KiwiNanday
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U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:08 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...0050401/ts_nm/iraq_courtmartial_dc

BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. army tank company commander convicted of shooting dead a wounded Iraqi walked free from court on Friday, although he was dismissed from the army for what he called a "mercy killing."

Army Captain Rogelio Maynulet had faced up to 10 years in jail after a court martial at a U.S. army base in Wiesbaden, Germany, found him guilty of assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter.

"He was sentenced with dismissal from the United States Army ... there will be no confinement time," a military spokesman said.

Prosecutors had pressed for conviction on a more serious charge of assault with intent to commit murder, which carries a maximum 20-year jail sentence.
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
aloges
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:20 am

You're so going to get  flamed ...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
You're so going to get  flamed ...

For what?
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting KiwiNanday (Reply 2):
For what?

Truly, all you did was post the story.

I will bet, however, that before this thread falls off the bottom of the page, someone will get flamed.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
aloges
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting KiwiNanday (Reply 2):
For what?

Well, it would be sort of a first if this question went unanswered.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:31 am

Alls I can say is, OH WELL! Glad one of our boys isn't fried for something 'trivial' like this.

There...flame away, flamers.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
bravo7e7
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:32 am

Thank you rsmi......... I mean KiwiNanday for posting such an interesting story.
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:32 am

So what the hell am I gonna get flamed for? He was just ending the Iraqis suffering. If I had mortal wounds that would take me a long time to die, I'd wanna get shot in the head!

[Edited 2005-04-02 00:34:18]
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:10 am

I served in Iraq and after spending too much time amongst the male Iraqi population, all I can say is the less of these troublemakers and thieves, the better.

Flame away...I could pretty much care less about getting "flamed" by people who haven't been there and don't know what they're talking about.

Furthermore, don't think for one second that this soldier is "walking away free"...to my understanding (and I could be wrong about this) this guy was basically given the officer's equivalent of a Bad Conduct Discharge...he'll have a hell of a time trying to find a job in this country with that following him around for the rest of his life.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:22 am

Give aid to a wounded Iraqi - get shot by his friends.
Let him suffer and get shredded by the world media.
Put him out of his misery and the video will cost you your career and more.

Lesson learned - shoot the journalist.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Klaus
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:41 am

SlamClick: Lesson learned - shoot the journalist.

Sure. "How many more of you do we have to kill until you finally start to love us?"  crazy 

Worked like a charm so far, didn´t it?  Yeah sure
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:06 am

Klaus, perhaps irony doesn't travel well over the internet.

I wrote a lengthy reply to your post but just deleted it. What's the point?
Those who understand don't need me to explain.
The cheerleaders for the war don't need my support.
Those who hope the insurgents win won't care what I say.

What's the point?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
AJBUS300
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:21 am

Doesn't surprise me. These soldiers can do just about anything in Iraq and get away with it......why? Because they are Americans and Iraq's people are inferior in their eyes.......so sad but "support our troops" people. It is one of the advantages of being in the armed forces, you can be a bad ass and do whatever f-up shiot and get away with it. I will say, not all troops are bad but the few that are should be prosecuted for what they do and not let go.

[Edited 2005-04-02 18:34:52]
Live each day as if it was your last day on God's beautiful green earth
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting ATLhomeCMH (Reply 8):
Flame away...I could pretty much care less about getting "flamed" by people who haven't been there and don't know what they're talking about.

Here, Here! I quite agree. Nothing like a web site full of Arm-Chair Generals and teeny bopper hangers-on!

Quoting ATLhomeCMH (Reply 8):
this guy was basically given the officer's equivalent of a Bad Conduct Discharge...he'll have a hell of a time trying to find a job in this country with that following him around for the rest of his life

Correct. His military career is absolutely done. Anything he wants to do in his civilian life - other than Walmart Greeter or Blue Light Special widget - is definitely gonna suffer. It is highly unlikely that he will ever get that BCD overturned given the nature of the discharge.

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 12):
I will say, not all troops are bad but the few that are should be prosecuted for what they do and not let go.

I was wondering if we had a ANOTHER new Arm-Chair General at A-Net until I read this part of your post. Maybe you're salvageable. I assure you, troops that commit these crimes are prosecuted. Just like this Captain. He was prosecuted, and his career is over, his life is marked - forever - by a Federal Conviction.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Klaus
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:57 am

SlamClick: Klaus, perhaps irony doesn't travel well over the internet.

Considering the topic, sarcasm was a perfectly appropriate response. (Unless I´ve missed the memo listing the prescribed reactions...
)
 
AJBUS300
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
He was prosecuted, and his career is over, his life is marked - forever - by a Federal Conviction.

But I don't think that is enough punishment for killing someone. If a civian kills someone here in the US, you get time and not just a conviction in your record. As for the other, I recognize that not all troops are bad but for some people, these few bad ones give all of them a bad name. We know a guy that is in the armed forces and he is a cool guy. We (family and I) actually had a party for him and his family when he returned from Iraq as a kind of celebrating for what he is doing. So I am not against troops, just the bad ones. I think what they are doing is admirable and respectful..even if I don't agree with the war to begin with, they are just following orders.
Live each day as if it was your last day on God's beautiful green earth
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 15):
But I don't think that is enough punishment for killing someone. If a civian kills someone here in the US, you get time and not just a conviction in your record.

OK, I respect that, you don't think the punishment is severe enough. Fine. I don't have a solution for you. He was properly charged and adjudicated.

If a civilian kills someone here in the US you do NOT necessarily get time in the Pokey - depends on how the death occured. The conviction will still be there, but time in the pokey isn't necessarily going to happen.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:12 am

Klaus: I did not intend sarcasm.

