aak777
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 10:07 pm

Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:09 am

I dont, Do you?
Just want to open a discussion among A.net users and see the different opinions, so tell us what you think.
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:14 am

Evolution is the established scientific theory of the development of the species. I not only accept those scientific findings, but I staunchly oppose the Christian fundamentalist movement that wants to either limit the teaching of evolution, or present it as a possible option side by side with creationism. It is appalling that so many young people subject to these fundamentalist school boards are going to enter university with a tremendous handicap. Teaching superstition is not a substitute for science!

[Edited 2005-04-20 22:30:35]
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:15 am

Anyone who doesn't believe it either hasn't read it, or has limited background in science.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:27 am

Absolutely.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Kieron747
Posts: 2461
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:17 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:28 am

I am a very strong believer in evolution and am an atheist. My background is scientific and I have studied genetics extensively, and one of my favourite books is Darwin's "On The Origin of Species".

In my opinion, it is the only theory that fits my understanding of the world (which I openly admit may be incorrect) and the way I see things. I know many people who don't believe in it, including a few scientists, who take the view that evolution is a fact, yet there is still a God-like force behind it all.

I also know people who refuse point blank to accept that humans came from primates. I believe that we did. My current flatmate is a scientist, his religion is Islam, and he believes in evolution - for every lifeform on the Earth except humans.

Now in my mind, his theory is sheer lunacy, but who am I to comment on it? He is happy with his explanation, I happen to think its a complete load of manure but I'm not going to argue too much with him (I have tried- and failed!  Wink)

I think that the fact that certain educational establishments do not teach evolution theory is a serious crime. If people want to teach creation theory- fine, but at least let people hear the other possible explanation!

Kieron747
Airliners.Net - The Jam Rag Of The Web.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:34 am

No I do not, it has been proven several times that it is utter bullshit.
 
Kieron747
Posts: 2461
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:17 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Leviticus (Reply 5):
No I do not, it has been proven several times that it is utter bullshit.

Have you any evidence of this 'proof' to back up your statement?
Airliners.Net - The Jam Rag Of The Web.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:43 am

Of course I do. It is scientifically proven. What else should it be??? Funny question. It is not, to believe in it or not, it is fact.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:47 am

Evolution and the existence of an omnipotent creator are not mutually exclusive. To me, what's really sad is that creationists don't understand that.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:48 am

Definitely yes.

I also believe in the theory of mechanics, including gravity (a very nice theory that allows me to predict that if I drop something it will fall), etc. I believe in the theory that the earth is round and the theory that it orbits the sun due to the mechanics mentioned in the previous sentence. All scientific evidence points clearly to the conclusion that these theories are valid. They can be used to make many accurate extrapolations and predictions, the hallmark of all theories that have held up to scientific scrutiny. Evolution is one such well-established theory.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 7):
Of course I do. It is scientifically proven.

It is as proven as a scientific hypothesis can be, just as with all the above examples. While I cannot personally understand why, there are people who continue to believe that the earth is flat, that the sun goes around it, and/or that evolution (natural selection) has not occurred and is not currently continuing--even though we can WATCH it happening in various species today, and see it in humans within recent history too (for example, consider the difference between the average height of humans now versus 300 years ago, etc.).

Anyone should be able to hold any religious beliefs they want, but these should not be taught in SCIENCE class, at least until people have a thorough understanding of what the scientific process is and how it works. As MD11Engineer (I think it was) said in another thread, it is a shame how many people are taught science as though it were a bunch of facts, conclusions, or formulas to memorize--rather than method of critical thinking and experimental process, which continually seeks to disprove its theories and see how well they hold up. If people learned to really think scientifically rather than memorize without understanding, there would be a lot more interest in science classes, not to mention less bizarre belief in things such as astrology...

[Edited 2005-04-20 23:06:32]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting Leviticus (Reply 5):
No I do not, it has been proven several times that it is utter bullshit.

You forgot the "Signed, Your New Pope" part at the end of your post.
 
SK A340
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:44 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:48 am

I see it as an axiom, like the main clauses of thermodynamics. So, the answer is; Yes I believe in it until someone comes up with a proof/example that it's false.

/Micke
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 6):
Have you any evidence of this 'proof' to back up your statement?

