planespotterx
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The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:34 am

Anyone else find it "ironic" that the fact a woman can be held hostage by Iraqi "terrorists" armed with guns and whatever else they have, to be held there for so long with the US doing nothing.
In the end the Italian army decide to do something, go in and rescue her, drive her to "safety" only to be fired upon by US trigger-happy troops.
Sort of "funny" in a way, the fact she can be held by terrorists and be relatively unharmed and yet the people who should be out there who claim there still there to "protect" people like her open-fire on a armed escort.
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
NoUFO
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:46 am

They didn't "go in and rescued her". Her release is the result of negotiations between the terrorists and the Italian government. It's likely ransom was paid.

How do you know the Americans were "trigger-happy". Right for now, both sides say completely diffierent things. The Italians say they had easily passed all security posts before, Americans and Italians were well informed and that they didn't even have time to tell the "trigger-happy" soldiers who they are.
The Americans say they warned them by shooting in the air and what not but the driver didn't react.

It seems the Italians are right, as one Italian politican could listen to what happened live on his phone. But it's still too early to draw any conclusions.

[Edited 2005-03-05 18:10:41]
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SATL382G
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:56 am

...or perhaps the Italians simply failed to coordinate their rescue operation with the appropriate agencies....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
11Bravo
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.


That's definitely just you. The Italian Army rescued her? Where in the world did you get that bit of rubbish? The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers. That isn't being trigger happy. That's what they're supposed to do in that situation. You may want to go read a few news stories about this incident before you post more mindless stupidity.
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sebolino
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting SATL382G (reply 2):
...or perhaps the Italians simply failed to coordinate their rescue operation with the appropriate agencies....



The secret services NEVER communicate between one another in these situtation. The line is "don't trust anyone".
And it seems the Amercians were very fast to shoot ... Time will tell.


Quoting 11Bravo (reply 3):
The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers.


Well, the hostage explained that this version (the American one) was wrong. The car was running slowly, as the Italians know perfectly what to do at the checkpoint, at least that's what was reported.
 
planespotterx
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:25 am

That's definitely just you. The Italian Army rescued her? Where in the world did you get that bit of rubbish? The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers. That isn't being trigger happy. That's what they're supposed to do in that situation. You may want to go read a few news stories about this incident before you post more mindless stupidity.

Ok so lets say what had that car been full of civilians wanting hospital attention, or a pregnant mother giving birth.
The US wonder why theres so much collateral-damage, if they go firing at the first thing they see then of course theres going to be injuries.
The soldier (s) who open-fired on a unidentified target need re-educating military style on the types of threats in that situation, you cant just go firing on a target you "think" is hostile, thats why the RAF Tornado was downed in the first days of the war, the US didnt know the fighter was British but shot at it anyway, just like the Italian woman.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:30 am

Planespotterx, so if a car is speeding through a checkpoint, you expect the soldiers to flag it down first for check if it a carbomber or a woman in labor first? Are you kidding?

The US wonder why theres so much collateral-damage

No not really. Only you and a few others seem to have this unrealistic expectation of a sterile war.
"Shaddap you!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.


Spotters, I can't say exactly what's on my mind - I'd rather not get banned from here. Your statement is elementary and juvenile - which is just about normal for you.

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
In the end the Italian army decide to do something, go in and rescue her, drive her to "safety" only to be fired upon by US trigger-happy troops.


A) She wasn't rescued - she was released.

B) The American's weren't trigger happy - as far as I can tell, and if you'd bothered to read and listen to the news you'd know this too - the Italians made no coordination with the US Forces guarding the airport, failed to stop as ordered, and attempted to run a road block. I'd have fired their asses up too.

Typical Planspotterx bullshit ramblings . . . useless, tiring, ignorant.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:33 am

Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.

No. The only person who was "plain dumb" is the driver of the car for not stopping at the military checkpoint.

