Kieron747
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Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:29 am

Hello,

I consider myself a rational person, I am a scientist and as a result have developed an atheistic attitude. However, there are a few things I cannot explain, for example, dreaming or even waking up when family members have died and only finding out afterwards that the event had occurred.

The question is, do you believe in ghosts-spirits? Or even the residual essence of a person?

Its just something that I have pondered for a while, your comments and experiences would be welcome.

Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:50 am

Your situation makes it a bit difficult for you to understand. Being a scientist makes you want a physical proof to "believe" in what has been proven.

I do believe in spirits... They're all over, and they are part of what science cannot prove. Spirits, to me, live in this 7th dimension, which also allows them to switch from theirs to ours. We cannot get into their dimension (I'm making up that dimension thing now) for unknow and/or unexplained reasons, unless you believe also in Good and Evil or God and Devil thing. Thing is that for you to believe, you must have a proof.. And you only get a proof of this if you believe first. Do you get the picture???

Anyways, putting it more into known issues, Bible has tons of comments on spirits, soul, demons, etc, etc, etc. It talks about the unknown, about supernatural things and it even mention hints of stuff that we (humans) should not know until after some event comes in first. There are parts that says, for example.... "Write these thing, but seal these others, and don't write them"... and everything that's written is what was commanded to be written. But then, there are things that the writer was told not to write, and he didn't, so its not in the books, which means, we have no clue of what they are, or how they work.... and its kind of the same way as with the spirits... with the exception that whoever believes in what the Bible or any other religious book says, kind of have a picture of what the spirits are/work, etc.

But like I said... You must first believe to be able to have a proof of it. Its a BIG mess.


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aerorobnz
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:57 am

I have thought about it before, but No I don't think I could realistically think of any reason that ghosts exist outside of the mind. The Human Mind can easily project images/memories, an your eyes & your brain work so closely together that it is difficult for a human mind to pick up at times. We all have a blind spot in the centre of our vision that our brains automatically compensate with what it thinks we should be seeing based on what we are seeing around the blind spot, so a simple ghostly image should be no trouble at all.

One possible explanation for waking up when someone dies is that our empathy senses are developed enough to recognise pain/suffering/death in those humans particularly close to us, even if they are away from us. This however would mean we would have a minor degree of telepathy.. and that in itself is just about as farfetched as ghosts/spirits etc.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 1):
Your situation makes it a bit difficult for you to understand. Being a scientist makes you want a physical proof to "believe" in what has been proven.

I understand what you're saying, but I find the comment a little derogatory. True, I do feel the need to obtain proof in order to believe something. Would you fly on a plane if you didn't know that it flew?

My initial post was detailing the fact that even though I am an empirical person, who desires evidence, doesn't mean that I'm not open to possibilities, that may one day be proved.

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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 3):
Would you fly on a plane if you didn't know that it flew?

There comes the faith factor. If I believe by faith that it can, then I'll jump in.

Take as an example, the people who think if they blow themselves up, they'll go to haven. That is what I call having faith only (no brain whatsoever). There's no proof you will go there by doing that. But they believe in it, so its true for them.
 
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:27 pm

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 4):

There comes the faith factor. If I believe by faith that it can, then I'll jump in.

I believe by evidence with my own eyes that it can fly, not by faith! I see a plane fly, therefore I believe that method of transportation works! However, I will agree with you on the suicide bombers. That is blind faith. And that is why I'm not religious...

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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:33 pm

I don't care too much for the term "
Ghosts". I do belive there are spirits or energy of a person that is no longer in the body form that is around us.
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 5):
I believe by evidence with my own eyes that it can fly, not by faith! I see a plane fly, therefore I believe that method of transportation works!

True. But there you're getting a proof that the plane can fly, and that's what you're not getting with the ghosts, a proof. So you'll need to have faith that it can fly before you actually see it flying. So, before you "see" ghosts, you need to believe in their existance. mmmm... I find this last statement somewhat stupid, but the idea is well expressed there. I believe in spirits (not really ghosts) but I am not seing them all over  Wink, as a matter of fact, I had never seen one. Like I said before, this is king of a messy subject. Very complicated to even write about.
 
Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:38 pm

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 7):
Like I said before, this is king of a messy subject. Very complicated to even write about.

I agree totally. The reason why I posted it is because I myself am confused over tha matter.

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JetService
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:51 pm

Having a preminition of a death or injury to a family doesn't necessary mean spirits or ghosts, that could mean the person has some sort of psychic ability. A whole new can of worms.

My aunt in Texas called us when my mom had a cardiac arrest (we're in Indiana). She said she 'heard' my mom say to her that she'd be all right. She called to find out if everything was OK. Of course it wasn't.
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Falcon84
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:58 pm

I've never seen one myself, but I do believe they exist. My wife has seen her late father on several occasions, as has her mom and her sisters. I keep telling her to wake me up or tell me if dad is around, but I bet I wouldn't see him, since I don't have the connection to him that she has.

Want to see ghosts, I've heard you should frequent major battlefields. A friend of my dad's is a Gettysburg fanatic, and he says he's run into more than one spirit on that famous battlefield-he even has pictures of a ghost that he showed my father. I want to see them in the worst way.  Smile
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Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
he even has pictures of a ghost that he showed my father

Actual photographs???

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LHMark
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:05 pm

I think it's easy for the human brain to "trick" itself, thanks to its capacity for imagination. A lot of unexplainable phenomena turn out to have a simple, boringly mundane explanation. You're just trying to process it without all the information.
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Falcon84
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 11):
Actual photographs???

Yep. From what my dad told me, it's a series of photo's the guy took-I believe near the stone wall, famous in Pickett's charge. They're photo's into the grass, and, about the 4th photo, my dad says you can see a soldier clearly visible in the grass-his eyes, nose, beard, the hat he wore-everything, just staring at you out of the grass. He's there for about 4 photo's, then he vanishes in the next one. My dad saw the ghost right away.

Pretty cool.  Big grin
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LHMark
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:30 pm

Falcon, just curious, were they Polaroid photos?
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Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Yep. From what my dad told me, it's a series of photo's the guy took-I believe near the stone wall, famous in Pickett's charge. They're photo's into the grass, and, about the 4th photo, my dad says you can see a soldier clearly visible in the grass-his eyes, nose, beard, the hat he wore-everything, just staring at you out of the grass. He's there for about 4 photo's, then he vanishes in the next one. My dad saw the ghost right away.

Dude if you have proof of any activity of this kind, its worth a million US $ to that guy, I can't remember his name...


Kieron747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:44 pm

LHMARK, no idea, man, none whatsoever.
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AJBUS300
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:40 pm

I am a definite believer in ghosts. I don't need proof, I just know they are out there. I am just terrified at the thought of seeing a ghost, I think I would die if I saw one.......as a matter of fact, I will stop typing about it because I am getting the chills!!!!!!!

[Edited 2005-04-03 07:51:49]
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 17):
I am a definite believer in ghosts. I don't need proof, I just know they are out there. I am just terrified at the thought of seeing a ghost, I think I would die.......

I completely share your thoughts!

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 17):
I will stop typing about it because I am getting the chills!!!!!!!

Hahahahaha! Sometimes I think the same way....
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:54 pm

I do not believe in GHOSTS. I believe in PRESCENCE. Is there a difference?
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:52 pm

Never seen one so dont believe in them.Although I know a few others that swear they did.
Guess seeing is Believing.  Smile
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whitehatter
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 15):
Dude if you have proof of any activity of this kind, its worth a million US $ to that guy, I can't remember his name...

James Randi http://www.randi.org

Anyway to give my answer:

Yes I do, I've seen one, and the circumstances/story are pretty unique in that the rest of my family saw the same ghost on different occasions plus a number of other relatives.

The house we lived in was haunted, we all saw the same thing but didn't discuss it with each other until much later when we all found we had seen exactly the same thing. A man coming down the stairs and then moving down the hall into the kitchen.

