tbar220
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Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 1:27 pm

Why isn't action being taken in Darfur? Why are the United States, Europe, and other countries standing by relatively silent while hundreds are killed, raped, maimed, and tortured every day in Sudan? Is there a reason?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/opinion/03kristof.html

With Yom Ha'Shoa coming up this thursday, you think people would remember the Holocaust and take action to avoid any such genocide from happening again in the world. Estimates are that 400,000 have died in the Darfur region of Sudan, but hey, we have more important things to deal with.

How's the saying go? It is the inaction of good men to stop evil that makes them just as bad as those who commit it.

This isn't just an anti-Bush thread, or a Bush-bashing thread. Read the article, its there to support my claim. The overall message though is that action needs to be taken!
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 1:36 pm

http://www.ushmm.org/conscience/alert/darfur/steidle/

Just take a look at that. Why are civilized nations standing by idly and letting this happen?
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 1:45 pm

I know I mentioned it earlier, but estimates are that 400,000 are dead in Darfur, with an estimated 500 dead daily. That's about 15,000 a month, to about 180,000 a year at this rate.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 1:58 pm

E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:00 pm

Oh aren't you brilliant, you refer me to a thread from March? Try again dude.

I think this is important enough to bring up again, and again, and again.
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Mir
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:02 pm



Signed,

Most of the World

------

Military action never gets taken just because of atrocities. People just don't care enough. There's a line in Hotel Rwanda, where a TV reporter says "people will watch and say, 'oh that's just awful,' and then go back to having their dinner and forget it ever existed" (some paraphrasing there).

I hesitate to make an Iraq comparison, but I think I have to. If Bush had gone around on his whirlwind tour in late 2002/early 2003 to drum up support for the war, and said something like "Saddam Hussein is an evil dictator, and we must free the Iraqi people from his terrible rule," do you think that he would have gotten the necessary support? Of course not. The American people couldn't give two shits about how the Iraqi people are doing, so long as the Iraqi people aren't trying to attack us. And they couldn't give two shits about the people in Darfur. Heck, I think you'll find that, in general, they couldn't give two shits about anyone living in a third world country.

And it's not just the US. Other countries are the same. That's why any external solution will be a long time in coming.

It's an utter tragedy that it has to be this way. But humanity has an immense capacity to turn a blind eye on some terrible things.

-Mir
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thomasphoto60
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:09 pm

We are allowing the same genocide to take place in Darfur that happened in Rwanda just 11 short years ago. That said, should the US attempt any sort of Somilia style operation, there would be howls from the radical Islamic world, the EU, the overall global community as a whole. As someone said it so perfectly in another thread, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Personally I think the US should step up to the plate and do the right thing for the right reasons.

Thomas
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:10 pm

"Oh aren't you brilliant, you refer me to a thread from March? Try again dude."

I'm just trying to point you to some related information.

Honestly when did airliners.net turn into asshole.net?
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Mir
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:12 pm

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 6):
Personally I think the US should step up to the plate and do the right thing for the right reasons.

Agreed. People are going to hate us either way. But at least we can save a few hundred thousand lives in the process. To me, this one is a no-brainer. Let the genocide go on, or stop it? Is that really that hard of a choice?

-Mir
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Honestly when did airliners.net turn into asshole.net?

Sorry, I shouldn't have responded the way I did. Most of the time when people post that its the "search police". Its always, "search for this and don't post again" type stuff. I was riled up after reading that link, didn't mean to respond like that.
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:35 pm

I remember images of the Allied Armies marching into the concentration camps in Europe and being greeted as liberaters. Why can't a coalition of world wide troops go in and liberate Sudan? The country is being torn apart and the rest of the civilized world stands by and watches as people suffer.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:35 pm

"Its always, "search for this and don't post again" type stuff."

No, I don't do that. I hate when people do that. No worries...
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 2:44 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Why are the United States, Europe, and other countries standing by

Why did you single out the US and Europe? Why is the West responsible for solving every 3rd world tribal conflict?

This is an African problem hence it is best solved by Africans. If African nations want the world's respect, here is their chance to mobilize themselves and solve the crisis. Egypt has a huge army and borders Sudan...why is Egypt doing nothing?

I suggest the West do nothing to solve this crisis since it is not of our making. Let the OAU (Org of African Unity) solve it. They meet frequently enough. Human rights cannot be imposed. Respect for African life has to come from fellow Africans.
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Why did you single out the US and Europe? Why is the West responsible for solving every 3rd world tribal conflict?

