nycflyer
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Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:21 pm

Here's why I hate SUVs and have major issues with their drivers:

But first, a caveat: none of the following applies to people who live in rural, snowy areas, because I recognize that in some parts of the country, 4-wheel drive is an actual necessity. The following mostly applies to suburbanites.

For everyone else:

1) As a sedan driver, driving behind an SUV makes it impossible to see more than one car ahead. This is a safety issue if the SUV ahead of you hits the breaks suddenly. When you're behind other sedans, you can see multiple cars ahead and can prepare to slow down.

2) My theory: SUV drivers, vast majority of whom live in the suburbs, generally find their lives boring. They think that driving a rugged-looking car makes them, by extension, more rugged, and they are somehow "conquering the wilderness" when they drive from the subdivision to the mall or the high school and back. It makes them feel good to think, "my car is bigger than your car." Foolishness.

3) Minus what I said above, no one NEEDS an SUV. If you have a lot of kids, get a minivan. If you need to lug a lot of stuff, get a pickup or a station wagon. There's not THAT much more cargo you can fit in an SUV than in a full-size wagon. If you need to lug that much cargo regularly, get a pickup or a van. But instead, the whole "I look cool when I drive an SUV" mentality comes into play. See #2.

4) Plain and simple, you just don't need 4-wheel drive in the suburbs. Those SUV ads are ridiculous - who the hell drives their Jeep Cherokee to the top of a mountain?

5) The obvious overuse of gasoline compared to smaller cars. We live in a society that consumes a frightening amount of oil per capita, that is totally unsustainable and short-sighted. SUV drivers are the guiltiest parties.


To conclude, I think an SUV is a very selfish car to drive. IMO, it symbolizes and encompasses the worst in the American Culture of Excess.

Before you seething SUV drivers get ready to flame me, please know that like the Pope, I hate the sin, not the sinner  Smile
 
N317AS
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:28 pm

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
As a sedan driver, driving behind an SUV makes it impossible to see more than one car ahead. This is a safety issue if the SUV ahead of you hits the breaks suddenly. When you're behind other sedans, you can see multiple cars ahead and can prepare to slow down.

I think people that use this excuse are just overcompensating for a shortfall of their own. Why didn't all this start with trucks and vans. Not soccer-freaking-mom-mini-vans, but real vans. But no one bitches about those. Just SUVs. If you aren't tailgaiting you can see around them. If you are tailgaiting, watch for brake lights. 25 mpg Hondas don't look so good under 15mpg SUVs.

In case you wonder, I don't have an SUV. I just hate this argument.
Some people are like Slinkies. They bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:34 pm

"As a sedan driver, driving behind an SUV makes it impossible to see more than one car ahead. This is a safety issue if the SUV ahead of you hits the breaks suddenly. "

Don't tailgate.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
174thfwff
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drive

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
1) As a sedan driver, driving behind an SUV makes it impossible to see more than one car ahead. This is a safety issue if the SUV ahead of you hits the breaks suddenly. When you're behind other sedans, you can see multiple cars ahead and can prepare to slow down.

Don't drive so close to the car in front of you. It's really easy to see around 18 wheelers when you aren't 2 feet behind them too!

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):

2) My theory: SUV drivers, vast majority of whom live in the suburbs, generally find their lives boring. They think that driving a rugged-looking car makes them, by extension, more rugged, and they are somehow "conquering the wilderness" when they drive from the subdivision to the mall or the high school and back. It makes them feel good to think, "my car is bigger than your car." Foolishness.

Yes this makes absolute sense. People drive SUV's because their lives are boring....What about people that drive Sports cars that get 12 mpg? Are their lives boring too? Thinking how you are is also foolish as well there champ.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
3) Minus what I said above, no one NEEDS an SUV. If you have a lot of kids, get a minivan. If you need to lug a lot of stuff, get a pickup or a station wagon. There's not THAT much more cargo you can fit in an SUV than in a full-size wagon. If you need to lug that much cargo regularly, get a pickup or a van. But instead, the whole "I look cool when I drive an SUV" mentality comes into play. See #2.

I don't like mini vans or station wagons...and yea, every time I start my car I say to myself, "Damn, I'm cool! Look at me go in my SUV!"

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
4) Plain and simple, you just don't need 4-wheel drive in the suburbs. Those SUV ads are ridiculous - who the hell drives their Jeep Cherokee to the top of a mountain?

