MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 11:43 am

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance41.html

For brevity I'm going to exlude a few reasons from the article. Most of the text below is the author's.

1. It is unnatural. It is not natural for the United States (or any country) to have an empire of troops and bases that encircles the globe. Why should any U.S. troops ever leave American soil or American territorial waters?

2. It is very expensive. The money factor cannot be ignored. Even without fighting a war, it costs a lot of money (the American taxpayers’ money) to pay, house, feed, and provide medical care for thousands of American soldiers.

3. It is against the principles of the Founding Fathers. Sending troops overseas, building military bases in foreign countries, and making alliances is foreign interventionism, pure and simple. The Founding Fathers recommended a noninterventionist foreign policy, and for good reason.

Quite simply, the planetary American Empire is un-American.

4. It increases hatred of Americans. One need look no further than the "welcome" our troops have received in Iraq.

5. It perverts the purpose of the military. The purpose of the U.S. military should be to defend the United States. That’s it. Nothing more. Using the military for any other purpose perverts the purpose of the military. The U.S. military has no business attempting to bring democracy to the world, remove dictators, spread goodwill, fight communism or Islam, guarantee the neutrality of any country, change a regime that is not friendly to the United States, train the armies of other countries, open foreign markets, protect U.S. commercial interests, provide disaster relief, or provide humanitarian aid. The U.S. military should be engaged exclusively in defending the United States, not defending other countries, and certainly not attacking them. What are U.S. troops doing overseas when the border between Mexico and the United States is not even secure?

6. It increases the size and scope of the government. There is no way a country can have hundreds of bases and thousands of troops overseas without a substantial and onerous bureaucracy at home.

7. It makes countries dependent on the presence of the U.S. military. This is especially true in countries where U.S. troops have had a presence for decades. Consider the case of Germany.

8. The United States is not the world’s policeman. It’s a dirty job. It’s a thankless job. It’s an impossible job. And no, someone does not really have to do it. Why, then, do we even try? We cannot police the world. We have no right to police the world. It is the height of arrogance to try and remake the world in our image. Most of what happens in the world is none of our concern and certainly none of our business. If the people in a country don’t like their ruler, then they should get rid of him, not look to the United States to intervene. Actually, though, most of the time it is the United States that institutes a regime change.

Thomas Jefferson stated: "I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance, or joining in the confederacy of Kings to war against the principles of liberty."

John Quincy Adams said that, "America . . . goes not abroad seeking monsters to destroy."


Bring them home!

[Edited 2005-05-04 04:43:31]
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
5. It perverts the purpose of the military.

You know what's HILARIOUS about this point to me?

When W was running against Mr. Personality: AKA Coma Boy, Al Gore. W Said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, we should not be in the business of nation building...hummm Can I have Hypocrites for a $Billion Alex?
This space intentionally left blank
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 11:58 am

MD-90, maybe if you'd have voted, people would care what you say.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
The purpose of the U.S. military should be to defend the United States. That’s it. Nothing more.

So, you'd rather wait til the assholes get onto American soil before we take action with our military? Personally, if we got to blow the shit out of someone, I'd rather do it elsewhere . . . . . or not all to be honest.

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
It’s a dirty job. It’s a thankless job. It’s an impossible job.

Yes  yes , Yes  yes , Yes  yes 

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
And no, someone does not really have to do it.

Wrongo  no   no   no  . . . we have an inherent responsibility as the worlds remaining military superpower to assist any country or any region in any event where we ahve to capability, be it ridding the world of tyrants or support relief operations due to a natural disaster. Wanna see the world hate the US, go back a few months when we "delayed" in getting assistance to the Tsunami victims . . .

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Even without fighting a war, it costs a lot of money (the American taxpayers’ money) to pay, house, feed, and provide medical care for thousands of American soldiers.

And without the US military where would this country be? The entire "peacetime" military from the end of Vietnam until the beginning of action in Iraq cost a pittance to maintain and even advance compared to some other programs in this country. Altough expensive, I agree, so is a soldier putting his ass on the line for people that think like you . . . when, by the way, was the lat time you thanked a veteran????

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
hundreds of bases and thousands of troops overseas

Hundred of bases???? Shit, son, we don't have hundreds of bases in total, much less overseas. Lew got you on that one, huh; hook, line and sinker!

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
This is especially true in countries where U.S. troops have had a presence for decades. Consider the case of Germany.

And South Korea. Don't forget South Korea. I suppose it would have been your call to tell Western Europe to go to hell and allow the Soviet Hordes to posture and maneuver at will over there? Just curious . . . . what would YOU (and that idiot Rockwell) have done to prevent Soviet expansionism during the Cold War. What would you (and that idiot Rockwell) do to keep KJI and his North Korean armies from trouncing the South Korean people?

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
. It is against the principles of the Founding Fathers.



Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Thomas Jefferson stated: "I



Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
John Quincy Adams said that, "

Smallll suggestion for you and your Buddy Lew . . . move into the 21st century. Might be painful, but not any more pain than the ret of us must endure every time you post this drivel.

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Bring them home!