It's very unfortunate that this happened but what did they expect? Iraq is filled with scum blowing up cars and civilians. The security personnel thought this was another daily car bomb and took action to protect themselves. Better to be safe than sorry.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
planespotterx
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:34 am

LOL I never claimed to be the commander of the US forces, this site is a site of free-speech and regardless of what YOU may think I too am entitled to this speech.
Im only stating the obvious, imagine had this happened anywhere else, if it was the British forces there'd be uproar, but just cos its the US army it somehow makes it "acceptable" that theres going to be collateral damage.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:38 am

This site is not free speech. this post could get deleted. Its a private forum. Who says your not entitled to your opinion? Are you begrudging us our opinion of you? don't cry. If you state absurd things, expect to be challenged. and British forces aren't immune to collateral damage. No one is. Again, war is not sterile (sorry to burst your bubble). Maybe you should focus your outrage on insurgents intentionally targeting Iraqi civilians. In fact, why aren't you? There are much more senseless deaths from that. Or is it not as fun?
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solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:44 am

JetService, It's because they are moslem and would be accused of being a racist if he were to condemn them.

So as it goes...

Americans accidently killing Moselms = EXTREME OUTRAGE
Terrorists intentionally killing Americans = NO BIG DEAL ... WE DON'T NEED TO SAY A WORD
PS: DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL!

Signed,
The Arab Media
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
planespotterx
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:44 am

lol JetService and anyone else whos American, your all so full of yourselves your even starting to believe you rule the world, no wonder Iraq is as Fucked-up as it is.
Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters

I'll let you lot decide that.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 9):
LOL I never claimed to be the commander of the US forces, this site is a site of free-speech and regardless of what YOU may think I too am entitled to this speech.


It sure is - free speech site - that's why you're allowed to spew that ridiculous drivel from your ignorant ass. And exactly why I'm responding - very delicately for me actually - at the stupidity and ignorance of your post.

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 9):
Im only stating the obvious, imagine had this happened anywhere else, if it was the British forces there'd be uproar, but just cos its the US army it somehow makes it "acceptable"


This unfortunate incident is neither common nor acceptable - not at all. It would be just as tragic had it been UK forces. (By the way, they've never had any problems like this have they).

I'm not going to debate this with you further - it's unfortunate. The US was not trigger happy. The Italians did not rescue anyone. When you grow up, get back on A-Net and lets see if you learned anything It's a waste of time to talk to you.  talktothehand 

[Edited 2005-03-05 18:49:39]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 12):
Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters


What freedom fighters? Oh... you mean the ones that kill innocent people and give their own people a bloodbath from homicide car bombings?


Quoting Planespotterx (reply 12):
I'll let you lot decide that.


It wasn't a hard decision.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
777236ER
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:54 am

Oh... you mean the ones that kill innocent people

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:55 am

Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters

I'll let you lot decide that.


I already made my decision. It is based on the nationalities of the insurgents (Syrian, Sudanese, Moroccan, etc) and the nationalities of the victims (Iraqis). Couple that with the protests of the terrorism by the Iraqi population (you HAVE been watching the news, correct?). Its a no-brainer. These are far from freedom fighters. These are people trying to take Iraq away from the Iraqi people and enforce an radical Islamic regime. What's your take?

OK, now back to your original concern.

So tell me your solution, smart guy.
Should soldiers verify ID before they engage an unidentified vehicle coming at them? How do they do that before the car gets within the blast radius of a carbomb? I'm really dying to here the solution to that one.

Also, do you think if British soldiers were manning a checkpoint, would they've blown the vehicle away too? From my understanding the British military is quite formidable, so I'm guessing the answer is yes.

All that's left is the soldiers being notified of friendlies coming through. But that the responsibility of the occupants and that doesn't fit into your agenda to well.
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JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:58 am

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.

Good! That's because they're tactically ineffective. Would you feel better if they kill more?
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Udo
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Solarix (reply 11):
Signed,
The Arab Media


For such an intelligent generalisation, you should be praised:  praise 
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:14 am

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.
That fact you even call them "insurgent forces" is disgusting. They are savage satanic animals who deserve to meet that 500 pound bomb dropped by an F-16.

For such an intelligent generalisation, you should be praised
Instead of posting little smiley faces why don't you convince me to change my opinion then?

