mdsh00
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Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sat May 21, 2005 8:03 am

I work at a Jewish Hospital in Los Angeles (Cedars-Sinai) and was walking in the main medical building and waiting for an elevator. There for the first time I saw a small sign next to one elevator which said:

"THIS ELEVATOR STOPS AT EVERY FLOOR ON SATURDAYS AND JEWISH HOLIDAYS"

So can any of the jewish a.netters explain to me why an elevator needs to stop on every floor on Shabbat and Jewish holidays?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sat May 21, 2005 8:08 am

I'm not Jewish, but I guess it's to be with Sabbath rules, when any physical work is forbidden, including pushing the elevator's floor button. That way, the faithful use the elevator without breaking the rules.

[Edited 2005-05-21 01:16:51]
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theCoz
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sat May 21, 2005 8:15 am

Isn't the act of walking onto an elevator work?
 
aloges
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sat May 21, 2005 8:19 am

I know I might get  flamed  for this, but if that kind of "obeying rules" isn't wacky, what is?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
senorcarnival
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sat May 21, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 1):
I'm not Jewish, but I guess it's to be with Sabbath rules, when any physical work is forbidden, including pushing the elevator's floor button. That way, the faithful use the elevator without breaking the rules.

That is correct. Most oven manufacturers make some models that include what is called "Sabbath mode." The oven will stay on a low heat to maintain the food warm for several hours for this very reason. So you cook the grub the day before the holiday or Sabbath, and just leave it in the oven in this mode until it's time to eat.
Before then, ovens had a timer that would shut the unit off if it stayed on at "x" temperature for "y" hours.
SOURCE: http://www.wordspy.com/words/Sabbathmode.asp
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Mir
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:16 am

So, the big question is, will El Al order planes that can fly themselves for use on the Sabbath, without any pilot "interference?"  Wink

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
levg79
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
So, the big question is, will El Al order planes that can fly themselves for use on the Sabbath, without any pilot "interference?"

It's different for the planes than elevators. It is against Jewish religion to burn something on Sabbath. Therefore, an extra person in the airplane would cause the airplane to burn more fuel. This is illegal for an observant Jew to cause this extra fuel burn.

Getting back to the elevator example. As far as the religion goes, elevators don't require extra burn so riding the elevator is permissable. Pushing a floor button, on the other hand, turns on the electric motor running the elevator, which is prohibited. Elevator that automatically stops on every floor solves that problem.

On the other note, I myself am not sure why walking through the automatic door is considered "work" while physically opening the door is alright. Perhaps someone who is more religious than myself can explain this better.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
Mir
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6):
It's different for the planes than elevators. It is against Jewish religion to burn something on Sabbath. Therefore, an extra person in the airplane would cause the airplane to burn more fuel. This is illegal for an observant Jew to cause this extra fuel burn.

Well, you learn something new every day. Thanks for the explanation.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:36 am

Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?
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UAL747
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:39 am

Probably violated Jewish Sabbath laws. Pushing the keys on the computer is in direct violation! LOL  Smile

UAL
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SFOMEX
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

Interesting news. I wasn't on-line for many hours, so I couldn't check this thread. Maybe someone got too aggressive criticizing Sabbath rules, but who knows.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
Klaus
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 7:22 am

Elevators which stop on every level actually consume much more energy than in the normal mode of operation, so it´s almost certain that more fuel has to be burned in power plants.

But superstition has never been logical...  crazy 
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 7:30 am

Physics Nobel laureate Richard P. Feynmann (himself Jewish) wrote an interesting treatise about this topic in his book "Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynmann!".
BTW, the autobiographical book makes good reading, gives a lot of information about the Manhattan project and shows a real genius with great common sense.
He also authored the famous Feynmann Lectures on Physics.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jutes85
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J...... Never mind.
nothing
 
AR1300
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 8:56 am

As statetd earlier, we are not allowed to do any ''work'' on the Sabbath.And pressing the elevator keys is a ''work''.That's why it has to stop in every floor.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 9):
Pushing the keys on the computer is in direct violation! LOL

You are actually right.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

The Mods.Remember they were writen because ''eisav sonei et Yaakov''.

