aloges
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Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:41 am

I've got one simple suggestion for a gun law that might make a difference:

All citizens with a record of criminal violence, considerable* psychological issues or who have served a prison term of more than __* months are hereby banned from purchasing and owning firearms. For every purchase of a firearm, a licence which can be obtained by all citizens aged 21 or older after a background check is required.

Those who violate this law or any part of it are to be sentenced to prison terms no shorter than 18 months. Firearms owned by citizens who are banned from owning them can be turned in in exchange for compensation* at any police post. If the owner of the firearm wishes to keep it, it will have to be made unusable and proven unusable by the police.


*to be defined


Does that sound like something you could settle for?
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:46 am

Amen. The considerable psychological issues is a major one. Sometimes all people think about are robberies and dangerous criminals. They neglect to see all the instances terrible tragedies happened via depressed, mentally unstable people that should not have had access to firearms!! School shootings, workplace shootings, and most recently this horrific tragedy in my home of Brookfield, Wi. These are not your run of the mill criminals, these are your everyday people abused or with mental issues that just SNAP. To me that is the scariest of all.
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L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:47 am

Actually about 99% of what you suggest is already in place

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
All citizens with a record of criminal violence, considerable* psychological issues or who have served a prison term of more than __* months are hereby banned from purchasing and owning firearms.

Already in place, felons are not allowed to own firearms, ditto for domestic violence misdemeanors.

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
For every purchase of a firearm, a licence which can be obtained by all citizens aged 21 or older after a background check is required.

minimum purchasing age 18, pistols 21 and there is a background check already required.

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
Those who violate this law or any part of it are to be sentenced to prison terms no shorter than 18 months

Actually for the above there are already sentences, and I would add that in most states, commiting a crime with a firearm gains additional charges or longer punishments.

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
Firearms owned by citizens who are banned from owning them can be turned in in exchange for compensation* at any police post. If the owner of the firearm wishes to keep it, it will have to be made unusable and proven unusable by the police.

Actually refered to a "De-milling" and most police departments will do this, say if some widow shows up at the station with a Mp-40 that her husband brough back from world war II. Usually however these weapons are destroyed.
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agill
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:48 am

I doubt that. But why are you even concerned with american gunlaws. It really doesn't affect us over here.
 
Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:48 am

I could settle for this, and in fact, I'm all for it. These morons don't deserve to possess anything deadly ever again. The catch however, is that it won't prevent most of them from possessing guns. Many gun crimes are committed with stolen or smuggled guns, especially when gangs are involved, and these people will still have them and get them even if this is passed. It is a good idea, but enforcement would be near impossible.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 3):
I doubt that. But why are you even concerned with american gunlaws. It really doesn't affect us over here.

Because he is sharing his ideas and promoting discussion with the rest of us. Just because you don't care doesn't mean others foreign to the US don't.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:52 am

L-188, are those laws just not enforced or why do we hear so much about shootings, more shootings and even more shootings?

Quoting Agill (Reply 3):
It really doesn't affect us over here.

However, it does bother me.
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agill
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:53 am

Newark777: I can aggree with that, but we have had these discussions before and they aaaalways end up with a big fight and accusations about anti-americanism or anti-europism (if that is a word).

Aloges: And rereading my post I see it could be taken for quite rude, this was not my intent  Smile

[Edited 2005-03-16 00:57:19]
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:53 am

If you think the background check system is adequate in this country, you need to wake up and smell the roses.

Check that: wake up and smell the gunpowder.

Yes, if someone really wants a gun, they will have access to it in some way or another. The biggest effect I think this could have is it would help curb the sale to people with a history of mental problems that want the gun for defense etc- and then go on to use it for an unplanned sinister purpose.

[Edited 2005-03-16 00:57:00]
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aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 7):
they aaaalways end up with a big fight

I understand your concern, but I remember that a considerable part of my political threads managed to remain civil for a long time, so I thought this one might, too.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
Yes, if someone really wants a gun, they will have access to it in some way or another.

That's the same in Germany (and everywhere), however there seem to be more deterrants in my country than in the US.