Because the United States and Europe are the beacons of freedom, democracy, and life in the world. That is why I'm singling them out. Since clearly other countries without democracy or a good human rights record (i.e. Egypt) are doing nothing, it is the responsibility of those who hold these values so highly to do so! Did we learn nothing from history? Did we learn nothing from the six million dead Jews in the Holocaust? Or the other five million dead blacks, gays, homosexuals, gypsies from the concentration camps?

The Western world has a responsibility, as free and democratic countries, to act in Sudan where the people have no voice or representation. They have a responsibility to act when African countries that have no democracy or democratic representation aren't acting.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
I suggest the West do nothing to solve this crisis since it is not of our making.

This is the most irresponsible, and disturbing part of your post. You would suggest to stand by and watch as 500 people a day, 500 innocent men, women and children are slaughtered by government sponsored terrorism? This is frightening!

This isn't a thread picking on Europe of the United States. This isn't a thread singling them out just because I can. I'm singling them out because they have the power to do something, and they're not! They have more power to intervene in Sudan than the pathetic dictatorships in Africa and the Middle East. I hold them to higher standards than those countries because I know they can do better. I expect far less from a dictatorship.

Haven't we learned anything in the last century? The Armenian Genocide, The Holocaust, Cambodian Genocide, Rwandan Genocide. So why stand by and let this happen? Why say its "Africa's" problem? We are all human beings, black or white, African or European. And we should stand up for our fellow human beings. Period. And the fact that we aren't is disturbing.

"We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men."
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Biggles
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 3:30 pm

Perhaps you should direct your question to that wonderful organisation , the U.N. , and it's great leader from Ghana.
 
tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 3:36 pm

Did you bother to read my last post? Did you bother to see why I'm pointing my questions to the U.S., Europe, and the civilized "Western World"?

The U.N. is comprised of many countries, including Sudan. The majority of these countries are probably not democracies that enjoy the same freedom and rights that the U.S., Europe, and other respective democracies enjoy.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 3:52 pm

I believe that those countries which are 'able' to assist (in terms of financial ability, morality, experience in such situations, peace-keeping experience, etc.) must for the well-being of the world's citizens. Taking no, little or inappropriate action will affect still further those who cannot defend themselves, which is a tradegy in itself.

As for it being an African problem - well, that's an absurd argument. A generalisation, of course, but how on earth is a debt-ridden African country with little usable funds, plus probable corruption, perhaps no or little social or moral inclinations, no or little relevant experience, etc., expected to do anything worthwhile?

Those countries that can, should.
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JGPH1A
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:01 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Let the OAU (Org of African Unity) solve it.

Be fun to see that. The OAU doesn't exist any more. It's the African Union now, and they ARE trying - there are AU peacekeepers and monitors on the ground, but unfortunately not nearly enough, and without anything like the kind of logistical support they require.

The reason the UN has not acted in this affair is because Russia and China have vetoed any resolution requiring action in Darfur - they consider the Darfur problem to be an internal issue for Sudan. The real reason is that if the UN is allowed to take action on "internal" conflicts in Sudan and condemn them as genocide, the same thing could happen in Chechnya and in the far west of China, where the Chinese goverment is embroiled in conflict with Uighur Muslims. China and Russia don't want the UN involved in their "internal" conflicts, so they are happy to let hundreds of thousands of Sudanese civilians die. Ain't politics wonderful ? And people wonder why nobody in the western world bothers to vote any more.
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:07 pm

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 6):
Personally I think the US should step up to the plate and do the right thing for the right reasons.

Personally, I'm tired of the rest of the world telling us to stop getting involved in everything. I'm tired of the rest of the world treating us like shit if we actually do try to help people somewhere. If they don't like some of things we do, maybe we shouldn't do these things. Adopt an isolationism-type foreign policy for a few years. That's what I say. Then just watch them come calling...

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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:18 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 17):
The reason the UN has not acted in this affair is because Russia and China have vetoed any resolution requiring action in Darfur - they consider the Darfur problem to be an internal issue for Sudan. The real reason is that if the UN is allowed to take action on "internal" conflicts in Sudan and condemn them as genocide, the same thing could happen in Chechnya and in the far west of China, where the Chinese goverment is embroiled in conflict with Uighur Muslims.

What if Europe acted under NATO? Would that be feasible? That way Russia and China wouldn't have to be involved (political reasons).

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 18):
Adopt an isolationism-type foreign policy for a few years. That's what I say. Then just watch them come calling...

So you would have this country adopt an isolationist stance while thousands die in Sudan from genocide?
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GQfluffy
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:24 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
So you would have this country adopt an isolationist stance while thousands die in Sudan from genocide?

I'd bet real money that if the US did send troops into Sudan, some country would start saying crap about us trying to be world's police force. Why put up with it? We've fubar'd Iraq pretty good. Afghanistan is slowing coming together. I'd say finish what we've started, and if our "image" is still considered shoddy by the rest of the world, screw 'em. We've got enough internal problems to sort out first. We can't go running to every corner of the world to deal with other people's problems.

fluffy
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:40 pm

You didn't answer my question. You can give me just a yes or no. Would you support an isolationist stance while genocide is occuring in Sudan?
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GQfluffy
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:47 pm

LoL. Sorry. Tis late. Finals week and a 60hr work week.  faint   hypnotized   tired 

No, I don't.

Just saying that the more anti-US stuff I hear, the more I wonder if an isolationistic position would be the right thing in the near future...

fluffy
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 4:59 pm

Oh trust me, I'm studying for finals too.

I think the point I'm trying to make is this. It shouldn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, no matter how sick of it you might be. You can't support an isolationist stance when genocide is happening elsewhere because you know the right thing to do would be to help those innocent people. Sure we'd probably hear trash about it from some countries, but that's all politics. In the end we know we'd have done the right thing in helping save innocent lives from pointless slaughter.

People don't do good things just to hear others be grateful for it. People do good things because its the right thing to do, or at least they should. Our country and European countries should do good things because its the right thing to do.

For example, look at Operations Moses, Joshua, and Solomon. Israel rescued 36,000 Ethiopian Jews in a massive airlift effort, with 14,000 alone rescued in 36 hours by 34 jumbo jets and C-130 hercules aircraft. They didn't have to rescue them. They knew the Arab world would be mad, and probably get the U.N. upset with them. But they did it because it was the right thing to do, to help people in need.

The United States and Europe should do the same for the needy in Sudan.
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GQfluffy
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 5:13 pm

Very true. I'm just tired of seeing the US try (keyword there) to do the right thing, essentially try to be the world's police force, and then get crapped on by the same European nations you mention. Yes, this is politics, and who ever said politics should be fair and considerate? Well, I do. Why should we have to do everything by ourselves? I'm not going to point fingers at which nations in particular just do things that will, in the end, help themselves, but these nations seem to crap on us the most. No, this doesn't help those in Sudan, and I think we (the US) should do something about it. But I think its high time the EU gets off it's arse and helps out in the world community. Instead of just sitting there acting all high and mighty and literally flipping the US off. Hell, while I'm at it, maybe the UN should, too.

BTW, have some respect from meself.

fluffy

[Edited 2005-05-03 10:27:20]
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 5:15 pm

Good post.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 24):
BTW, have some respect from meself.

Huh?
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GQfluffy
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 5:26 pm

Welcome to my small and pathetic respected user's list. Gimmie a break. Only been a member for under a month.  Wink

fluffy
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JGPH1A
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 8:01 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
What if Europe acted under NATO? Would that be feasible?

Not feasible without a UN resolution, I don't think. I wish they would act, like they did in Kosovo.
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TedTAce
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 8:04 pm

Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?
No oil, no war.
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thomasphoto60
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 8:21 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 28):
Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?
No oil, no war.

Not necessarily true.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm

Thomas
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
Because the United States and Europe are the beacons of freedom, democracy, and life in the world. That is why I'm singling them out. Since clearly other countries without democracy or a good human rights record (i.e. Egypt) are doing nothing, it is the responsibility of those who hold these values so highly to do so!

The West is largely hated in Africa, despite massive aid and humanitarian intervention in the past. If the West steps in and "solves" this crisis, how will Africans learn to solve their own problems?

If uncivilized Africans want to kill each other, let them. Perhaps its nature's way of keeping the population of a grotesquely over-crowded continent in check. This is an African problem.

You want to help Sudan? Go protest outside the Egyptian embassy -- they have the largest and closest army in the region. They could be there in days to solve this. Just leave the West out of it.
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gkirk
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Tue May 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Well, France and Germany aint doing anything about it. The UK and US are stuck in Iraq for a wee bit longer...oh, and dont forget about Poland.
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KYIPpilot
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:05 am

As much as action should be taken, why the USA on its own??? We have our hands full as it is. You know, half the world says do something, and then if we were to get involved, we suddenly become the bad guy and the "worlds police."

As said above, why doesn't Egypt, South Africa, and other powerful African nations take charge of their problems?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:26 am

"Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?
No oil, no war."

Cute, and easy to say without any forethought, but not true.

" Perhaps its nature's way of keeping the population of a grotesquely over-crowded continent in check"

Yikes. I don't know if I'd go around repeating that statement. I think nature's way of population control on the continent is AIDS, since almost a third of the continent will die from it in the coming years.

"This is an African problem"

It absolutely is, but I think the rest of the world needs to make it very clear that they need to actually do something about it.
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aa61hvy
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:13 am

The United States doesn't want to get involved with something like this...It's too similar to Somalia. In that we have no interest in the area, but we could help. The last thing the US wants to do is have more soliders get dragged through streets by warlords.

Not to mention, that whole conflict in the middle east.
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Orion737
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:28 am

Very good question. When Tony Blair came to power he said he would not stand by while another Bosnia/Kosovo/Somalia/Rwanda suffered such atrocities. Why is Darfur being largley ignored by Britain and other nations. I have not heard Blair mention Darfur once in over four weeks of continual election coverage, speeches etc.

Zimbabwe and Darfur seem not to matter, funny then that Iraq did!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
" Perhaps its nature's way of keeping the population of a grotesquely over-crowded continent in check"

Yikes. I don't know if I'd go around repeating that statement.

Why not? I'm tired of being politically correct. Africa IS over-populated. Since Africans are unable to exercise birth control, then perhaps war, genocide and AIDS are "necessary evils" to keep Africa's population in check.
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777236ER
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:40 am

I don't even have to read Yyz's posts to know what he'll say: he'll say the Africans aren't doing enough to help, it's all the fault of black people and that there are too many black people in Africa - after all, when white people were in charge it was all OK, wasn't it?

No one should be surprised at the pathetic politiking by the west. Whether it's the US, UN, EU or even my own country, something should have been done long ago. Get writing to your local politician.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 37):
something should have been done long ago.

Hear, hear!
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777236ER
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 2:04 am



Multiply by 200,000 to understand the full scale of the crisis.
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777236ER
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 41):
Well, it's true. Africans are ignoring this genocide. Do you have a problem with facts?

The facts are this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4498409.stm

On Friday the AU increased the number of troops there from 2200 to 7700. So don't lie.

You never moan and complain about white, middle-class problems. Always about people of other religions or races. Hmmm.
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mham001
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:25 am

Actually if we want to place blame for inaction in the UN, it starts with China because they have oil interests in Sudan and need the Arab government. It continues in a smaller way to Russia, although I think they can be convinced otherwise. France continued to play obstuctionist for months, apparently for no other reason than just being obstructionist and boosting their standing in the Arab world.
The administration, for several reasons, has tried to let the UN do what the euro-trash said it is meant to do. The UN has failed miserably-AGAIN. If not for the US continued prodding, this would not even be on the radar screen. It is pathetic the stance that supposed civilized nations take. France is can take a large part of this. Their own interests in fuelling anti-american alliances has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. Sickening how supposed allies can act. Petulant little whiners, I have a hard time understanding how we continue to call France "allies".
 
mham001
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 41):
Fact: black people are killing black people in Sudan. Gee whiz....sure sounds like its the fault of those black killers.

Factually incorrect. It is mostly Arabs killing blacks. This seems to change the dynamics for too many countries. Don't want to anger the Arabs!

I am glad this issue gets brought up. I have been sickened by this for a long time. Amazing that a problem that could be relatively easy to stop gets no response from the countries most easily able to do it.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 42):
The facts are this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4498409.stm

On Friday the AU increased the number of troops there from 2200 to 7700. So don't lie.

Well, clearly 7700 is insufficient. So what are YOU going to personally do about it 777236ER? I STRONGLY recommend you fly to Sudan this week to help. You could be cradling and feeding Darfur orphans by Thurs morning if you left tomorrow. Unless of course it's too inconvenent for you to leave your comfortable London life this week......in which case, perhaps Darfur is not THAT important to you.
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777236ER
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 45):
So what are YOU going to personally do about it 777236ER? I STRONGLY recommend you fly to Sudan this week to help. You could be cradling and feeding Darfur orphans by Thurs morning if you left tomorrow. Unless of course it's too inconvenent for you to leave your comfortable London life this week......in which case, perhaps Darfur is not THAT important to you.

I live in Manchester. Don't patronise me, Yyz717. You're busy condemning everyone and anyone (who's not white) for deaths you don't seem too concerned about. In fact, you barely hide your glee when you say 'If uncivilized Africans want to kill each other, let them'.

You're quite happy to join in any thread that talks about black people killing black people. Yet your outspoken views on guns in the US don't extend to any racial points. You don't think white Americans should be left to kill themselves with guns, in fact you support government intervention to stop them.

I don't think there are many here that appreciate the views of a thinly-veiled racist.
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 46):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 45):
So what are YOU going to personally do about it 777236ER? I STRONGLY recommend you fly to Sudan this week to help. You could be cradling and feeding Darfur orphans by Thurs morning if you left tomorrow. Unless of course it's too inconvenent for you to leave your comfortable London life this week......in which case, perhaps Darfur is not THAT important to you.

I live in Manchester. Don't patronise me, Yyz717.

I knew you were all talk and no action. You could fly BMI or LH to FRA tomorrow and connect to an LH FRA-CAI-Khartoum flight if you REALLY cared about Darfur, but let's face it -- you don't really care. You claim to "care" about Darfur and yet the best you can offer is to write a stupid letter to your MP. What a hypocrite.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 46):
I don't think there are many here that appreciate the views of a thinly-veiled racist.

You're the racist here with your condescending Western attitude that Africans are unable to solve their own problems and need the "white man" to come in and solve it for them. How condescending and racist.

I, on the other hand, have confidence that this genocide can and will be solved by Africans.
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daedaeg
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 4:07 am

I say let the UN and EU handle it. They're doing nothing at the moment. If they want to be recognized as true global powers. Hey here's your chance.
Yyz717 do you think it was okay for us to go into Kosovo? When we intervene in poor countries like these we shouldn't look at it as an "African" problem. This clearly is a humanitarian problem. Genocide is something everybody should condemn. There are families with young children who are begging for our help. Should we just ignore them because it's a "black" or "African" problem. If we have the resources to do something, then why not help? Many of those people are helpless. It is not their fault they were born into an impoverished nation with corrupt governments. Just put yourself in their shoes for a moment.
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tbar220
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 4:12 am

Yyz,

Did you happen to open the link in my opening thread?

Now imagine as Daedaeg has put it. You are born poor and impoverished in Sudan. You live your humble life in grass huts and villages, and in the last two years you've watched your family get killed, you house get burned and looted, and your life destroyed. Should we condemn you to death because "Africa is overpopulated" or because "Egypt isn't doing anything" or because "Africa should solve its problems"? Should the United States have condemned European Jewry because it was on Europe, and there were too many Jews anyways?

Come on now, be realistic. Did we learn nothing from genocides in the past? That the world should help the innocent when they cannot help themselves, and when nobody else is helping them?
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777236ER
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 47):
You're the racist here with your condescending Western attitude that Africans are unable to solve their own problems and need the "white man" to come in and solve it for them

Yet more evidence of your single-minded hate against black people. Every day I see lots of people who aren't white, yet you're convinced the entire Western world is supremly white.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 47):
I, on the other hand, have confidence that this genocide can and will be solved by Africans.

No you don't, you repeatedly bemoan the fact that those poor black people can't help themselves. You seem rather happy when you say it too.
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yyz717
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RE: Why Isn't Action Being Taken In Darfur?

Wed May 04, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 50):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 47):
You're the racist here with your condescending Western attitude that Africans are unable to solve their own problems and need the "white man" to come in and solve it for them

Yet more evidence of your single-minded hate against black people. Every day I see lots of people who aren't white, yet you're convinced the entire Western world is supremly white.

The West is overwhelmingly white, and you know it. Any action by any Western nation in Sudan will largely involve white soldiers solving African problems. Let them solve their own damn problems.

So tell me 777236ER....where will you be on Thursday? In Sudan helping out, or here on anet "pretending" to care about Darfur from the luxury of Manchester? The former is admirable; the latter is hypocritical.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 49):
Now imagine as Daedaeg has put it. You are born poor and impoverished in Sudan. You live your humble life in grass huts and villages, and in the last two years you've watched your family get killed, you house get burned and looted, and your life destroyed. Should we condemn you to death because "Africa is overpopulated" or because "Egypt isn't doing anything" or because "Africa should solve its problems"?

Tbar, life is cheap in Africa. Death is common and frequent in EVERY family. That's in part why so many children are born, knowing that many will die. I firmly believe that people (whether wealthy and affluent like me, or poor and illiterate like Sudanese) should NOT be having children if they cannot afford to raise them.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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