You don't have to yell, it's rude, it's ignorant.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
MD-90, maybe if you'd have voted, people would care what you say.

I wasted all that time on someone that didn't even VOTE!!!

Damn I hate that, someone lives in this country and doesn't have the balls to vote . . . .

Geez, I'm sorry I wasted my time writing all that.

MD-90, you have NO dog in the hunt. I'm done with you . . .  talktothehand 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 12:10 pm

Excuses for not wanting to address the real problem: The military´s job can not be to clean up the mess made by irresponsible and reckless government policies.

That is the problem.

Although it´s on a completely different scale, I have no problem with our Bundeswehr being active in Kosovo, Afghanistan and in several other places and the ongoing change of transforming it from a purely territorially-defensive to an intervention-capable force - provided that our politicians take the utmost care to decide wisely where to deploy our troops, for which purposes and with what legitimation.

By completely ignoring those crucial issues the Bush administration has done more damage to the US military than any adversary on the planet ever could have. And Abu Ghraib or not - the troops deserve better than to be sent abroad without legitimacy, with insufficient training, with ill-conceived strategies, with no backup plans, with lacking support, with morally indefensible tactics and without a viable exit strategy.

Don´t amputate the limbs when it´s the head that´s rotten.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
The military´s job can not be to clean up the mess made by irresponsible and reckless government policies.

Perhaps in the current circumstance, you have a point - we can debate that elsewhere. That said, what say you about the US assistance in clearing up the mess in Japan post WW2? About the US assistance in western Europe Post WW2? What about our protection of South Korea? Assistance in the Sanai? Assistance in Kosovo? Assistance in Macdeonia, Bosnia?

Just curious, where, Klaus, do you draw your line? What is a "Go mission" versus a "No-Go Mission" for you my friend?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
with insufficient training, with ill-conceived strategies, with no backup plans, with lacking support, with morally indefensible tactics and without a viable exit strategy.

I have one word for you: DUMSFELD.

Saw it coming a long time ago . . . pre Rumsfeld even. Pre-Bush2. About the time Bush1 and CLinton swapped office space.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 12:54 pm

ANCFlyer: Perhaps in the current circumstance, you have a point - we can debate that elsewhere. That said, what say you about the US assistance in clearing up the mess in Japan post WW2? About the US assistance in western Europe Post WW2? What about our protection of South Korea? Assistance in the Sanai? Assistance in Kosovo? Assistance in Macdeonia, Bosnia?

I was strictly referring to messes made by the troops´ own government, of course.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 1:06 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
was strictly referring to messes made by the troops´ own government, of course.

I good with that . . .

My questions perhaps might have sent MD-90 into fits  biggrin .

Seriously, I understand. Governments can get carried away . . . all governments. And unfortunately, often the military are pawns for the whims of it's leadership.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
MD-90, maybe if you'd have voted, people would care what you say.

Gee, I choose not to give the tyrannical office of the president any "mandate" and boy does it distress some people for whom politics is almost their religion. But considering how many people don't understand that, left and right, they're both wings of the same establishment bureaucracy.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
So, you'd rather wait til the assholes get onto American soil before we take action with our military?

And just what government is going to invade the US?.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
we have an inherent responsibility as the worlds remaining military superpower to assist any country or any region in any event where we ahve to capability,

You and the neocons who suffer from delusions of grandeur may think so, but that is not the responsibility of the America that our founding fathers created.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
The entire "peacetime" military from the end of Vietnam until the beginning of action in Iraq cost a pittance to maintain and even advance compared to some other programs in this country.

And you arrogantly talk about ignorance. My hometown is right next to Huntsville, Alabama. I know that staggering sums of money that even a peacetime military requires to control the world.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Shit, son, we don't have hundreds of bases in total, much less overseas. Lew got you on that one, huh; hook, line and sinker!

Now you're displaying true ignorance. Not only did Lew Rockwell did not write that article, you are completely in the dark about US projection of geopolitical power.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
Gee, I choose not to give the tyrannical office of the president any "mandate" and boy does it distress some people for whom politics is almost their religion.

By voting you make a decision, a commitment, and stand behind your values. If you don't vote, you're telling the world you're unable to make up your mind what you stand for, or care so little about your value system you can't be half arsed to endorse it. It has nothing to do with mandates, or anything else you've claimed, but if you don't vote it makes your rhetoric valueless, since you're unwilling to stand behind it.

Case closed.

[Edited 2005-05-04 06:40:31]
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7590
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Damn I hate that, someone lives in this country and doesn't have the balls to vote . . . .

Yep, sometimes it's the little thing that make the big things matter. It's not even a big task to complete. Tick once for for the person who best reflects your ideals to represent your constituency, and once for the party you want to govern. I can't wait to vote in this year's election in NZ. I've already reregistered. People not voting is usually the sole reason for bringing polarising leaders like Bush into power in the first place.

As for the whole topic of the post, I hate the whole thing as much as most people, I despise Bush but the fact is, it's flogging a really dead horse. It's already had it's hooves chopped to make glue, and the flesh sent off to the factory to make Pet Food.

