dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:01 am

I know it's a christian school, but pahleez! She got married!

Some of these people need to start thinking....and not just being idiots!


School punishes teacher for getting pregnant before married

Wednesday, May 11, 2005

ASSOCIATED PRESS

BERRIEN SPRINGS -- A kindergarten teacher at private Christian elementary school has been placed on paid administrative leave until her contract expires because she became pregnant before she got married.

Christine John, a first-year teacher at the Village Seventh-day Adventist Elementary School in Berrien Springs, said she was asked at a meeting with school officials last week why she was four months along in her pregnancy when she had been married just two months before.

John, 24, said school officials told her that premarital sex is an act strictly forbidden by the school system and the Seventh-day Adventist religion. In the end, she was told her services were no longer necessary.

Now she's considering legal action.

"I was very surprised. Shocked," John told the South Bend (Ind.) Tribune for a Wednesday story. "I had no clue what the meeting was about."

School officials said John was placed on administrative leave until her contract expires.

Michael Nickless, communication director for the Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, said that under the school's policies, unmarried teachers who get pregnant can be fired immediately.

"In our school system, our teachers are expected to be a positive spiritual example for our congregations and youth," Nickless said in a prepared statement. "When she (John) chose behavior contrary to those values, she was placed on administrative leave.

"Even though policy allows for immediate dismissal, out of compassion, her present contract continues to be honored and she will receive full pay and benefits until the contract expires."

John said her contract runs through June

http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm4126_20050511.htm
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Greyhound
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
John, 24, said school officials told her that premarital sex is an act strictly forbidden by the school system and the Seventh-day Adventist religion. In the end, she was told her services were no longer necessary.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
"In our school system, our teachers are expected to be a positive spiritual example for our congregations and youth,"

Apparently judging others harshly is not forbidden by the school and is expected of the teachers.

As for those school officials, we just don't HEAR of what 'forbidden' acts they have done.
29th, Let's Go!
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:14 am

Isn't this against some discrimination law? It doesn't matter if it's a private or public school, christian or not. They have no right to do this. I hope she sues and wins.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:17 am

Getting fired from the school will probably be the best thing that could happend to her.

I went to a Christian school myself for a couple of years, it really messed me up. We weren't allowed to post any pictures in our lockers unless they had a bible verse quoted. So I had to find some bible verses for all my pics of A320's and B767's...  Yeah sure
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:18 am

She had sex before she was married?!? THE HARLOT SHOULD BE STONED!

Signed,
Lib___slayer
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:26 am

Where is the difference between these school people and the Taliban?
 
learpilot
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:33 am

Absolutely nothing. .
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ltbewr
Posts: 12424
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:34 am

What would have happened to her if she had an abortion and the administartion found out? Stone her to death?
Look, she signed a contract with a private, religious school that made it clear that she had to follow the teachings of the church, so I doubt she has much of a legal recourse. Still though, it does seem counterdictory to be so 'Un-Christian" as to dismiss her.
 
Greyhound
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 4):
She had sex before she was married?!? THE HARLOT SHOULD BE STONED!

Signed,
Lib___slayer

Speaking of Jerry Falwell Jr., where is that turd? Has a.net flushed him yet?

I'm not well read on the legalities of her situation, or the school's finances, but couldn't that school be in some $hit if it recieves federal funds, and yet still discriminates?
29th, Let's Go!
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 2):
It doesn't matter if it's a private

It does.. Private groups can do what they want. That's why they don't have Gay Boy Scout Troop leaders.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 5):
Where is the difference between these school people and the Taliban?
Learpilot,reply=6 Absolutely nothing. .

 checkmark 

At least she is on PAID administrative leave, that should give her plenty of time to sort through the hundreds of 'better' offers she should get.
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Mir
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
So I had to find some bible verses for all my pics of A320's and B767's...

"And God did then appear to Noel Forgeard in a vison and did say: 'Noel, thou shalt build a new aircraft, one that is flown entirely by computer, for it shall save on weight and be more reliable, plus it won't be as subject to human error. This thou shalt do, Noel, and thou shalt call it the A320, and it shall become the standard by which all other short-to-medium range airliners are measured, and all shall bow to it and rejoice.' And Noel did respond to the Lord, saying 'But if the computers are to be built by man, does that not keep the same possibility of error?' And the Lord did pause for a moment, and then did say 'Ok, smartass, just for that I shall cause people to think that thy company recieves unfair subsidies, and thou shalt never heard the end of the whining.' And Noel did take back what he said, but the Lord's word is law, and he refused to change his mind. And thus the A vs B thread was born."

