yukimizake
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:20 am

F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:31 am

He sucks.



















He really sucks.
'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
 
Usairwys757
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:35 am

Who cares









Who really cares?
Inactive.....
 
senorcarnival
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:59 am

And you only now came to that brilliant conclusion? You're about 2 years too late, buddy.
Oh no, she's getting impatient! Take a stab at it!
 
Springbok747
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 2):
And you only now came to that brilliant conclusion? You're about 2 years too late, buddy.

True.

His 5th place with Minardi was nothing more than a total fluke.
We'll just have to see if he can get more points that way, guess that's the only way Williams can hope to get points this season, they can forget about being in the top 3.

Renault look unstoppable, but Schuey was so awesome, coming from 13th, hope Ferrari can maintain that pace.
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senorcarnival
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:26 pm

Mark Webber reminds me of a certain Heinz Harald Frentzen...a young, brash driver who got a few good results with his previous middle of the pack ride and never made it with the big boys.
Oh no, she's getting impatient! Take a stab at it!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:51 pm

He is a good driver. But the way formula one has gone in recent years is that the car is a larger part of the equation then the driver. And as we have all seen the Williams in the past few years have been less then brilliant.
 
76731K
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:31 pm

I don't think he's so bad as to say he really sucks, but then I wouldn't say he's very good either, just average in my book. However Williams have not been too sparkling this year either so that may be a contributing factor to the not so good performance.
 
Biggles
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:54 pm

He's a good driver,but he's having a bad year..
 
pipo777
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sun May 01, 2005 10:18 am

Overrated...The guy had 1 good race with Minardi and a couple of good qualifying, that's about it. I thought he would be able to do something with Williams, but so far has been nothing but disappointment...too many stupid mistakes...

Yeah, Williams BMW doesn't have the best car this year, but Nick Heidfeld has been constantly better than him.

He reminds me of Juan Pablo Montoya, they both talk too much...only difference is that JPM has a couple of wins to back-up his talk.
 
Amy
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sun May 01, 2005 11:00 am

How long do you see Webber staying in F1? I feel the few results he does have could keep him in the middle pack teams for a good few seasons. I think he'll need podiums to secure a better drive after his time at Williams.

Have I missed something? Did Webber say something controvertial at Imola? Surely he can't beat the man who talks the talk but can never really drive the drive: DC
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sun May 01, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting Amy (Reply 9):
Have I missed something? Did Webber say something controvertial at Imola? Surely he can't beat the man who talks the talk but can never really drive the drive: DC

Webber will stay longer then DC. DC is the master of saying this year is my year and never delivering. I think this year is the only year he has come out with a realistic prediction.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sun May 01, 2005 10:00 pm

I think the biggest problem with Webber is that he is Australian, and Australia puts a lot of pressure on it's teams & individuals to win and be the best. When he got 5th on debut they put unrealistic expectations on him to compete with the big guns which he isn't able to deliver on, and when you feel like you aren't performing you become preoccupied with failing and not on driving so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. As far as individual flair and talent, there are actually a fair number in the field I would rate as better currently, but that shouldn't stop him on race day. After all Montoya has done ok, and he isn't a particularly good driver. It comes down to luck, It helps if you have the best skills in the field at any given track to put the luck in your favour though.

This year's championship will be between Alonso and Schumacher Snr again this year. I'm hoping Schumacher wins, but now there's a new renault (and the prospect of a second shortly) in the family driveway there are a few divided loyalties, but to Ferrari I must stay true.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Sun May 01, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 11):
I think the biggest problem with Webber is that he is Australian, and Australia puts a lot of pressure on it's teams & individuals to win and be the best.

Exactly - the media is rather orgasmic every time Webber is involved in any major international competition.

The guy is overrated and you can practically see the stresses caused by having 20million people betting on him each time he takes the wheel.

Perhaps if given the room to flourish he could reach the top, but not as current circumstances stand.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
yukimizake
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:20 am

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 10):
Webber will stay longer then DC. DC is the master of saying this year is my year and never delivering

I would rate DC better than Webber, has enough race wins and podiums finishes to be outspoken. This is what bugs me about Webber, for where he is and what he's accomplished he's way too outspoken.