I've given up caring about what Bush does now - If there was a hell, I would be happy in the knowledge he was gonna be burning there for a long time.. If he wants to piss off the world that's fine by me - it is unlikely to affect me directly anyway. I just hope he can handle the consequences it will have on the USA once he has left office for years to come. Without the power over the button he can't do much when the world backlashes...
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 1:45 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
And just what government is going to invade the US?.

Doesn't take a government . . . only takes 19 angry men and some airplanes.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
that is not the responsibility of the America that our founding fathers created.

And the isolationist attitude of the United States was eliminated in WW2, and as I mentioned before - come on in to the 21st Century, you'd be amazed at the advances we made.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
My hometown is right next to Huntsville, Alabama.

Nice country, very, very nice in fact. I like Madison County. I made way too many trips there in the mid-1990s, to a contractor in HSV working out of Redstone and a facility over the mountain. I like that whole area. Have family in Lauderdale County and other parts of Alabama . . . Northern Eastern Alabama is definitely a nice place.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
Not only did Lew Rockwell did not write that article,

It's on Lew's site, good enough for me. Your link in the Thread Starter is Lew's site . . . again, good enough for me.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories.


Reading from my source below, these "bases" include ranges and training areas and places where there is absolutely nothing - but a gate. Black Rapids Training area in Alaska . . . .absolutely nothing but a gate and a few old buildings and a huge training area on a Glacier. Ohhh, now that's a built up costly item to maintain.

Continuing, the Whittier to Anchorage pipeline. No buildings, no nothing, just a pipeline providing jet fuel.

Haines Terminal. Mothballed umpteen years ago. Was used to transfer fuel at the sountern end of a pipeline terminus.

Using the word "Bases" as you have above, is very fuckin' misleading. Par for you. Read below, it's the real deal, doesn't hide anything and doesn't exaggerate or expound on the facts as you do.

Enlighten yourself. . . .

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/basestructure2003.pdf

[Edited 2005-05-04 06:51:03]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 2:06 pm

I've successfully (until now) avoided these endless yes/no, do/don't do, you're bad/you're good crapolla, socio-politico threads. Now me succomb to offering a personal opinion (after hearing this shit for the last whole bunch of years - I'll be 62 in a few days).

My personal opinion is basically a question...why do so may of the the howlers in this forum degrade the US for the current campaign (only because the reasons for the campaign are, or apparently are, misrepresented) and they disregard that a positive result may very well be experienced to the citizens of Iraq, but the howlers are screaming for the US to get envolved for the "same" reason in (name WTF genocide you want to name)?

Look at the threads on this forum bleeding their heats out for the US to help (you name the friggen' country, tribe or people-eat-people village), but many of the same SOBs are squalling about US interference or policing in the international theatre.

Talk about hypocritical. Sheesh. It would be cool if a non-interested party could devise a somewhat indicative value chart of how many of the
posters in this forum can actually think (hey, there are many that can, and I very much value reading those expressions, but, there are so many that are simply venting for whatever conviction or reasoning).

Well, I'm going to bail out now. But, lastly, can someone express what's right or what's wrong? Yeah, I've read the other threads...the anti-USAers bitching about the Bush "lie" in Iraq still support an adventure to curtail the current genocide in Africa (for basically the same reason) want the US to get envolved? What's wrong with this picture? Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wr

Wed May 04, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Doesn't take a government . . . only takes 19 angry men and some airplanes.

And invading Iraq, or any other military operation, could've stopped that, how?



I'd agree that the 6000 "bases" statement is misleading. An aerial gunnery range out west is probably just some dirt, rocks and targets, which is hardly a base. But that's a quote from the article, not me. But some of those small installations/locations are indeed genuine bases.

At least we can agree that Huntsville, Decatur, Madison, Athens is a nice region. It's not LA, for sure. Huntsville is even reputed to have the highest per capita concentration of people with PhDs of any city in the nation.
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 3:14 pm

MD-90, are you kidding who is gona look after the rest of the needy countries? France? US has troops around the world for aid around those areas not because it is some sort of a police base. U.S IS NOT POLICING THE WORLD give me one example that shows they are. They are helping countries. The United States has never done anything bad in the long run in history when they have invaded countries Japan, Germany, etc. and the invasion of Iraq is for the better. I doubt somebody from Mississippi knows how much the Unites States is needed through out the world.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
At least we can agree that Huntsville, Decatur, Madison, Athens is a nice region.

Hold on to your asses world! MD-90 and I agree on something.

Yes, Sir, it is a great area. I spent so much time there, I don't need a map. Matter of fact, at one point National Car Rental called HPD to look for me, I was there 33 days with one of the Pontiac Bonneville's and apparently, they like you to check in occasionally   .

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
And invading Iraq, or any other military operation, could've stopped that, how?

This thread had nothing to do with that . . . but if you'll start another thread, we can go round and round in there . . .

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
But some of those small installations/locations are indeed genuine bases.

And the DoD info lists them, including military population. I'll gladly go through the entire Alaska list for you - not that I think it necessary, I believe you can read - and you can see for yourself, even facilities such as Aircraft Hangers, if they are stand alone, are listed . . . now, you've got to admit - an airplane hanger does not a "base" make . . . .