-Airliners 3:141-147  mischievous 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
"And God did then appear to Noel Forgeard in a vison and did say: 'Noel, thou shalt build a new aircraft, one that is flown entirely by computer, for it shall save on weight and be more reliable, plus it won't be as subject to human error. This thou shalt do, Noel, and thou shalt call it the A320, and it shall become the standard by which all other short-to-medium range airliners are measured, and all shall bow to it and rejoice.' And Noel did respond to the Lord, saying 'But if the computers are to be built by man, does that not keep the same possibility of error?' And the Lord did pause for a moment, and then did say 'Ok, smartass, just for that I shall cause people to think that thy company recieves unfair subsidies, and thou shalt never heard the end of the whining.' And Noel did take back what he said, but the Lord's word is law, and he refused to change his mind. And thus the A vs B thread was born."

-Airliners 3:141-147

ROFLMAO!!! Good job, Mir.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
NWADC9
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:05 am

That is outragous.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
So I had to find some bible verses for all my pics of A320's and B767's...

"...Then God said, "Let there be a metal tube that can carry people from point A to point B faster than Adam carrying Eve around." And the airplane was born. God added hot f/a's and yakking captains, and saw that it was good."

-Airliners 3:3-5
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
ACDC8
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:05 am

Mir,

And I thought I've lost all my faith in the scriptures! Thank-you for guiding me back on to the path of righteousness.

That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.  bigthumbsup 
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 13):
And I thought I've lost all my faith in the scriptures! Thank-you for guiding me back on to the path of righteousness.

Never fear, my son, for those who are touched by the words of the Book of Airliners can never stray from it's holy path.  angel 

Nice one, NWA  thumbsup 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:19 am

Back on topic (although I enjoyed the airliner scripture), did this woman sign a contract? Was there a morals clause that outlined unacceptable actions? While I'm not a supporter of religious nutcases, remember, she wanted to be one of them.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
sacflyer
Posts: 364
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 15):
Back on topic (although I enjoyed the airliner scripture), did this woman sign a contract? Was there a morals clause that outlined unacceptable actions? While I'm not a supporter of religious nutcases, remember, she wanted to be one of them.

Exactly, at least there is no double standard here for teachers and students. The school would immediately throw a pregnant teen out of school because it is not in line with the values of the school which is why parents send their children there.

Now if they can just allow people who don't attend that school to live THEIR lives as they choose.
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mirrodie
Posts: 6789
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:15 am

sheesh,

you'd think she had sex and had a baby with one of her students, like one teacher in the news did.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 17):
sheesh,

you'd think she had sex and had a baby with one of her students, like one teacher in the news did.

Excuse me, she is a KINDERGARTEN teacher!  crazy 

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
Excuse me, she is a KINDERGARTEN teacher!

MD, I think your missing something here... There are media reports of K age students messing around.. granted it's with eachother and not teachers.. but if I knew my son was banging his Art teacher, I'd be proud!!
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mirrodie
Posts: 6789
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:27 am

you'd think she had sex and had a baby WITH one of her students, like one teacher in the news did.

dont you remember that old story, the gal who had sex with a student and had his baby? might even had been a teacher in NY, I dont remember.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 16):
Now if they can just allow people who don't attend that school to live THEIR lives as they choose.

Amen to that! Wink

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 20):
dont you remember that old story, the gal who had sex with a student and had his baby? might even had been a teacher in NY, I dont remember.

It was Oregon.. Mary Kay LeTourneau , and she had two of his children, but he was aged 13 when it first started. They are about to, or just got married for real after she got out of prison.
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USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
"And God did then appear to Noel Forgeard in a vison and did say: 'Noel, thou shalt build a new aircraft, one that is flown entirely by computer, for it shall save on weight and be more reliable, plus it won't be as subject to human error. This thou shalt do, Noel, and thou shalt call it the A320, and it shall become the standard by which all other short-to-medium range airliners are measured, and all shall bow to it and rejoice.' And Noel did respond to the Lord, saying 'But if the computers are to be built by man, does that not keep the same possibility of error?' And the Lord did pause for a moment, and then did say 'Ok, smartass, just for that I shall cause people to think that thy company recieves unfair subsidies, and thou shalt never heard the end of the whining.' And Noel did take back what he said, but the Lord's word is law, and he refused to change his mind. And thus the A vs B thread was born."