The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner but they don't make a peep when an Arab slaughters US civilians with a machete.
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petertenthije
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting JetService (reply 17):
The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.

Good! That's because they're tactically ineffective. Would you feel better if they kill more?


The question is, do the terrorists kill fewer people becuase they are tactically ineffective, or does the US kill more Iraqis because some of their troops are tactically incompetent.

Either case, your remark is just disgusting.
Attamottamotta!
 
JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:32 am

Either case, your remark is just disgusting.

What's dsigusting about being glad the insurgent scumbags are not able to kill a lot of people? Nothing. That's a GOOD thing.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Udo
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
Instead of posting little smiley faces why don't you convince me to change my opinion then?


I don't think there is a chance people like you can be convinced of anything but the things you want to see. I guess you haven't yet thought about the meaning of an expression like "The Arab Media" - using such generalisations and stereotypes is the same bull as the often heard "The Americans".  ill 


Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner but they don't make a peep when an Arab slaughters US civilians with a machete.


First of all, I doubt that the whole "Arab World" would ignore a civilian being killed. You guys see some cheering insane Arabs and burning American flags on Fox TV and automatically you point the finger at millions of people.  thumbsdown 

And the difference is, American soldiers are in Iraq to fight for democracy, they should be an example for the values your country is preaching. They have to stick to the rules. Well, terrorists are terrorists, people who do not have values and do not care about anything. Actions of terrorists should not be taken as an excuse to cover own misbehaviour.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:42 am

Planespotterix,

You run a roadblock in Northern Ireland, you´ll get yourself shot up by the British Army. I´ve got it from a friend who served in the British Army in Northern Ireland that they usually have two teams with GPMGs hidden in the bushes about 200 to 500 yards from each end of the road block. Anybody crashing through a road block will find himself under fire from a 7.62 Nato machine gun. This was experienced by a few teenagers who were driving a stolen car and thought they could get away with it.
If you are in a country with terrorists (I can say the same about Spain or Germany back in the mid 70s) crashing a road block is at your own risk.

Now concerning the situation in Iraq, IMO at the moment there is a three sided war. On one hand you´ve got the Americans and their allies, plus the elected government (BTW, the party that won was not the American choice), the old Baathists, mostly secular Sunnis, who want to get back into their old positions because they suddenly find themselves in a minority in a place they ruled for decades, and last, Al-Qaeda, radical fundamentalist Wahabite Sunnis, who try to install a Taliban like rule, to make Iraq what Afghanistan was before 9/11.

I think most suicide attacks are done by Al-Qaeda supporters, since the socialist influenced Baathists rather want to stay alive to harvest after their victory.

Add to this private armies and militias loyal to regional political and religious leaders, each craving for absolute rule and you´ve got the mix.

Jan

[Edited 2005-03-05 19:49:41]
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JetService
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:43 am

And the difference is, American soldiers are in Iraq to fight for democracy, they should be an example for the values your country is preaching. They have to stick to the rules.

What rule are you referring to? Don't engage a carbomber until you check his ID?

Well, terrorists are terrorists, people who do not have values and do not care about anything. Actions of terrorists should not be taken as an excuse to cover own misbehaviour.

Nor should their behavior be ignored. But again, denoucing the insurgent murderous way goes against the underlying agenda here. Oh well.
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qr332
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Solarix (reply 11):
Americans accidently killing Moselms = EXTREME OUTRAGE
Terrorists intentionally killing Americans = NO BIG DEAL ... WE DON'T NEED TO SAY A WORD
PS: DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL!


That is the biggest load of shit I have ever read. Terrorists killing Americans is not made into a big deal? You have completley reversed things: Iraqis, who have a death toll that is huge, are called collatoral damage, but the US, hell no, they are some sort of special power.

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 13):
This unfortunate incident is neither common nor acceptable


Bullshit. The amount of cases that have been reported where the US have made "accidents" is much higher than it should be.

Quoting Solarix (reply 14):
What freedom fighters? Oh... you mean the ones that kill innocent people and give their own people a bloodbath from homicide car bombings?