EDIT: Let me add that when you (IF you) read this list of "bases", please also note that when you see an Recreation Center, such as Seward Army Rec Camp, Alaska or the HaleKoa Hotel in Honolulu, these are NON-APPROPRIATED funds operations. No tax payer money goes to these operations. They are self-sustaining. So you can wipe that off your list of "Costs" to the taxpayer.

Ahhh, Huntsville . . . very good memories . . . .   

[Edited 2005-05-04 08:37:13]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 3:32 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
MD-90, maybe if you'd have voted, people would care what you say.

Ahhhhh, that's right. People under the age of 18 can't possibly know what they're talking about. I'll tell you right now, I know a few people 18 and younger that probably have a better idea about our government, and how it works than you do. I'd be glad to put them up against you any day. Perhaps people might care what you say if you didn't act like such an a** hole twards people like MD90

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
So, you'd rather wait til the assholes get onto American soil before we take action with our military? Personally, if we got to blow the shit out of someone, I'd rather do it elsewhere . . . . . or not all to be honest.

We wouldn't have to worry about people trying to invade America, if we weren't bussy invading them ourselves. Perhaps if we would mind our own damn business, and stop trying to solve everyone else's problems...we MIGHT have a better standing in the world.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
we have an inherent responsibility as the worlds remaining military superpower to assist any country or any region in any event where we ahve to capability, be it ridding the world of tyrants or support relief operations due to a natural disaster. Wanna see the world hate the US, go back a few months when we "delayed" in getting assistance to the Tsunami victims . . .

Excuse me? We have a duty to go around bombing the shit out of countries on a hunch there might be WMD's...even though we don't have good intel. that there actually are WMD's?? Gotcha. We certainly don't have the "duty" to rid the world of Tyrants. If a country wants to have a dictatorship...where is it ourbusiness to go in there and MAKE them run it democratically? And I promise you...had we had a natural disaster of our own...Very few countries would have come running to our aide. We've done a good job of telling everyone else to f**k off so many times the last 5 years, no one would want to help us.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Altough expensive, I agree, so is a soldier putting his ass on the line for people that think like you . . . when, by the way, was the lat time you thanked a veteran????

I'm sorry...but they wouldn't have to be putting they're asses on the line if it weren't for Bush going into Iraq without a credible shred of evidence Sadam even had WMD's. The real fight was in Afghanistan...which he knew he had no fricken chance of winning. And what does thanking a veteran have to do with Iraq?? Give me a break. I'll thank veterans for they're service in past wars...But don't even try to compare thanking a veteran for past wars, to the current conflict in Iraq...which, again, Bush had no business starting.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Hundred of bases???? Shit, son, we don't have hundreds of bases in total, much less overseas. Lew got you on that one, huh; hook, line and sinker!

We don't have hundreds of military bases? Really? Shit...I must have been out in left feild these last 21 years...What was I thinking?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Smallll suggestion for you and your Buddy Lew . . . move into the 21st century. Might be painful, but not any more pain than the ret of us must endure every time you post this drivel.

Smaalllll suggestion for you and your redneck buddies...Move into the city and listen to what the rest of the country has to say about this pointless war Bush has gotten us into. It might be painful for you to realize that the most populated states in the country again didn't support that moron in the White House....But it'll be fun to watch you realize that alot of people really are against this war.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
You don't have to yell, it's rude, it's ignorant.

You don't have to be a sarcastic ass, either...But that hasn't stopped you I see....

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Perhaps in the current circumstance, you have a point - we can debate that elsewhere. That said, what say you about the US assistance in clearing up the mess in Japan post WW2? About the US assistance in western Europe Post WW2? What about our protection of South Korea? Assistance in the Sanai? Assistance in Kosovo? Assistance in Macdeonia, Bosnia?

Well, typically when you nuke a country, the polite thing would be to clean up after your mess....

Same goes for post war Europe.

Same goes for the other instances you mentioned. When you bomb the s**t out of a country...typically you should clean up after yourself.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 3:46 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
We wouldn't have to worry about people trying to invade America, if we weren't bussy invading them ourselves. Perhaps if we would mind our own damn business, and stop trying to solve everyone else's problems...we MIGHT have a better standing in the world.

Didn't you spew this same drivel in a thread in the last two days in this same web site?
USA: Boy Are We Hipocrits! (by S12PPL May 2 2005 in Non Aviation)

Yup, thought so . . . .

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Gotcha.

You got shit . . . .

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
And I promise you...had we had a natural disaster of our own...Very few countries would have come running to our aide.

Because we can take care of ourselves. Once again, might I remind you, it is a responsibility of a superpower. Our support in the recent Tsunami crisis had nothing to do with anything except helping thousands - hundreds of thousands of people less fortunate than ourselves - in a world of shit.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Shit...I must have been out in left feild these last 21 years...What was I thinking?

That would be my thinking . . . read the link I provided above, and my info to MD-90 . . . perhaps you might learn something. A glacier is not a frickin' base in anyone's imagination - well, except maybe yours    .