Hell, ride a bicycle. Nobody needs transportation in the suburbs, or urban areas, or rural areas...

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
5) The obvious overuse of gasoline compared to smaller cars. We live in a society that consumes a frightening amount of oil per capita, that is totally unsustainable and short-sighted. SUV drivers are the guiltiest parties.

Yea, that's the only point I'm going to agree on. However I pay for my gasoline just as much as the next guy.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
To conclude, I think an SUV is a very selfish car to drive. IMO, it symbolizes and encompasses the worst in the American Culture of Excess.

To conclude, I think you are making a big deal out of nothing (minus gas consumption). If you feel that SUV's are a status symbol, you need to rearrange your priorities. How about you focus on bettering yourself before you tell others what they should and shouldn't buy.

[Edited 2005-04-05 08:04:25]
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Biggles
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:04 pm

The biggest problem here in YYC is people driving SUV's in snow who don't understand that all wheel drive doesn't help brake a 2 ton vehicle.
Usually the first vehicle in the ditch when the snow falls is an SUV. A lot of the owners just do not know how to drive them.They see the misleading ads and think they can drive them like a sports car in any weather .
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:12 pm

Quoting Biggles (Reply 4):
The biggest problem here in YYC is people driving SUV's in snow who don't understand that all wheel drive doesn't help brake a 2 ton vehicle.
Usually the first vehicle in the ditch when the snow falls is an SUV.

Ha Ha Ha - ain't that the truth, ANC is the same way . . . . jokers get a big ole SUV and they drive out there on the highway all 4X4, and Diesel, and thinking they're all that and they'll be the first idiot I have to respond to . . . not the schmuck in the Toyota Speck . . .

NYCFlyer, if you wouldn't tailgate you could see around a bigger vehicle . . . one day your going to have someones rear license plate drilled in to your forehead . . . .

SUVs have a purpose and - as was pointed out - are necessary in some places. Same with big pickups. I concur, there appears to be no need to drive what I refer to as a Psuedo-SUV, one of those Mercedes or other half baked SUV-wannabes simply for status. That said, this is America - buy what ever you want and have at it. . . . .who cares.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:57 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
NYCFlyer, if you wouldn't tailgate you could see around a bigger vehicle . . . one day your going to have someones rear license plate drilled in to your forehead . .

It seems like everyone is getting onto that "tailgating" bandwagon.

What he probably meant was because of the height, you can't see traffic through the SUV's windows/other cars' 3rd brake light as you would when following a normal sedan.

That applies even when you're respecting the normal safety distances...and btw, can any of all you people yelling "Tailgater !" tell what is the correct distance you should be at when following another vehicle  Wink

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
JetService
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drive

Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:25 pm

I just traded in my Monto Carlo for a Chevy Trailblazer but not for the reason you say. You see, I already think I'm better than my neighbors and I even have a huge cock. The main reason I bought it was because I intend to buy a boat in the near future. I'm not going to buy a pick-up for this as I have 3 children and would likely be hauling them and the boat at the same time on various occasions. I do have a mini-van (well its a Pontiac Montana, not sure if that's considered a mini-van or not) anyway, its gets no better gas mileage than my Trailblazer. They are roughly the same size. I know the Montana can tow a boat with no problem, but its my wife's vehicle and if I'm out on a trip and DON'T take the kids, then she needs the van. So rather than own three vehicles (talk about excessive), I just decided to own two that takes care of everything.

HOWEVER, I will defend your 'seeing in traffic' argument. On a straight highway, its more unnerving not being able to see several cars ahead of you. Even when not tailgating, sudden stops can be scary moments. To prevent that, you'd have to get so far behind the vehicle in front of you that people would just cut in front of you to fill the gap. I always hated that!!! Well I have a solution for you....get an SUV!!! They sit you up high with the rest of traffic and you can see great!!! Big grin
"Shaddap you!"
 
Mir
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
and btw, can any of all you people yelling "Tailgater !" tell what is the correct distance you should be at when following another vehicle

I don't have a driver's license, but I do believe that it is four seconds worth of distance as a general rule.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I do believe that it is four seconds worth of distance as a general rule.