I can understand how the pressure from the Australian media must be difficult, but this is nothing compared to the pressure of having a competent teammate. This is something new for him, until now his teammates have not been that good. Maybe now he is beginning to crack under the pressure, the mistakes he made at San Marino (letting Sato and Villeneuve by with relative ease) could be a sign of this.
'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
 
USAF757300
Posts: 229
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 10:28 am

Give me NASCAR, or IRL anyday. Much more exciting IMO.
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1707
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 10:50 am

Mark Webber is a strictly average driver in my mind. I agree with above posts saying that people overreacted to his 5th place drive in the Minardi and expected that he could do much better. While I'd like to say that it takes a lot of talent to finish that high in a Minardi, I'm reluctant to say that Webber has oodles of skill since he's never beaten that finishing position in much better Jaguar and Williams rides.

I think it's simply a case of expecting way too much from a guy with one great run -- similar to Frentzen, as was pointed out above -- although Frentzen actually managed to contend fo the WDC with Jordan. I don't predict Webber to ever be considered a Championship contender.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 12:14 pm

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 15):
I don't predict Webber to ever be considered a Championship contender.

Not as long as there is M.Schumacher, Alonso, Trulli, Barrichello, Räikkönen, Coulthard, Heidfeld, Fisichella,R Schumacher, Button & Montoya who consistently perform better than he does. There are even drivers with slower midfield cars that are not too different in terms of talent like Sato, Klien. It'll be a tough road that's for sure. That said, the fact he can even drive a Formula 1 car in the championship means he is a bloody skilled driver.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Amy
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:48 am

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 14):
Give me NASCAR, or IRL anyday. Much more exciting IMO.

If you dont give a s**t about F1 then don't post on this thread! It's a simple premise.

I don't think Webber has the experience and the results to speak out, if indeed he has done so. He's not shit, very few F1 drivers are that bad, he's just not consistently fast enough to be right up at the top and nor is his steed. He lacks the results to get a really good drive so he'll probably be a DC or Fisi kind of character, the occasional podium, soild drive, but nothing amazing.

Australia's motorsport obsession in the media won't help him.
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting Amy (Reply 17):
Australia's motorsport obsession in the media won't help him.

Yup. You should've seen the media during the Australian F1 GP. The ONLY thing on every damn program was Mark Webber and his "new" Williams drive. People were going crazy during the race, but when Webber failed to deliver (no surprise there!) they started supporting Renault/Ferrari...haha.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 12):
Exactly - the media is rather orgasmic every time Webber is involved in any major international competition.

Haha..very true QFF!

IMO Webber is just an average driver, obviously you have to be good to get into F1. But, good is not enough....I wonder what Frank Williams was thinking getting Webber into Williams. They should've given to drive to Button or hell even Wurz...he was awesome in the McLaren.
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USAF757300
Posts: 229
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 1:17 pm

Quoting Amy (Reply 17):
If you dont give a s**t about F1 then don't post on this thread! It's a simple premise.

hey relax a little bit ok? NASCAR is def. more exciting and so is IRL. Ive seen two F1 Grand Prix` and I would still rather go to NASCAR, anyday of the week.


USAF757300
 
VH-KCT*
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 2:10 pm

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 19):
NASCAR is def. more exciting and so is IRL.

That's lovely, but if you read the thread title, we aren't discussing whether or not you enjoy F1. If you want to start a F1 v. IRL/Indy/NASCAR/whatever brawl (which I feel few here are interested in) then start one.

I too get annoyed seeing Webber talk it up, only to get in some mid-field battle with Heidfeld, and his qualifying too often gives false hope. Perhaps he has Trulli's old problem - 2 laps and he falls asleep.
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monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 11):
I think the biggest problem with Webber is that he is Australian, and Australia puts a lot of pressure on it's teams & individuals to win and be the best.

Yeah "Tall Poppy Syndrome" is my biggest gripe about Australia. Any sport team that does well, or doesn't gets nagged and nagged by armchair media putting the word on them.

Webber does talk crap. But the media here in AUS doesn't help him, they talk more crap than he does!

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 12):
Exactly - the media is rather orgasmic every time Webber is involved in any major international competition.

Yeah, he did some hike or rally or something in Tasmania in the F1 off season and people went ballistic.

Quoting Yukimizake (Reply 13):
I can understand how the pressure from the Australian media must be difficult, but this is nothing compared to the pressure of having a competent teammate.

The pressure of a whole countries media vs. the pressure of competition by a teammate? Where is the comparison?

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 14):
Give me NASCAR

Is that the one where they do 100 laps in a circle?

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 15):
I don't predict Webber to ever be considered a Championship contender.