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Move into the city

Gawdamn, I live near downtown? How much closer you want me to move!?

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Well, typically when you nuke a country, the polite thing would be to clean up after your mess....

And typically, one doesn't just fly in on a Sunday (or Tuesday 9/11/01) morning and blow the shit out of a naval base without warning or a declaration of war (or fly planes into buildings).

Interesting signature you have . . . .21 years you haven't learned shit.

[Edited 2005-05-04 09:03:50]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
And the isolationist attitude of the United States was eliminated in WW2, and as I mentioned before - come on in to the 21st Century, you'd be amazed at the advances we made.

I would say that this countries isolationist policies ended LONG before that. Could say it even began with the Monroe Doctrine. Don't forget our intervention in the Phillipines. Or our war with Spain. Or Mexico. WWII was what propelled us to where we are now politically, but sadly we're giving it all back. All the goodwill, its going down the drain.
NO URLS in signature
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
I would say that this countries isolationist policies ended LONG before that.



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
Don't forget our intervention in the Phillipines. Or our war with Spain. Or Mexico

Yeah, I'd agree. The big push, was as you say, the entry into WW2.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
All the goodwill, its going down the drain.

History will tell that tale TBar . . . only history. None of us here are prognosticators . . . (some of here are in fact bullshit artists though). History will tell. As far as I'm concerned . . . the game is still afoot, and all is not yet lost.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 4:22 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Ahhhhh, that's right. People under the age of 18 can't possibly know what they're talking about.

I'll be 21 in June, S12PPL. I could've voted for Peroutka or Badnarik in the last presidential election, but I decided that I didn't want to participate in our sham election system.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
I would say that this countries isolationist policies ended LONG before that.

In 1861, I'd say.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
We wouldn't have to worry about people trying to invade America, if we weren't bussy invading them ourselves. Perhaps if we would mind our own damn business, and stop trying to solve everyone else's problems...we MIGHT have a better standing in the world.

That was George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin's position.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 21):
Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
We wouldn't have to worry about people trying to invade America, if we weren't bussy invading them ourselves. Perhaps if we would mind our own damn business, and stop trying to solve everyone else's problems...we MIGHT have a better standing in the world.

That was George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin's position.

MD-90, if we still lived in the 1700s/1800s that might be a sound practice. However . . . since we no longer communicate by carrier pigeon, pony express and telegraph wire, and it doesn't take two weeks to cross the continent on a train, and we have put people on the moon, and I'm "talking" to the world (literally) with this post, you simply must realize that any of their thinking, while sound 200 years ago, simply cannot and will not work in the 21st century . . .

S12PPL makes it sound as though every other week we're bounding off with the US military to invade some other country. . . . normal spew from him.

So, other than Iraq, please help me out here, in the last 30 years, who have we "invaded". And, when you answer state the reason why. I can't wait for this answer.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 4:44 pm

The same people sitting here saying we should go back to being the pre 20th century isolationists our founding fathers wanted us to be would also be the first ones throwing a hissy fit if:

We did not send aid to a disaster

We did not protect an ally or economic interest from invasion or worse

We had to endure further terrorist attacks on 9/11 scale or larger


Taking the advice of the founding fathers is not an all or nothing proposition. The world was a different place in 1787. The reason they made it possible to amend our constitution was the simple fact that TJ and his cronies were bright enough to know that the world was not going to be the same forever.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 5:44 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
As far as I'm concerned . . . the game is still afoot, and all is not yet lost.

I hope not. I really hope all is not yet lost. Problem is, I see a decline, I definitely believe we are no longer respected in the world like we were after WWII. I question many of my government's policies around the world in the last sixty years, most recently Iraq. Ultimately, agree with what the U.S. has done or not agree (as an American), I think we can all agree that our standing in the world is declining.
NO URLS in signature
 
pepef
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:12 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 6:09 pm

1 out of every 138 americans is in jail. You have a horrendous drug problem. People are afraid to go out after dark in the big cities. There are suburbs people are too scared to visit.
You get sued and sued for whatever you or your company does by mistake/accident.

You try to defend human rights in other countries, while every other prisoner in raped in jail in your own country.

I think you guys should concentrate on these internal matters for a while and not just foreign policy. I understand the threat, but I'd wager a lot more Americans are killed by Americans (murders, drugs etc.) than by all other nationalities combined (?).

There's a lot of good in your country, but lately, I think you've lost some control (in domestic security).

-pepef-
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting Pepef (Reply 25):
People are afraid to go out after dark in the big cities. There are suburbs people are too scared to visit.

Ever actually been here?

Quoting Pepef (Reply 25):
while every other prisoner in raped in jail in your own country

Maybe you have been here, if only to spend time in prison. If you don't want to get raped in prison maybe you should try not breaking the law. Seems to work for 137 out of every 138 of us according to your statistic.

Quoting Pepef (Reply 25):
I think you've lost some control (in domestic security).

So when did you last live here again?

