B747-437B
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US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:10 am

The Indian Government has expressed its displeasure in very strong language over the decision of the US State Department to deny a visa to Narendra Modi, Chief Minister of Gujarat state who was due to visit the United States in the upcoming week.

The United States State Department issued a statement explaining that Modi had been denied a diplomatic visa and that his existing business visa had been revoked because they believed his democratically elected government in Gujarat state should be classified as a "repressive and dictatorial regime", invoking the rarely used Section 214 of the immigration code holding Modi personally responsible for "severe violations of religious freedom" during the 2002 riots in Gujarat.

The US claims to have based this decision on the findings of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) in a report from May 2002. The NHRC however issued a statement that denied ever having named Modi as responsible for the riots; "No individual had been personally held responsible for the riots by the Commission."

The normally reserved Prime Minister Manmohan Singh used unusually strong language when he stated that "Our government has clearly pointed out our very deep concern and regret over the US decision to deny a visa to a constitutionally elected chief minister of a state of our union. I have instructed our external affairs ministry to call on the US ambassador and explain to them that we are greatly concerned and we greatly regret the decision that has been taken by the United States government. We have called for the urgent reconsideration of this decision. We do not believe that it is appropriate for the United States to use allegations or anything less than due legal process to make a subjective judgement to question the constitutional authority in India."

Chief Ministers of 5 other states in India issued a far more damning joint statement calling the US action "a slur on our Constitution, legal systems, democracy and the entire Indian diaspora worldwide". The added that "Denying (Modi) a visa is an act of diplomatic discourtesy of an unprecedented and most indefensible kind. There can be no place for such insolence in the relationship between any two countries, least of all between two democracies."

The leader of the BJP opposition in the Rajya Sabha went one step further when he declared that "We hold the US administration guilty of embittering the relations between the friendly people of India and America. The US government's action must be seen in the overall context of the vile, vicious and sustained propaganda carried on... to besmirch the image of India globally."

The Prime Minister's office also issued a statement that declared "We have observed that this uncalled for decision (can) be traced to a lack of sensitivity and due courtesy to an elected authority."

Modi himself said that "This is an insult to the Constitution of India and its people and a threat to the sovereignty and democratic traditions of the country".

Other Indian organisations issued statements that condemned the US hypocrisy in categorising Modi, the elected leader of a constitutionally secular government (albeit a self-proclaimed proponent of Hindu nationalism) as being an opponent of religious freedom while the US continues to support and encourage visits to the United States by Saudi Arabian leaders who demonstrate far less religious tolerance.

After huge public outcry and a large peaceful demonstration outside the US Embassy in Delhi, the Embassy issued a statement that it would "forward (the request) to the State Department to be re-assessed".
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:16 am

And where is Condi Rice at the moment? Entertaining our pissed off European friends or still trying to get Japan to buy American beef?

She and Dubya need to apologize - get the Diplomatic Visa issued - and then deal with the third or fourth level moron at State that made a stupid decision.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:18 am

What a mess... now he can't attend the Asian-American Hotel Owners conference in New York.  

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
get the Diplomatic Visa issued

A diplomatic visa for attending a trade fair?

[Edited 2005-03-19 16:19:56]
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 2):
A diplomatic visa for attending a trade fair?

That is the visa that was applied for and denied, and reading the original post, again, they should reinstate the business visa . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
himmat01
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:58 am

One cannot the blame the US state department. Even the Indian Supreme Court has described Modi as the "Nero of our times". NGOs in India have denounced his regime. Legal cases have been transferred to Maharashtra from Gujrat because the Supreme Court believes that trials in Gujrat maynot be free of prejudice.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
dl021
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:51 am

Seems that there are two sides to this story.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:05 am

She and Dubya need to apologize - get the Diplomatic Visa issued - and then deal with the third or fourth level moron at State that made a stupid decision.

They absolutely do not.
I laud both Ms Rice and President Bush.

The State department was perfectly within its right to deny Mr Modi a US visa. Back in the 90s the State department denied Jorge Haider, the ultra-right wing leader of Austria, a US visa under the same provision. At least Mr Haider was not an elected leader who sat by while thousands of his citizens were slaughtered under his watch.

