CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 7:28 am

The other day I stopped to get gas at this Sunoco gas station near my house. Well besides the reg 87, 89, 93 octane gas and Diesel pumps, I saw a separate 'racing' fuel pump of 100 octanes! My question is kinda silly but what would happen if you gas up a regular car with that gasoline? I know it won't do jack to make it go faster or anything, but on the other hand can it be actually bad for your car??

Also, which cars out in the general market require that type of fuel?
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Also, which cars out in the general market require that type of fuel?

Nothing any of us will ever be able to afford.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
I know it won't do jack to make it go faster or anything, but on the other hand can it be actually bad for your car??

On some higher-end cars, it can help performance. It should not be bad for most cars though it may be too rich for some models that are set up for 87

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Also, which cars out in the general market require that type of fuel

None. Only some that have been heavily modified will require it, and even those can do ok on 91/93
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CometII
Topic Author
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 7:40 am

Not even exotics?

 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 7:45 am

100 octane gas is quite common here since a few years, it is ridiculous overpriced and I never bought it because it is useless according to the media and the German automobile clubs, just another way to rip-of customers.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9863
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 8:46 am

If it was cheaper then yes it would be very popular
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 9:38 am

Only performace cars and highend cars need high octane fuel. The engine has been tuned to run on higher octane fuel and when running with the optimum amount of octane you will get good performance out if it.

When the Subaru Liberty (Legacy) B4 came out here from Japan the engine had to be retuned to suit 95RON (I think thats our highest) as we don't have 100RON in Australia.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 9:42 am

100LL, the one thing I DON'T miss about flying..
This space intentionally left blank
 
NWADC9
Posts: 3940
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 6):
Only performace cars and highend cars need high octane fuel.

Not to mention old cars.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 10:20 am

Unless it's an older high-compression musclecar ( or heavily modified modern car...and that doesn't mean a K&N cone filter and neon-pink spark plug wires, and carbon-fiber cam cover on your Civic ) don't waste your money. 100 octane is way beyond any requirement of a computer controlled EFI car.

[Edited 2005-05-07 03:25:47]

[Edited 2005-05-07 03:26:17]
 
Biggles
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:19 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 10:23 am

Modified turbo and supercharged cars would like it. I wish we had it here.I could bump up the timing in my supercharged Mustang for track events and make more power.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12425
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 10:33 am

I believe the 100 octane fuel at Sunoco is for racing, similar to the gasoline they provide to NASCAR. Sunoco is about the largest refiner of racing gasoline in the USA. Such gasoline would also be appropiate for drag racing vehicles, hot rods, muscle cars of the 60's, other high preformance cars until the late 1970's. In the late 1950's, my father was working the 4-12 midnight shift at a Curtiss-Wright plant in New Jersey, and since there wasn't any 24/7 gas stations open on the way home, he decided to use some 130 octane piston engine aircraft fuel in his then fairly new 1957 Dodge V-8 (not a hemi). Said it had quite a kick, did about 110 mph on a divide highway on the way home, no cops around. The next day, he topped of the tank with regular fuel so didn't burn the engine up. Even today, some piston aircraft engines use 'high-test' fuel, with 100 or more octane.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 3:11 pm

Racing fuel will burn up the engine very quickly. There's a fuel station in Plymouth, Minnesota that is close to a race track. They sell racing fuel and regular fuel. Not only is the racing fuel about $6 a gallon, but it's something like 120 octane. The piston rings will become fried within a few seconds.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 3:16 pm

Having once built a nitrous oxide-powered street racer with my similarly-insane big brother, I'll just stay out of this thread from here on out.  tapedshut 
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 4:03 pm

Quoting Saxdiva (Reply 13):
a nitrous oxide-powered street racer

You mean nitrous oxide BOOSTED street racer, right?

100 octane fuel will do precisely nothing to the performance of your average car over regular 87 octane gasoline.

Furthermore, if you put that stuff in your tank and your car is under warranty still, well....it isn't under warranty anymore.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 4:11 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 14):

You mean nitrous oxide BOOSTED street racer, right?

Right... it had a bottle in the trunk. My bad--I'm still pretty buzzed from some tropical thing I concocted an hour or so ago.