So would it be ok if we just withdrew all our foriegn aid too? I am sure that uproar the Germans made over us offering to close a bunch of our bases there was just to make us feel wanted as well. We could sure use the money over here for a few things.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Wed May 04, 2005 11:37 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
Ahhhhh, that's right. People under the age of 18 can't possibly know what they're talking about. I'll tell you right now, I know a few people 18 and younger that probably have a better idea about our government,.........

What you don't understand is people over 18 were once 18 themselves. Thereby in retrospect remember how they harbored the illusion of wisdom and know-it-all-ness coupled with the frustration of not being taken seriously.

Though in this case the opinions you put forth wouldn't be taken seriously even from a 90 yr old. 

[Edited 2005-05-04 16:38:43]
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
S12PPL makes it sound as though every other week we're bounding off with the US military to invade some other country. . . . normal spew from him.

Do us all a favor....if my words are spew, what are yours? Get off your fricken high horse. If you want to play that game...Fine. If mine is spew, yours is no different.

And I'm not saying we invade a country every other week. I am saying we do a good job of putting bases in just about every other country with any kind of military power...And for those we don't...we do a really good job of planting ourselves next door in some weaker country in the name of "protecting" them, just so we can keep a watchful eye on them in case they MIGHT try something. Right wing nut job ultra patriots like you are the ones that scare me. You would have us go bounding into war every time another country spits in our direction, in the name of protecting America's dignity. Quotes like "When is the last time you thanked a veteran?" prove that.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 12:50 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 28):
You would have us go bounding into war every time another country spits in our direction

Not at all, war is an ugly nasty business. Have you ever participated in one? It's the last thing I want to do again. Diplomacy is definitely the best tact.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 28):
the name of protecting America's dignity

No, I think America (and Americans) are big enough take a few insults - that's proven every single day on A-Net . . .

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 28):
if my words are spew, what are yours? Get off your fricken high horse. If you want to play that game...Fine. If mine is spew, yours is no different.

 cry  Mom . . ANCFlyer called my words spewwww!!!  cry 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 1:57 am

It's dissapointing every time I see some new location our troops are deployed to. But I saw an interesting point in this thread...

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
The military´s job can not be to clean up the mess made by irresponsible and reckless government policies.

I would agree there; unfortunately, lately though...

And here's something that made me think...

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 15):
MD-90, are you kidding who is gona look after the rest of the needy countries? France? US has troops around the world for aid around those areas not because it is some sort of a police base.

No, I'm not going to pick on France or anything. But my reply to this is it seems we're !#$%^ if we do and @$#^& if we don't. Look at the flak we get for not doing more to stop the crises in the Darfur region, and that slaughter a while back in Rwanda. If we enter Iraq... it's only because we have a thing with their oil, and Bushius II is completing what Bushius I started. I'm not getting into a debate on what this war in Iraq is or isin't about, I'm just stating what I seem to be observing, whether I'm right or wrong.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 17):
We certainly don't have the "duty" to rid the world of Tyrants. If a country wants to have a dictatorship...where is it ourbusiness to go in there and MAKE them run it democratically?

Ah yes, the old 'let's just let sleeping dogs lie' attitude. Leave the nice dictatorship alone, because they're not bothering you. I see this attitude more and more. Half the time it's from people who seem to like protesting just for the sake of protesting. If a country wants to have a dictatorship... tell me please, how would you know if they wanted one or not? A dictator keeps people under his/her thumb, don't they? Cheer for Uncle Saddam, or we'll come get your family. Then you. If Iraq really wanted to keep their dictatorship, why did their regular army not put up a larger fight? Why does it seem noone in Iraq is yearning for the good ole days of oppression under Saddam? Could you use the fact the people never staged a serious revolt under Hussein to prove they wanted him in power? Maybe he'd gas them if they tried, or torture them. So how does one tell?
29th, Let's Go!
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Mom . . ANCFlyer called my words spewwww!!!

Some how that is the type of response I would expect fro you.... Way to show that maturity! You would sit there and lay into someone young, though, if they tried to take a firm stance, and make a point of they're age...Then you make comments like that...Awesome

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
If a country wants to have a dictatorship... tell me please, how would you know if they wanted one or not?

Again...where is it our business to decide how other countries govern themselves? Since when did it become our responsibility to be mother hen to the world? Last time I checked we had a multi-trillion dollar national debt to over come, as well as our own social problems to fix. And don't let me hear the "We're the biggest and best country in the world, so it has to be our job" crap. That is the type of "spew", as ANCFlyer would call it...That gets us into conflicts around the globe.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
A dictator keeps people under his/her thumb, don't they?

Ah, yes...Let's pick out the few that torture and murder citizens that speak out against them...And label EVERY dictatorship like that..I believe our own President said he'd like a dictatorship, didn't he? 

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
If Iraq really wanted to keep their dictatorship, why did their regular army not put up a larger fight?

Because they're army was a joke? All Sadam ever needed was his goons to go and round up those he wanted to torture and murder.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
Could you use the fact the people never staged a serious revolt under Hussein to prove they wanted him in power? Maybe he'd gas them if they tried, or torture them. So how does one tell?

