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Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 10:26 pm

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JGPH1A
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 10:28 pm

Bear in mind the whinger was a Republican from Alabama. 'Nuff said, methinks Big grin
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Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 10:32 pm

This congressman needs to shut the fuck up. This is a free society. Criticism of the military and our leaders is allowed. This isn't some seig-heil state, where we put people behind bars for speaking their minds. At least that isn't the America I grew up in.

Another "our way or the highway" Republican, who wants to silence any opposition to the war in Iraq, or this administration's policies.

I guess he might as well charge me and half the country with treason, since our opposition to the war, in his view, probably undermines National Security.
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FlyingTexan
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
Bear in mind the whinger was a Republican from Alabama

One of the first things I noticed. Someone needs to remind Rep. Bachus there is a difference between treason and freedom of speech.

And someone needs to remind other right-wing Alabama politicians there is separation of church and state.
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tristarenvy
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 10:34 pm

Bill Maher. Spouting treason? Is that possible?!?!? Holy cow, lighten up, world! Listening to him, is like stepping into a shark tank. Chances are, you may have something you don't like, happen!

I disagree w/almost everything he says, but he has his moments. And he's not one of your typical comics who just says a lot of crap, for the quick laugh. He obviously thinks about what he's saying.

[Edited 2005-05-24 16:02:17]
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jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:21 pm

Lets face it.

The hoodlums who were involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal, the military scumbags who murdered Barry Winchell, the servicemen who raped and abused women in Okinawa are the real douche bags and low-lying fruit.

Screw the political correctness we're now supposed to wrap ourselves in with respect to the military in that we're supposed to think that they're all paragons of virtue. They're not.

The military like any other institution of its kind has its share of dimwitted, ultraconservative sexist, racist, and homophobic scum.

If some of you want to worship these bottom feeders, so be it. The rest of us will continue to call them for what they are.
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
This congressman needs to shut the fuck up. This is a free society.

Hypocrisy in one neat package. If this is a free society, why isn't the Congressman entitled to his opinion? Could it be that liberals only support freedom of expression when the opinion expressed agrees with them?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
Screw the political correctness we're now supposed to wrap ourselves in with respect to the military in that we're supposed to think that they're all paragons of virtue. They're not.

My opinion of the military forever changed when, at the same time you had the Tailhook scandal/coverup, and the quest to throw gays out of the military.

In the one, military brass stonewalled investigations into the fact that a bunch of young, straight, supposedly good young men had molsted and fondled women at a Vegas hotel, and in the other, some very good people serviing in the military were tossed simply because someone found out they were gay-never mind that many of them had served with honor and distinction.
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sacflyer
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 13):
If this is a free society, why isn't the Congressman entitled to his opinion?

Because the congressman is in a position of power and is advocating action against Maher for exercising his freedom of speech. I would call being charged by the government for treason and having the show pulled from the air to be more than just a congressman's freedom of speech.
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Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:32 pm

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 15):
Because the congressman is in a position of power and is advocating action against Maher for exercising his freedom of speech. I would call being charged by the government for treason and having the show pulled from the air to be more than just a congressman's freedom of speech.

But, he's a member of the MAJORITY party! He's allowed to do whatever he wants, because minority views don't matter!

Signed,

Pope
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 15):
I would call being charged by the government for treason and having the show pulled from the air to be more than just a congressman's freedom of speech.

It is a long-standing common law tradition that a member of Congress has absolute immunity to say whatever he want with respect to anything related to his duties - as absurd as it may be. I'm not defending the statement, its absurd, but I do have problem with liberals saying that they are the defenders of free speech but then only wanting to defend speech that agrees with them.

The Congressman has absolutely no authority to cause the prosecution of anyone for anything, let alone treason.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
He's allowed to do whatever he wants, because minority views don't matter!

I've never said that. Alphafalcon is the king of ducking the real issues and focusing attention on people who ask him to substantiate his ridiculous generalities.