Edit

Quoting Agill (Reply 7):
rereading my post I see it could be taken for quite rude, this was not my intent

Don't worry, no harm done!  Smile

[Edited 2005-03-16 00:59:09]
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L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
L-188, are those laws just not enforced or why do we hear so much about shootings, more shootings and even more shootings

If it bleeds it leads Algoes.

A few years ago there where a couple of instances where drunks ran their cars into large groups of people, killing many.

Didn't get near the coverage in the media, outside the towns where it happened.
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Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
The biggest effect I think this could have is it would help curb the sale to people with a history of mental problems that want the gun for defense etc- and then go on to use it for an unplanned sinister purpose.

That would be a step in the right direction. Too many times we hear after the fact that the killer had some kind of history of mental problems or mental disorders. If we can prevent these purchases, we can hopefully cut down some of the gun deaths. Even if one crime is prevented, the extra checks would be worth it.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Superfly
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:24 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
L-188, are those laws just not enforced or why do we hear so much about shootings, more shootings and even more shootings?

...because gun control laws simply don't work.


I am uneasy with the government haveing the right to decide who can and can't own a gun. Hell even I could be labeled 'enemy of the state' just because I disagree with Cheney/Bush/Rove/Halliburton & Co.
If this government has this amount of power, we can forget about haveing a revolution.  Sad
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aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:30 am

No no no, I'm not talking about the government deciding who can own a gun. I'm talking about legislation that's supposed to make your country safer. Governments change fast, laws don't.

As for "enemy of the state", the US is still a far cry from a revivial of McCarthyism. At least I hope so.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Superfly
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:45 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):
As for "enemy of the state", the US is still a far cry from a revivial of McCarthyism. At least I hope so.

Oh things are getting pretty scary over here under Dubya's regime.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:48 am

"Oh things are getting pretty scary over here under Dubya's regime."

Scarey compared to what? Neverland?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Oh things are getting pretty scary over here under Dubya's regime.

Must be a California thing. I feel quite OK over here in Jersey.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
L-188, are those laws just not enforced or why do we hear so much about shootings, more shootings and even more shootings?

Because no matter how you slice it, criminals get guns. Even in countries that don't allow them.
 
Superfly
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:56 am

MaverickM11 & Newark777:
If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention!
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Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention!

So if I'm not on your side, I just don't know what I am talking about?  Yeah sure

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:02 am

I'm in the middle here. I don't like the direction the country is headed under Bush, but do not feel it is as bad as you say it is Superfly. If these guys weren't paying attention...this is their chance. Bring the meat and examples if you want a prove a point.

[Edited 2005-03-16 02:02:51]
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 20):
Must be a California thing. I feel quite OK over here in Jersey.

Can't be that much a California thing either. My parents still live out there, they seem fine. Fine here in Wisconsin.
 
Superfly
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:04 am

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 24):
I don't like the direction the country is headed under Bush

Key word, "headed".
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Key word, "headed".

Quit being such a drama queen.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:09 am

Things headed in the wrong direction and the scary near McCarthyism that you described are a bit different.

Please provide some examples so you don't continue to sound like an angry liberal blowing hot air to these people!
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Superfly
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:11 am

JpetekYXMD80:
I'd be more than happy to provide you with examples but I'd rather stay on topic.
If you'd like, I could start a thread when I get home.
Deal?  Smile
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:13 am

Sounds good if you want to, I'll eagerly await!  Smile
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:25 am

Aloges, first, most all of this is already a "law".

Second, dosen't do any damn good.

As a few of us with some damn common sense have been saynig, OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER the bad guys don't give a hoot in hell about the law, they're going to have guns anyway.

They'd have guns with or without a law.

Good thing is - we got the weekly bullshit thread on US gun lawss out of the waY! Bad thing - there is always another bullshit thread on US gun laws right around the corner.  OHhh, Joy!

[Edited 2005-03-16 02:26:57]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:40 am

Actually German law is more lenient in some aspects:
In Germany, even if you were convicted for a felony, if you behaved yourself for ten years, and have a clean police record for this time since you were convicted, you can apply for a gun licence. The licencing authority though can send you to a medical-psychological exam, if they feel that you are not mentaly stable.