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 2):
Isn't the act of walking onto an elevator work?

No.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
but if that kind of "obeying rules" isn't wacky, what is?

If you want on explanation on how Judaism work and thge reason for all the ''wacky'' rules send me on email.Check my profile.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
Elevators which stop on every level actually consume much more energy than in the normal mode of operation, so it´s almost certain that more fuel has to be burned in power plants.

So what? is on elevator, not an airplane!we don't care about fuel burn.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6):
On the other note, I myself am not sure why walking through the automatic door is considered "work" while physically opening the door is alright. Perhaps someone who is more religious than myself can explain this better.

You are triggering the infrared devise that opens the door, thus making it work.

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 13):
Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J...... Never mind.

Not funny at all, mister.Apologize.

Mike.P.S:if you want toknow what is considered ''work'' on the Sabbath and why, drop me on email.
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levg79
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 13):
Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J......

Isn't anti-semitism considered racist and thus prohibited on this forum? At least being Jewish I get offended by such a remark, although I'm not a forum moderator.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 11:20 am

AFAIK, Jute85 is Jewish as well, and is an Israeli citizen.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Cory6188
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 12:00 pm

All of this info about "work" according to the Jewish religion on the Sabbath is very interesting.

I have a question about "Sabbath mode" on the oven. In theory, even if it's already on, when you open the door, you're letting heat escape, therefore requiring that the oven do "work" to heat it up to the low temperature again. Why is opening the door permitted?

What about turning on a light?
Can you read a book?
Open the front door?
Get the mail from the mailbox? I mean, the mail truck had to do "work" to bring it to your house on Saturday.
What about heat or air conditioning? Or is it permissible as long as you don't touch the thermostat all day?

Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.
 
jutes85
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
AFAIK, Jute85 is Jewish as well, and is an Israeli citizen.

nothing
 
Go3Team
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 1:48 pm

Straying from the elevator topic... What does one do when such laws may be life threatning:
http://www.wnbc.com/news/4411621/detail.html
Yay Pudding!
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Sun May 22, 2005 3:46 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
All of this info about "work" according to the Jewish religion on the Sabbath is very interesting.

I have a question about "Sabbath mode" on the oven. In theory, even if it's already on, when you open the door, you're letting heat escape, therefore requiring that the oven do "work" to heat it up to the low temperature again. Why is opening the door permitted?

What about turning on a light?
Can you read a book?
Open the front door?
Get the mail from the mailbox? I mean, the mail truck had to do "work" to bring it to your house on Saturday.
What about heat or air conditioning? Or is it permissible as long as you don't touch the thermostat all day?

Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.

The general rule is that any work that creates or destroys anything is forbidden. Thus you can't turn on a light, can open the front door or move a heavy table, can get the mail in Israel (don't know about the rule for that in other countries , since the postman on Sat. can be Jewish). It's OK to enjoy the heat or a/c but you cannot turn it on.

As Klaus correctly mentioned do not try to find too much logic in these laws.
Turning on a light was actually a work 5000 years ago, but it is about time for the Judaism to adopt modern life. Actually some of them did. I'm an atheist and if you're looking for a religious example then it would be the reformists Jews.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 12:02 am

I was in palm springs on a saturday driving and I saw a Jew walking alone and was waiting for the light to turn green for him so he could cross the street. I was looking at him and he was looking at me and my light turned green and he made a gesture like "go ahead there is nothing to see". That was weird. I guess he was young and not too comfortable in those clothes in the 105 degree heat.
 
LFutia
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 12:38 am

so.. that also means... going to take a crap is work too?
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 23):
... going to take a crap is work too?

Is it for you???
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
bezoar
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.

Protestants are still SUPPOSED to follow the Ten Commandments, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy. We don't do any better keeping that one than we do the others.

Jesus also gave other instructions, all of which make avoiding elevator buttons on the Sabbath look like child's play. For instance, He says in Luke 6:35 "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." How are we Christians doing on this one?

Interestingly, the first Christians were also Jews. For the first few centuries the Christian Sabbath was consistent with Jewish tradition - from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It was changed by Constantine's Edict in 321 AD.