The previous occupant had been an elderly maiden aunt, who wanted somewhere smaller as she lived alone. So she said. Turns out she wanted out as she had also seen the same thing happening, but didn't say anything in case people started thinking she was going potty.

Later on, someone who was apparently psychically gifted came to the house, saw the ghost, and gave us a description of who the ghost was and why he was re-enacting this particular event. 100% hit. The ghost was the brother of the maiden aunt who had died years previously in that house. His ghost was coming down from the bedroom in which he had just passed away to tell his sister, who was in the kitchen at the time.
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:50 pm

I spent 2 years in my school hostel which was built within the massive Palace complex of the ersthile rulers of the princely state of Mewar.

The entire complex is about a 1000 yrs old. The hostel was built in the area which served as the royal stable and the volleyball ground where the hostellers relaxed was the official 'hanging ground' for death sentences.

During my stay, I did encounter a few instances of paranormal activity that is hard to explain. Even fellow hostellers had their tales of such encounters. The most common was to hear horse sounds at midnight. There are no horses in the vicinity though. was scary. A few pics of the palace.



 
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:40 pm

I have seen one and sensed the presence of others at various times over the last 30 years. Several of these were shared with other people who were with me at the time. I have never sought to see or sense a presence, they just happened. Several were not welcome either!

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 6):
I don't care too much for the term "
Ghosts".

Good point. As soon as you use the work 'ghost' many people go into the silly Halloween mode of mind or start chanting the 'do-de-do-doo' theme from an equally idiotic TV programme. They just piss me off.

Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 17):
I am just terrified at the thought of seeing a ghost, I think I would die if I saw one.......

That was what I used to think but as I have got older I have learned not to feel fear. A presence is just a phenomena of some sort that we do not understand, they cannot hurt you. I have come across one that was so benign and friendly that I remember thinking 'There is a presence in this room' and then happily falling asleep. My wife - a legal person and definitely a disbeliever by the way - said she felt the same thing. I have sensed another which was malevolent and I just kept walking away, I knew instinctively not to look back but it could not hurt me.

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 12):
I think it's easy for the human brain to "trick" itself, thanks to its capacity for imagination. A lot of unexplainable phenomena turn out to have a simple, boringly mundane explanation. You're just trying to process it without all the information.

I am an imaginative person and I have to agree with you, it is easy to do this. That is why the shared experiences are so helpful as these give you someone who can look at what has happened in a different way. The benign presence that I experienced with my wife, she actually pointed it out to me a couple of days later as I had assumed it was just my imagination. She recounted exactly the same sense of positive feeling and thoughts and even the location of the presence in the room.

Quoting Kieron747 (Thread starter):
The question is, do you believe in ghosts-spirits? Or even the residual essence of a person?

Clearly a "Yes" answer!! Interested to hear that you have had experiences and also that you are applying a rational and scientific approach to assimilating them. Using the plane rationale, we all know that planes exist and fly and even before 1903 the knowledge and belief that powered flight was possible was strong even though no-one had seen it. Perhaps one day as technology develops we might find a way of measuring a presence or 'ghost', until then we just have to look at the sheer number of experiences often involving unwilling witnesses and try to reach a conclusion from those.

 ghost 
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AJBUS300
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 22):
I spent 2 years in my school hostel which was built within the massive Palace complex of the ersthile rulers of the princely state of Mewar.

The entire complex is about a 1000 yrs old. The hostel was built in the area which served as the royal stable and the volleyball ground where the hostellers relaxed was the official 'hanging ground' for death sentences.

During my stay, I did encounter a few instances of paranormal activity that is hard to explain. Even fellow hostellers had their tales of such encounters. The most common was to hear horse sounds at midnight. There are no horses in the vicinity though. was scary. A few pics of the palace.

That place has HAUNTED written all over it.......I dont think I could be there in the daytime let alone the nightime......sheesh...don't know how you managed bro........
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Espion007
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:15 am

ghosts? no.

