a specialized shop?

Cheers again guys,
Schreiner
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:26 am

Well first of all, go to Saturn, not the red ones, "don't be stupid"  Wink Big grin, prices are mostly higher at MM. As for speakers like B&W, no, you'll have to go to a more specialized shop, but then, these are the shops where you can still negotiate...I did and got 20% off my package. Furthermore, those special shops do let you try out the speakers at home in your personal listening surroundings, using your own equipment....that's very important!!

Acoustimass...rings a bell but I'm not sure...these are very small, right? Don't go too small, sound needs volume, no volume, it'll sound flat.

And yes, most manufacturers do have smaller speakers, that still sound great, take a look, then listen, and many of them even look just great, not B&O, of course Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:24 am

There I am again... Still not decided! :|

I've seen some "Monitor Audio" speakers. They are quite good compared to price I've heard.

Now I am wondering why some speakers have multiple low-tone cones. One is enough I thought? Why would I choose a speaker with one low-tone (bass) cone, and why would I choose for a speaker with multiple bass-cone?

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Schreiner
Soaring the internet...
 
schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:29 pm

Hmm, guess no-one has an answer to my question above? I asume the Germans haven't read it yet?  Smile

Please help me out here... its a huge amount of money for me (just a student!)

Cheers,
Schreiner
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jrowson
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:51 pm

I've got a pair of B&W speakers, and i simply have no reason to change them. They are some of the best hifi quality speakers i've come across.

Prior to this I had some KEF speakers, and they did a very good job aswell.
James Rowson
 
Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:06 pm

Hi there,

sorry didn't see it right away! Ok, why more than one bass speaker: Quite easy to answer really: When it comes to bass, there are 2 magical truths in a loudspeaker's life:
1. Low frequencies are hard to place in your listening space, which makes it rather irrelevant where you place a subwoofer...put it behind the couch, doesn't matter sounds great anyway.

2. The more bass you want, the bigger the bass speaker needs to be. Bass frequencies are transported by air and they spread around on a linear basis, no matter what obstacles they hit (see 1.) The bigger the bass speaker, the more air is being vibrated, the more bass hits the ear.

Quite simple really! Now why 2 or even 3 bass speakers?

Simple again: If you don't want to build large speakers, like the B&W Nautilus 1, you need to have more than 1 bass speaker to get bass volume (Remember: The larger the speaker, the more bass!!), just build it into the side of the speaker (quite a few manufacturers do this actually), it doesn't matter WHERE they put, a s long as it is there!

What is better, 1 or more bass speaker? Hard to say, from a physical point of view there is really no answer, again you just have to listen to a few speakers using both principles, I definitely like those with one big bass speaker much better, but I do not expect other people to say the same, it's just personal.

As for the Monitor Audio: So you've heard  Wink Big grin...well then go find a dealer and LISTEN to it!!!! And don't forget to tell me your opinion, I'm always interested!

Hope that helps!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
NoUFO
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:10 pm

Right. Floorstanding speakers with only one woofer often don't deliver enough bass. Although neighbours always hear the low frequencies, they (the basses, not the neighbours) need a boost - especially when you listen to music at low volume.
That's why your amp probably comes with a loudness control.
Or take a look at guitar amps and amps for bass guitars. While a 100 W amp for a guitar is plenty, bass-amps often deliver 200 or 300 Watt.

If you really want to spend 2,000 $, spend a serious amount of time listening first. Neither Andreas nor myself can really help you finding the ideal speaker. when I was a student, I spent some 1,300 Mark(!) on speakers, not USD 2,000 and it literally took me months to decide.
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schreiner
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:21 am

Alright... thanks for the advice, it will take me a few weeks i guess, but then I will let you know!
Thanks to the germans!
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:09 am

Schreiner it took me at least 2 months to find my speakers, was a bit easier to find the electronics, but then.....anyway have fun! Listening to different sets of speakers IS fun!!

Glad that I could help...just as long as you guys stay away from the WC 2006, just like in 2002 Big grin Big grin Big grin
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QANTAS077
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:15 am

don't forget to checkout the cerwin vega range, they are among the best speakers your ears will ever have the pleasure of hearing!
 
FlyVirgin744
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:24 pm

You can buy a receiver that will make any two speakers turn into surround, the BOSE is a just a marketing gimmick. Many stereo receivers offer this function. As said before by others, go with B&W. Your friends who bought bose for more $$$$ will cringe when they hear your stereo set up.
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Andreas
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RE: Bose Vs JBL

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:19 pm

Quoting Qantas077 (Reply 42):
cerwin vega range

I may be mistaken, but isn't Cerwin vega a manufacturer for live concert equipment? I know a lot of international top acts use Cerwin equipment on their tours, I didn't know they do home speakers as well!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!

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