Ah, yes. Let's use Iraq is a prime example. You guys looooove to talk about Iraq...But never any other dictatorship. I find that amusing. Any time anyone ever speaks out against the war, it's straight back to "Well would you have rather had us leave Sadam in power????!!!" Here's a hint. Sadam didn't instigate 9/11. He had very very little to do with it. In case you've missed out, the CIA found zero evidence of that, and zero evidence Sadam had WMD's...Yet there we are. In Iraq...Bush finishing the job his father couldn't.

[Edited 2005-05-04 19:10:49]

[Edited 2005-05-04 19:17:11]
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:01 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:15 am

MD-90 ... I commend you for having political views that don't fall neatly into a liberal or conservative label. You do have some very traditional views on some things, but this post shows that you can see both sides of an issue.
Blank.
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
Again...where is it our business to decide how other countries govern themselves? Since when did it become our responsibility to be mother hen to the world? Last time I checked we had a multi-trillion dollar national debt to over come, as well as our own social problems to fix. And don't let me hear the "We're the biggest and best country in the world, so it has to be our job" crap. That is the type of "spew", as ANCFlyer would call it...That gets us into conflicts around the globe.

You're right... I'm perfectly content to leave a regime alone that murders other people. Hey, they ain't bugging me. If you get mugged and stabbed while walking down the sidewalk one day, where is it my or anyone else's responsibility to help you out? I've got problems of my own. I don't need that hastle. Yep, that makes sense to me.
29th, Let's Go!
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
Some how that is the type of response I would expect fro you.... Way to show that maturity! You would sit there and lay into someone young, though, if they tried to take a firm stance, and make a point of they're age...Then you make comments like that...Awesome

Age had nothing to do with the response I sent . . . it had everything to do with how funny your post struck me . . . sounded like my 11 year old whining about being picked on . . . . that's all.

I'll fully concede you make good points occasionally. And those points are worthy of discussion. Unfortunately, I didn't see any in this thread.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 28):
Right wing nut job ultra patriots like you are the ones that scare me

Oh, this was interesting. I don't think too many people on A-Net consider me a Right Wing Nut Job Ultra Patriot. They've read my other posts. More a Conservative leaning Centrist that's Independent of a Political Party (because our political parties are all screwed in their own way). Interesting perspective though. At least you didn't throw the infamous "neocon" moniker in there.   

Edit: Typos

[Edited 2005-05-04 19:46:00]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
All Sadam ever needed was his goons to go and round up those he wanted to torture and murder.

Good reason for them to keep him in power.
29th, Let's Go!
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:22 am

I'll agree with you America's political parties are pretty screwed right now. I'll still identify myself as a democrat simply because I can't stand the conservative views of the Republican party. That isn't to say the democrats have put a candidate forward in the last 8 years that is worth voting for.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 36):
I'll agree with you America's political parties are pretty screwed right now. I'll still identify myself as a democrat simply because I can't stand the conservative views of the Republican party. That isn't to say the democrats have put a candidate forward in the last 8 years that is worth voting for.

There we agree . . . and of course, the Republican's tossed Bob Dole to the Lions, remember . . . I don't know which candidate was more boring in the last 12 years, Dole or Gore? Oh, and Dukakis . . .bwaaaahaaaahaaaa. That picture of him riding in a tank comes to my mind every time I hear his name. At least the Army could have found him a helmet that FIT!  laughing 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
Ah, yes...Let's pick out the few that torture and murder citizens that speak out against them...And label EVERY dictatorship like that..

Where did I label EVERY dictatorship like that? I can't remember saying EVERY dictator MURDERED and TORTURED those who spoke out against them. It was the fear of that which I brought up. Don't put words into my mouth.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
All Sadam ever needed was his goons to go and round up those he wanted to torture and murder.

Thanks. I think you just answered this...

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
Could you use the fact the people never staged a serious revolt under Hussein to prove they wanted him in power? Maybe he'd gas them if they tried, or torture them. So how does one tell?



Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
Sadam didn't instigate 9/11. He had very very little to do with it.

Hmm... don't remember linking SADDAM and 9/11 either.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
In case you've missed out, the CIA found zero evidence of that, and zero evidence Sadam had WMD's.

In case you've missed out on half the stuff I said... including:

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 30):
I'm not getting into a debate on what this war in Iraq is or isin't about, I'm just stating what I seem to be observing, whether I'm right or wrong.

But, judging by your responses you seem to pay good attention to the news, so you must not miss much like the people who are actually serving over there. Speaking of which... why do you care if our troops are over there or not? It isin't you. We've got that debt, and other personal things to take care of. Don't worry about it, noone's asking you to serve.
29th, Let's Go!
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 34):
Oh, this was interesting. I don't think too many people on A-Net consider my a Right Wing Nut Job Unltra Patriot. They've read my other posts. More a Conservative leaning Centrist that's Independent of a Political Party (because our political parties are all screwed in their own way). Interesting perspective though. At least you didn't throw the infamous "neocon" moniker in there

I don't know, ANC... you sound a little  crazy  to me. j/k And I agree with that neocon thing... just too annoying.
29th, Let's Go!
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 39):
Where did I label EVERY dictatorship like that? I can't remember saying EVERY dictator MURDERED and TORTURED those who spoke out against them. It was the fear of that which I brought up. Don't put words into my mouth.

 hissyfit 

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 39):
Thanks. I think you just answered this...

