prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:56 am

Now that Terri Schiavo has died - or, more accurately, now that her body has died - the question remains as to why Michael Schiavo fought so doggedly for removal of the feeding tube. I don't for a minute question the fact that he sincerely believed that Terri had no consciousness remaining and was without any hope of recovery. He also asserted only those rights which he had under Florida law. Even so, under the circumstances, I cannot understand why he didn't just let Terri's parents take over her guardianship and try to provide her with some type of therapy.
Millions of people now consider Michael Schiavo a murderer, and no doubt there are some who'd like to murder him. He'll have to be concerned about his safety, and the safety of his partner and children. At the very minimum, he's lost any semblance of privacy that he once had, and it may take years before things quiet down. If he had agreed to the transfer of guardianship, none of this would have happened. It's not as if he had any financial motive in hastening Terri's (physical) death, the malpractice settlement having been long since spent, and I would highly doubt he particularly cared that keeping Terri's body alive cost the taxpayers $80,000 a year. Compassion for Terri sounds logical but doesn't hold up under review; if Michael believed that Terri had no higher brain function, as seems pretty much uncontrovertable, she wasn't suffering from being sustained on the feeding tube.
In short, Michael Schiavo's actions were legal, and at least in my opinion morally correct, but from a sheerly practical viewpoint they didn't make sense. I'm left with the impression that Michael was more stubborn than logical.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:01 am

He is a man of his word..he kept the word of his wife. That was the motive. If he wanted an easy way out he would have given the parents the right to keep on abusing their daughter like they wanted to.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 1):

He is a man of his word..he kept the word of his wife. That was the motive. If he wanted an easy way out he would have given the parents the right to keep on abusing their daughter like they wanted to.

My only problem with that is when he went to court to get his money years back he said that the reason for the amount was that he needed to give her care for the next 50 years or so, because that is how long she would live. Also since then he has taken a common law wife and has had 2 children with her. The last time I checked having two spouses is illegal in this county, thus negating one of the marriages. The right decision may have been made but I do not see why she had to die so quickly when there were so many unanswered questions dealing with this case.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:16 am

He waited 5 years before he became invloved with another woman...thats a long time since his wife was brain dead!

The bottom line, he kept the word of his wife. The parents were abusing their daughter.

She has been dead now 3 hours, wonder how many law suits have been filed
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:20 am

If they're Christians, then letting her die would be mercy. It is understanding that the soul cannot be separated from the body except through death. Thus, even if she is brain-damaged and cannot function, she is still very much alive. But now in death, she will go to her eternal reward and not be lying in bed for years at a time.

I think that his main motive would be closure, followed by wanting to keep her wishes not to be kept alive on life support for over a decade.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:26 am

But according to any Dr. that wasn't under Mike's payrole, Terry was far from brain dead, just brain damaged. Before she went into the Hospice she was eating on her own and semi communicating. It is only after she was denied rehab by her husbands order did she slip into the condition we all saw her in. Like I said before something did'nt smell right about this. I am not saying old Mikey wasn't right but too many questions were left unansered.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Money.
Made from jets!
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:47 am

You're wrong, Jdwfloyd. The court appointed physicians agreed that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state. She was not denied rehab by her husband. She spent several years after her cardiac arrest being evaluated and given therapy in multiple facilities around the U.S. Michael should not be blamed for Terri's parents' inability to accept their daughter's condition. The few physicians who've disputed her diagnosis never even examined her directly. They've only looked at tapes of her, and that's not sufficient for them to make a diagnosis.

No, she was not technically brain dead. Brain death is defined as "electrocerebral silence", which means that an electroencephalogram shows no evidence of brain activity. In the setting of technical brain death, even the brainstem is no longer functioning, and the person cannot breathe without mechanical ventilation. In the setting of brain death, there is little controversy about discontinuing life support. Terri's brainstem still functioned, which is why she could breathe independently, but all the higher functions of her brain had ceased. The Schindlers' claims that she tried to talk, interact, etc., are the claims of desperate people who don't understand the condition, and/or are in complete denial.