Modi himself said that "This is an insult to the Constitution of India and its people and a threat to the sovereignty and democratic traditions of the country".

The reprehensible Mr Modi is not India, and India is not Mr Modi.
Both he and his followers should learn that simple fact.
A US visa is also NOT a basic right for a foreign national. It is entirely a discretionary act based on the laws and principles of the United States, principles and laws that Mr Modi is in clear violation of. He will never get a fair trial in India given his influence, but that doesn't mean that our government cannot express displeasure at his behaviour.

while the US continues to support and encourage visits to the United States by Saudi Arabian leaders who demonstrate far less religious tolerance.

Mr Modi is just a chief minister of a state, a state that depends on the United States in more ways than one (investments, foreign exchange repatriations, and immigration). He is NOT a member of the federal government in India. The US has denied visas to members of ultra right wing Wahabbi sects in Saudi Arabia. This is not merely religious freedom. This is an issue of a pogrom in Gujarat in which 2000 people were brutally slaughtered. Wretched as the Saudis may be, when was the last time 2000 Saudi citizens were massacred in 2 days of state sanctioned pogroms? Indian politicians and nationalist apologists should go back to the drawing board before they condemn the US under such losuy analogies. And if they're so incensed by Saudi Arabia, then India should suspend all foreign relations with the Saudis. Lets see if India has the guts to do that.

Our policies may not be perfect, but in this case the State department got it right. I hope that Condi Rice does NOT buckle under pressure from a thug who is using this visa denial to rally his followers and claim instant martyrdom. Both India - and Mr Modi's followers - are better off learning the hard fact that India needs the US and its massive capital outlays to India far more than it needs the brayings of a self-aggrandizing politician.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
I hope that Condi Rice does NOT buckle under pressure from a thug...

She's been working for one so I guess she knows what to expect. devil 
 
netdhaka
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:28 am

The reason for denial of visa is right. My understanding is the US is a strong enough country to stand by its decision without ANY ramifications what so ever. So, it will be interesting to see if they do stand by or not.
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:38 am

She's been working for one so I guess she knows what to expect.

Dubya may be a lot of things, but a thug he aint (and I am not one of these people who either voted for him, or who beats his drum).

So criticize the trumped up reasons to go to war with Iraq all you want, but as far as I know, Dubya never sat by as Governor of Texas while 2000 Texans were murdered, nor would he.

But in the end, the denial of a visa to a foreign national is a purely local matter. The US can deny a visa to who-so-ever it deems unworthy of one.

[Edited 2005-03-19 18:39:45]
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 2):
What a mess... now he can't attend the Asian-American Hotel Owners conference in New York.

ROFL! His last name is Modi, not Patel!

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 7):
She's been working for one so I guess she knows what to expect.

He he! That's a classic!
 
SFOMEX
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
. This is an issue of a pogrom in Gujarat in which 2000 people were brutally slaughtered.

Care to explain what happened? I don't really know about this incident.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting B747-437B (Thread starter):
Modi himself said that "This is an insult to the Constitution of India and its people and a threat to the sovereignty and democratic traditions of the country".

What the eff ever!  crazy 

Quoting Netdhaka (Reply 8):
The reason for denial of visa is right.

Now does that matter? Why should any country be obligated to allow anyone to swan in whenever they feel like it?

I don't know if reactions are similar in other countries, but I've always found it curious how in India people 'protest' everytime a country changes visa regulations and ups requirements. As if we have some sort of God-given right.

Any country should be able to deny anyone from entering and not have to give a reason.

I'd have the same reaction if Mother Teresa or Nelson Mandela were denied entry into any other country. Tough. Deal with it.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 9):
Dubya never sat by as Governor of Texas while 2000 Texans were murdered

So how many death sentences was it actually ? I forget...
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
So how many death sentences was it actually ? I forget...

131 death sentences. As ordered by a court of law and jury of the convicted's peers.
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
So how many death sentences was it actually ? I forget...