LSD? yes.
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AA777
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:48 pm

I believe in ghosts / spirits. There is plenty of supernatural stuff going on, and people are too skeptical to believe it. I know someone who claims she saw her deceased sister and heard the distinct sound of her sister's high-heels coming down the hallway of her house. She woke up and saw her, and said that she shouldnt be there. Her sister then simply repeated the name over and over, of another relative (who was small, and whose mother had left, father was in jail--ie, the little girl needed help), and then she turned around and left, the heels clicking and fading after she left the room. Scary huh? This person told us that she was sure it was not a dream.

I believe in evil spirits because of some scary dreams / nightmares that I've had where I've woken up and been numb on half of my body and unable to speak or really even move..... other people who I know have had similar experiences.


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ryanb741
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:40 pm

Having lived in an old house built over an ancient monastic graveyard I DEFINITELY 100% CATEGORICALLY believe in ghosts. I won't go into more detail on here about why - but in real life they aren't as scary as you would imagine them to be.

With regards to psychic premonitions, my wife has an uncanny clairvoyant ability at times. I remember about 6 months ago she dreamt about a man being beheaded on a London street with an axe - she even knew the location of the attack and the first name of the victim. Of course, 3 weeks ago a man was beheaded in the precise location she said and the first name my wife had predicted was actually the victim's surname! Freaky.
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NZ747
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:20 pm

I do believe in ghosts. Why? Because I have seen.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:35 am

I Dunno, but this is my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

My nextdoor neighbor, his cousin (Self proclaimed Psychic), her husband, and myself decided to 'go visit' the 13th floor of the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables, FL (KMIA). (I reccomend searching "Biltmore hotel ghosts" on Google.). Now we knew the 13th floor is under renovation, but we wanted to see what we could if anything

We get to the hotel and walk through the lobby, and press the up button for an elevator, get one, press 13, and go straight on up. Now the thing to know is that when you get out of the elevator on the 13th floor is that is dumps you out into a Foyer that has paneled wooden double doors, in front of you, and a small hallway to the right that leads to the fire escape.

Both doors were closed and locked. For whatever reason, the psychic's hubby tries to press on one on the pannels, he didn't shove it, kick it, punch it or in any way force it (I SWEAR!!). He barely touches it and it falls in as if it wasn't held by a thing in the first place. So now we unlock the door and let ourselves in. The place was mostly clean, but still in construction shambles. We walk around the room, and there wasn't much to be said, se we decided to check out the indoor balcony overlooking the main room we had entered. As we climbed up the stairs, my next door neighbor was first, I was second, the psychic 3rd, her hubby 4th. We are progressing up, wen my nextdoor neighbor gets about 3-4 steps from the top, shivers, and continues on, I get to the same spot and felt a very bitter chill go down my spine. Then the psychic got there, she fell over (back) onto her husband..Bizzare...

He helps her the rest of the way up, and just as soon as we start to enjoy the view, security comes in and busts us!! Thankfully my next door neighbor knew someone who knew someone, and we didn't get in nearly as much trouble as we could have, but it was interesting...

Now for the things that really gets me about all of the above.. which I found out though hearsay after the fact.

1) There is only one elevator that services the 13th floor (we got it on the 1st try)
2) The elevator had been converted to computer controlled so it could be programmed to only service certain floors at certain times. It was programmed NOT to allow anyone to go to the 13th floor.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:18 am

I have a photo at home of the inside of my house that shows what may be a partial dimensional shift. Long story short, you can see through the top part of a coat rack in such a way that you think it's moving in the picture. The thing is, there is no other motion in the picture and the coat rack is by no means moving, and there was no spill-over in the photograph as the proportionate dimensions remain the same in real life. Just another thing to throw into the mix...
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Falcon84
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RE: Do You Believe In Ghosts?

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:32 am

I do believe in spooks
I do believe in spooks
I do I do I do I do I do believe in spooks

Yours always,

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