From the standpoints of compassion, reason, AND faith, Michael Schiavo's actions were justified, and I believe the vast majority of ethicists would support him.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
But according to any Dr. that wasn't under Mike's payrole, Terry was far from brain dead, just brain damaged.

Not true. In fact, no doctors reached that conclusion except a recent one commissioned by the parents with strong ties to the right to life movement.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
Before she went into the Hospice she was eating on her own and semi communicating.

No, she wasn't. Ever.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money

And what money did he get?

Come on people. If he just wanted to be clean of her, her parents had been standing by for 10 years to take over. They had the money and desire to support her.

She wanted to die. She had no desire to live 15 years of her life like this. He wanted her to have what she wanted.

I can only hope my partner is so diligent if something like this happens to me.

N
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money.

Which is why he turned down the $10 million he was offered if he would sign over guardianship to her parents, right? Consider that there is no money. The money from the malpractice case is gone and the money from the life insurance will be gone soon to pay off her care. When Terri Schiavo died she was on Medicaid - not a lot of money there.

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
Even so, under the circumstances, I cannot understand why he didn't just let Terri's parents take over her guardianship and try to provide her with some type of therapy.

PROSA, because he believed Terry's parents would only prolong Terry's life for the sole purpose of the fact that they couldn't cope with the notion of losing their daughter. Read this excerpt from the court appointed guardian ad litem describing his interview with the Schindlers:

Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive. Throughout the course of the litigation, deposition and trial testimony by members of the Schindler family voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Theresa alive at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb, and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open heart surgery. There was additional, difficult testimony that appeared to establish that despite the sad and undesirable condition of Theresa, the parents still derived joy from having her alive, even if Theresa might not be at all aware of her environment given the persistent vegetative state. Within the testimony, as part of the hypotheticals presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it.

Think about this...they would hack off all of her limbs to ensure her survival - not her recovery, but just to maintain her at the level she was, they would have had her limbs amputated. At what point would they have stopped, left well enough alone, and let her pass?
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
Brain death is defined as "electrocerebral silence", which means that an electroencephalogram shows no evidence of brain activity.

The last full-scale diagnosis she had was in 1994

Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
The Schindlers' claims that she tried to talk, interact, etc., are the claims of desperate people who don't understand the condition, and/or are in complete denial.

And what are you basing this on?
Made from jets!
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:58 am

Court awarded nice sum of money for doctors negligence in her case. He took his part few years ago and made his life with a new woman.

Now he will take also Terry's part.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9052
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
$80,000 a year.

That's $80,000 a month.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 2):
Also since then he has taken a common law wife and has had 2 children with her. The last time I checked having two spouses is illegal in this county, thus negating one of the marriages

Commonlaw is far different than "law."

What would you JD? Sit around and jerk your carrot for the next 50 years hoping for a miracle, or try to move on and get on with things? Get a grip.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money.

Even if so, he's entitled to every last penny. The loss of her and her income plus the initial fees from her heart attack and then into the hospice care center.....WEREN'T CHEAP.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
And what money did he get?

The book deal he's going to get.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 9):
The money from the malpractice case is gone and the money from the life insurance will be gone soon to pay off her care


Wrong, Velos is working pro-bono on this case. Micheal Shaivo will get a large portion of the life insurance, in which he will most like give to his wife so the gov't can't touch it.
Made from jets!
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:03 am

Jetjack...People do not recover from a persistent vegetative state, regardless of what some of the Schindlers and their supporters claim. That she was diagnosed repeatedly with PVS is still valid, even if the last official evaluation was in 1994. This is a condition from which a person does not recover.

