MaverickM11
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Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:36 pm

I knew it still existed in the Sudan but I was surprised it was so much more widespread:

http://www.economist.com/agenda/disp...29%280%2FQ%21%3F%26%20%40%21%5C%0A

"Anti-Slavery International, a London-based human rights group, estimates that 43,000 slaves are held in Niger"

"Niger is far from alone. Its class-based form of slavery exists in neighbouring Chad, Mali and Mauritania, too. In Mauritania, estimates SOS Esclaves, another anti-slavery campaigner, 40% of the population are slaves or ex-slaves"

"In Sudan, too, slavery is widespread. Some 14,000 people were abducted and forced into slavery during the country’s two-decade-long civil war between the Arab-run government in Khartoum and blacks in the south."
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Mir
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:02 pm

This is really no surprise. Slavery is EVERYWHERE (and yes, that includes rich countries like the US and Europe - though it takes different forms there). There are far too many instances to list them all, but be assured that there is some form of slavery going on in large numbers in pretty much all of Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

Unfortunately, much of it is tacitly supported by the US and Europe, for political purposes.

During my time in Model UN, I had to discuss slavery, child trafficking, etc. quite a few times, and it's amazing how widespread it is.

-Mir
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NoUFO
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:04 am

We have many Turkish grocers here in Berlin, and hardly one of them renounces to "employ" their own kids.
I mean, it's OK if they help here and then but for many of them it appears to be kind of a full time job that adds up to school - and child labour is prohibited by law.
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soups
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:34 am

i feel sorry for indians/sri lankan working as maids in lebanon and other gulf states, they are abused a lot
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SlamClick
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Slavery is EVERYWHERE (and yes, that includes rich countries like the US and Europe - though it takes different forms there).

So you make a statement like that and I am wondering - can you give me an example in the US?

Talking about slavery here. Not unlawful restraint, like a person under the control of a kidnapper. Slavery.

Example?
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5NEOO
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:36 am

http://www.iabolish.com/slavery_today.htm

A decent website that provides a synopsis of this worldwide problem.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
dl021
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
can you give me an example in the US?

To briefly answer this question the idea of slavery can include forced indentured servitude such as that endured by illegal immigrants who are forced to take sweat jobs by their coyotes (and whatever you call the guys who bring girls over from China to work in "happy ending spas").

These people get here thinking they will be coming to a job that will get them citizenship etc, and owing thousands to the people that brought them and they have to work it off....and it ain't like they can safely quit.

There are cases where Filipina women who were sent to Saudi and other places to work as maids and servants are brought here and treated as slaves by their "employers".

Slavery in its purest form still exists in some places such as Mali and the Sudan where there are actually slave auctions in little dust pits off the salt road.

HBO recently did a story on Real Sports about a ring of camel jockey training camps where small children were purchased from Bangladesh and other 3rd world nations to serve as jockeys in the Sultans camel races in the UAE and Saudi. The story was pretty horrific, as the masters in the camps used these small boys in vile and despicable ways. The very rich camel owners, who build swimming pools and airconditioned stables for their camels actually allow these boys to be kept by the "trainers" in squalid camps with no sanitation and no real medical care. They either turn a blind eye to it or they lie, deny and counteraccuse....typical reactions for this part of the world when uncivilized and medieval habits are brought up to scrutiny by the rest of the world.

Heres a link to the story where one of the owners, who was also one of the biggest horseflesh purchasers in Kentucky, was indicted.
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/sports/9992168.htm

[Edited 2005-03-27 19:20:45]
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jaysit
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:25 am

i feel sorry for indians/sri lankan working as maids in lebanon and other gulf states, they are abused a lot.

True.
But they get wages. That is different from slavery.
As far as slavery in the US goes, there have been many incidents of Chinese human trafficking, Russian human trafficking (mostly young women who are then forcibly put into prostitution rings) right here in the US. Its completely illegal, but it happens.
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SlamClick
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:27 am

I have another question on this topic.

During the tsunami coverage it was often mentioned that children were being 'disappeared' from the stricken areas, and all the reporters made it plain that it was well-understood what had happened to them. My questions are:

Why would NOT ONE reporter ever comment on the possible destination of kidnapped children?
Is there a conspiracy of silence at work here?
Where DID these children end up?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:10 am

"Slavery is EVERYWHERE (and yes, that includes rich countries like the US and Europe - though it takes different forms there)."