-Airliners 3:141-147 mischievous

-Mir

OH MY GOD BEST REPLY EVER!!
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unmlobo
Posts: 144
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:42 am

Sorry TedTAce it was Washington. I know because I went to high school in Washington and they had a test question on the standarized tests that all 10th graders had to take, the answer ended up being Mary, Kay, Le, Tour, Neau; spelling out Mary Kay LeTourneau. They had to end up throwing the question out of the test because of it. Some one managed to slip it and thought it was funny. In fact I thought it was pretty funny too!
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redngold
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 6:46 am

There are two issues here:

1. It is a private parochial school. The same standards do not apply to "equal employment opportunity" at these schools as they do in public schools.

2. I'd tend to believe that her contract would include a morals clause. If so, if she's found in violation of that, she has no recourse.


redngold

Might I also add that Christians suing Christians is expressly prohibited by the New Testament... We are to seek our recourse through prayer and arbitration.  stirthepot 

[Edited 2005-05-11 23:47:39]
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FlyingTexan
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 7:21 am

So it the employers’ business who and what and when you sleep with them?

BTW – Mir, that was classic!
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 4):
THE HARLOT SHOULD BE STONED!

Hey! No stoning of Harlots!  Smile

Mir, that was hilarious. Thanks!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
allstarflyer
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 8:45 pm

So she made a mistake. She got knocked up before she was married, which is against the teachings of her faith. Looks like she followed through on her responsibilities and got married.

In private schools (I've been to them), the school can do pretty much what they want to do about this (because of the contracts the teachers sign), although, if she sues, she'll probably end up with a decent settlement (and set the school back years financially).

I'm all for waiting for two tying the knot 1st, but if she made a mistake, there ought to be some consideration. I don't know how these officials have confronted Mrs. John, but, sometimes, Christians rip a bit hard on their own for doing the nasty before they're married. Unfortunately for her, though, violating the clause means she breached the contract, but maybe Mrs. John shouldn't have signed it if she was banging her bf.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 9:20 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
.' And Noel did take back what he said, but the Lord's word is law, and he refused to change his mind. And thus the A vs B thread was born."

Book of Airliners, II, v2-4

2. And yeah, The Lord in his mercy did go into the land of the Boeingites, unto the City of E'ver'ett, and did appear unto the Prophet Stonecipher, who had built unto him the 737 unto the seventh generation.
3. The Lord sayeth unto him " I would punish the Airbus-ites, and my vengeance shall be great and mighty ! Build unto me an long-range twin with all-composite fuselage and engines that shall be without bleed until the world's end, that the Airbus-ites shall tear their hair and rend their clothes, and wear sack-cloth and ashes, and be cast into outer darkness, where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth."
4. And the Prophet Stonecipher did as The Lord commanded, but did take unto him a fellow executive who was without sin, and did know her, and The Lord waxed wrath and fired his ass.

 Big grin
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TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 9:21 pm

Quoting Unmlobo (Reply 24):
Sorry TedTAce it was Washington

I sit corrected....

Quoting Unmlobo (Reply 24):
Some one managed to slip it in

Yeah, back in the day I would have liked to have slipped it into her  Smile

Quoting Redngold (Reply 25):
Might I also add that Christians suing Christians is expressly prohibited by the New Testament... We are to seek our recourse through prayer and arbitration.

Sounds like witchcraft to me!! I love how apologetic your post appears...NOT

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 28):
she'll probably end up with a decent settlement

I Certainly hope so!!!
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dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 9:25 pm

So, she's a little pregars. Did her students know? Most likely not. And by the time she had her baby, her class wouldn't really remember the dates etc.

To me, as a non-Christian, it all sounds like it goes against the teachings of the new testament. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But didn't JC say things about those without sin should cast the first stone? Can you tell me that the school board was without sin?

Doesn't the new testament also preach forgiveness of sin?

Look, she did the right thing by getting married, ok she's a slut and forgot to wait until she got married, but I really think the school is making an anti-Christian statement.
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Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 10:13 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Getting fired from the school will probably be the best thing that could happend to her.

That's very true.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
so I doubt she has much of a legal recourse

I really hope she does. I remember hearing a similar story a while back in Ireland. (Can't remember how it ended... so I won't continue on about that!).

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
"And God did then appear to Noel Forgeard in a vison and did say: 'Noel, thou shalt build a new aircraft, one that is flown entirely by computer, for it shall save on weight and be more reliable, plus it won't be as subject to human error. This thou shalt do, Noel, and thou shalt call it the A320, and it shall become the standard by which all other short-to-medium range airliners are measured, and all shall bow to it and rejoice.' And Noel did respond to the Lord, saying 'But if the computers are to be built by man, does that not keep the same possibility of error?' And the Lord did pause for a moment, and then did say 'Ok, smartass, just for that I shall cause people to think that thy company recieves unfair subsidies, and thou shalt never heard the end of the whining.' And Noel did take back what he said, but the Lord's word is law, and he refused to change his mind. And thus the A vs B thread was born."

-Airliners 3:141-147

Mir... BRILLIANT!

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 31):
To me, as a non-Christian, it all sounds like it goes against the teachings of the new testament. Please correct me if I am wrong

As a Christian, I totally disagree with how the school has reacted. From what I was taught back in a private catholic school, everone can make mistakes, from which we learn, and if we realise our mistakes and do try to learn a lesson from them, well that's ok. Aren't we Christians (and humans in general) supposed to Forgive?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 31):
Look, she did the right thing by getting married, ok she's a slut and forgot to wait until she got married, but I really think the school is making an anti-Christian statement.

You're being funny with the "slut" remark, aren't you?
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redngold
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 10:15 pm

TedTAce -

While I am more on the side of forgiving people, and would probably forgive this woman after counseling her, I am not apologetic for other Christians who make their values clear and stick to them. If she signed a morals clause, and is found in violation of it, then she has to face the consequences.

Even in forgiveness, we have to face the consequences of our actions. Last night's "Law & Order" episode was a great example of this. Our faith is not mitigation for the consequences of our actions. While we may be forgiven by God, we still must accept punishment for our transgressions.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 32):
You're being funny with the "slut" remark, aren't you?

I was trying, but I guess it didn't work!
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Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Thu May 12, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 34):
I was trying, but I guess it didn't work!

Don't you worry Dtwclipper! I thought you were but just wanted to check. Myfault, I had to get up at 4am this morning, so I'm not really with it today.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
satx
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Fri May 13, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 8):
I'm not well read on the legalities of her situation, or the school's finances, but couldn't that school be in some $hit if it recieves federal funds, and yet still discriminates?

No. Under George W. Bush, public funding of private religious schools has skyrocketed. However, they are still free to discriminate on the basis of religion, whether before or after the fact. So-called 'Jesus Land' is no joke, people. It is a real place where the lives of real people are affected. We're even being forced to subsidize these religious institutions regardless if we benefit from their actions or support their views.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 28):
the school can do pretty much what they want to do about this (because of the contracts the teachers sign

Very true. If only people knew what was in those contracts. You're basically at the mercy of how others choose to view your life, and that's for public school teachers, let alone private school teachers.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 28):
if she sues, she'll probably end up with a decent settlement (and set the school back years financially).

No. If she sues she may very well cost the school some large legal fees while they defend themselves, but she is highly unlikely to win any significant sum against a private religious school that chose to kick her out for not upholding what they viewed as critical religious values. Don't assume that just because 99% of lawsuits in the news involve large awards that 99% of all lawsuits involve large awards.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 33):
Even in forgiveness, we have to face the consequences of our actions...While we may be forgiven by God, we still must accept punishment for our transgressions.

The world is full of far more serious indiscretions, and this is the battle these folks decided to fight?
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allstarflyer
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Fri May 13, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 30):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 28):
she'll probably end up with a decent settlement

I Certainly hope so!!!

In saying that, I hope she doesn't get a settlement. Whether or not you think the rules are ridiculous, she still signed a contract. I would expect someone to be fired for violating a contract they'd signed to accept employment. But, as we've all seen, sometimes people overlook the fact that rules were broken when sex was involved.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
TedTAce
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Fri May 13, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 37):
she still signed a contract. I

That probably didn't cover 'premarital sex' explictly.
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PacificWestern
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Fri May 13, 2005 8:25 am

Hey, if it turns out that the baby is born in a manger and is visited by three wise men, I am sure the school would be very anxious to welcome her back on staff.
 
redngold
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RE: School Punishes Pregnant Teacher

Fri May 13, 2005 8:27 am

TedTAce -

Although in practice premarital sex may be "ok," according to the Bible and generally most moral clauses, it would not be.

I do understand your thought about trying to fight *this* battle, but on the other hand, I think it's good that we don't have to be talking about something much more widely accepted as "wrong" and much more "serious."
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