I've challenged the falcon to offer a single opinion offered by Justice Scalia that demonstrates Scalia's purported "lunacy" but Alphafalcon has repeatedly ducked the issue. Instead of justifying his statement he wants to make the issue about me. Come on Alphafalcon, just one opinion to support your claim. It shouldn't be that hard, the man's been on the bench for over 20 years.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
sacflyer
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
The Congressman has absolutely no authority to cause the prosecution of anyone for anything, let alone treason.

So, why are congressmen called lawmakers?
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jamesag96
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Him being a douchbag wasn't what the subject was about, James. It was wheather what he said was treasonous, which it's not, or if his show should be cancelled because of it-which it isn't (and if such a call isn't facism, I don't know what is.)

You should really get off of your high horse. This article is about a dumbass Alabama congressman overreacting to a dumbass comic with little talent. Figured you guys had the character assasination of the congressman taken care of...so I thought I would remind you folks what type of person Bill Maher is.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Good-then why the hell didn't you say that, since it's on point, instead of the one-line idiocy you posted to begin with?

One line idocy...how is stating that Maher is a douchebag one line idiocy? Do you disagree with me?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
I don't care what you expect of me, James.

Well good...the feeling is mutual.

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 11):
Wrong!

Hmm...I think I am entitled to say as much or as little as I want as long as it conforms to the rules of this site. So yeah...enough was said.

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 11):
All we did was point out that you needed to say more and defend your point of view. Your stab and run tactics are not productive. Otherwise, don't complain when your vague attacks are criticized.

Why do I need to say more and defend my point of view? It isn't a stab and run tactic, I called a spade a spade...it's like saying 1+1=2. It is what it is.

Quoting Pope (Reply 13):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
This congressman needs to shut the fuck up. This is a free society.

Hypocrisy in one neat package. If this is a free society, why isn't the Congressman entitled to his opinion? Could it be that liberals only support freedom of expression when the opinion expressed agrees with them?

Now that is funny...and a good point.
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JGPH1A
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 19):
So, why are congressmen called lawmakers?

Because "Corrupt Scum-sucking Trough-Snouting Toe-Rag" was too long to fit on the office door.
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jamesag96
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Tue May 24, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 19):
Quoting Pope (Reply 17):
The Congressman has absolutely no authority to cause the prosecution of anyone for anything, let alone treason.

So, why are congressmen called lawmakers?

I noticed you used plural there...did you notice that?
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Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 20):
Why do I need to say more and defend my point of view?

I've been trying to drive home that point with a certain user who thinks he's a Pontiff.  Smile You do not, but I can grill you on it nonetheless, James. I know, as you said, you won't run and hide, and I do like that about you.

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 20):
It isn't a stab and run tactic, I called a spade a spade...it's like saying 1+1=2. It is what it is.

That is true, James. You are certainly no B757300, who doesn't defend his position after lobbing a grenade. You do defend your position, and do it usally very well. I may not agree with it 95% of the time, but you don't hide after making a stand. And I also tend to call a spade a spade, but I just think we're looking at spades in a different light.  Smile
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jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 12:16 am

Hypocrisy in one neat package. If this is a free society, why isn't the Congressman entitled to his opinion? Could it be that liberals only support freedom of expression when the opinion expressed agrees with them?

Are you completely nuts?

Or completely oblivious of what free speech entails?

Or do people like you defend every nauseating right winger to the exclusion of common sense? (Imagine if some blowhard like Al Sharpton said the equivalent. You people would be having a Linda Blair moment.)

The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech."

So, no, this dumb Congressman is NOT "entitled to his opinion" especially since his opinion is illegal, violative of the Constitution, and of the oath of office he took. If he wants to air his opinion, he should quit his office and then he is entitled to flap his gums all he wants.

This guy not only puts the Alabama delegation and the GOP to shame, he puts his entire state in a bad light. Which, I suppose, isn't that hard to do given the shining light that is Alabama.
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
Or do people like you defend every nauseating right winger to the exclusion of common sense?

Jay, if you read the entirety of my reply #17 I clearly state that I am not defending his comment in fact, I call it "absurd".

However, I'm sure that you learned in law school that a member of Congress has an absolute privilege against slander and libel on these sorts of statements. Furthermore, he is entitled to voice his opinion, no matter how absurd and the people of AL are entitled to vote his ass out of office.