So the bastards blowing their own civilians up are now the only people fighting in Iraq? And what about America? The amount of civilians they have killed doesn't even compare to those killed by the terrorists.

Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
Instead of posting little smiley faces why don't you convince me to change my opinion then?


Even if he tried, people like you tend to ignore the facts.

Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner but they don't make a peep when an Arab slaughters US civilians with a machete.


EXCUSE ME?! How much Arab media do you watch? How many people from the Middle East do you correspond with? Just because those little shitheads running your media decide to give us a bad name and not report the truth doesn't mean its true. The beheadings and the attacks have recieved a lot of resentment from the Arab world, so don't run your mouth when you don't know what your talking about.

Quoting JetService (reply 21):
What's dsigusting about being glad the insurgent scumbags are not able to kill a lot of people? Nothing. That's a GOOD thing.


Whats disgusting is that you completley ignored that your government, who is "liberating" the Iraqis have killed more Iraqi civilians than the terrorists, and that you see it as nothing more than collatoral damage. How would you feel if it was a relative of yours and if it was them who were labelled "collatoral damage"?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
petertenthije
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting JetService (reply 21):
What's dsigusting about being glad the insurgent scumbags are not able to kill a lot of people? Nothing. That's a GOOD thing.


Sorry, I should have been more clear on that I suppose. I find it rather disgusting that the US kills more Iraqis and that you do not seem to mind.
Attamottamotta!
 
Udo
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting JetService (reply 24):
What rule are you referring to? Don't engage a carbomber until you check his ID?


I was referring to the torture against prisoners. I did NOT question actions against car bombers or whatever.  no 

Quoting JetService (reply 24):
Nor should their behavior be ignored. But again, denoucing the insurgent murderous way goes against the underlying agenda here. Oh well.


Did I suggest terrorists' actions are ignored or should be ignored? Better read again...  listen 



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:59 am

US ambassador to Italy talking about that killed Italian secret service guy being a "hero"...if it wasn't for his stupid trigger-happy compatriots who made him "hero" this guy could be alive Mr. ambassador forgot to say.

The whole incident will end up being swept under the carpet anyway. Casualties matter only as long as they're Americans.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting QR332 (reply 25):
Bullshit. The amount of cases that have been reported where the US have made "accidents" is much higher than it should be.


SOURCE! Prove your statement.

Quoting Udo (reply 22):
Actions of terrorists should not be taken as an excuse to cover own misbehaviour.


You're exactly right Udo.

Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner


And the US and Allied world should go apeshit over this as well. Solarix, if you think this is OK, you're way off base.


Quoting QR332 (reply 25):
Whats disgusting is that you completley ignored that your government, who is "liberating" the Iraqis have killed more Iraqi civilians than the terrorists, and that you see it as nothing more than collatoral damage.


Once again, Source please. Prove your statement. Seems to me, as reported by BBC, and other reliable news sources (NOT Fox, CNN, etc), the Iraqi terrorists/insurgency are doing a pretty damned good job of blowing up their own . . . . prove me wrong, or STFU.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Banco
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting JetService (reply 16):
Also, do you think if British soldiers were manning a checkpoint, would they've blown the vehicle away too? From my understanding the British military is quite formidable, so I'm guessing the answer is yes.


To be honest, it would quite probably not be. It's a delicate thing to say, because we really don't know the full truth of this case, and I really don't want to suggest that the US troops were trigger-happy when we certainly don't know that at all. The British forces do seem to be much more reluctant to open fire at road blocks. That's not to say their way is necessarily better, it must be remembered that the British sector is much more peaceful than in central Iraq, but it does seem apparent that the British troops react differently. Maybe in Baghdad that would result in a lot of British casualties, maybe not.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:37 am

That is the biggest load of shit I have ever read.

Good. I’m glad you feel that way. I have my opinions and you have your own. I can respect that.

So the bastards blowing their own civilians up are now the only people fighting in Iraq? And what about America?

Americans DON’T intentionally target civilians. The terrorist scum DO. It is very unfortunate that civilians are killed and I don’t enjoy seeing that.

Just because those little shitheads running your media decide to give us a bad name and not report the truth doesn't mean its true.