Well first of all it has never been proven, hence the name, Evolution THEORY, there are today no evidence that clearly shows the transformation for instance ape to human (I believe of course that there is SOME form of evolution on our planet, but a better word for it is progress and adjustments, that things change, but this thread seems to be about the theory of creation of mankind so I will leave it there). Also, all the latest research show (look for articles in Newsweek and Popular Science from January this year) that the different kinds of creatures developed from monkeys (homo erectus, homo whatever etc.) never actually met/lived together or had close relations/sexual contact. So the so called chain would have been broken several times. Now I do not know for sure how we got were we are today, but the theories of Darwin, they just can not be correct.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
You forgot the "Signed, Your New Pope" part at the end of your post.

Oops, my bad ! From now on I will add "/Benedict XVI" to my signature field.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 2):
Anyone who doesn't believe it either hasn't read it, or has limited background in science.

Why?
It is still a "theory". Nothing has changed yet [about it, of course].
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:04 am

YES!!!



It's perposterous to think that 1 man, then one woman just mysteriously appeared and the whole world was begat..
This space intentionally left blank
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:05 am

First off, I think everyone should get this: Evolution does NOT, I repeat... DOES NOT give an explanation for the creation of LIFE. Forget the title of Darwin's book, it has been miscontrued. Also, evolution does NOT say that humans are descended from monkeys.

As for myself, having gone through a University major that included many classes in evolution mechanisms, I can't see how it is false. There are just so many examples out there which point to evolution and Natural Selection occuring all the time. We know that it happens on the microbal level, and it sure as hell happens on the species level.

If anyone wants to discuss this calmly, I can go into details.

EDIT: Those who say that it is a "theory" need to know that Relativity and the concept of Gravity are still "theories.

[Edited 2005-04-20 23:07:17]
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
A319114
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:40 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:07 am

Though the theory is true for the most part, there are some gaps in it. For example, how did birds evolve from land creatures to flying creatures? It wasn't like a dino all of the sudden got feather and big fat wings and flew away. It must have went very slow, each generation having more bird like properties. However, some of these 'intermediate' birds must have had significantly problems with their half grown wings, not being able to move very well. However, they didn't get hunt or starved to death not being able to find food in a efficient way, and that's a bit strange. It contradicts with 'the survival of the fittest'. There are more examples like this.
In other words, though I believe the evolution theory is correct in most cases, it doesn't explain everything.
Also, keep in mind that nearly every theory is constantly evolving (the irony  Wink), and not a single theory is totally, 100%, right (that's exactly why they're called theories). Same thing goes for chemistry and physics theories. They are a workable model which explains almost everything, and keep changing.
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
It's perposterous to think that 1 man, then one woman just mysteriously appeared and the whole world was begat..

Dude, just because you disagree with the evolution theory does not mean that you fully accept the story of Adam and Eve, in my eyes that is crap too. There must be a third and more resoable solution to the issue.

[Edited 2005-04-20 23:08:46]
 
Soku39
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:08 am

TWfirst, the religious ones that I've talked to understand that. To me it seems much the opposite. It is a theory, and no one in the scientific community can seem to stomach this. ie.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 7):
Of course I do. It is scientifically proven. What else should it be??? Funny question. It is not, to believe in it or not, it is fact.

yep by 5 fossils, oh wait one of those ended up just being pig teeth, well fine, 4, oh wait one of them was glued together, oh ya nevermind....

It is so arrogant to say only one thing should be taught.

Some of you need to give "darwin's black box" or "darwin on trial" a good read.
The Ohio Player
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:10 am

Let's face it here. There's basically two camps... those that believe in evolution, and those that believe in creation. Evolution is a scientific theory. Creation is a religious church teaching. So, since the Church has admitted being wrong about the Earth being flat and the Earth being at the center of the Universe, How many centuries will it take before the Church owns up to their mistake on creation and embrace evolution?

[Edited 2005-04-20 23:15:03]
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 14):
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 2):
Anyone who doesn't believe it either hasn't read it, or has limited background in science.

Why?
It is still a "theory". Nothing has changed yet [about it, of course].

TACAA (and Leviticus), you have just proven 777236ER's point. Only a limited background in science allows people to claim that a "THEORY" means it has not been upheld by the evidence. As my earlier post explains, gravity is also a "theory."

You are welcome to not believe it. But the way you articulate this belief does indeed show a limited background in science. This is what I mean about how science needs to be taught better...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 20):
So, since the Church has been wrong about the Earth being flat and the Earth being at the center of the Universe,

Which one?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:17 am

Which one what? Which mistake? or Which church? If you mean which church, I mean not only the Roman Catholic Church, but the entire Christian theology.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:29 am

Pa110 If you have some minutes to spare, read this http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/0102-97/Article3.html
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Arniepie
Posts: 1429
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 16):
EDIT: Those who say that it is a "theory" need to know that Relativity and the concept of Gravity are still "theories

Relativity is already proven by observing shifts from the orbits of the Laser Geodynamics Satellite I (LAGEOS I), a NASA spacecraft, and LAGEOS II, a joint NASA/Italian Space Agency (ASI) spacecraft.