And one wrong answer, one  Wink (even though 4 seconds is indeed a good safety margin when at 250 km/h)

UTA
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Mir
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:46 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 9):
And one wrong answer, one

Hence the no driver's license.  Wink That's my project for this summer.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Chugach
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:47 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Ha Ha Ha - ain't that the truth, ANC is the same way . . . . jokers get a big ole SUV and they drive out there on the highway all 4X4, and Diesel, and thinking they're all that and they'll be the first idiot I have to respond to . . . not the schmuck in the Toyota Speck . . .

Funny thing is, all my friends give me crap for going slow in the winter on the Parks between ANC and FAI in my F250. And they wonder why I haven't rolled it yet.
GO ROCKETS
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
1) As a sedan driver, driving behind an SUV makes it impossible to see more than one car ahead. This is a safety issue if the SUV ahead of you hits the breaks suddenly. When you're behind other sedans, you can see multiple cars ahead and can prepare to slow down.

I am suprised no one mentioned this yet, but why don't you buy an SUV?

Also an SUV vs your sedan... yeah what watch out there.

I drive a Ford F-150 - do people who drive trucks get lotted in the same group as SUVs?
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:47 pm

You might say I live in the suburbs. I bought mine because I need it. I haul stuff. I drive off-road. I need a 4x4. It's my only vehicle. What am I supposed to do when I drive into St. Paul/Minneapolis a couple times a month?

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:50 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 13):
What am I supposed to do when I drive into St. Paul/Minneapolis a couple times a month?

Rent a Neon Big grin

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
killjoy
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:00 pm

I agree with the original poster. To all others:

It's not tailgating if you're stuck in a traffic jam going 10 km/h. When there are so many cars that you can't leave extra space, the only solution is to prepare to brake when you see the lane in front of you light up with red lights. If there's an SUV in front of you, good luck...

The reason no one complains about trucks and vans is that they actually fulfill a useful purpose. If I see a van packed with furniture, or even a full-size bus in front of me, sure it makes my driving a bit harder, but I realize there's a need for them. Like the first poster pointed out, almost no one needs an SUV.

Another issue is that no one buys a bus if they don't need one, whereas nowadays there are millions of unnecessary oversized vehicles on the roads, making an originally small annoyance a huge problem. Just because SUV's are supposedly cool. And no, it's not a good solution to have everyone buy one...

Finally, before anyone brings up the "I have the right to drive whatever I want"-argument: Of course you do, but we also have the right to call you assholes. Try thinking about someone else for a moment.
 
N766UA
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:03 pm

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
To conclude, I think you are making a big deal out of nothing (minus gas consumption).

I think he's making a big deal out of nothing including gas consumption. There are plenty of cars, vans, and trucks out there that get worse gas mileage than SUVs (Giant ass ones like the excursion or H2 aside.) You want selfish? How about your giant thread bitching about other people and how their wants don't agree with yours?

Oh BTW, I can't stand SUVs of the gigantic variety like those I mentioned... now those are truly pointless.
This Website Censors Me
 
Kay
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:05 pm

What makes me hate SUV is the people who drive them: it quenches their thirst for show-off. Most of them can't drive neither, specially those who are more busy wearing make-up than driving the vehicle, which makes them almost dangerous.

There was an accident about 5 years ago in my country where a woman (with her two kids) taking a curve to a bridge suffered understeering in her Range Rover Vogue (ok, a 4X4, which is not technically an SUV) and... went through the barrier all the way down to the highway where she landed on a supermodel driving a Mazda Miata with her cousin!!!! A fire incurred and all perished.

Talk about lack of feel of the car!!!! I mean these cars are boats, but how reckless can you be in driving them? This would have never happened if it was a normal sedan.

That being said, I rented once a 2005 Renault Scenic StationWagon, and this vehicle is indeed very practical. But only as a second car from my sportscar. And not a Renault (changing gears is a joke in that one).

Kay
 
cptkrell
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:30 pm

The Tenn (and Mich) driver license handbooks recommend two seconds interval for safe following distance in traffic in normal (dry, good vis) conditions. One notices when the vehicle in front passes a stationary object; if you pass the same object in less than two seconds, you are following too close. The formula supposedly works at any constant legal speed. Other formulas (Fla, IIRC) have recommended allowing one car length distance per each 10 mph. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
nycflyer
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
What he probably meant was because of the height, you can't see traffic through the SUV's windows/other cars' 3rd brake light as you would when following a normal sedan.