Jan

edit for typo

[Edited 2005-03-16 03:03:20]
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L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
In Germany, even if you wre convicted for a felony, if you behaved yourself for ten years, and have a clean police record for this time sinceyou were convicted, you can apply for a gun licence.

Not in this country. Short of having your record expunged, a felony is a no-go.

Doesn't matter if it is a violent one, or if you ripped off the company pension.
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Newark777
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:53 am

Looks like Martha Stewart won't be buying a gun anytime soon. Big grin

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 34):
Looks like Martha Stewart won't be buying a gun anytime soon.

Nope, not only not buying one, but be in possesion of one, or handling one.

All of which are now verboten because she is a felon.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:51 am

Concerning felonies, I checked e.g. that in Germany even as a convicted felon you still have your voting rights. You can lose your rights to run for office if you have been convicted for certain political crimes, like high treason or election fraud.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:01 pm

Yeah, state law varies somewhat in the US MD11Engineer. Some felonies will quash your voting rights, some won't.

Martha for example is now prohibited from sitting on the board of a publicly traded company because of her conviction, which is one of the reasons why you just know she will appeal.

You know MD11Engineer, earlier I mentioned widows bringing their late husbands war trophies to the cops. It was a few months back, but one old lady walked into a station with a couple of "Potato Mashers"

There have been a few similar stories here, old miner dies, kids are cleaning up the house, in the attic, basement or Garage, and come across some old dynamite the guy never got rid of.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:22 pm

Heard this story from my blasting instructor in the civvil defense school in Ahrweiler, Germany. He knew many of the blasting and demolitions technicians in the surrounding rock quarries. One day one of them passed away (an old man) and they went to pay the widow a visit. The widow came with a box she kept under the stairs and asked the instructor if he could use the contents, else she would throw it into the heating stove to get rid of it. He had a look into it and found it full of dynamite cartridges (already dripping of nitroglycerine due to being overstored), det cord cut offs and blasting caps (both electrical and safety fuse type).  wideeyed 
Apparently the old man, if he came back from a blasting job with leftovers in his truck, didn´t want to bother to drive out to his storage bunker in the middle of the forest and just dumped the stuff in the box under the stairs. Of course, highly illegal, law demands that the stuff will be stored in a proper storage bunker, away from inhabited areas.

I´m a moderator of a web forum dealing with the history of the Sten submachine gun (this is how I know American licenced machine gun collectors and gun laws), and a while ago a guy from the Netherlands approached us for some spare parts. Apparently he moved into a house in Oosterbeek near Arnhem (if you know Operation Marketgarden you´ll know what I´m talking about) and on redecorating it, he found a Sten Mk5 hidden 50 years before by a British Airborne soldier behind the rafters of his attic. He wanted to keep it (illegally) as a historical piece, because he didn´t want the cops to cut it up.
I also knew a guy in Germany, who bought a farm, and when removing some rotten wood paneling found a oilcloth wrapped Gewehr 98 (WW1 issue). He had a look at it, cleaned it (according to him the oil was a bit gummy), reoiled it and put it back, "You´ll never know when you might need a rifle!"

On the other hand I´ve heard about an American WW1 vet, who brought a Mauser Panzerbüchse together with afew anti tank rounds back after the war to California. It stayed in the family, illegally though after AP bullets were banned, until the greatgrandson showed it to a friend. The friend got drunk one night and bragged about it in a bar. Result: The cops came, confiscated the rifle and cut this very rare piece up, instead of giving it to a museum.  censored   banghead 

Also I know that at the end of WW2, thousands of MG 42 disappeared. It is highly suspected that quite a lot of WW2 ordnance is still hidden in German households, never to be used.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:47 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
(if you know Operation Marketgarden you´ll know what I´m talking about)

Yup, if you needed proof that Monty was a lousy general, that was it.

I think I remember you telling that Sten story.

I think if the Democrats ever gain the White House again, I might be forced to do something similar with either my K98, or M48 Mausers.

Those are the ones I have actually been able to stockpile some ammo for.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
I also knew a guy in Germany, who bought a farm, and when removing some rotten wood paneling found a oilcloth wrapped Gewehr 98 (WW1 issue). He had a look at it, cleaned it (according to him the oil was a bit gummy), reoiled it and put it back, "You´ll never know when you might need a rifle!"

Damm skippy, you never know when you might need a rifle Big grin

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
The cops came, confiscated the rifle and cut this very rare piece up, instead of giving it to a

Thats the problem with cops, they don't understand the historical significance of some items.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
As a few of us with some damn common sense have been saynig, OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER the bad guys don't give a hoot in hell about the law, they're going to have guns anyway.

"Common sense" and "bullshit threads"  Yeah sure aside, I have two points to counter your post:

1: Why do you think all criminals are complete outlaws who wouldn't hesitate a second to shoot and kill a person? Do you really believe someone who steals money from his company but doesn't break any other laws has the personality of a child abuser and murderer? Would he not hesitate to buy a gun "for safety of the family" if it was illegal just because he breaks another law? Would he not hesitate to add "murder" to the list of his crimes, with its only entry being "embezzlement"?

2: It's not only about limiting gun ownership, it's also about the punishment people can receive for illegal gun ownership. When it's simply illegal, but no one who gets caught ever gets seriously punished, how is a law going to deter others from illegal gun ownership?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 36):
Do you really believe someone who steals money from his company but doesn't break any other laws has the personality of a child abuser and murderer?

No.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 36):
Would he not hesitate to buy a gun "for safety of the family" if it was illegal just because he breaks another law?

Possibly.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 36):
Would he not hesitate to add "murder" to the list of his crimes, with its only entry being "embezzlement"?

Again, possibly.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 36):
It's not only about limiting gun ownership, it's also about the punishment people can receive for illegal gun ownership.

Agreed. Way too lenient.

Please see my post in the OTHER stupid gun ban thread running this week that says I'm all for stiffer laws and penalties - I am adamantly opposed to a BAN which will leave only the criminals with guns - and leave us no better off than we are right now.

As someone else said in the other stupid gun ban thread, it's probably way too late to change anything this country has done with guns and firearms ownership over the last couple hundred years - so better management of what we have is an option.

I agree, Aloges - laws are too lenient. I further disagree with a ban - it simply won't work.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:21 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 37):
I agree, Aloges - laws are too lenient. I further disagree with a ban - it simply won't work.

I don't agree with a ban either - I just want some people to be banned from owning guns and the rest to be more aware of the threat all guns pose. If they didn't no one but maybe hunters would bother buying them.

Please refrain from calling threads "stupid" just because you disagree with some of the points mentioned in them.
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BN747
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 37):
Please see my post in the OTHER stupid gun ban thread running this week that says I'm all for stiffer laws and penalties - I am adamantly opposed to a BAN which will leave only the criminals with guns - and leave us no better off than we are right now.

What's really STUPID is the quoted response.... the criminals are the only ones you want with guns (aside the cops). It clearly seperates the bad guys from the good ones... you know know who your target is.

I'd love to see these stats:

Gun deaths (Violent/Accidental) Versus Gun-aided foiled robbery/attempts.



BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:35 am

ALoges - what is stupid about these threads my friend is there are two running currently, and every week there is a new one. The result is always the same, there are no new arguments. If that isn't stupid, what is?

BN747, as for you  talktothehand 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
BN747
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 40):
ALoges - what is stupid about these threads my friend is there are two running currently, and every week there is a new one. The result is always the same, there are no new arguments. If that isn't stupid, what is?

My guess would be 'people' who have a closer affiliation' with the 'goings-on' of criminal usage of guns... and yet they don't have a clue as how to stem the problem. Not only that... they accept the status quo (which growing out of control) and they don't want to change a thing! And get mad as hell at anyone who proposes ideas antithetical to their own. Imagine if ...plane crash after plane crash... the manufacturer refuses to fix the problem and keeps saying 'It'll get better.. just give it time.. these new regulations will do the trick." They tinker with it and tinker with it but they never really fix the problem. Just how acceptable would that be? The 12,000 (Gun Deaths) who died last year (and will again this year) is the equivalent of 100 737 crashes a year or 30 A340s or 25 747s a year. Just how well would that float over.... like a lead ballon. The problemn with gun deaths is they doled out like nickles and dimes and pennies.... no one knows how staggering the aggragate is until it's presented to them in one big package. Medicine for change with a problem never taste good... but sometimes you have to swallow it to make conditions better.