I've always found the BBC to be a good news source. Of course the media never reports the full truth. At least we can agree on something  Smile

The beheadings and the attacks have recieved a lot of resentment from the Arab world, so don't run your mouth when you don't know what your talking about.

How come I have not heard about it then? Most of the Islamic forums I’ve visted people praise the attacks and call them “heroic freedom fighters”. Show me some news articles or links to prove otherwise and I will be more than happy to change my mind.


And the US and Allied world should go apeshit over this as well. Solarix, if you think this is OK, you're way off base.

No it is not OK. I was just using that as an example. I just get so sick and tired of people talking so much trash about the country I love it makes me sick.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 29):
SOURCE! Prove your statement.


Prove my statement? I'll give you two examples I can remember off the top of my head: the first is the attack on the Al Jazeera building by US forces, where a reported who had a 4 year old girl was shot dead: that was one accident. A second was an attack on Palestine hotel, which was full of journalists, also attacked by the US "by mistake". There was also the "accident" of the guy shooting the person who was unarmed and begging for his life in Fallujah.

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 29):
Once again, Source please. Prove your statement. Seems to me, as reported by BBC, and other reliable news sources (NOT Fox, CNN, etc), the Iraqi terrorists/insurgency are doing a pretty damned good job of blowing up their own . . . . prove me wrong, or STFU.


Did I say they weren't blowing up their own? So are you seriously telling me the insurgents have killed more civilians than the US? And even if it were true, there would be no terrorist insurgents today if it wasn't for the US attack in the first place. Don't try to twist facts.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
commander_rabb
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting 777236ER (reply 15):
The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.


Good! Nothing like a good body count to prove the results of killing bad Haji's.



Quoting L410Turbolet (reply 28):
The whole incident will end up being swept under the carpet anyway. Casualties matter only as long as they're Americans.


Are you having a bad century? Or are you just a little pissy today?

Let me remind all of you that there is a war zone there and there is the distinct possibility that for whatever reason you could get whacked.
 
gkirk
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:47 am

SSSHHHHHHH, you're not allowed to have your own point of view  Wink
You must share George Dubya Bush's and Republicans or you are considered the enemy
 flamed 
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
174thfwff
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:49 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 9):
this site is a site of free-speech and regardless of what YOU may think I too am entitled to this speech.


Wrong. As an official of this website, I need to make things clear.

It is a common misconception that you should be entitled to free speech on the Airliners.net forums. That is not the case, nor is it the case in any discussion forum on the web. You are entitled to free speech on public areas in society, not on private property. Further, we reserve the right to delete any post for any reason that is put up on our messageboard. So Planespotterx, please make sure you understand our rules before you make claims like that.

-174th
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:51 am

OK couple of things, first I would not have done what the Italians did, driving away from my captors maybe a relief and you want to do it as quickly as possible, but also knowing how nuts the american army is and will shoot anything that blinks I would have taken it slowly. Also it is sad that you can be in the hands of terrorists for Weeks then be shot at by the americans
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Newark777
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting Gkirk (reply 34):
SSSHHHHHHH, you're not allowed to have your own point of view
You must share George Dubya Bush's and Republicans or you are considered the enemy


I guess this is the only argument that you have anymore. Just complain that you are being portrayed as the enemy. Grow up and come up with some real arguments.  cry 

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
British767
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
Anyone else find it "ironic" that the fact a woman can be held hostage by Iraqi "terrorists" armed with guns and whatever else they have, to be held there for so long with the US doing nothing.