That applies even when you're respecting the normal safety distances...and btw, can any of all you people yelling "Tailgater !" tell what is the correct distance you should be at when following another vehicle

UTA

Hi there - I'm the original poster. THANK YOU UTA for backing me up on the tailgate issue. I do not tailgate - it's simply that you can't see through the windshield of the SUV in front of you, and can't see the tailgates of the car in front of the SUV. You can barely see around the sides of an SUV, but you have to swerve to one side of your land, and that is a safety issue in itself.

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
To conclude, I think you are making a big deal out of nothing (minus gas consumption). If you feel that SUV's are a status symbol, you need to rearrange your priorities. How about you focus on bettering yourself before you tell others what they should and shouldn't buy.

So just because I post something in the airliners.net Non-Av forum, you assume it's the biggest priority in my life, and I'm more concerned about SUVs than about "bettering myself"? Wow, you take these forums seriously! No, my dislike of SUVs is not my biggest life priority, so thankfully no major rearrangement is in order. But thanks very much for bringing that to my attention.

Quoting N317AS (Reply 1):
Why didn't all this start with trucks and vans. Not soccer-freaking-mom-mini-vans, but real vans.

The reason this didn't come up before with vans and trucks, is because vans and trucks are nowhere near the prevalence of SUVs. Trucks are a fact of life for cargo delivery - there is no substitute for them. A lot of vans are for commercial purposes and can't be replaced either. My argument is with SUVs because they ARE replaceable, because so few people who drive them actually need them.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
I drive a Ford F-150 - do people who drive trucks get lotted in the same group as SUVs?

not as much, because many people who drive trucks actually need the truck to haul stuff around. If people actually NEED a vehicle for cargo or commercial purposes, it's fine. But if you have some dumbass teenager in Alabama who drives an F-150 to school everyday because it makes him look cool, then yes I do group it into the anti-SUV argument.
 
cornish
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:56 pm

I don't have an issue so much with SUVs (I don't drive one as I enjoy my driving too much over here - when somebody builds an SUV that handles better than a performance car I might then consider otherwise), what I have a problem with is the school-run mums who drive them and are often unable to handle them properly.

And believe me, here outside London its those mums who are desperate to get their kids to school quickly before rushing off to get their hair done are the ones who cause the most chaos on the roads during the rush hour.

They drive them in the common thinking that their kids are safer in an accident (not true in many cases), disregarding the fact that they are more likely to AVOID an accident in a normal car (better centre of gravity for avoidance, stopping distance, and in some cases better crash resistance in some cars).

As somebody once said, the safest car is the one with a huge great spike sticking out of the steering wheel.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
can any of all you people yelling "Tailgater !" tell what is the correct distance you should be at when following another vehicle

I believe it is 1 car length for every 10mph.

Tailgating or not it is difficult to see traffic in front of an SUV, especially those damned Hummer H2s that every little dick in the country seems to be getting.

If you need actual hauling capacity get a pickup truck or a van, I don't have nearly as much difficulty seeing around a pickup as an SUV, because the pickup is not a giant box going down the road. Vans just aren't as prevalent, so when they catch up I may start bitching about them. I can speak from an experience and tell you that aside from a Suburban and that big ass Ford equivalent you can't get shit in 99% of the SUVs on the road making them no better than cars for hauling.

18wheelers are hard to see around, and they suck to be stuck behind at a light but they serve a real purpose.

Does someone taking their two little bastards to soccer practice really need seating for 8? I didn't think so. They could have saved themselves a fortune in gas and on the initial purchase if they had just purchased a mid sized car. Too many people buy a car for 1% of their needs and ignore what they are going to be doing 99% of the time. Look at the increased cost to haul Kenzie and Dakota to soccer practice in a Suburban vs an Impala. Then again an Impala won't blend in with the other soccer moms at the game, but with gas at $2.00/USG in Texas 25mpg looks a lot better than 12.

Minivans and trucks are nowhere near the menace on the roads SUVs are. There aren't as many of them for starters. Secondly, the users don't think they are invincible. Thirdly, cell phones weren't as prevalent when minivans were popular so the distracted fucktards driving around like they are the only people on the road were not nearly so dangerous. A minivan weighs a fair bit less than a Suburban and sits lower. That means if a minivan plows a normal sized car the person in the car has a better chance of survival. I may just notice it more but 9 out of the 10 times I have had a near miss it has been with an SUV who either failed to yield, ran a light/stop sign, or who just ASSUMED i was going to give them the right of way in the parking lot. Every time I lay on the horn at them and they act like I was the one breaking traffic laws.