No, I answered your question about why his army never put up a resistance....Go back and read what I type, k? Thanks...

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 39):
Hmm... don't remember linking SADDAM and 9/11 either.

Hmmmm...Never said you did, did I?

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 39):
But, judging by your responses you seem to pay good attention to the news, so you must not miss much like the people who are actually serving over there. Speaking of which... why do you care if our troops are over there or not? It isin't you. We've got that debt, and other personal things to take care of. Don't worry about it, noone's asking you to serve.

I care why I troops are over there, simply because I don't feel American soldiers should have to die without reason, simply because I President had a hard on for Sadam. That is the only reason they are over there. Bush wanted to get Sadam, and he thought he had his excuse after 9/11.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
Greyhound
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 36):
I'll agree with you America's political parties are pretty screwed right now. I'll still identify myself as a democrat simply because I can't stand the conservative views of the Republican party. That isn't to say the democrats have put a candidate forward in the last 8 years that is worth voting for.

I would have to agree with you on that. I lean conservative... but I think the extreme people in both parties are doing too much talking, and not enough listening to their people who lie somewhere in the middle. Especially your last comment.... I can't say either party has put forth someone I've really wanted to vote for (even though I have voted). Anyone on the horizon worth voting for that we haven't heard of yet?
29th, Let's Go!
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 3:01 am

More Lew Rockwell kookism and the Loser, err Libertarians wonder why they never get more than 1% of the vote.

And since he didn't vote he has no right to complain nor does he deserve to have any attention paid to his political rants.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 42):
And since he didn't vote he has no right to complain nor does he deserve to have any attention paid to his political rants.

 goldmedal   yes   goldmedal 

Quoting Libslayer (Reply 46):
Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 46):

Hey, Libslayer, didn’t you already get banned once using a suspiciously similar username?

True. I was banned because some Anti-American people can't handle opposing points of view.



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 47):
Quoting Libslayer (Reply 47):
I was banned because some Anti-American people can't handle opposing points of view.

You were probably banned because you were an idiot, not because of opposing points of view.

Thanks, Capt . . . saved me the trouble! I'm not even close to being Anti-America and I simply can't stand you.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 48):
More like because EVERYONE, no matter what party, couldn't handle your sad points of view.

"No matter what party" . . . . . hell, no matter what country
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 49):
No matter what party" . . . . . hell, no matter what country

Hell, was there even a single person on here who thought that that guy was making the least bit of sense? I know which answer my money's on.  biggrin 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flymia
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
4. It increases hatred of Americans. One need look no further than the "welcome" our troops have received in Iraq.

Thats wrong. People will always hate America. If the United States were to do nothing about terrorism and just let countries do what ever they want than we would be hated. Having the most powerful military in the world is just makes sense to police the wolrd a little bit.
What the US should have stayed in durring World War I and II?!!! Who cares let Saddam go into Kuwait let him kill inocent people as long as he is not is America.
Yea okay sure?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
daedaeg
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:54 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 8:01 am

So you suggest we let Canada(haha), the EU(more haha) or the UN(i'm dying here) handle global problems? MD-90 the world would be a far worst place if the United States did not intervene. Our presence around the world makes dictators think twice about trying to destroy their neighbor. Take South Korea for example. I have no doubt in my mind that South Korea would be an extension of North Korea if the US military was not present in the region. That would not be in any of our best interest.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
Biggles
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:19 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 54):
So you suggest we let Canada(haha),

Yeah,we can't help . Our soldiers are still in Afghanistan,trying to keep the peace there. We had more soldiers, but a couple of gung-ho ANG F-16 pilots got "confused".. tapedshut 
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Thu May 05, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 53):

Thats wrong. People will always hate America. I

People didn't, especially in the Middle East, for all of our history until after WWII when we became a superpower and had a nonstop succession of presidents who thought it was their divine right to rule the world.

America used to be admired, even in France, even after we stiffed them by not paying our debt to France after the Revolutionary War.

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 54):
Our presence around the world makes dictators think twice about trying to destroy their neighbor.

The USG is the biggest supporter of government dictators and thugs of any government in the world today. It was only two decades ago when we were firmly backing Saddam Hussein. We Americans ought to be ashamed of how many jackbooted thugs in power our federal government has supported over the years (especially the last few decades).
 
flymia
Posts: 6840
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: America Should Not Garrison The World: It's Wrong

Fri May 06, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 48):
People didn't, especially in the Middle East, for all of our history until after WWII when we became a superpower and had a nonstop succession of presidents who thought it was their divine right to rule the world.

America used to be admired, even in France, even after we stiffed them by not paying our debt to France after the Revolutionary War.

Well if it was not for the US who knows how WWII would have turned out.
The French should have admired us we saved them two times in WWI and WWII. And they were very happy that Britain did not control the US anymore. Made trade and everything else easier for them in North America.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dreadnought, salttee, Veetwo and 28 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos