rootsair
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EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:07 pm

I would like to ask you folks who live in the EU what will happen if the French say "No" to the constitution....which is quite likely !

Will the EU constitution be adopted anyways?
And if yes what will France do ?
or
Simply, will it be aborted?

Please tell me since my lack of EU experience leads me to ignore some of these points. Thanks in Advance

[Edited 2005-05-26 09:15:02]
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UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:19 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Will the EU constitution be adopted anyways?

Not in its current form as it needs to be ratified by the 25 member states to be adopted.

Personally I shall vote a big resounding NO on Sunday.

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OYRJA
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:23 pm

The rest of the EU will invade them..
And the beginning of WW IV will happen  Wink
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:39 pm

I think France should be isolated, put under extreme pressure by the rest of the EU maybe be subject to some diplomatic sanctions - you know the way any small country would end up if THEY'd dare to disagree with the Chirac-Schroeder version of the future of the EU.
It certainly will be a lot of fun to see Chirac after his own people will shoot down his brainchild.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:58 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 3):
I think France should be isolated, put under extreme pressure by the rest of the EU maybe be subject to some diplomatic sanctions - you know the way any small country would end up if THEY'd dare to disagree with the Chirac-Schroeder version of the future of the EU.
It certainly will be a lot of fun to see Chirac after his own people will shoot down his brainchild.

Tsk tsk, you KNOW that's not how it works. Europe is run for the personal convenience of France, any benefits derived by other countries is purely incidental and should not be taken as an acknowledgement of their right to expect such benefits except at the whim of France. Does the name Napoleon mean nothing to you people ?!

 Big grin

I too will laugh like a drain if the NO wins - just to see Chirac look more like a knob than usual.
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oldeuropean
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 2):
The rest of the EU will invade them..
And the beginning of WW IV will happen

When was WWIII ?

Axel
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UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 3):
It certainly will be a lot of fun to see Chirac after his own people will shoot down his brainchild.

Chirac said he would step down if the "No" prevailed -now that could just backfire on him  Wink

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OYRJA
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 5):
When was WWIII ?

Thats what I like to call the War on Terror  Wink
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 7):
Thats what I like to call the War on Terror

You mean the War on Tourism ?
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pelican
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 5:15 pm

I don't know what will happen. But an observer could get the impression everytime it becomes serious with Europe the French get cold feet.

pelican
 
Banco
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
Does the name Napoleon mean nothing to you people ?!

Are you suggesting we can lock Chirac away on a small Atlantic island?

People of France: Your opportunity is clear! Big grin
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JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 5:57 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
Are you suggesting we can lock Chirac away on a small Atlantic island?

Feel free - don't let us stand in your way ! As long as you send Mr Blair with him (they SO deserve each other !)
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Banco
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
Feel free - don't let us stand in your way ! As long as you send Mr Blair with him (they SO deserve each other !)

I don't think there's an equivalent historical precedent. We could lock him away in Chequers, but it isn't quite the same. That's what comes of France continually losing to us all these centuries.  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
I don't think there's an equivalent historical precedent

Damn.

You'll have to make TB the EU Fisheries Minister or something, that's the 21st century political equivalent of St. Helena  Smile
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Banco
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 8:23 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
You'll have to make TB the EU Fisheries Minister or something

Or perhaps the EU Foreign Affairs chief. Responsibility without power, the prerogative of the eunuch through all history.  Wink
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JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 8:35 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
Responsibility without power, the prerogative of the eunuch through all history.

Sounds like our Tone, all right ! Thing is, he's after the EU President job, and Foreign Bod would be one step away - don't encourage him ! Nothing more powerful than Fisheries or Gender Issues (whatever they call it these days).
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dl021
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):

Tsk tsk, you KNOW that's not how it works. Europe is run for the personal convenience of France, any benefits derived by other countries is purely incidental and should not be taken as an acknowledgement of their right to expect such benefits except at the whim of France. Does the name Napoleon mean nothing to you people ?!

 rotfl  Do you think he will try to arrange for his burial at Les Invalides?

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
Chirac said he would step down if the "No" prevailed

You would think he would have learned after the last time he made a rash move and had to cohabitate.

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):

Are you suggesting we can lock Chirac away on a small Atlantic island?

Well, he's going to have to move somewhere outside of EU jurisdiction after he loses the protection of the Presidency. I have little doubt that his political enemies will go after him for the money scandals as soon as practicable.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 10:23 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 6):
Chirac said he would step down if the "No" prevailed -now that could just backfire on him

Sounds like he missed a perfectly good opportunity to shut up.  Wink

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Boeing4ever
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 10:30 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
Are you suggesting we can lock Chirac away on a small Atlantic island?

Ummm, isn't Corsica in the Mediterranean?
 Confused  Confused  Confused  Confused  Confused  Confused

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JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 18):
Ummm, isn't Corsica in the Mediterranean?

I suppose we could send Chirac there - I'll phone the Corsican seperatists and make sure they have enough limpet mines  Smile
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 18):
Ummm, isn't Corsica in the Mediterranean?