Please don't distort my statement.
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dl021
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
This congressman needs to shut the fuck up. This is a free society. Criticism of the military and our leaders is allowed. This isn't some seig-heil state, where we put people behind bars for speaking their minds. At least that isn't the America I grew up in.

Did not read the rest of the thread.....I just have one question. Does the right we possess of freedom of speech not extend to congressmen? I think that criticism of critics is fair game. To give the critic an unassailable perch is unreasonable.
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Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:03 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 25):
However, I'm sure that you learned in law school that a member of Congress has an absolute privilege against slander and libel on these sorts of statements.

Slander? Lible? Of who? The Lynndie England's of the world, Pope? I didn't know it was a crime to critisize the armed forces of the United States, or the government this country. Indeed, WE, as the PEOPLE, have the privelage, and the right, if we see fit, to critisize our institutions. Yes, even when the majority party wants all Americans to see the military as some sort of sacred institution, we have the right to critisize both.

So the Congressman is the one in the wrong here. He has that hubris of power-thinking that his wish should be a command to others. It is a malady that many Republicans have these days, filled with the headiness of power-Bill Frist is a prime example. With power comes responsibility, and neither of these genetleman seem to want to wield it responsbily-they just want to wield it to the benefit of their party dogma.
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sacflyer
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 22):
I noticed you used plural there...did you notice that?

Yes, I noticed it. I wrote it that way because there are more than one of them. I think that is when you are supposed to use the plural, aren't you?

Congressman = Lawmaker
Congressmen = Lawmakers

What's your point?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:16 am

First the funny part:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
Quoting Sacflyer (Reply 19):
So, why are congressmen called lawmakers?

Because "Corrupt Scum-sucking Trough-Snouting Toe-Rag" was too long to fit on the office door.

Damn funny JGPPH1A . . . thanks for the wake up laugh.

Now for the thread . . . which went way off topic way too fast . . .

The Representative from Alabama is off his rocker . . . Bill Maher's commentary wasn't treasonous . . . not even close. The whole thing reminds me of some of the fights on A-Net - he said this and then he said that so now he's a dickhead . . . Ha Ha Ha . . .

I don't have an opinion about Maher either way . . . do like him, don't dislike him. If he blew off the planet tomorrow I probably wouldn't know . . . or give a hoot. . . .

Rep. Bachus, well, he's just a good ole boy from Alabama, and he's entitle to his opinion. Honestly, I never really heard much about the guy until today - went to read his bio, pretty uneventful, typical southern baptist Alabama politician . . .

This thread is a prime example of the "mountain out of mole hill" theory.
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 27):
So the Congressman is the one in the wrong here.

There's no debate there Alphafalcon. I've stated it clearly at least three times on this thread. But as absurd and as wrong as his statement is, he's entitled to make it.

Again, my only point of disagreement with you (on this matter) is that you illustrate the hypocrisy of the left with respect to free speech. Specifically, that all speech should be free as long as it criticizes the right. However, any speech attacking a liberal position is unacceptable.

Finally, your hypocrisy is reaching epic proportions in this statement:


Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
You are certainly no B757300, who doesn't defend his position after lobbing a grenade. You do defend your position, and do it usally very well. I may not agree with it 95% of the time, but you don't hide after making a stand.

Didn't you lob the Scalia is a lunatic grenade and then refuse to defend the position? I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself, find one opinion from Scalia that you believe is lunatic and let's debate it. If you can't then aren't you the one lobbing the grenades and then running for cover?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 30):
Didn't you lob the Scalia is a lunatic grenade and then refuse to defend the position?

Dude, get over your obsession already. You're hounding me like a dog sniffing another dog's ass, for chrissake. I told you-I don't like him, I don't like what he stands for, that's all you're getting. I don't run and hide like B757300 who won't defend anything.

Now, I'm off to work-maybe you can find someone else's butt to sniff for the next 10 hours or so. Good God.  Silly
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777236ER
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:26 am

As far as I can see, no one agrees with the Congressman. Arguing deep theological points about freedom, justice and law is a bit pointless, don't you think? Just move on.
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:28 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
I don't run and hide like B757300 who won't defend anything.