That's different isn't it? Supposedly it's a Texas Tenet, so it's okay.
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 15):
That's different isn't it? Supposedly it's a Texas Tenet, so it's okay.

Not OK... but how is what Bush did (or didn't do) any different that what the Indians and the French did (or didn't do) while 700,000 had their necks slit in Darfur?
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:42 am

Meanwhile... Hindu nationalists set fire to Pepsi warehouse to protest.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...ty/news/consumer_news/11180680.htm
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 16):
Not OK... but how is what Bush did (or didn't do) any different that what the Indians and the French did (or didn't do) while 700,000 had their necks slit in Darfur?

It's not; that was meant to be funny!

I don't know anything about Darfur to be able to say anything about it, but, unlike a few ANetters, I'm not even remotely condoning what happened in India. It was a national disgrace. That man should be drawn and quartered, metaphorically speaking.
 
B747-437B
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:54 am

Much like Manmohan Singh (who is no supporter of Narendra Modi during normal times), my disagreement is less with what the US did than how they went about doing it.

The best statement on the issue came from the Indian Express and pretty much sums up my feelings.

Quote:
When Narendra Modi talks democracy and human rights, even ‘‘violation of judicial norms’’ and ‘‘religious freedom’’, and he gets away with it, you know the plot has gone terribly astray somewhere. The US government accomplished a marvellous feat on Friday. It denied the Gujarat chief minister a diplomatic visa and revoked an already granted tourist visa, for being a government official who was ‘‘responsible for or directly carried out, at any time, particularly severe violations of religious freedom’’.

In the process, it allowed Modi not only to affect the genuine outrage of the persecuted but also to legitimately divert the spotlight from his own earned notoriety to US hypocrisies on issues of religious freedom.

The US would have done far better to let Modi travel to the country and then face protest groups and demonstrations of the kind that so embarrassingly greeted him in the UK not very long ago, instead of gifting him this opportunity to pose as martyr.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
mandala499
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:56 am

I wonder if the US would protest if a US State Governor is refused a visa to go to a country... If so then well, cry foul... if not then Modi should shut up.. perhaps? Hell I dunno! We got enough problems ourselves here... :P

Mandala499
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jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:58 am

So how many death sentences was it actually ? I forget...

Too many.

But here in the United States, whether our more urbane European friends like it or not, the death penalty IS legal as declared by the Supreme Court back in the 1970s.

There is a big difference between signing the death penalty for convicted murderers judged guilty by a Court of Law and sanctioning the slaughter of 2000 perfectly innocent men, women and children who were butchered in public in the worst manner possible. India too has the death penalty; India does not, however, have an extra-judicial system that allows political hooligans to engage in mass murder.

GWB is not a paragon of virtue, and our system of jurisprudence as it applies to the death penalty is far from perfect. But GWB is not the mastermind of state pogroms, as Mr Modi is. Don't compare apples and oranges here.

If India is so outraged at this denial of a US visa, they can protest by boycotting the US, its airlines, its products, its capital outlays, and its technologies. Mr Modi's supporters can all walk up to the US embassy and consulates in India and give up their own US visas in protest. Something tells me that none of these hypocrites will.
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gamps
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:00 am

It appears US thought except BJP all political parties will welcome the decision to revoke the visa. But surprisingly, every political party even Modi's bitter rivals in Communist, Congress parties are backing Modi and opposing the visa denial! Did some babu in US DOS underestimate India's democratic setup?
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:01 am

Ha ha! So Modi thinks he's blessed with sainthood? The irony is delicious!
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:03 am

The US would have done far better to let Modi travel to the country and then face protest groups and demonstrations of the kind that so embarrassingly greeted him in the UK not very long ago, instead of gifting him this opportunity to pose as martyr.

Perhaps, Sean.

But all the protests in the world don't deter people like Modi.

As long as his adoring Gujju fans in the US and India treat him like a demi-God and continue to ply him with money, why should he care if some human rights organizations make noisy protests outside his swanky Hotel in NYC?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 11):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
. This is an issue of a pogrom in Gujarat in which 2000 people were brutally slaughtered.

Care to explain what happened? I don't really know about this incident.

They are refering to a mass killing of Muslims by Hindu radicals, who are core voters of Mr. Modi´s Hindu radical party BJP.
From wikipedia:
" In 2001, following the loss of 2 assembly seats in the bypolls, Keshubhai Patel resigned and handed over power to Narendra Modi, a hard line pro-Hindutva profile. Narendra Modi is since then the Chief Minister of the state.

In February 2002 riots broke out following an alleged attack in Godhra on a train when transporting VHP activists returning from Ayodhya. According to several human rights organizations, the Hindutva movements, such as RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal, played an important part in organizing pogroms against the Muslim minority. Between February and August more than 2000 people, mostly Muslims, were killed and about 100 000 had to flee their homes. Furthermore, there were numerous claims from the Indian media that the BJP-led state government and the police not only failed to stop the riots, but actively encouraged them. Modi himself, explained the reasons behind the riots as an issue of "action and reaction".

He later dissolved the Legislative assembly and called for elections in December the same year. In those elections Modi, campaigning on a chauvinistic 'Gujarati Pride' platform, was voted back with an absolute majority (more then 67% of seats). However, the BJP suffered a set-back in the 2004 Lok Sabha polls. The BJP seats were reduced from 21 to 14. The Congress gained the 7 seats, increasing their numbers from 5 to 12."
The link is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujarat

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
all the protests in the world don't deter people like Modi

While the shameless people like Modi will probably never see the folly of their ways, there are plenty of decent people who unwittingly associate with him who would be educated/shamed by those protests and shy away from supporting him.

What benefit is served by denying Modi his visa? He will simply step up the rhetoric and as the Express noted, will be in the ridiculous position of being able to play the persecuted. This US policy of disassociation hasn't worked with Cuba, it hasn't worked with North Korea and it hasn't worked with Iran - why would it work with Gujarat?
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
trvyyz
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:33 am

Indian Govt. is spoiling it's relation with the US for Modi, it's so pathetic.
What is India going to gain by getting a visa for that guy?
Indian govt. should be spending their time on something more meaningful.
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:38 am

Still, it's reassuring - in some weird, twisted way - to see the Government stand up for someone in Opposition. Kind of like 'Sure he's a bastard, but he's our bastard'.
 
mdsh00
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:45 am

Im Gujju and I think Modi is an idiot. My family doesn't think too well of him either. I'm glad that his Visa was denied.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 29):
Im Gujju and I think Modi is an idiot.

Yes, quite. We aren't all adoring fans!
 
gamps
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:53 am

Indian Govt. is spoiling it's relation with the US for Modi, it's so pathetic.


I think Indian govt is upset more because of how "Note verbale" which accompanies the request for Diplomatic visa has been treated like trash. i.e.basic diplomatic norms have been flouted. Definitely not because of their love for Modi  Smile
 
mrniji
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:22 am

I actually agree and applaud with the decision of teh State Department. For maybe the first time, they referred to a document, which was produced in India and not the US - the report on Godhra. Modi is a criminal, who belongs in front of a court. His ass needs to be kicked at any instance

At the same time, India should be as consequent to these people who have initiated the Iraq war - here I agree with the opponents of the decision taken by the US..

All in all a good way to put issues, like the killings in 2002 - and the Iraq war, on the top agenda, using a clear language rather than using the art of lying alias diplomacy,,

A great success for NGOs, who have tried to keep these topics alive, like the genocide in Gujarat.. now I hope that India as as consequent to those who committed the genocide in Iraq
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 28):
Still, it's reassuring - in some weird, twisted way - to see the Government stand up for someone in Opposition. Kind of like 'Sure he's a bastard, but he's our bastard'.

Exactly. Given a choice, I'm quite certain that at least half the cabinet would have voted to deny Modi a visa too. That does not change the fact that the matter was handled very shabbily by the United States especially when they publicly stated that it was based on the NHRC report, a fact that NHRC, themselves no fan of Modi, subsequently denied.

Quoting Manmohan Singh:
"We do not believe that it is appropriate for the United States to use allegations or anything less than due legal process to make a subjective judgement to question the constitutional authority in India."
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:38 am

This US policy of disassociation hasn't worked with Cuba, it hasn't worked with North Korea and it hasn't worked with Iran - why would it work with Gujarat?

Because unlike Cuba, North Korea or Iran, India has extensive economic relations with the US, relations that are far more important to India becoming an economic powerhouse than Narendra Modi's "US visa maaro haq chhe" BS.

And who says the policy of dissociation hasn't worked with any of these countries? Castro's Cuba is still broke, North korea is ruled by a nutcase who has bankrupted and starved his people to near death (but for the largesse of the US that continues to send food to PyongYang), and Teheran's Mullahs can't even get a second-hand A300 from IC to beef up the rickety fleet of Iran Air (much to the chagrin of the Euros who'd sell anyone anything to make a quick buck).

If Ahmedabad wants to continue filling up those AI 744s to Newark, then Modi will soon become yesterday's news. Gujjus are superb A-1 businessmen. Once Modi becomes an embarassing albatross, they'll dump him like last week's dhokhlas.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:51 am

"We do not believe that it is appropriate for the United States to use allegations or anything less than due legal process to make a subjective judgement to question the constitutional authority in India."

And with due respect to Manmohan Singh (as saintly a politician as one can find on God's green earth), it is not appropriate for India to contest the denial of a US visa to someone that the US has determined to be associated with crimes against humanity. Note that under the cited law, one does not have to be tried or convicted, or be granted due legal process. Denial is based on mere implication, rather than any conclusive evidence. If Mr Singh is so concerned about due legal process, he can hurry up judicial reform in India so that people like Mr Modi get their day in Court.

Under the same law, the US has denied a visa to Kurt Waldheim and Jorge Haider. At the time, Waldheim's stature was far more elevated than Modi's can ever be. But a fascist thug is a fascist thug however fine his pedigree, and under our laws known fascist thugs don't get visas.

End of story.

If Modi wants a "phoren" vacation, he can go to Kuala Lumpur or Dubai. Lets see if he gets a visa for either of those desinations.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Banco
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 35):
Under the same law, the US has denied a visa to Kurt Waldheim and Jorge Haider. At the time, Waldheim's stature was far more elevated than Modi's can ever be. But a fascist thug is a fascist thug however fine his pedigree, and under our laws known fascist thugs don't get visas.

Just a question here, Jaysit. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have no difficulty getting visas to the US. Obviously, theirs aren't diplomatic ones, but is there not a slight contradiction here? I'm well aware that for a multitude of reasons denying visas to those two would probably cause far more trouble than allowing them in, but it would be fair to say that it isn't a blanket policy, would it not?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:08 am

Citizens of Ireland and Great Britain don't need visas to travel to the United States.
 
Banco
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 37):
Citizens of Ireland and Great Britain don't need visas to travel to the United States.

You do from Northern Ireland. It isn't part of the visa waiver scheme.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
N5176Y
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
You do from Northern Ireland. It isn't part of the visa waiver scheme.

Really? United Kingdom includes Great Britain and Northern Ireland and all citizens of the United Kingdom are exempt.  Confused Wow. You learn something every day.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:57 am

BTW, is this Mr. Modi the same Mr. Modi who ripped off Lufthansa with "Modiluft" ten years ago?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 40):
BTW, is this Mr. Modi the same Mr. Modi who ripped off Lufthansa with "Modiluft" ten years ago?

LOL! Not at all Jan... No connection at all.
 
mrniji
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 34):
and Teheran's Mullahs can't even get a second-hand A300 from IC to beef up the rickety fleet of Iran Air (much to the chagrin of the Euros who'd sell anyone anything to make a quick buck).

 bigthumbsup  !!! Great comment, and sad at the same time

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 35):
If Mr Singh is so concerned about due legal process, he can hurry up judicial reform in India so that people like Mr Modi get their day in Court.

I agree.. I was so disappointed that President's rule has not been imposed in Gujrat yet in ordet to proceed the inquiry against Modi personally in acc with the NHRC . This person needs to be dumped
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:57 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 34):
Teheran's Mullahs can't even get a second-hand A300 from IC to beef up the rickety fleet of Iran Air (much to the chagrin of the Euros who'd sell anyone anything to make a quick buck).

Not selling Iran Air pax aircraft will sure bring down the government...   The only one who really suffers from this situation is ordinary Iranian who may not give sh*t about his government but still has to fly falling-apart aircraft anyway. Just as lame policy as the Cuban embargo.
It's certainly interesting that the US seems to have no problem selling Boeings or even the most advanced Abramses to equally backward Saudi Arabia. No double standards here.   

If you want to talk about the EU's intent to sell arms to China, then its a completely different story (and another reason to vote against the constitution).

[Edited 2005-03-20 10:00:24]
 
jasepl
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:02 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 42):
I agree.. I was so disappointed that President's rule has not been imposed in Gujrat yet in ordet to proceed the inquiry against Modi personally in acc with the NHRC . This person needs to be dumped

Thete's no point in doing that now, is there? It should have been done at the time of the pogrom. Of course, his party was in power in Delhi then, and some even half congratulated him.
 
mrniji
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 44):
Thete's no point in doing that now, is there? It should have been done at the time of the pogrom. Of course, his party was in power in Delhi then, and some even half congratulated him.

I agree.. but some of the faschists at the center did prevent that, hence even a later point of time would have been OK.. after the release of the NHRC report, this should have happened
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Nimish
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa I

Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:23 pm

If the US was so disgusted with the 2002 Gujarat incidents, did they do anything at that time to express their displeasure? I'm surprised that they woke up at this stage, when it's evident that NM had a valid US B1/B2 visa for a long while now. I mean, they could/should have cancelled his visa right after the riots.

This sounds like a bit of opportunism from the US side (I don't know why though).

Of course NM's actions during and after Godhra were sickening, and he did not mince words when he made statements to the effect that "They (Muslims) got what they deserved" or similar. A shame to India, and especially to the state Mahatma Gandhi belonged. I wish the NGOs would work to educate the global gujju on the mess in their beloved state during Godhra, so the Global Gujju can call a spade a spade, and not invite the NMs of the world to their global gatherings.
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Yu138086
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:06 am

I really dont feel this is such a pressing issue that will disrupt/impede the strong trade flows between the two countries. Is this minister a populist? He tought going to the press would help his cause? Seems like there are some political "stains" associated with this man - reason enough to deny and revoke. A purely political decision excersized by a soverign to uphold its immigration laws. What's the harm done? This is nothing new and has happened to many governemt officials before who sought entry to countries other than the USA.
 
trvyyz
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 46):
This sounds like a bit of opportunism from the US side (I don't know why though).

I still don't understand what the US has done wrong. They denied visa to an insane man, they cannot entertain guys with such a background, they don't care if he's a minister. I wonder what the world will think of the people for having re-elected him. It is a shame.
US didn't have to take action in the past because it was none of their business and didn't have time for this crap, but now it the matter of US visa and it is their business NOW.

Indian Govt. should stop crying over such silly issues and focus on the future.
 
jaysit
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RE: US - India Relations Reach New Low Over Visa Issue

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:23 am

It's certainly interesting that the US seems to have no problem selling Boeings or even the most advanced Abramses to equally backward Saudi Arabia. No double standards here.

Actually Iran is far less "backward" than Saudi Arabia is. Right wing mullahs or not, Iranian women have the right to vote, to run for office, etc. The anti-Iran policy of the US is not based on the relative progressiveness of one nation versus another.

Iran has an official state policy of antagonizing the United States, officially funding all sorts of terrorist organizations, not to mention the embassy hostage fiasco from 1980. The Saudi government, phillistine as it may be, does not have an anti-US plank as part of its foreign policy (even though private Saudi citizens are probably engaging in the worst form of global terrorism there is).

In the end, its all an issue of politics. Trying to find a single standard exercised against India or Cuba or Iran is futile.
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