Seventh Day Adventists returned to the roots, and consider Saturday to be the Sabbath.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
AR1300
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 20):
What does one do when such laws may be life threatning:

It is this old say in the Talmud: ''Profane one Sabbath, so you could be able to keep more in the future.''
It is refered to Life threating things.In such a case, not only it is allowed to do ''work'', but whoever who even tries to stick with the rules is considered a murderer if something happens.Life goes first.Without life, there is no Tora to keep.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 21):
I'm an atheist and if you're looking for a religious example then it would be the reformists Jews.

Hmmm, I don't think so.Tora is not ''owned'' by people to do as they will.You can't change the rules to your conviniance.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 21):
it is about time for the Judaism to adopt modern life

Again, you don't adopt Tora to you way of living, you adapt your way of living to Tora.But I'm not gonna start the Chareidi-Chiloni war.

Mike
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mdsh00
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 3:36 am

One question. How much are all of these rules adhered to? Is it more common among orthodox Jews vs. the everyday ones?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
MAH4546
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 27):
One question. How much are all of these rules adhered to? Is it more common among orthodox Jews vs. the everyday ones?

They are not adhered to by Reformist Jews, such as myself. It is mainly Orthodox Jews and other more religious sect of Judaism.
a.
 
AR1300
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
They are not adhered to by Reformist Jews



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
It is mainly Orthodox Jews and other more religious sect of Judaism.

Exactly.

Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
LFutia
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 24):
Is it for you???

its just one of the many things in life that ya just have to do....
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 20):
The general rule is that any work that creates or destroys anything is forbidden.

In other words, you should not even be ALIVE on the Sabbath, because your muscles (including your heart) CREATE body heat and BURN calories?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
AR1300
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 30):
In other words, you should not even be ALIVE on

You win the prize so far.The Stupidest thing said in this thread.Go hang around with TheCoz, you will make a good match.

Mike
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erikwilliam
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 11:29 pm

I´m sorry the ignorance, as I´m not jewish, but WHAT????

riding an elevator is prohibited or pressing the button that is??

work that makes money is prohibited or physical work is???

burning stuff is also?
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JGPH1A
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Mon May 23, 2005 11:53 pm

I thought the whole "can't switch the lights on" rule was about not creating a spark (ie. fire) on the Sabbath. Because switching electrical items on or off might create a spark (however small), thus breaking the "no lighting fires" rule. That's what I read somewhere (I forget where though).
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
sevenair
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 12:01 am

on a similar note, I work for a shop, which opens late, and most nights (im a student, so work late shift), there are often a very high concentration of Jewish customers at this time of day, comapred to other times, can anyone explain this???
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 12:02 am

What day/s of the week, sevenair?
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
sevenair
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 12:05 am

midweek, I usually work wednesday nights
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 32):
riding an elevator is prohibited or pressing the button that is??

Pressing the button is. (Closes electrical circuit - see JGP explanation)

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 32):
work that makes money is prohibited or physical work is???

Work that makes money is. According to Judaism one cannot make profit on Saturday. Physical work is allowed as long as it does not create or destroy anything. In other words it's OK to move things, but it's not OK to assemble or destruct them.

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 32):
burning stuff is also?

Burning is destroying, thus prohibited.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 33):
I thought the whole "can't switch the lights on" rule was about not creating a spark (ie. fire) on the Sabbath. Because switching electrical items on or off might create a spark (however small), thus breaking the "no lighting fires" rule. That's what I read somewhere (I forget where though).

That's what I know as well.

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 34):
can anyone explain this???

Nope.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 25):
You can't change the rules to your conviniance.

Yes I can. Not only that , but I actually do it by being an atheist.

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 25):
But I'm not gonna start the Chareidi-Chiloni war.

Good. Ish BeEmunato Ichie. (Each man should follow his/hers own faith - or the lack of it in my case.)
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
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solnabo
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 2:09 am

Dont you dare giving birth on sabbath, way to much work......auuch  Wink

Sorry, couldnt resist!