My point was this: Video scrutiny, being pipelined through editorializing 'news' agencies to a culture that has already made up its mind about the conflict is going to produce a world where the only people free to wage war are those who DO NOT CARE what the world thinks of them. Everyone else will be hogtied by public opinion. We will be left with the beheaders of the world.

Thank you news media for helping to create a playing field so biased toward the unscrupulous, the merciless, the baby-killers. Any soldier, any nation with a conscience must now evaluate every action not in the light of what is right for the moment, but for how it is going to look on television.

A little brighter light, a little closer scrutiny of warriors might have helped make war seem less 'glorious' and helped to de-glamorize it. That could only be good. But the present situation is this: A soldier who ends the life (and suffering) of a wounded enemy combatant gets worse press than a person who kidnaps at gunpoint a non-combatant, binds them, and beheads them with a pocket knife.

No point in denying it. A simple search of this forum will disclose that (on the subject of Iraq) anti-US threads and posts outnumber anti-beheaders posts and threads by about fifty to one.

What's the point?
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L410Turbolet
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:58 am

What's the point? You want to be viewed as the "good guys" down there, do you not? So what's the point of claiming the insurgents claiming are even worse???
 
Klaus
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:00 am

SlamClick: I did not intend sarcasm.

And yet it was the proper response.


SlamClick: My point was this: Video scrutiny, being pipelined through editorializing 'news' agencies to a culture that has already made up its mind about the conflict is going to produce a world where the only people free to wage war are those who DO NOT CARE what the world thinks of them. Everyone else will be hogtied by public opinion. We will be left with the beheaders of the world.

The problem is not the amount of news coverage, it´s the dismal quality of some of it - unfortunately including most of the attention-crazed commercial US media.


SlamClick: No point in denying it. A simple search of this forum will disclose that (on the subject of Iraq) anti-US threads and posts outnumber anti-beheaders posts and threads by about fifty to one.

What's the point?


The point is that the existence of other people who are (even?) more depraved than you are doesn´t exonerate or exculpate you in any way.

The current US policy blatantly and aggressively denies, violates and betrays your own ideals. The same ideals which are by now shared among most of the western world, with most of us still unwilling to lower our standards to "just a bit above the terrorists".

Terrorists cannot be reasoned with. You can (and must) try to keep them from gaining support and legitimacy within their environment. But beyond that, it´s merely a fight through police and intelligence.

Do you really want to be held to the same low standard?

This is why we continue to be on different sides in the matter. It´s not USA vs. the rest of the world; It´s the current US government against the rest of the world and against its own ideals.

A contest which would ask you to choose wisely when picking sides.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:21 am

I wonder If Michael Schiavo had put a bullet in Terry's head would he get off on a plea of "mercy killing"?

Have fun with THAT one!
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 20):
Have fun with THAT one!

This is exactly why I said: "What's the point."

For those of you who have been fortunate enough never to have tested your beliefs outside your Disneyland lives, let me point out the obvious: You cannot compare war and peace.

The soldier was at war. The man he shot was an enemy combatant. The real misfortune here was that the man was wounded rather than killed outright.

So to those of you who are smugly self-righteous and somehow KNOW that this soldier did wrong - what woud you have done?

I think integrity would dictate that you answer that question before adding any other comment.

What would you have done?

Let him suffer?
Get yourself killed trying to rescue him?
What?
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OzarkD9S
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:53 am

I stand by the soldier's decision 100%. Have never been to Disneyland. I was pointing out how NOTHING is black and white.

Let me rephrase that. Perhaps some issues are, but the vast majority of life is a gray area....

[Edited 2005-04-03 18:57:11]
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
SlamClick
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 22):
was pointing out how NOTHING is black and white.

Well sir, we agree on that. Some things are pretty darn close however.

My view on this is shaped in part by experience investigating accidents, and in witnessing them. The big lesson for me is that eyewitnesses rarely get it right. Next lesson is that video watchers see through personal filters. Then context is very important.

Point is, despite what many believe, courts-martial are not really in the whitewash business. If they go into a proceeding with an agenda other than disclosure of truth I'd guess that it would most likely be to protect the service, and not the respondent (accused). If I were the accused in this case I think I might, privately, expect to be thrown to the wolves to protect my superiors.

So here we all sit making personal judgements about the case, when in fact, not one of us heard all the evidence. Not one of us heard arguments from either side. In short, all we really know is what the news media told us and what we think about what we saw on the video.

The soldier will pay a considerable price. The case cannot be understood from a standpoint of peacetime, civilian homicide law. It is over.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
dl021
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RE: U.S. Soldier Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Walks Free

Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
Give aid to a wounded Iraqi - get shot by his friends.
Let him suffer and get shredded by the world media.
Put him out of his misery and the video will cost you your career and more.

Lesson learned - shoot the journalist.

OK...can we get that in the form of a DF that makes it policy? I have some friends who would like that idea.

Seriously, the journalists are trying to do their jobs, but their jobs involve ratings and are subject to the ministrations of their editors. They send back raw images and don't properly explain it all the time, and even when they do their conclusions are overridden by editors who choose to editorialize.

What this soldier did was not murder, and had it been presented the way it happened by the eyewitnesses on the scene I think public opinion would be different. As it was the guy got fried in the courtmartial as the JAG and his peers knew what the higher ups were going after and the letter of the law here does not necessarily correspond with the spirit or with justice.

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 15):
But I don't think that is enough punishment for killing someone.

This guy performed a mercy killing of a seriously wounded combatant who was destined for great suffering until he died shortly, and exercised mercy.

Further proof that no good deed goes unpunished.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?

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