Therefore you can also state that gravity is proven.


As for evolution, the evidence is so overwhelming that creationism is nothing more than an extremely unlikely unproven possibility.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 16):
First off, I think everyone should get this: Evolution does NOT, I repeat... DOES NOT give an explanation for the creation of LIFE. Forget the title of Darwin's book, it has been miscontrued. Also, evolution does NOT say that humans are descended from monkeys.

There are actually a lot Studies out there that SUGGEST it is most likely that life evolved from "death" material.
Given enough time and the right circumstances life from death is actually inevitable.

Last, indeed it is not proven beyond all possible doubt that men evolved from the apes but lets be honest given everything they know about genetics and the way evolution works it is very unlikeky that we actually don't decent from a type of ape.
It is even so that there where a lot of humanoid type descendants (Neanderthal just being 1 of them), the fact that we , up until now, are the sole survivors and dominant species just means that we had the most luck and the best cards.
[edit post]
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 24):
Pa110 If you have some minutes to spare, read this http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodic....html

Thank you Taca, I did read it - with great interest. Although I would dispute some of the assertions as a basic matter of personal belief, it would seem that I am guilty of holding some preconceived notions about official Catholic positions on evolution. I apologize.

However, as far as the U.S. fundamentalist christian communities who insist that creationism be taught as an equal of evolution, I pity the children who are handicapped by this limiting of their education and their disadvantages entering a world where scientific understanding and comprehension is increasingly important.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Leviticus (Reply 18):
Dude, just because you disagree with the evolution theory

Umm I don't disagree with evolution!! I disagree that we mysteriously appeared here..

Quoting Leviticus (Reply 18):
There must be a third and more resoable solution to the issue

Yes there is.. it's called

Quoting A319114 (Reply 17):
there are some gaps in it.

Filling in the gaps.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 20):
How many centuries will it take before the Church owns up to their mistakes on creation and embrace evolution?

Ummm, never... This is one of the last bastions of chruch tennet that would end the church if unoquiovcially proven. This is why I can't wait until we have genuine proof that ther is life on other planets, and I'm not just talking about at the cellular level. Show me an A REAL Alien(from another planet), and I'll show you a billion people who can't account for alien life in the bible!!
This space intentionally left blank
 
F9Widebody
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:53 am

Survival of the fittest? Yes.

Evolution? No.
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 28):
Survival of the fittest? Yes

When it comes to Humans, NO.
Because we are a benovelent society we take care of those less fortunate, allowing them to breed/reproduce and generate more inferior stock into the pool. Try www.darwinawards.com for examples  Smile
This space intentionally left blank
 
Arniepie
Posts: 1429
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 28):
Survival of the fittest? Yes.

Evolution? No.

Survival of the fittest is actually an important part in evolution.
Care to elaborate on your somewhat unique view?
[edit post]
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:00 am

Leviticus: Well first of all it has never been proven, hence the name, Evolution THEORY,

No, that is an incorrect interpretation which is only used by people who have no insight into science at all.

Everything in science is built from theories - physics, chemistry, biology and every other science.

Some theories turn out to be inconsistent with verifiable observations - those theories are to be rejected. Such as the earth being flat, the sun revolving around the earth, the earth being only about 5000 years old or humans being entirely different from all other species. Those have been found to be inconsistent and have therefore been discarded.

Other theories turn out to be consistent with verifiable observations, and the more consistent they turn out to be, and the more predictions those theories can make which turn out to be correct, the more solid they are considered to be. The foundation and the framework of every science is built from such confirmed and load-bearing theories.

In some cases new observations require an overhaul and modifications to the thoretical framework so it can be made consistent again with the expanded range of observations.

I´m sorry that I have to tell you, but the fundamental theory of evolution has been found highly consistent with observations beginning with Charles Darwin right through to today´s molecular genetics. And beautifully so.

On the other hand, the theory that whoever told you that a "theory" was something inherently unreliable was trustworthy in any way is thereby found to be inconsistent with reality. So you should be very, very careful about believing anything else the same source is telling you. It´s probably false as well.