I base my statement about the Schindlers on my own, direct, professional observation of patients with PVS over the years. I have seen family members desperate for some evidence of interaction claim that non-purposeful reflexes, noises, etc. were attempts at communication. Because the physicians who've evaluated Terri over the years concurred on her diagnosis, I am confident in my assessment.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
From the standpoints of compassion, reason, AND faith, Michael Schiavo's actions were justified, and I believe the vast majority of ethicists would support him


So why don't we just pull the feeding tube on the Pope while we're talking about faith. The bottom line is, that he went and had kids and built a life with another woman, hadn't been to see her since 1995. I'm extremely skeptical this guy is sincere about his wife best wishes and more concerned about his own.
Made from jets!
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 14):
Jetjack...People do not recover from a persistent vegetative state,

Sometimes they do. There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 13):
Wrong, Velos is working pro-bono on this case. Micheal Shaivo will get a large portion of the life insurance,

Again, why not just take the $10 million and run?
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12422
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:07 am

Some have pointed out that Michael Schiavo did a 180 on keeping Terri alive after receiving the malpractice claim judgment of about $300,000 for him and about $700,000 in trust for Terri. At or about that time is when the split as to the continued artifical feeding support occured between him and the parents occured. Until the judgement, he apparently did try to help Terri in various ways, actively gave here attention on a regular basis, including attempts to use unconventional and experimental therapies. Perhaps the failure of those and other therapies, the inability to cope with her condition, his belief that she expressed not wanting extensive life support and perhaps expressing his desires for what he would want done if it were him, then finally getting some compensation from the doctors, all led to the decisions to use his power of guardianship to remove the feeding tube life support.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 15):
The bottom line is, that he went and had kids and built a life with another woman,

Which the Schindler Family actually encouraged, going so far as to meet his lover. As for "not being to visit her since '95..." proof?

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

You're confusing "coma" with a PVS. One doesn't just "wake up" when they're missing a sizeable chunk of their cerebral cortex.

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state

Legally there wasn't and medically there wasn't. The only doctors who raised doubts were ones who viewed short segments of videotape and who hadn't done a full eval of Schiavo - like Bill Frist for instance. Speaking of, I need to send him a video of a mole I have so he can determine if its cancerous....
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 14):
Because the physicians who've evaluated Terri over the years concurred on her diagnosis, I am confident in my assessment

And the medical professionals that the Schindlers hired, didn't concurr with the professionals that Shiavo has hired. You can find anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. All it takes is money. Only another medical professional can disagree with it.
Made from jets!
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
You can find anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. All it takes is money. Only another medical professional can disagree with it.

And the physician appointed by the Court in the initial guardianship hearing, perhaps the most neutral party involved in the mess, concurred with Schiavo's doctors.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):
Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state

Legally there wasn't and medically there wasn't.

Legally there wasn't - because the judge disallowed all evidence contrary to his point of view.

Medically - there were many. Videotapes showing her head following a balloon, audio tape with responses to her father. The problem was that her "husband" and the judge did now allow for full examination by independent doctors.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
Videotapes showing her head following a balloon

Ah the infamous videotape. Shame you didn't see the whole length of it, as apparently they tried repeated times to get her eyes to follow the balloon and only succeeded once. According to the court:

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
The problem was that her "husband" and the judge did now allow for full examination by independent doctors.

Actually, the lynchpin member of the 5 doctor panel who examined Schiavo was an "independent doctor" who had been appointed by the court.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 10):
And what are you basing this on?

Facts?

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

Not after 15 years there arent. Coma patients and vegetables are completely different, as well.

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state.

No, there weren't. Not by anybody but her parents.

N
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:26 am

Jetjack74--I am another medical professional. I've been board-certified in internal medicine since 1988. I'm not a jack-leg making an assessment on the basis of ignorant emotion, as many have done in this case. You are clinging to a false assumption. The court appointed physicians, who were not chosen by either Michael Schiavo or the Schindlers, concurred 100% on the diagnosis of PVS.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):
Which the Schindler Family actually encouraged, going so far as to meet his lover.

Tha't hearsay. That's what Shaivo said on Larry King, not the Schindlers.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):
As for "not being to visit her since '95..." proof?