It was an Italian woman, not an American. Why should the US sort out Italy's problems?
 
gkirk
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Newark777 (reply 37):
I guess this is the only argument that you have anymore. Just complain that you are being portrayed as the enemy. Grow up and come up with some real arguments


I take it you never noticed my smilies  Wink Although perhaps I should have put in the sarcasm smilie also
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Newark777
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 36):
but also knowing how nuts the american army is and will shoot anything that blinks I would have taken it slowly. Also it is sad that you can be in the hands of terrorists for Weeks then be shot at by the americans


Do you know how irrational and ignorant you sound? I would have liked to see what you would have done if you were those soldiers in that situation. So, tell me, would you have not shot at the oncoming Italian cars? It is a checkpoint for a reason, and because of past attacks violators of the checkpoint will be treated harshly. The sad part in this story is that people like you can twist the facts around to make the US the enemy.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Gary2880
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:22 am

yes as usual everyones ignorant appart from you arnt they newark

if you wish to scroll back up and find out how the british handle checkpoints you`ll find its a little diffrent from the usual paranoid attitude

sorry if i think that americans shooting civilians arnt the good guys
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Newark777
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 41):
if you wish to scroll back up and find out how the british handle checkpoints you`ll find its a little diffrent from the usual paranoid attitude


Quoting Banco (reply 30):
That's not to say their way is necessarily better, it must be remembered that the British sector is much more peaceful than in central Iraq


Shooting at civilians = BAD

Shooting at cars that approach their checkpoint without stopping = GOOD

The fact is, US troops can't ID cars until they stop at the checkpoint, and cars that break the rules must be assumed to be aggressive. I would rather see cars like this get shot up than a dozen soldiers blown up because they let up their guard because of criticism from people like you.

BTW aren't, not arnt

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Gary2880
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:58 am

Well I would rather see the soldiers die that want to be there and lay their life on the line than civilians having to die to protect themselves. e.g. The dead negotiator that covered the woman's body with his own to stop her getting hut shrapnel

anyway your novelty is wearing thin on me. planespotter ill put you on my rr list, nice to see im not the only one that thinks the yanks are dumb

[Edited 2005-03-05 22:05:37]
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Newark777
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 43):
Well I would rather see the soldiers die that want to be there and lay their life on the line than civilians having to die to protect themselves


Want to be there? Having to die to protect themselves? You are twisted words around again to prove your point. This is a case of people breaking the rules of the roadblock, and getting shot because their actions are perceived as a threat, in a warzone. There shouldn't be any surprise or shock over this, only surprise that the Italians were dumb enough to try to run an armed roadblock. They are the dumb ones in this whole incident.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
N5176Y
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 43):
nice to see im not the only one that thinks the yanks are dumb


Well, Sir, we don't have a very high opinion of you either.
 
Gary2880
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting Newark777 (reply 44):
This is a case of people breaking the rules of the roadblock, and getting shot because their actions are perceived as a threat, in a warzone.


i thought you won the war?

yes those dumb people running for freedom, to saftey, not surprised the italians didnt tell america they were trying to free her, it didnt help ken bigley when the iraqi government said they would give his captors their demands untill america stuck the nose in and decided the women the terrorists wanted wouldnt be freed, oh yes, and now hes dead. so i guess the italians had the right idea

good night.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 43):
nice to see im not the only one that thinks the yanks are dumb


If we yanks are so dumb why are we the worlds only super power?

If we Americans are so dumb why the hell are you using American products every day of your life?

Dude, I highly recommend you go join the jihad. It would do us all a favour.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
Gary2880
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Solarix (reply 47):
If we Americans are so dumb why the hell are you using American products every day of your life?


fair enough, like an anthill then. few smart ones then a couple of hundred thousand drones doing what there told...

Quoting Solarix (reply 47):
Dude, I highly recommend you go join the jihad. It would do us all a favour.


your either with us or against us attitude raises its ugly head again, 'you can have democracey - aslong as you agree with us'

Quoting Solarix (reply 47):
If we yanks are so dumb why are we the worlds only super power?


yeah its terrible, if only someone would kick your arse!
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
solarix
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RE: The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday

Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 48):
yeah its terrible, if only someone would kick your arse!


Somebody tried a couple times but we "dumb yanks" kicked their arse in return.

If the US were to disappear as a super power, who would you like to see replace them? China? England? Russia? France? India? Honduras? The UN?

Quoting Gary2880 (reply 48):
our either with us or against us attitude raises its ugly head again, 'you can have democracey - aslong as you agree with us'


You can disagree all you want with my country, but the way you do it is just extreme and scary. You openly call for the death of Americans and support the terrorist scum. That worries me.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus

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