Micke/SE
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Superfly
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 2:30 am

Mdsh00:
My sister used to work at Cedars-Sinai.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ltbewr
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 2:32 am

I have seen the same elevator set up in St. Barnibas Hospital in Livingston, NJ to cater to the large Jewish community in the area. Doctors whom are strick Orthodox Jews can do various functions if their is a need to save or preserve life.
There are also several other ways around certain strict Sabbath rules as well for the modern age. In some communities, a string is strung around a community so that one can be in their 'village' and walk around and some other things. This was recently attempted in Teaneck, NJ, but there was conflicts with seperation of church (shul) and state laws. One can put lights on a timer, one can have a non-Jew conduct business of to turn on a light, prepare food and so on.
 
daedaeg
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 2:47 am

How does an airline like El Al operate under these rules? Also, is sexual intercourse allowed on the sabbath?
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 31):
The Stupidest thing said in this thread.

There is nothing stupid about drawing a conclusion from the information provided. As LY7E7 confirmed what Klaus had said, there is not much logic in these laws. I am only trying to determine the smallest denominator of extent these laws govern. Obviously the requirement to not move a muscle (due to heat generation and the burning of calories) is practically too extreme. Nevertheless, based on the rules provided in this thread, in theory this should apply (especially when something so minute as closing an electrical circuit does):

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 37):
Pressing the button is. (Closes electrical circuit - see JGP explanation)

...

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 31):
You win the prize so far.

I wasn't looking for any handouts (or personal attacks for that matter). Just an explanation for a curious mind...
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
aloges
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 14):
If you want on explanation on how Judaism work and thge reason for all the ''wacky'' rules send me on email.Check my profile.

Don't mind if I do.

And please don't get me wrong, I don't mean to judge those Jewish people who engage in that "wacky" kind of obeying rules; it just tends to get too exotic for my taste, sometimes.

As for e.g. the "clean"/"unclean" rules, much like the rule that says Muslims have to wash before they pray, I can very well see how those made a lot of sense back in the days when they were made and how they still make some sense today.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 44):
As for e.g. the "clean"/"unclean" rules, much like the rule that says Muslims have to wash before they pray, I can very well see how those made a lot of sense back in the days when they were made and how they still make some sense today.

All these rules made sense thousands of years ago. Pigs used to be dirty animals, a compulsory day off was crucial before labour laws were accepted by the society and washing hands before eating was not trivial , etc. etc. etc.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
aloges
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 45):
All these rules made sense thousands of years ago. Pigs used to be dirty animals, a compulsory day off was crucial before labour laws were accepted by the society and washing hands before eating was not trivial , etc. etc. etc.

Precisely my point!  Smile
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
AR1300
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 33):
I thought the whole "can't switch the lights on" rule was about not creating a spark (ie. fire) on the Sabbath. Because switching electrical items on or off might create a spark (however small), thus breaking the "no lighting fires" rule.

I couldn't have said it better.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 41):
I have seen the same elevator set up in St. Barnibas Hospital in Livingston, NJ to cater to the large Jewish community in the area. Doctors whom are strick Orthodox Jews can do various functions if their is a need to save or preserve life.

Look at reply 25  Wink

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 42):
Also, is sexual intercourse allowed on the sabbath?

Not only is allowed, but is encouraged, given the reason that the sabbath is supposed to be enjoyable.In every possible way....

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 38):
Yes I can. Not only that , but I actually do it

I mean't to say that you are not allowed, not that you actually can't....
But as you say, Ish b'emunato ichyie.
However, in Dvarim....says that whoever says''Shalom Ihye Li, Ki Bishrirut Lybi elech''....the next Pasuk is ''Lo yobe Hashem Seloach lo.....''
Sorry.Coudn't resist.But as you said...

Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
tbar220
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 42):
How does an airline like El Al operate under these rules?

Doesn't El Al not operate on Shabbat?
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ly7e7
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RE: Elevator Rules For Jewish People?

Tue May 24, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 47):
''Lo yobe Hashem Seloach lo.....''

In my perception I sure cannot be forgiven by an entitiy that does not exist.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space

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