Terri's sister and brother CNN, that's who.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 21):
And the physician appointed by the Court in the initial guardianship hearing, perhaps the most neutral party involved in the mess, concurred with Schiavo's doctors

But nobody can be sure, the courts denied to hear it after it was found that the last diagnosis was found to be less than solid.
Made from jets!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13497
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:35 am

So why don't we just pull the feeding tube on the Pope while we're talking about faith.

The phrase "glittering jewel of colossal ignorance" comes screaming to mind when I think of how best to describe you after your aforementioned post.  sarcastic 

First off, the Pope is not in a persistent vegetative state. He's conscious, he's alert, and he is cognizant of his situation and surroundings.

Second, the Pope DOES have a living will - something Mrs. Schiavo lacked:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7344152/


This indicates he would want to be kept alive by artificial means even if he fell into a coma or a persistent vegetative state, such as the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in the United States whose feeding tubes have been removed after 15 years.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 3):
He waited 5 years before he became invloved with another woman...thats a long time since his wife was brain dead!

Incorrect. He was in his 2nd longer relationship 2 years after Terri had her cardiac arrest. 5 years after he met his current girlfriend (I am not sure about the spouse bit).

D.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 25):
You are clinging to a false assumption. The court appointed physicians, who were not chosen by either Michael Schiavo or the Schindlers, concurred 100% on the diagnosis of PVS.

The state found evidence that the diagnosis could be flawed. If she was in a PVS and can't feel or react to anything, than why is she given morphine? If i'm clinging to anything, it's the fact that a human life is a human life and whole damn case is based on he said, she said garbage. This guy goes and boff's another woman, whom he can't marry because he is still married to Terri. Put yourself in the shoes of the Schindlers. Shiavo is trying to take the daughter that they raised from childhood away from them, and you still feel that it's ethical to kill a woman based on what this guy says they discussed. If it was that damn important to her, then why did she not get a living will?

Quoting Dvk (Reply 25):
not a jack-leg making an assessment on the basis of ignorant emotion, as many have done in this case

I never said you were.
Made from jets!
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
She wanted to die. She had no desire to live 15 years of her life like this. He wanted her to have what she wanted.

She did? How do you know? Because Michael said it? One of his former girlfriends made an affidavit stating that regarding her wishes he told her "What do I know, we never talked about it - we were 25!". She said so? When and where?.

D.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 13):
Wrong, Velos is working pro-bono on this case. Micheal Shaivo will get a large portion of the life insurance, in which he will most like give to his wife so the gov't can't touch it.

Maybe George Felos worked pro-bono on this case, but he sacked in $396,000 of Terri's money back when Michael Schiavo sued the doctors ...

D.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:47 am

He was her HUSBAND. This isn't petty childish crap that happens between friends.

The decision was his. He made it.

N
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
Some have pointed out that Michael Schiavo did a 180 on keeping Terri alive after receiving the malpractice claim judgment of about $300,000 for him and about $700,000 in trust for Terri

Where did you hear that? From what I've read, he won $1,200,000 and approximately $550,000 were spent by the end of 1993 - mostly lawyer bills, some $55,000 went for settling old debts and Michael Schiavo bought a gold coloured Acura with it.

D.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 32):
He was her HUSBAND. This isn't petty childish crap that happens between friends.

The decision was his. He made it.

So now it wasn't Terri who wanted to die, but it was Michael who wanted her to die?

D.

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:50:57]
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 27):
The phrase "glittering jewel of colossal ignorance" comes screaming to mind when I think of how best to describe you after your aforementioned post.

So starving someone that you feel is not quite there, is some kind of heroic act? It seems the "right to die" folks want to yank the cord from every suspected invalid out there that doesn't measure up to some code of conciousness. But they would like to pull plug on the Pope regardless. If something screaming in your mind, then you may want to seek some professional help, before some crackpot declares you braindead.