Funny, whenever I think about those days, I mostly remember the smell of solvent. Guess what my job usually was? Seems like I spent an entire summer hunched over a bucket, cleaning stuff.
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sat May 07, 2005 10:38 pm

Be careful when deciding to purchase "racing fuel". Most of the time it is of the leaded variety, and will cause premature engine failure, along with damaging emission control items. 2-3 gallons added to an almost full tank should be ok, but never fill up with the stuff.
Yay Pudding!
 
Fokker Lover
Posts: 523
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 10:05 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sun May 08, 2005 12:17 am

If they are selling racing fuel at the pump, I'll guarantee that there is some sort of a race track nearby. I live between two quarter mile dragstrips and most of the stations around here sell "CAM 2" racing fuel. It was 4 dollars a gallon when we were paying 1 dollar for 87 octane. That's one of those things where if the demand is there, they will supply it. If you don't have a 10 second car, you don't need it.
10,000 years ago we would have eaten you. Today, we drag you along and allow you to pollute the gene pool.
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sun May 08, 2005 12:25 pm

A Sunoco near where I live sells unleaded 100 octane "race gas." It's not true race gas because it's unleaded and it's 100 octane, but it's a considerable improvement over 93 octane. Some sunocos sell 110 octane, which is true race gas and IS leaded and WILL damage your catalytic converter. The 100 octane is street legal and will NOT damage your catalytic converter.

Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 17):
If you don't have a 10 second car, you don't need it.

Not true. High-boost turbo cars such as the WRX STi will actually pick up some horsepower when running race gas - the reason is the higher the octane, the less likely the engine is to ping - all modern gasoline engines have knock sensors which detect ping and tell the computer to pull the ignition timing back, which prevents pinging, but reduces power as well.
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sun May 08, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
Racing fuel will burn up the engine very quickly. There's a fuel station in Plymouth, Minnesota that is close to a race track. They sell racing fuel and regular fuel. Not only is the racing fuel about $6 a gallon, but it's something like 120 octane. The piston rings will become fried within a few seconds.

Uh, where did you come up with that? You're either misunderstanding a description, or you've been misled...

Race gas is very high octane. The higher the octane of the fuel, the less likely the engine is to ping(detonate) while running that fuel. Detonation is what will burn up the engine in a few seconds if severe enough. Since racing fuel greatly reduces or prevents detonation, it will protect the engine.

I know a guy with a modded turbo car who ran 15psi boost on 87 regular, and it wasn't long before he'd melted 2 of his pistons.

The leaded variety of race gas can burn up your catalytic converter, but that is easily replacable and universal replacements are available for around $40-70 depending on the application.

and true race gas is either 110oct or 112oct, not 120oct.

not to be rude, but please research this stuff before you post.

[Edited 2005-05-08 08:34:00]
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sun May 08, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 17):

all modern gasoline engines have knock sensors which detect ping and tell the computer to pull the ignition timing back, which prevents pinging, but reduces power as well.

"Relatively" modern. Computer controlled timing, utilizing knock sensors were common from the mid-80's on. Higher octane will allow more timing, and more power....to a point. Engines with high cylinder pressures ( high compression ratio, cam timing, or forced induction ) will be more susceptable to detonation and can benefit from more octane ( to a point, other dynamics make themselves known ), but these cars are an exception and therefore beyond the scope of the basic question of this thread.

FokkerLover's "10 second" comment is likely more true than false. There are 10 second cars running these times on pump gas ( 93 ) and cast-iron heads. Lots of factors.............
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Sun May 08, 2005 11:08 pm

Quoting USAir_757 (Reply 19):
The leaded variety of race gas can burn up your catalytic converter

Not only that, but -can- cause damage to the valves. Something about hardened valves or something like that. Its been awhile since I've messed around in racing.
Yay Pudding!
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 12:33 am

The last several posters, US, NKP and Go3, have a pretty good handle on the perspective. Remember, lead is the cheapest way to increase octane and it is also a natural valve lubricant. Before "exotic" valve metallurgy, valves and their seats would wear prematurely without lead additives, especially with higher compression ratios. (What in the world are we operators of warbirds going to de when lead *100LL* is totally outlawed?)

In modern automotive engines, the introduction of computerised spark advance/retard ignition will generally allow the use of any non-leaded fuel in particular situations, but be aware that some performance vehicles have specific requirements. For example, our owner's manual on the 300C specifies mid-grade only; "regular" or "premium" not recommended. Other cars (I think Corvette) specifies premium grade only. Leaded fuel, as mentioned before, will contaminate catalytic converters and should be avoided.