I agree, but that is true of half the F1 drivers.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
bill142
Posts: 7861
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Mon May 02, 2005 10:21 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 21):
Webber does talk crap

Motorsport is dominated by ego. They all talk crap.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 12):
Perhaps if given the room to flourish he could reach the top, but not as current circumstances stand

It would also help if Williams could get their act togeather.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 18):
They should've given to drive to Button

Button was meant to partner Webber. But there were contractual issues and in the end BAR won the fight for his services in 2005. 2006 could be a different story.
As for Wurz he has apparently been offered drives in the past but has turned them down to stay with McLaren. However for someone who hasn't raced in 3 years I think it was he did a pretty good job. Maybe he will get a full time drive in 2006.
 
Biggles
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:19 am

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Tue May 03, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Amy (Reply 17):
If you dont give a s**t about F1 then don't post on this thread! It's a simple premise.

Nice one !!

NASCAR=The John-Boy Walton School of Turning Left...
 
yukimizake
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:20 am

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Tue May 03, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 21):
Quoting Yukimizake (Reply 13):
I can understand how the pressure from the Australian media must be difficult, but this is nothing compared to the pressure of having a competent teammate.

The pressure of a whole countries media vs. the pressure of competition by a teammate? Where is the comparison?

The pressure of the Australian media is of no concern to Frank Williams and the F1 community in general, hopefully for Webber's sake he doesn't pay too much to this. However, the worst thing for any F1 driver is to be outperformed by a teammate in an identical car. This will definitely get the attention of Frank Williams & Co., just look at the pressure Jacques Villeneuve had been under until his solid drive in San Marino.
'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Tue May 03, 2005 9:16 pm

Quoting Biggles (Reply 23):
NASCAR=The John-Boy Walton School of Turning Left...

Ok, so can someone tell me what is so exciting about 30 cars going around in a circle?

Quoting Yukimizake (Reply 24):
The pressure of the Australian media is of no concern to Frank Williams and the F1 community in general, hopefully for Webber's sake he doesn't pay too much to this. However, the worst thing for any F1 driver is to be outperformed by a teammate in an identical car. This will definitely get the attention of Frank Williams & Co., just look at the pressure Jacques Villeneuve had been under until his solid drive in San Marino.

Yeah well said.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
cornish
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Tue May 03, 2005 9:34 pm

If Webber really was the real deal he probably would have demonstrated it by now. Even in a mid ranking car, he should have put in some performances that really stood out if he was to be the next big thing in F1. I haven't seen any races where he has done that. Some good qualifying, but nothing more.

As for the Minardi 5th place in Oz, well he was 5th out of 6 finishers that day, and the toyota that was behind him was in its first race. I don't think that quite ranks with some of Alonso's performances in a Minardi the year before. He really made people sit up, even near the back of the field, and that's why Renault signed him up.

People mentioned DC talking the talk - well while I'm not a big Dc fan, and he's not always looked good against his Finnish teammates, his two big problems have always been qualifying, mental strength and consistancy. As far as his racing ability is concerned, he does have plenty. There have been occasions when he really has delivered some stunning drives - particularly hed to head against Schumacher. But not consistantly enough, and that's what frustrated Ron Dennis.

As for Webber and the media pressure, well if you are going to be a big star in F!, then the media pressure is naturally going to come with this, just like in any sport - but perhaps he should deliver first before making dumb statements - otherwise you just look foolish....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
TSV
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RE: F1 Driver Mark Webber.

Wed May 04, 2005 11:15 am

I don't really want to defend the bloke after the smart arse comments he made about Allan Moffat but ...

Maybe Frank Williams had a bit of a flash back and believes (or hopes) he was onto another Alan Jones when he watched and then signed Webber. Remember that Jones won his Title in his third season with Williams. His first and second seasons with Williams were a bit of a mixture from disappointing to frustrating to promising to delivering but not consistently as both he and Williams developed. Even his Title year was really a close run thing despite the large difference in points at the end of the year. Also the critical thing here is that Jones arrived at Williams with a GP win under his belt in a slightly above average car (Shadow - a drive he only got after Tom Pryce's fatal accident) in difficult conditions (Austria 1977). Webber arrives at Williams without even being on the Podium. It would have taken Webber to have a win in the Jag to be comparable.

I see the main differences between Jones and Webber as you could see Jones' ability and determination whereas with Webber I'm not so sure.
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