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:56:38]
Made from jets!
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 32):
He was her HUSBAND. This isn't petty childish crap that happens between friends.

That's exactly what it is, if this alledged conversation ever really took place. That's why only a living will could ever justify this, dude!
Made from jets!
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 24):
Facts?

Sums it up right there.
Made from jets!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:01 am

I would want my partner to make these sorts of decisions on my behalf, which is how the legal "institution of marriage" in this country works.

If Michael Schiavo says she would have wanted to die, there is not a single person anywhere that could refute it.

N
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:09 am

The state found evidence that the diagnosis could be flawed. If she was in a PVS and can't feel or react to anything, than why is she given morphine?

Doctors routinely give small amounts of morphine to terminally ill dying patients who are in a PVS, to mollify their family members present at their death bed. This is a fairly well-known medical custom, performed more as a palliative for the families, than for the patient.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting Damirc (Reply 34):
So now it wasn't Terri who wanted to die, but it was Michael who wanted her to die?

I think it is obvious. There was absolutely no evidence that she wanted to die.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:19 am

Again, what possible motivation could he have?

You don't need evidence, except to the contrary. He's her husband, his word on her wishes is law.

Period.

N
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 41):
Again, what possible motivation could he have?

Problem being the fact that Terri wanted to divorce him and the day before (February 24th) they were fighting all day - it's all too convenient for her to suffer a cardiac arrest at 4 am on February 25th in the morning.

And yeah, got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ... Interested?

D.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Damirc (Reply 42):

Problem being the fact that Terri wanted to divorce him and the day before (February 24th) they were fighting all day - it's all too convenient for her to suffer a cardiac arrest at 4 am on February 25th in the morning.

And where the hell did that come from?

That is such a random and ridiculous story. Conspiracy theorists of the world unite! You're the one that should be shopping oceanfront property in Arizona.

N
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:28 am

Yeah, too convenient that she suffered cardiac arrest from documented hypokalemia (low potassium)...Sorry, but her husband couldn't make Terri's potassium drop to a life threatening level. Unless, of course, he bound her and force fed or injected her with potassium-wasting diuretics for days prior to her death.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 43):
And where the hell did that come from?

That is such a random and ridiculous story. Conspiracy theorists of the world unite! You're the one that should be shopping oceanfront property in Arizona.

I've posted a couple of links 2 days ago ... suggest you read some of those. Her brother is on record with saying she wanted a divorce and her best friend is (who also reported that Terri was obviously in tears as they spoke the last time the afternoon of the 24th).

D.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:32 am

Oh, and Gigneil ...

Before you say her brother and her best friend commited perjury ... Neither of them have a history of commiting perjury .... Michael Schiavo however frequently changed his stories.

D.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 44):
Yeah, too convenient that she suffered cardiac arrest from documented hypokalemia (low potassium)...Sorry, but her husband couldn't make Terri's potassium drop to a life threatening level. Unless, of course, he bound her and force fed or injected her with potassium-wasting diuretics for days prior to her death.

I heard that she developed the condition as a result of bulimia.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
the question remains as to why Michael Schiavo fought so doggedly for removal of the feeding tube.

Presuming she was on some form of life-support machine, I would have preferred that to have been switched off rather than her feeding tube be removed, for she would have died quickly and peacefully then, rather than suffer the ordeal of starving to death. Starving someone to death seems to be very inhumane in my opinion.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 48):
Presuming she was on some form of life-support machine, I would have preferred that to have been switched off rather than her feeding tube be removed, for she would have died quickly and peacefully then, rather than suffer the ordeal of starving to death. Starving someone to death seems to be very inhumane in my opinion.

She wasn't on a respirator or other form of life-support machine.
Starvation probably wasn't painful given her lack of any higher brain functions. In any event, hospice staff gave her morphine.
It also should be noted that feeding tubes are removed from dying patients all the time, most of who still have normal or near-normal brain functions.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dreadnought, rfields5421 and 6 guests