How much you want to bet the 'gun problem' next year will eclipse this years... and the year after and after that....

So the question is where is the line that says enough is enough until drastic measures must now be implemented? When it does get to this point... the anecdote may be so severe .. more than your feelings get bent out of shape than when discussing a simple issue.

Like the War on Drugs/Terror/Gun Violence.... in this country, no one knows when it will end, no one wants to 'talk about it without getting mad' so they adopt the 'let's just see what happens' position and wait it out...

Brilliant.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 40):
ALoges - what is stupid about these threads my friend is there are two running currently, and every week there is a new one. The result is always the same, there are no new arguments. If that isn't stupid, what is?

Before the '04 Presidential election, we had zillions of "I love Bush/Kerry, f*ck Kerry/Bush!" threads. Were all of those stupid, too? Or just the pro-Kerry ones?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:55 pm

Ha Ha Ha - you presume, don't you that I'm a Bush voter . . . .

I'd hardly compare the presidential campaign of any country in the world to the issue of banning guns here.

You know the drill Aloges - every week someone starts a new "ban guns" thread, and everyone jumps in and says the same old crap over and over . . .

I'm quite sure the pre-election Screw Bush, Screw Kerry, Screw Everybody threads were no different. Hell, they're still no different except that RSmith isn't starting them anymore!

As I mentioned to BN747 - in the other thread on banning guns - come up with some new and innovative - it'll be worth talking about, Simply continuing to say "Ban Guns" and providing the same reasons week after week, day after day, is ridiculous.

I don't discount the problem, I discount rehashing the same rhetoric - on both sides of the argument - over and over.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 43):
I'm quite sure the pre-election Screw Bush, Screw Kerry, Screw Everybody threads were no different. Hell, they're still no different except that RSmith isn't starting them anymore!

LOL! How true...

BUT I never said anything about "ban everyone from owning guns", where in this thread did you read that? My suggestion for a gun law did not include a flat-out ban, just limitations imposed on a federal level. For the record, I do not support banning everyone from owning and using guns, I just want people to be aware of how easily guns can turn a law-abiding citizen into a murderer. It'd also be a good thing if people realised that a gun in the bedside table is not going to keep any burglars from braking into their houses. After all, following your very own logic, a thug is a thug...
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:45 pm

OK, then you and I are probably on the same sheet of music - just playing in different bars  Smile

Quoting Aloges (Reply 44):
I just want people to be aware of how easily guns can turn a law-abiding citizen into a murderer

Or a robber, or a vandal, or an slew of other type of thug. I concur. As I said - maybe this thread, maybe the other one - we cannot and will not ban guns completely. We can produce stronger laws that can make it harder to obtain a weapon . . . I also agreed our current laws aren't strong enough. I think the laws in Germany are less stringent than ours - can your felons not apply for and get a gun license after a period of time?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 44):
It'd also be a good thing if people realised that a gun in the bedside table is not going to keep any burglars from braking into their houses

Nope, not going to stop it - neither are the stickers on my windows announcing same - but the SOB will have a hell of a surprise if he/she wakes me up in the process of having a go at my house.

It's legal in Alaska (and Texas, and some other states) to shoot a burglar - period, no questions asked - and I'd be happy to oblige. (I looked up and posted the statute in one of the OTHER previous gun ban threads). Hoping not to stain the carpet. Of course, I'd do it properly, STOP, STOP (STOP a third time in a different language if I have time), hands, hands, let me see hands, on the floor on your knees, hands, hands, on your knees, cross your ankles, hands, cross your ankles. I have to do that - comes with the job. Any other schmuck can simply shoot and call it good.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
All citizens with a record of criminal violence, considerable* psychological issues or who have served a prison term of more than __* months are hereby banned from purchasing and owning firearms. For every purchase of a firearm, a licence which can be obtained by all citizens aged 21 or older after a background check is required.

As has been stated already, this law already exists but it is almost impossible to enforce. The instant background check misses a lot.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 30):
Looks like Martha Stewart won't be buying a gun anytime soon

I have heard it costs between $5,000 to $10,000 to expunge a felony, she has the bucks.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):
Not only that... they accept the status quo (which growing out of control) and they don't want to change a thing! And get mad as hell at anyone who proposes ideas antithetical to their own.

Someone, in showing their total cluelessness on the matter just proposed a law that is already on the books. It isn't that myself, L-188 and ANC all accept the status quo, we just realize that more laws aren't the answer.
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aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
can your felons not apply for and get a gun license after a period of time?

I don't know the laws as well as NoUFO and MD11Engineer do, but I can live with it if it's true. If a former felon who has served his sentence and built a new life wants to go out hunting, why not. People change, and that combined with background checks seems to be doing the trick nicely.

Quoting Captoveur (Reply 46):
As has been stated already, this law already exists but it is almost impossible to enforce. The instant background check misses a lot.

Why is it impossible to inforce? It's not one of those "don't lend your neighbour your hoover" laws from way back in time, it's a law that could save more lives than any ban on lawn darts ever will. Could it be that no one cares to enforce it? People get asked for licences all the time, why not check if they have one when they buy ammunition?
As for the background check, I think the problem is much the same. If governments can store information on every phone call you make for one year (as suggested in Germany right now), they should pretty well be able to store information on reported psychological problems, served sentences and other info, too. The reporting of severe psychological problems is pretty much automatic anyway, and there's a lot of reasons for that.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 47):
Could it be that no one cares to enforce it?

No, it is the simple fact there is NO way to enforce laws on weapon transfers between people, only on transfers from liscensed dealers. The transfers between two private citizens that have no paper attached to them are still 100% legal in all states if I am not mistaken, because even the socialists in congress know they couldn't even begin to enforce a law regarding those transfers.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 47):
People get asked for licences all the time, why not check if they have one when they buy ammunition?

Plenty of people make their own ammunition, it isn't hard and it is a great way to save money. So are you going to ask for a gun liscense next time someone buys lead bricks? Maybe for sheet brass for the real purists that make their own casings? Maybe gunpowder? Aside from the powder (which can also be homeade) most materials involved in ammunition manufacturing have lots of other uses.

The point is if someone wants to go around the law, which plenty of people can and will do they will do it. Plus you will have the people screaming about their civil rights when they have to sign their life away to buy a box of bullets, rightfully so. It amazes me how BN747 and his cronies bitch about Bush taking away civil liberties when they want to do the very same thing. I guess when it fits your agenda it isn't a big deal.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
aloges
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RE: Suggestion For A Federal US Gun Law

Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
No, it is the simple fact there is NO way to enforce laws on weapon transfers between people

So why are transfers of crack from one person to another illegal, and how is that law easier to enforce than one on transfers of guns? If it can limit the proliferation of guns in any way, a law should exist. I don't care if the drug dealers in some slum will buy guns anyway, I think dozens of millions of people owning a gun for "self defence" is dangerous and a bad idea. How many family fathers are actually able to defend their homes from burglars with that gun in their bedside table, and how many accidents, both lethal and non-lethal, happen each year with those guns?

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
the socialists in congress

 rotfl  You know, you'd sound so much more credible if you didin't spot "socialists" everywhere people are a tiny bit left of you, politically.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
So are you going to ask for a gun liscense next time someone buys lead bricks?

Nope, but asking when people buy ammunition is better than not asking at all. If you could earn a million for digging a hole or could earn a billion for moving the Rockies a mile to the west, which one would you pick?

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
The point is if someone wants to go around the law, which plenty of people can and will do they will do it.

The point is that I want less people to own guns! Do people not steal because it's illegal? They do. Can you stop something from happening by making it illegal? No way. But it is possible to slow or stop trends by making them illegal, which is all I'm talking about.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
It amazes me how BN747 and his cronies bitch about Bush taking away civil liberties when they want to do the very same thing. I guess when it fits your agenda it isn't a big deal.

Yeah right. It could be because freedom of speech doesn't kill, it saves lives. Or why did your President want to go all the way and bring it to Iraq? And what's the use of a gun, again? Right, shooting.
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