Leviticus: there are today no evidence that clearly shows the transformation for instance ape to human

Incorrect. The evolution of the human species has taken place in a very short time and with a relatively small number of individuals, so a somewhat sparse fossile record is to be expected. But up to this point, the findings are highly consistent with humanity having evolved from common ancestors with other contemporary primates.

At the same time there are no findings which plausibly contradict the theory of evolution, so it is still viable (and highly plausible) as a valid explanation of the actual processes.


Leviticus: I believe of course that there is SOME form of evolution on our planet, but a better word for it is progress and adjustments

It seems you can´t escape reality altogether.


Leviticus: Also, all the latest research show (look for articles in Newsweek and Popular Science from January this year) that the different kinds of creatures developed from monkeys (homo erectus, homo whatever etc.) never actually met/lived together or had close relations/sexual contact. So the so called chain would have been broken several times.

By the sound of it, that´s probably from the same source that told you a theory was something insufficient in science. Sorry, but this statement is not consistent with any finding I´m aware of. It seems to be yet another misunderstanding of the existing state of fossile discoveries.

Of course we do not have one fossil from every generation which ever lived, so naturally it is not a completely closed chain. But that has never been required for a confirmation of the evolution principle. Who told you such a thing?


Leviticus: Now I do not know for sure how we got were we are today, but the theories of Darwin, they just can not be correct.

No, you´ve just been told some very weird conclusions by people who don´t understand how science actually works.


You need to make a decision:

Will you try to understand as much as possible, even if it is difficult?

Or will you give up and choose a simple explanation that´s easier to understand, even if it is wrong?
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:01 am

I believe in God, or a higher power if you will. I think ALL the religions of the world have good points and bad points. And I also think they ALL have it wrong on many issues. So I just stick with God and let the rest fall into place. If there is an afterlife I suppose it will all be revealed to me if it's meant to be.

I'm of the opinion that there was a creative force in the scheme of things. But who's to say at what point evolution was left to carry on. The physical evidence of evolution is pretty overwhelming, there are gaps in knowledge of course. But if science is to be believed, this process has been going on for millions of years.

And we ARE evolving even now. The average height of humans has been increasing slightly for the past couple of centuries. So maybe we didn't jump out trees and start walking upright. But maybe we evolved parallel to other primates who reached thier developmental peak as apes and monkeys, and we went further.

In many ways I think religion developed to explain those things that were unexplainable at the time. Ever read Norse or Greek or Egyptian mythology? The explanations forwarded for creation in those ancient religions are no more or less unbelievable than those found in the Bible, for instance.

So who's to say, really? My theory works for me.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5438
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:04 am

Quoting A319114 (Reply 17):
However, some of these 'intermediate' birds must have had significantly problems with their half grown wings, not being able to move very well. However, they didn't get hunt or starved to death not being able to find food in a efficient way, and that's a bit strange.

Just look at penguins. They're nothing but funny while on the ground but once they get into the water they're just like some underwater bullets and seem to have no problem at all finding food.

Quoting A319114 (Reply 17):
It contradicts with 'the survival of the fittest'.

Not necessarily, I believe. They evolution played its role in adapting them to survive as species in harsh conditions - be it their swimming abilities or ability to keep the egg nice an warm in between their legs. The "survival of the fittest" still applies to individual penguins being or not being strong enough able to fight for food, escape predators, etc.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:29 am

You need to consider that "survival of the fittest" does not mean survival of the meanest. The fitness of a species can be enhanced very much by developing a social structure which cares for the individual and thus makes the community stronger. Many species have exploited this possibility: Humans, ants, bees, lions, even vampire bats and many others.

Oversimplification is the key to most misunderstandings of the theory of evolution.
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4309
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:31 am

Yes, I do....... or those little skeletons we find are of aliens  eek 
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:34 am

What if natural selection/evolution was the method used by God to create humans?

Here's another stumper, what evidence do we have that all hominid evolution was designed to le4ad specifically to us? Hell, Homo Erectus lasted substantially longer than we have so far. We could be a failed dead end in the homind line, as well.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 8):
To me, what's really sad is that creationists don't understand that.

Everybody is entitle to their own opinion regardless if it is right or wrong.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 21):
You are welcome to not believe it

Very kind of you. And Yes, with alldue respect, I don't believe it.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
zotan
Posts: 582
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:42 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:37 am

A scientific theory is much different than just a normal theory. A scientific theory is backed up with hundreds of observations, studies etc.

I believe in Evolution. Anyone who belives otherwise is narrowminded, and stubborn. Pope John Paul 2 even believed in it! Why is that evolution has to go against religion? What if god just put a single celled organism on the planet and just let it go from that?
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:41 am

LHMARK: What if natural selection/evolution was the method used by God to create humans?

Could be. But no observation-consistent theory so far needs to introduce a god in order for it to work. So it would be a very weak assumption in that sense. A superfluous assumption is usually optimized away as far as science is concerned. But who knows...


LHMARK: Here's another stumper, what evidence do we have that all hominid evolution was designed to le4ad specifically to us?

None. All evidence is highly consistent with the conclusion that we just happened to come out on top. All the extinct branches we know about would be superfluous under that assumption.


LHMARK: Hell, Homo Erectus lasted substantially longer than we have so far. We could be a failed dead end in the homind line, as well.

Absolutely, that possibility is still wide open.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Absolutely, that possibility is still wide open

Judging by Reality TV, I'd say it's likely
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 38):
Anyone who belives otherwise is narrowminded, and stubborn

In another words, anyone who differs from you is narrowminded, and stubborn.

That's the greatest post of this day.

[Edited 2005-04-21 00:44:14]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:45 am

TACAA320: Everybody is entitle to their own opinion regardless if it is right or wrong.

Sure. And I try to choose opinions which are demonstrably consistent with reality. It´s not always easy, but science has been the most successful strategy to achieve that goal so far when it´s about the physical world (and some parts of our minds).
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:47 am

LHMARK: Judging by Reality TV, I'd say it's likely

Difficult to argue thatBig grin
But maybe still not too late after all...
 
flyboy1980
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:41 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:48 am

I believe in evolution. Klaus's explanation of Evolution and the meaning of the word "theory" was particularly good. Thanks Klaus  Smile

I look at it this way - religion is based on "faith" - a belief in the absence of evidence. Thousands of years of hearsay and a wordy old book (no offence intended) is not evidence to me.

While Evolution undoubtedly is not perfect, it provides the most compelling answers based on observations and actual physical evidence.

It's like the common cold - everyone thinks you catch a cold by being cold, when in fact a cold is a virus, passed from person to person. But because for so long people have said that you catch it from being cold, that's what everyone believes.

Just because the bible and years of people saying that everything was created doesn't actually make it true.
 
Lemmy
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:40 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:46 am

The real tragedy here has been the influence of these "Intelligent Design" nutjobs who are forcing their religious preferences into our public schools. Their argument is that, so long as there is an alternative theory (no matter how silly or inferior), you have to teach it in the classroom.

These flat-earth types are forcing junior-high science teachers to waste valuable classroom time on a subject (creationism) that is laughed at in 99% of university science departments. Way to go, guys!
I am a patient boy ...
 
F9Widebody
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Arniepie (Reply 30):
Survival of the fittest is actually an important part in evolution.
Care to elaborate on your somewhat unique view?

Sure. I believe that within species (not humans), those that are more fit, will naturally survive longer with their advantages (Basic Darwinian Theory - with the finches). It is only natural that this will happen. On the other hand, I don't agree with the widespread theory of evolution from monkeys. I don't think that such dramatic mutations occured. I also don't believe that humans or any animals came from microscopic lifeforms.

Regards
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:20 am

At this point in time there is no matter explanation than the Theory of Evolution of Life on Earth. So yes I do wholeheartedly accept it as
how we came about.

Quoting A319114 (Reply 17):
For example, how did birds evolve from land creatures to flying creatures?

It's a matter of debate, however if you look at the skeleton of some of the later dinosaurs like Gallomimus, the various Oviraptor and Velociraptor type species, not to mention Archeopteryx we see the physical similarities in bone density, and in some cases the telltale fossil imprints of rudimentary feathers (a la Ostrich like) and most importantly signs they were warm blooded and able to regulate heat for themselves and survive climatic changes that regular dinosaurs couldn't.
Towards the end of the Cretaceous period of the dinosaur reign there were already evolved the early birds like the modern Hoatzin (that still has claws on wings) and in all likelyhood it is these species that evolved to present form. It is likely that like most evolutionary abilities flight was developed quite by accident (like gliding from a higher point to a lower one), and slowly but surely enhanced and developed the skill and the physical attributes to fill an untapped survival niche that obviously today's birds have used to maximum advantage.

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 36):
what evidence do we have that all hominid evolution was designed to le4ad specifically to us? Hell, Homo Erectus lasted substantially longer than we have so far. We could be a failed dead end in the homind line, as well.

We don't have evidence to prove they evolved into us specifically. There is no doubt that many of these hominids were destined to end with their line, but what Anthropologists do is determine which are the likely species to have continued on a line of least resistence to us. And yes we could well be a failed dead end, but only time will tell. The thing is, that unlike earlier hominids we don't have a species in competition with us for survival in the same niche, and that is generally a major factor in the 'end of line' happening. Robust Australopithicines and later Neanderthals are evidence of direct competition, with only the best strategy for their environments surviving long enough to evolve into the next step.

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 38):
Why is that evolution has to go against religion?

Think about it. Evolution is a harsh process, It would contradict everything the Bible says that 'God' is a Compassionate and loving God that loves us all individually. An Evolutionary God doesn't give a toss about what survives and what doesn't, as long as it survives. Life itself survives on luck and playing the odds for as long as it can before folding it's hand, and even Life has been caught out by things outside of it's jurisdiction . (A God that plays Russian Roulette with our lives just for the hell of it? Not a nice 'Bible' God, and contradictory to one that would set 10 simple rules of clean living to save our souls).

Evolution has had periods in history where it obviously lost control of what it was creating and periods of mass extinction followed. If an evolutionary God does not have absolute control over what it creates (as Evolution suggests) and just lets things take their course without influence, He cannot therefore create a monosexual reproduction (it only took Mary) to grow into a human male, have genes that didn't exist in the generation before that allow it to walk on water or raise itself from death to life. These traits would obviously all be beneficial to human survival, yet they apparently died out without even one generation of reproduction - that goes against evolution.

Because of this Jesus as the Miraculous Son of God is an Evolutionary Contradiction, as much as the Creationist theory is. Why would someone Smarter,fitter,stronger and allround better than the rest of us humans not survive to reproduce/ensure his new traits survival? especially if he knew what was going to happen to him, as he supposedly did. That is why I think that the two theories cannot overlap. Whichever side you are on there are just too many discrepancies for it to be the case.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
bezoar
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:26 am

Microevolution has been demonstrated to some degree. These are the minor and limited adaptations clearly demonstrable within a species, like changes in markings. It does not lend itself to explaining the big picture, however.

The big picture is macroevolution, the emergence of new species. The logical conclusion of this theory is that humans evolved from earlier species. In actuality this theory has huge gaps that even those who support the theory cannot explain them away.

A few points:

1) Evolution does not explain how life came into existence in the first place. The experiments trying to recreate a primordial soup was able to produce a few precursors to protein molecules, but it also created so much toxic stuff, like formaldehyde and cyanide, that life would have never had a chance. Besides, having precursors to proteins really doesnÕt get you very far.

2) Even if one has all the ingredients to constitute a life form in a solution, no matter how primitive, one could not create life from it. There is no inherent nature that would cause these building blocks to form under any known conditions. If we could do that, we could take the dead and make them live again. We have no clue as what the spark of life is.

3) Evolution has to assume that DNA or RNA was formed first. Anyone with a clue about the incredibly complex structure of DNA or RNA would know that the odds of that happening by chance is virtually impossible.

4) Evolution cannot explain the Cambrian explosion, also called the Òbiological big bang.Õ Prior to the Cambrian period there were some worms, jellyfish, and sponges. Suddenly, in a short period of time most of the major groups of animals appeared. DarwinÕs tree of evolution predicted that life would slowly branch out over prolonged periods of time. The Cambrian explosion was not a tree, but an entire forest at once. Scientists doubt that this sudden arrival of life forms to be explained by an enormous gap in the fossil record.

For anyone interested in these statements should read Lee StrobelÕs ÒThe Case For A Creator.Ó

We take our lives for granted. Yet we donÕt realize how miraculous they are, that we sit here at our computers communicating with other living, thinking beings. Realize that our molecules were once part of some huge cosmic explosion eons ago. How can one not see the hand of creator in all of this? Would you rather believe that you came from the primordial ooze, or that your uncle was an ape?

For some reason mankind has tried to use science to explain things as if God was not necessary. We think that if we can explain something, that we donÕt need God. As a result, we often force the findings and experiments to prove our pre-existing belief.

Science can observe and predict, but it cannot explain everything. It should be thought of as a tool, but not the tool that can answer all of our questions about the universe.

Atheists often challenge believers to prove that God exists. I say to the atheists, prove that He does not, because the evidence actually says otherwise. No one has ever done it, because it simply is impossible to do.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
PacificWestern
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In The Theory Of Evolution

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:27 am

Based upon the guys I've dated, I would have to say I have irrefutable proof that evolution does indeed exist!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Derico and 27 guests