You only run and hide from things that you can't defend.

You made the statement - either back it up or have the balls to admit that you were wrong. But don't be calling out B757300 while doing exactly the same thing you criticize him for. Hypocrit.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
MattRB
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:48 am

Having the right does not alleviate one of responsibility for the things one says (the whole you can't yell 'Fire' in a crowded movie theater argument).

While Congressman Bachus does have the right to express his opinion, he must be mindful (especially in light of the fact he's congresscritter) of the manner and words he chooses to do so with.

Now, given he defined his use of 'treason' as "..to undermine the effort or national security of our country", I'd like to see him qualify his use of the word. The recruitment issues faced by the US military (the Army in this instance) are well documented and were made freely available by the Army themselves. Maher's commentary on something publicly available, therefore, is hardly undermining national security.

Sounds like more commentary from some blowhard congressman looking for a little time in the limelight.

I'd love to see Maher invite him on the show and go head-to-head.
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dvk
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 1:52 am

Bacchus is my congressman  Angry If anyone's a douche bag, it's him.
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tbar220
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
I don't have an opinion about Maher either way . . . do like him, don't dislike him.

So you like him right? Big grin
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
I don't have an opinion about Maher either way . . . do like him, don't dislike him.

So you like him right?

Dangit, those early morning, pre-coffee, just woke up posts . . .
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jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 3:42 am

However, I'm sure that you learned in law school that a member of Congress has an absolute privilege against slander and libel on these sorts of statements.

An elected Congressman sworn to defend the Constitution openly yapping about how he intends to gut it is not an issue of free speech. Your circuitous and stupid argument that essentially states that a defense of a strategy to gut free speech is a defense of free speech is pure unadulterated sh*t.

Just because this troll has an absolute defense against slander and libel (issues that don't even arise here in his comments to go after Maher and ban his show) doesn't imply that he is beyond reproach. Get with the program.

Your comments were directed at the fact that liberals are not coming to this man's defense in the cause of free speech. Why should they or anyone defend an attempt to ban free speech?
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 38):
Your comments were directed at the fact that liberals are not coming to this man's defense in the cause of free speech.

My comments were absolutely not directed at the fact that liberals were not coming to this man's defense in the cause of free speech.

Instead, and based largely on a book from Alan Dershowitz that I read several years ago, I believe that you can only call yourself a defender of free speech if you fight to defend the right for some to say something which you yourself personally abhor. You're not defending the idea, but instead the right to express it.

Liberals are big on encouraging open debate and expression of all points of view, as long as those view are in line with current liberal thought.

Next time ask before you jump to a conclusion.

As for your question - Why should they or anyone defend an attempt to ban free speech?

Because a person has a right to propose any crazy idea they want and have that idea debated. Strong ideas should be defended and weak ideas should be exposed for the idiocities (don't even know if that's a word) that they are.

I personally think that right wing wack jobs do themselves and their "conservative" causes much more harm than good by expressing these idiotic ideas. But by doing so, their expression serves to inform others about just how dangerous they are.

Instead of liberal constantly insisting that these guys "shut the fuck up" I think that these stupid comments should be openly debated. I would love to see Bill invite the Congressman on his show. I think the left does many causes it supports a disservice (i.e. gay marriage) by not encouraging more open debate on the issue.

This country should have a substantive debate on gay rights. I personally think that once you cut through the "shut the fuck up" rhetoric, a open an honest dialogue on the issue would result in most American agreeing that people deserve the same legal protections regardless of what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms. In the same vein, I think that a Congressman that is exposed as calling for criminal charges for statements made by a commentator / political humorist will find that the majority of his country does not support him and the dangerous policies he supports.

The single greatest asset we have as a country is the ability to vocally expression dissatisfaction with the status quo. All ideas are entitled to be debated. The cream will rise - the crap will sink.

"Shut the fuck up" doesn't encourage this at all.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 4:43 am

Point #1, quoting Bill Maher:

  • "More people joined the Michael Jackson fan club," Maher said of the Army's low recruitment numbers for April. "We've done picked all the low-lying Lynndie England fruit, and now we need warm bodies."

  • "Anyone who knows anything about my views and has watched my show knows that I have nothing but the highest regard for the men and women serving this country around the world."

Apparently not, Mr. Maher, if you're going to make a statement like the former.

Point #2:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech."

So, no, this dumb Congressman is NOT "entitled to his opinion" especially since his opinion is illegal, violative of the Constitution, and of the oath of office he took.

Jaysit, did you even read the First Amendment when you posted it? The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech. The congressman did NOT make a law abridging the freedom of speech, so therefore what he said (and his overall opinion) is NOT unconstitutional, and is NOT against the oath of office he took. He can say whatever he wants, he can practice his own religion, etc. BUT, he cannot make a law that censors freedom of speech, freedom of the press, establishes a state religion, etc. I'm amazed that even a lawyer like yourself would try to skew the Constitution that far...

Do I agree with what the congressman said about Maher? Not to the extent of being treasonous. Do I agree that everyone (including you, Maher, Falcon84, FlyingTexan, and all the other dissenters of the congressman) is entitled to their own opinion? Abso-fucking-lutely. But if you abuse this entitlement to skew the talking points that you yourself had mentioned, people will take notice.
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dvk
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 5:10 am

Personally, I wish Bachus WOULD shut the f**k up. I wish Jeff Sessions would shut the f**k up. I wish Gerald Allen would shut the f**k up. I wish Roy Moore would shut the f**k up. Why? Because they "represent" my state and embarrass it, and perpetuate the stereotype that too many people apply to everyone who lives here (including Jaysit, whom I respect and agree with on most issues, but who never distinguishes these moronic individuals from "the shining light that is Alabama"). I don't care at this point what Bachus's rights are. He's a mealy-mouthed puppet of the right wing, and I've detested him and his stupidity for as long as I can remember. I'm sick of the way a few people in power continue to make a laughing stock of Alabama.

But, for God's sake, and for one more time, some of you need to get it through your heads that these idiots didn't win 100% of the vote. It's bad enough that they won >50%, but stop insulting every resident of Alabama, and focus your vitriol appropriately.

And by the way, Scalia did show his lunatic side in the minority dissent against the Supreme Court decision striking down the Texas sodomy laws. Nothing he said was based on law. It was based on his own personal ideology.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 5:45 am

The congressman did NOT make a law abridging the freedom of speech, so therefore what he said (and his overall opinion) is NOT unconstitutional, and is NOT against the oath of office he took.

That is not the issue.
This sole Congressman cannot make a law banning free speech. The fact that he thought of it is a disgrace. Why should anyone defend his foolish views? While in his official position as Congressman it is his job to defend the Constitution, not to propose legislation that runs slipshod over it. If he were a postman or a pilot or a go-go dancer, he can say what he wants and we'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

As for your question - Why should they or anyone defend an attempt to ban free speech?

Because a person has a right to propose any crazy idea they want and have that idea debated.


You're lost in your own muck there. Defending an attempt to ban free speech would naturally mean that free speech in that defense should also be banned. If you want free speech, then defending its ban is a nonsensical non-starter.

I've also read Alan Dershowitz, and that isn't what Alan Dershowitz says. Maybe you need to dust off the jacket and re-read it.
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Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 42):
Why should anyone defend his foolish views?

So instead of the "right wing nuts" he constantly bashes determining what views are worthy of defending or not, Jay wants to be the sole arbiter.

As for the Congressman's role - it could be argued that since he has a Constitutional role in amending the Constitution, then he is carrying out that role in seeking to change it - although clearly for the worse in this case.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 42):
I've also read Alan Dershowitz, and that isn't what Alan Dershowitz says. Maybe you need to dust off the jacket and re-read it.

Though I don't have the book any more, I think I will have to make a trip to the library this weekend. I pretty sure I paraphrased the statement very closely. If you have the book, dust it off and make the post.

By the way - what's the name of the book?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 42):
By the way - what's the name of the book?

I searched on Amazon. I think the book's name is "Contrary to Popular Opinion". It's from 1992 so it's in the right time frame.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 35):
And by the way, Scalia did show his lunatic side in the minority dissent against the Supreme Court decision striking down the Texas sodomy laws. Nothing he said was based on law. It was based on his own personal ideology.

Here's the link to the dissent http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=US&vol=000&invol=02-102#dissent1. What in particular are you referring to when you say, "Nothing he said was based on law," because it seems that everything he says refers to legal holdings and prior court cases?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:13 am

So instead of the "right wing nuts" he constantly bashes determining what views are worthy of defending or not, Jay wants to be the sole arbiter.

You're clearly lost, aren't you?

This is not an issue of whether anyone should be an arbiter. This is not an issue concerning war, or gay rights, or abortion or what have you. It's the issue of free speech. Free speech has no arbiter. Thus, how can anyone defend a ban on free speech and claim to be defending free speech in the bargain? No one can. Not Rehnquist or Scalia or me or you or the lady who bags the groceries.

The Congressman may be entitled to shoot his mouth off, but we are entitled to tell him to shut up and respect the stature of his elected position.

Think before you post next time. Black isn't white and up isn't down.

As for the Congressman's role - it could be argued that since he has a Constitutional role in amending the Constitution, then he is carrying out that role in seeking to change it.

This fails the laugh test. He is attempting to VIOLATE the Constitution, not change it. That is not this Congressman's intent. You're fooling no one.

By the way - what's the name of the book?

Dershowitz has written several books on Constitutional rights. I've read three of them: A Secular Theory of the Origin of Rights, Shouting Fire and Sexual McCarthyism. They all deal with the fundamental nature of free speech. Not once does anyone - not even a Constitutionalist of his stature - imply that a defense of a ban on free speech is free speech.
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jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:21 am

What in particular are you referring to when you say, "Nothing he said was based on law," because it seems that everything he says refers to legal holdings and prior court cases?

Scalia referred to Bowers original holding, a holding that was overthrown by the Court in Lawrence. He also casually referred in passing to the fact that Romer had eroded prior legal biases against homosexuality, completely ignoring the fundamental importance of that case. In fact, he sneers at the law - at Griswold, Roe, Casey, Romer. Even Conservative jurists will tell you that the Lawrence dissent was Scalia's worst. He showed that he is not a conservative jurist, but a social traditionalist, willing to ignore the law in order to promote his own personal views.

Anyone can cite a case. Even a Supreme Court justice. Scalia, cornered in Lawrence, just comes out snarling and sounds foolish. He did this once before - in Romer v Evans. Its quite apparent that he can't control his temper when it comes to homosexuals.
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L.1011
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
This congressman needs to shut the fuck up. This is a free society. Criticism of the military and our leaders is allowed. This isn't some seig-heil state, where we put people behind bars for speaking their minds. At least that isn't the America I grew up in.

Exactly. Right on the money. There is no greater crime against freedom than censorship.
 
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 39):
He is attempting to VIOLATE the Constitution, not change it.

So according to your argument any Congressman that stated his opposition to slavery prior to the ratification of the 13th amendment was advocating the violation of the Constitution? That reasoning is absurd. He is entitled to advocate whatever cause he sees fit - and his constitutents are free to either accept that and re-elect him or vote his ass out.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 39):
Free speech has no arbiter.

Agreed. I would expand the notion to freedom of expression. When the left regularly calls for the suppression of ideas contrary to their beliefs, I object on the ground of hypocrisy.

If someone were to argue that the first amendment should be repealed, are you saying that their position wouldn't be entitled to the same protections that someone advocating an expansion of the rights contained therein?

As for the books, I've ordered it placed on hold and will pick it up this weekend. Clearly we're referring to different books because I've never read any of the three you mention by name, and you haven't read the one I'm referring to.

Jay - Scalia's dissent is based primarily on the court's haphazard treatment of stare decisis to which nobody seems to have a response.

I think the following quote from his dissent is most telling:

"Let me be clear that I have nothing against homosexuals, or any other group, promoting their agenda through normal democratic means. Social perceptions of sexual and other morality change over time, and every group has the right to persuade its fellow citizens that its view of such matters is the best. That homosexuals have achieved some success in that enterprise is attested to by the fact that Texas is one of the few remaining States that criminalize private, consensual homosexual acts. But persuading one's fellow citizens is one thing, and imposing one's views in absence of democratic majority will is something else. I would no more require a State to criminalize homosexual acts--or, for that matter, display any moral disapprobation of them--than I would forbid it to do so."

The reason the left hates Scalia so much is that he votes to interpret the Constitution as written instead of interpreting it in order to support whatever social goal either party to the litigation is trying to achieve when it is not provided for in the Constitution - regardless of whether he believe that the social goal is worthy or not.
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
This sole Congressman cannot make a law banning free speech.

Agreed.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
The fact that he thought of it is a disgrace.

Agreed.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Why should anyone defend his foolish views?

Rhetorical, but agreed in the rhetorical sense.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
While in his official position as Congressman it is his job to defend the Constitution, not to propose legislation that runs slipshod over it.

Agreed.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
If he were a postman or a pilot or a go-go dancer, he can say what he wants and we'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree that what he said is probably unbecoming of a U.S. Congressman, but that does not mean that what he said is unconstitutional or illegal as you had said earlier. He should be voted out of office, not brought up on charges.


PS: Jaysit, here's a helpful tip to ease the intricacy of online debating. If you would like to quote another user's text, simply highlight the specific text with your mouse and click the "Quote Selected Text" button on the top-right corner of that particular post. The text is then placed in your reply box for you.
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jaysit
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Wed May 25, 2005 7:12 am

The reason the left hates Scalia so much is that he votes to interpret the Constitution as written instead of interpreting it in order to support whatever social goal either party to the litigation is trying to achieve when it is not provided for in the Constitution - regardless of whether he believe that the social goal is worthy or not.

No one interprets the Constitution as written. Not even Scalia, so quit quoting some right wing screed you pulled off the internet. Scalia just sets his benchmark at a historical point that reflects his personal views of how society should be, rather than see the Constitution as the vague bulwark of rights agains majoritarian tyranny that has continually evolved over the years, much before the Justice even came on the judicial scene.

Scalia's dissent in Lawrence is a flagrant lie, namely his comment:

Let me be clear that I have nothing against homosexuals, or any other group, promoting their agenda through normal democratic means.

Really? His opinion in Rohmer v Evans said completely otherwise as he ranted and raved when the Court said that the majority could not deny a group from seeking legal and legislative redress from an elected official. His hatred towards homosexuals is plain and apparent.

As far as stare decisis goes, its interesting that Scalia joined in the Casey dissent which stated “authentic principles of stare decisis do not require that any portion of . . . [prior reasoning] to be kept intact. ‘Stare decisis is not . . . a universal, inexorable command.’ Our Constitutional watch does not cease merely because we have spoken before on an issue; when it becomes clear that a prior Constitutional interpretation is unsound, we are obliged to reexamine the question.”

It seems that the big hypocrite believes that stare decisis need not be adhered to when it will be used to overturn a case that he disagrees with.

So the reason that anyone left to Attilla the Hun finds Scalia distasteful is not because of his so called adherence to constitutional purity, but because of his constant violations of his own wretched double standards. In my opinion, the only reason he is considered brilliant is because his opinions are short and pithy. A whole generation of law students have him to thank before a Con Law final exam.
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dl021
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RE: Comedian Bill Maher Angers Congressman

Thu May 26, 2005 6:13 am

"Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., takes issue with remarks on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, first aired May 13, in which Maher points out the Army missed its recruiting goal by 42 percent in April.

"More people joined the Michael Jackson fan club," Maher said. "We've done picked all the low-lying Lynndie England fruit, and now we need warm bodies."


Thought I'd reprint the words used by Maher, so that people could decide for themselves what to think about what he said. The congressman probably could have reacted better, but his anger is pretty justified.

Maher is either a two faced liar, or he is truly confused. He insults the soldiers in the same interview that he praises them in general. You can't say that they are idiots while you talk about how honorable and capable they are. That's what he did when he again voiced conflicting statements.

Just like when he inserted foot in mouth about the terrorists being brave.
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