One thing that the manufacturers have done admirably (Because of government prodding?) is to mass-produce powerplants that perform pretty well and last pretty long with modern lower octain fuels. BTW, I have a '95 Chev S-10 with 148,000 miles on it with original catalytic converter and I just passed emissions test. I know they are only "guaranteed" for 50,000 miles, but wonder if I am setting some kind of record. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 21):
Not only that, but -can- cause damage to the valves. Something about hardened valves or something like that. Its been awhile since I've messed around in racing.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the problems with valves, though that is actually less likely to happen than is the catalytic converter being burned up. Oh well, it was 3am, and the post I quoted kinda annoyed me.

And yes, I know some cars actually recommend a lower octane. My dad's new Accord's manual recommends 87 regular and advises against 93 premium.

The comment stating that the very high octane fuel will "burn up your engine in a few seconds" is what I was aiming to address. If that were true, my engine would've burned up long ago.
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting USAir_757 (Reply 23):
though that is actually less likely to happen than is the catalytic converter being burned up

I've heard plugged up, rather than burned up, checkeredflag  which could be the same thing to some people, either way they should to be replaced. O2 sensors also take a beating, as leaded fuel leaves a coating on them, and causes them to give false readings. Don't ask me how I know this, putting leaded fuel into any car that has the ole' Unleaded Fuel Only warning is against the law.

FYI: Racing fuels are exempt from fuel taxes in most localities. Using them on road could be construed as tax evasion, as the fuel is for off road purposes only. Paying 4-5x the cost of regular fuel to avoid the fuel tax, is complete lunacy anyway. It is doubtful they would ever check cars, but in my occupation, I get checked all the time.  Angry
Yay Pudding!
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 24):
I've heard plugged up, rather than burned up, checkeredflag which could be the same thing to some people, either way they should to be replaced.

yeah, same difference to me. either way, plugged up or burned up, it's still trashed and has to be replaced  Wink
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
T prop
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:33 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 6:01 am

The 100 octane Sunoco sells at the pump is unleaded. The Dodge Neon SRT 4 stage 3 would need it. On this car there is an octane switch. set the switch for 100 octane and the ECU tunes the engine for it.

BTW, this car kicks out 365 horsepower and runs an 11 second 1/4 mile w/ slicks.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...edans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_stage3/

Ain't technology great?!

T prop
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Mon May 09, 2005 7:23 am

Quoting USAir_757 (Reply 19):
Uh, where did you come up with that? You're either misunderstanding a description, or you've been misled

From a race car driver.

It's been three years since I was at that station, so I couldn't remember the exact octane.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 12:09 am

Saxdiva:
A buddy of mine down in Pasadena also had a 'big brother' that had a nitrous oxide boosted street racer. He had a 1971 Pontiac LeMans. That thing hauled some serious ass!
Now here's the stupid part. My friend put some of that stuff in his 1985 Ford Escort and it melted the engine. How STUPID?!?!?!?!
Bring back the Concorde
 
Biggles
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:19 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 1:01 am

There are loads of four banger engines running nitrous.The engines just have to be set up and tuned properly.
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 2:20 am

Mark, I'm willing to bet he was talking about detonation. What you were takling about sounds consistant with detonation.

Superfly, that's caused by too much NO2 and not enough fuel.
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 2:28 am

USAir_757:
My friend who did this wasn't that car savy. He learned that the hard way. Anyhow it was a good reason to get rid of that Escort. It was a lemon. This was in 1994 by the way so it was no longer a new car.
Bring back the Concorde
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 2:35 am

Ah, probably put a dry kit in without adding extra fuel...couldn't say for sure though without knowing how quickly it happened
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 4:33 pm

Ha ! Ha ! Ha !

When I was in group N, our "race fuel" was regular off-the-mill 95 unleaded ! (lowest that you can get in Europe)

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: 'Racing' Fuel On Normal Cars

Tue May 10, 2005 5:26 pm

My old station manager one time got his hands on some Purple Avgas and ran it through the 350 Chevy that powered his truck.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PacificBeach88, VapourTrails, WarRI1 and 20 guests