I can't stand the way SUVs drive, they float, the steering is too loose.. I like a car that feels like it is stuck to the road. I honestly don't know of too many SUV owners that are all that thrilled with the way they drive either. Most SUV owners I know, when I ask them why the hell they got the thing say it was because their wife wanted it. In most cases the person that wanted the thing doesn't pay the gas bill anyway.


The more you allow people to think for themselves, the more they will try to act like everyone else.

Signed,
Abercrombie and Fitch, General Motors, Ford, Dodge, ETC.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:23 pm

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
If you have a lot of kids, get a minivan. If you need to lug a lot of stuff, get a pickup or a station wagon. There's not THAT much more cargo you can fit in an SUV than in a full-size wagon. If you need to lug that much cargo regularly, get a pickup or a van

NYCFlyer,

You need to look at the current car and truck market a little more cafefully before making such a statement. There hasn't been one full-size station wagon capable of carrying 6 to 8 passengers and towing a 5000 trailer in the market since the 1996 Chevy Caprice and Buick Roadmaster wagons!!!! Ford dropped their full-size wagons after 1991 and Chrysler dropped their large full and mid-size wagons after 1977 and 1978 respectively.

As far as pick-up trucks are concerned, for those that regularly need to carry more than 2 or 3 people; 4-door or Crew Cab models have limited availabilty; although there are more models available now than there were in the past.

Minivans, since most of them are FWD (the RWD/AWD Chevy Astro/GMC Safari vans will be dropped after this model year), heavy-duty towing is not recommended for these vehicles.

I will agree with you that large vans offered by Ford, Chevy, & GMC are a possible SUV alternative for an-all purpose people/cargo hauler and tower but, depending on engine and equipment, they get the same mileage as an SUV.

If the car CAFE standard was lowered from the current 27.5 mpg to, say, 24 mpg; maybe that will get automakers to revist the large car-based station wagon again instead of the more gas-thirsty SUVs.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
FDXmech
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:24 pm

I don't own an SUV.

Question. If SUV's got equal or better mileage than the average car, would you still hate SUV's?
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 21):
I believe it is 1 car length for every 10mph.

LOL ! That would mean two car lengths (roughly 8 m) for 20mph (32 kph)  Silly

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 19):
THANK YOU UTA for backing me up on the tailgate issue

My pleasure  Wink

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:31 pm

I drive a smaller SUV, or SRV, or whatever the hell Pontiac calls it, because I like not having to fold myself into a sedan. It gets reasonable gas mileage, and handles on a par w/many semi-sporty sedans I have owned. Size wise, it takes up about as much room as a Taurus, or any other midsize CAR, and has room for five.

As for folks not being able to see over it, I say, follow the general rule of "one car length per 10 m.p.h. of travel" when you are behind me. And if you ARE at that distance, you can see THRU my vehicle due to it's large amount of glass.

And yes, as I have said before, I get pissed off when I see the 5' soccer mom with cell phone and Starbucks in hand, driving solo in an Escalade, too!
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
nycflyer
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:38 pm

Quoting FDXmech (Reply 23):
Question. If SUV's got equal or better mileage than the average car, would you still hate SUV's?

Not quite as much, but still yes, because of not being able to through it to the next cars ahead. And it would still remain the vehicle of choice for people who need to look cool and feel tough, and people still wouldn't need them, so I would still hate SUVs.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:40 pm

From all the comments about the sizes of other men's anatomy relative to the SUVs (or whatever) they drive, one might assume that a lot of folks around here are spending more time asking others to drop their pants for short-arm inspection rather than paying attention to their own damn driving.

That said, I must admit that I recently looked at an H2 "pickup" version for the new property (up a hillside, accessable by only a gravel drive that has a small creekbed running through it). Although I like the looks of the H2 (and I know many >most?< of you don't), I'll agree with you folks that its' main purpose would seem to be a status symbol; anyway, the packaging simply isn't nearly functional enough for my upcoming uses. The old S10 will have to suffice for a while, but without 4WD, it has already offered less than required off-road performance. I'm thinking in terms of a good, ole F250 or Chev 2500 w/ extended cab and 4WD for future work. The point is, this will be my choice and I guess I'll just have to put up with others bitching at the its' size in the Home Depot parking lot and higher gas prices (which I'll bet will go WAY over $2.50/gal). The deal is, it will be MY choice.

Another point is, you will always have a difficult time legislating wants/vs needs for the populace. And, laws of physics can't be legislated either; big shit is going to cause damage to smaller shit, and it will probably burn more fuel, too (at least in the foreseeable future). Perhaps better would be to enforce current laws and actually require people to learn how to drive (and this includes the soccer moms and teenyboppers going to high school). Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 24):
LOL ! That would mean two car lengths (roughly 8 m) for 20mph (32 kph)

That is what the State of Ohio driver education handbook said.. Moronic I know.
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JAL
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:43 pm

We happen to own 2 SUVs and we haven't gotten into a single accidents. So don't say thall all SUVs drivers don't know how to drive!

Just for the record, we're very happy with our SUV!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:54 pm

I see that the tailgater flag-wavers have all failed to produce the correct criteria to apply when following another vehicle.

So here goes :

European law states that any vehicle following another one must maintain a safety distance of at least two seconds with the preceding vehicle, duration which must be proportionally increased with speed.

In the case in which the vehicle is more than 7 meters long or weighs more than 3.5 and is going at the same speed as the preceding vehicle, then a minimum safety distance of 50 meters has to be maintained at all times.

Now watch at how many people actually obey the law  Wink

UTA
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RayChuang
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:07 am

If you're complaining about SUV's, what do you say to people driving more fuel-efficient SUV's like the Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape Hybrid and Lexus RX400h?
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
what do you say to people driving more fuel-efficient SUV's like the Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape Hybrid and Lexus RX400h?

If it's in a city itt is still foolish as they don't need the increased ground clearance or the shift-on-the-fly 4WD.

UTA
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
and btw, can any of all you people yelling "Tailgater !" tell what is the correct distance you should be at when following another vehicle

It's a simple rule, easily remembered. 1 Car length for every 10 miles an hour, and if you have a challenge with that remember the two second rule. When the vehicle you're following passes an object, you count two seconds before you should pass the same object. If it's less you're too close.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I don't have a driver's license, but I do believe that it is four seconds worth of distance as a general rule.

Good for iclement weather.

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 30):
I see that the tailgater flag-wavers have all failed to produce the correct criteria

Hey, give me a chance, everyone has to sleep ya know. . . .

[Edited 2005-04-05 17:35:46]
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:26 am

I would add that some legitment purchasers of SUV's include people whom have jobs or volunteer situations that require them to be available 24/7, work at odd times, cannot get out of their work, benefit the community or have significant distances to their job and in all cases, live in areas that are subject to mud or heavy snow. This can include law enforcement officers, fire fighters (paid and volunteer), EMT's/medical rescue/ambulance (paid and volunteer), people whom maintain boilers in buildings or industrial complexes (like a neighbor of my parents does that for a college complex), small business owners or managers whom operate critical businesses (food stores, gas stations). There are some whom pull a boat or utility trailer. Some operate a small business where need room to pick up goods for resale or use in the business, yet need a passanger vehicle.
Minivans are seen by men as 'wife's vehicles' and while practical, not fun. SUV's are for men, can be fun. Yet many womem despise minivans as makes them look weak or too family oriented. I think it will be interesting when the children of the SUV generation grow up. Most tend to reject their parents ideas so would suggest they will (if partical) shift to more fuel efficient vehicles, smaller and sportier vehicles.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:32 am

Welcome tomy respected users list CaptOveur...!!!

Let me say this:

First you US guys have it soi simple...cheap gas, in a lot of other countries gasoline is not Cheap (heck not even in Mexico at 2.47 a GAL since 2 years ago).
The Us Automakers have failed miserabily in Europe due to the fact that Us cars are expensive and very fuel thirsty.
The biggest joke is that you can even use a car in its full potential, heck you go over 80 mph and you will get pulled over, at least in Mexico and some European countries you can go real fast (more than 100mph), you know what? most american (read big 3) cars do not even have good brakes to make a good stop from 110 to 0 twice without fade!, the mexican highway patrol stops a lot of speeding SUV due to the large number of accidents because of lack of brakes and blown tires.
My theory is that since in the US you cannot take a high performance car to good use the normal Joe will get a BIG SUV with ALL the luxury a BMW series 7 would have and dream about real cars...

Most people do not how to drive and with traffic as it is in Chicago, L.A. S.F. the big SUVs really make matters worse...well in 6 months when a barrel will be around 80 and gas prices at 2 90 to 3 usd I want to see SUV sales take a plunge and SUV drivers whine about gas....

I have a Minivan (Chrysler T&C) and I just take it to the highway when I go to Acapulco, Can cun etc. I have a Beetle RSI (232hp) a gas guzzler at high spped) for when I go to the track or go Alone in the highway and also I bought a Peugeot 206 for city use 1.6 liter 110 hp small car very efficient, nice economy 37 to 40 mpg and a blast to drive due to its 2050 lbs weight...
http://www.clubpeugeot.net/fotos/albums/userpics/10002/DSC04012.JPG...
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PHLBOS
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):
Minivans are seen by men as 'wife's vehicles' and while practical, not fun. SUV's are for men, can be fun. Yet many womem despise minivans as makes them look weak or too family oriented. I think it will be interesting when the children of the SUV generation grow up. Most tend to reject their parents ideas so would suggest they will (if partical) shift to more fuel efficient vehicles, smaller and sportier vehicles.

Which is one reason why the baby boomers ultimately opted for SUVs. When they first got their licenses, they opted for either the smaller and/or sportier cars; it was the early 80s and many of them were still single. However as time progressed, many of them started having families, bought extra toys like boats and/or trailers, and started to get a little big around the middle; they realized that they could no longer fit themselves and their family in their old Toyota Corolla or whatever.

Nonetheless, these fashionable baby boomers would rather be bound and gagged than resorting to purchase a newer version of what their parents drove (i.e. the large station wagon). Plus automakers didn't exactly help either by marketing sedans and wagons like the Crown Vic., Caprice, Grand Marquis, Roadmaster, Country Squire, Colony Park, etc. towards a strictly geriatric audience. Personally, I bucked that trend when I bought my new '97 Crown Vic. at the ripe old age of 31.

Plus, again, there was also the 27.5 mpg CAFE hurdle for cars to overcome. The way around it was to produce truck-based SUVs; the CAFE figure for trucks is still at 20 mpg.

Incidentally, when the Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon debuted in 1995; they were marketed as having the seat comfort and spaciousness of a Suburban without the excess size. Needless to say, it worked.
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UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:46 am

Funny seeing a Tillie with a Chevy Cavalier in the background  Smile

Nice alloys/bodykit btw.

UTA
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:37 am

I find most are not all that roadable, nor roomy, especially given their bulk and on-road poderousness,as I myself place a premium on good handling and responsiveness.

Many would be better off in one of the better, roomier sedans available, though there are instances where an SUV be practical, so long as one doesn't crave an enjoyable driving experience, and can afford to fuel it.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drive

Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 19):
So just because I post something in the airliners.net Non-Av forum, you assume it's the biggest priority in my life

I said if you feel they are a status symbol you need to rearrange your priorities, which you really should do. Stop worrying what other people buy and worry about yourself.

If your argument was just about gas consumption then I'd agree, however you are bringing in your opinion about why people are buying SUV's and I'm telling you mine.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 38):
Many would be better off in one of the better, roomier sedans available, though there are instances where an SUV be practical, so long as one doesn't crave an enjoyable driving experience, and can afford to fuel it.

Yes, in theory.

As I posted, earlier, my SUV-ish vehicle behaves pretty much as if it were a standard mid-size sedan, only a bit taller. I have the same, or more usable space inside of it as, say, an Impala, and it has a footprint of a Camry sized car.


Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 38):
find most are not all that roadable, nor roomy, especially given their bulk and on-road poderousness,as I myself place a premium on good handling and responsiveness.

Also correct, in a way.

I drove a Tahoe for a couple of days while my vehicle was in for service. I hated it. It seemed very cramped for a truck bigger than I was used to. As for handling, however, I'd happily throw one of what I drive around a test track, along with, a comparable sedan. I think I'd probably lose, but not by very much.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 39):
If your argument was just about gas consumption then I'd agree, however you are bringing in your opinion about why people are buying SUV's and I'm telling you mine.

I don't think you did give an actual opinion as to why people buy SUVs.

I always equated it to the same reason people in Texas buy such oversized pickups to haul all of nothing in them... compensation for something they lack.

A history prof I had once made an excellent analogy of slave ownership to pickup truck ownership. I won't quote it here because of the new policy against anything that has something to do with different shades of people.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:23 am

TriStarEnvy:
It's about time you start looking for an Avanti or AMC Matador Coupe.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:29 am

Naw, if I'm giving up an SUV, I'll go with a real SUV sized baby.....

Like so....

If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting JetService (Reply 7):
You see, I already think I'm better than my neighbors and I even have a huge cock.

Thank God, what a relief!  Silly

I am not sure if you'll chime in this thread again but if you do, I have a question. If GM still offered a full-size wagon (Caprice or Roadmaster Estate Wagon or Vista Cruiser), would you have bought one of those instead?
Those have more room and towing capability than the Trailblazer.
You are the target buyer of this demographic and I am sure Ford/GM and Chrysler would love to get your opinions before they decide to get back in to this market.
Bring back the Concorde
 
travelin man
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
To conclude, I think an SUV is a very selfish car to drive. IMO, it symbolizes and encompasses the worst in the American Culture of Excess.

Before you seething SUV drivers get ready to flame me, please know that like the Pope, I hate the sin, not the sinner

This just in: I don't give a sh!t about what you think of the car I drive, nor what you think that says about me. But thanks for sharing.
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
Ford/GM and Chrysler would love to get your opinions before they decide to get back in to this market.

And that'll be pretty soon, I'd wager.

The Magnum appears to be a success, and when Daimler/Chrysler sells 'em over in Europe w/a 300 clip pasted on the nose, it'll probably do well, too.

The Europeans always seem to know a good thing (station wagons) when they see it, and from the amount of true wagons being sold, it's just a matter of time before it happens here, again.

The days of the Griswald's wood paneled Family Truckster are probably gone, for good. But I think that as the SUV craze begins to wane, the station wagon will return to all the US automakers lines.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 41):
I don't think you did give an actual opinion as to why people buy SUVs.

I wasn't giving an opinion as to why people buy SUV's...I gave an opinion to his ideas.

I bought an SUV because when I need to tow stuff, or hull lumber from the lumber yard, or pick up a generator, or pile 4 people with gear and luggage to go skiing in Mont Tremblant for a week, my GMC Envoy is great for that. I couldn't do half the stuff I listed when I had my Passat. No way am I going to buy a Station wagon, I don't like them. I actually don't have an opinion as to why people buy them, as I don't care how Jon Smith spends his money as I'm not caught up in keeping up with the Smith's....
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
JetService
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
I am not sure if you'll chime in this thread again but if you do, I have a question. If GM still offered a full-size wagon (Caprice or Roadmaster Estate Wagon or Vista Cruiser), would you have bought one of those instead?
Those have more room and towing capability than the Trailblazer.
You are the target buyer of this demographic and I am sure Ford/GM and Chrysler would love to get your opinions before they decide to get back in to this market.

That's a great question. I would think the TB would have better towing capabilities, but if they could show me that they are the same, then I would want to see the wagon to decide. If it came out an 'undecided', I would likely lean toward the TB only because winters can get nasty here (granted for only about three months). But I wouldn't flat out refuse to consider it. I'm partial to wagons. Some of them are actually quite nice. One thing I do miss about my car is the pick-up if had for merging onto freeways and getting through traffic. I suspect a stationwagon would have a V8 and perform better in this area (as long as I'm not towing a boat of course  Silly )
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Superfly
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RE: Why I Hate SUVs (and Have Issues W/their Drivers)

Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:14 am

JetService:
Here are some useless facts considering there are no full-sized stationwagons to compare it with.
Your Trailblazer's 4.2L I6 engine with 24 valve puts out 275@6000hp.
That's top end horsepower.
The last GM wagons (1996) had class III towing capability with it's 350cu" V8 engine that put out 260hp@4200rpms.
The new engine offered in this class is a 6.0 V8 that I am sure is even superior to the last 350cu" V8s.



I am sure you'd want your kids to have the same great experience riding in the back of wagons as you did; fighting with your brothers & sisters.  Silly

Now if there was a woodgrain side panel offering, I am sure that would push you and Mrs. JetService over the edge and buy a wagon. Big grin
Bring back the Concorde

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