The major difference is that in the US and EU, it's completely illegal.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jaysit
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:43 am

I remember a few years ago there was a big scandal in the DC area involving a Saudi princess who lived in a gigantic McMansion here. She had hired a Filipino woman as a maid and then pretty much enslaved her here, paid her no wages, withheld her passport and regularly beat the Sh*t out of her. The Princess had a diplomatic passport, so it took the authorities awhile to be able to prosecute her. The Saudi Embassy, as expected, intervened on behalf of the ghastly Princess. Eventually she was sent back to Saudi Arabia, and the maid settled out of Court for some undisclosed sum.
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Mir
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:57 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
The major difference is that in the US and EU, it's completely illegal.

True, but it still happens. I can't, and won't, say that the US is pro-slavery just because slavery exists there, but I can say that we don't devote enough to getting rid of it.

Most countries have outlawed slavery. But those with more corrupt governments continue to look the other way when it happens in their own country. And the fact is that the West looks the other way as well most of the time because of politics.

EDIT: I should add that no government in the world will outwardly say that they support slavery. They will all agree that slavery is bad. But when the issue of actually dealing with the problem comes up, most countries will change the subject of conversation. That is where the real problem lies.

-Mir

[Edited 2005-03-28 00:01:33]
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
BN747
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
The major difference is that in the US and EU, it's completely illegal.

Which makes even that much more shameful and should irk you more than how you began this thread... but oddly it doesn't. Because if it did... you would have spoken about 'it' instead.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:22 pm

"But those with more corrupt governments continue to look the other way when it happens in their own country."

I think the corrupt government helps but it's the fact that it's an ordinary part of society in a lot of African countries that's the problem.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
The major difference is that in the US and EU, it's completely illegal.

Slavery has been and is illegal everywhere. The major difference is that the US and EU have more resources to fight the problem, than other third world countries.

How can the Sudanese or the Mauritanian government effectively control slavery when they aren't even in full control of their countries, to begin with? And there are other "rich" countries like Saudi Arabia who consider it their birthright to be able to exploit or enslave anyone who turns up there for work.

At the end of the day, slavery exsists because there are people benefitting from it.
Sad, but true.

[Edited 2005-03-28 13:37:03]
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slider
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:23 am

I wonder what Kofi Annan thinks about it. I wonder what the UN is doing about it.

 Yeah sure
 
BN747
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
I think the corrupt government helps but it's the fact that it's an ordinary part of society in a lot of African countries that's the problem.

When on Earth????... did you ever start being concerned about slavery 1) anywhere??? 2) Or goings-on in Africa at all? Every post I've seen you make discussing either issue has been borderline supportive of the offending party. And the dumbass statement you made above proves you lack of understanding the subject or your determination to learn more!

White slavery is far more lucrative than the trading of any other skin color. Why? Mainly for the 'pursuit' of 'white women' American (usually more of their free will to sell their ass in places like Japan/Asia -- then once there-- becoming the property of the local sophisticated pimps/gangs. Eastern European women being literally forced into for as long as they are deemed 'useful.' And the exact opposite of illegal chinese,laotian and others brought here to the US.

.... so what's your concern? Or was this poorly disguised 'bash Africa' attempt? Your piss poor and feigning of 'authentic interest' indicates the latter.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
atmx2000
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):
White slavery is far more lucrative than the trading of any other skin color.

While there is a modern usage that has a racial component to it, white slavery has generally been applied to women of any race being forced into prostitution.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:03 am

"I wonder what the UN is doing about it"

I bet I can guess.

"How can the Sudanese or the Mauritanian government effectively control slavery when they aren't even in full control of their countries, to begin with?"

They can't but in most cases, like the Sudan, they don't even try. And that combined with the living conditions in most of the countries named creates incentives to get into slavery, so to speak. What surprised me was Mali's involvement, which is relatively stable and peaceful. 40% of the population in Mali are slaves or ex-slaves? That means it's no longer a dirty secret affecting a small portion of the population; it's literally half of society!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Slavery Alive And Well In Africa

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:36 am

" What surprised me was Mali's involvement, which is relatively stable and peaceful"

Of course right after saying that there's a minor football related skirmish in Bamako...but who hasn't dealt with that?

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/gabarits...e.asp?art_cle=AFP94915footbokamab0
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