Napoleon was born on Corsica, but the site of his 2nd (and final) exile was on St. Helena, an island in the South Atlantic. This was after he escaped from the site of his 1st exile, Elba, which is in the Mediterranean.
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JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 20):
This was after he escaped from the site of his 1st exile, Elba, which is in the Mediterranean.

Small, pointless historical fact. Following his escape from Elba, Napoleon landed to rapturous greeting at Golfe Juan, which is 2 km or so from where I live. The landing is re-enacted every year, just to rub it in.
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Boeing4ever
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 20):
Napoleon was born on Corsica, but the site of his 2nd (and final) exile was on St. Helena, an island in the South Atlantic. This was after he escaped from the site of his 1st exile, Elba, which is in the Mediterranean.

Ahhhh, thanks for clearing that up. Got Elba and Corsica confused. That makes much more sense.

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whitehatter
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:07 pm

It's all academic anyway. If the French don't kick it out, the Dutch will. And us lot certainly won't have any truck with it as things stand.

The whole Constitution thing can be summed up as "an opportunity missed", as it doesn't address the fundamental misgivings too many people have with the EU. So screw it.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
cornish
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
You'll have to make TB the EU Fisheries Minister or something,

Don't mention Fisheries Ministers and EU when there's a Cornishman around. bloody quotas, bloody Spaniards  grumpy 

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
Are you suggesting we can lock Chirac away on a small Atlantic island?

Feel free - don't let us stand in your way ! As long as you send Mr Blair with him (they SO deserve each other !)

Can we make some space for Berlesconi too ??
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 24):
Don't mention Fisheries Ministers and EU when there's a Cornishman around. bloody quotas, bloody Spaniards

What did the Spanish do ? Were they using long lines to catch spawning pasties before they had reached their ancestral breeding grounds ? Tsk tsk.
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cornish
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Thu May 26, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
What did the Spanish do ?

Pinched all our fish - rotten b***ards  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
iakobos
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):

Small, pointless historical fact. Following his escape from Elba, Napoleon landed to rapturous greeting at Golfe Juan, which is 2 km or so from where I live. The landing is re-enacted every year, just to rub it in

Pure modesty likely...JPG failed to mention he plays an important role in the re-enaction.
If my sources are correct, he is lead fife in the glorious ((though virtual) 8th infantry regiment

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iakobos
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 12:21 am


Easier like that..
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 27):
Pure modesty likely...JPG failed to mention he plays an important role in the re-enaction.

Well naturally they asked me to play Napoleon, owing to my charisma, charm, leadership abilities and overwhelming modesty, but I refuse to be associated with that oily little gnome. I suggested they contact Kirkie instead, the physical resemblance is indeed striking.
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cornish
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 29):
Well naturally they asked me to play Napoleon, owing to my charisma, charm, leadership abilities and overwhelming modesty,

Are you sure it wasn't because you're about 4 ft tall  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 30):
Are you sure it wasn't because you're about 4 ft tall

I am beautifully proportioned I'll have you know ! Peeg from 'ell...
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iakobos
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 1:12 am

Sorry, I mixed the picture of "courtes bottes" (short boots) with the one of JGP.
Noone can deny there is no strlking resemblance with the genuine "great" one.
Note the sharp looks, the marvelously proportioned body and the large front lobe characteristic of a genial mind.

 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 1:20 am

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 32):
Noone can deny there is no strlking resemblance with the genuine "great" one.
Note the sharp looks, the marvelously proportioned body and the large front lobe characteristic of a genial mind.

Right - you're off my birthday cake list too ! I officially hate you :P  cry 
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 1:21 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 29):
I suggested they contact Kirkie instead, the physical resemblance is indeed striking.

Dude, Napoleon just robbed the cradle...I don't think he ever robbed the pasture in his life.

Going back on topic, while in practice France's rejection of the EU Constitution would be the exact same as if any other nation rejected it, the theory behind it is quite different. On my recent trip to MSY I brought along this month's edition of "Foreign Affairs." In it, Charles Grant wrote an article entitled "What if the British Vote No?" In the article, Grant speculates that if Britain had voted no, there would be three options: a move to kick Britain out of the EU; that the "hard core" of states led by France and Germany would seek to form a new organization co-existing in the broader EU framework open to those who ratified the EU Constitution; that a "messy core" system would result in which sets of nations would set up several different groups to aid close cooperation in particular policy areas.

Now that it's possible that France may say "No," throw options 1 and 2 out the window. It'd be a little bit difficult to toss France from the EU and, without acceding to the EU Constitution themselves, France is in no place to form a "hard core" with Germany. That leaves the strongest possibility of a "messy" EU system which Grant believes would hinder the EU as it worked to straighten out its various institutions while putting various other problems on the back burner and ignoring future expansion.
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OO-VEG
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 1:22 am

The Netherlands is heading for a "No" as well. Next week is the referendum and the mayority is against the proposed constitution.
 
jcs17
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 2:23 am

Well, it's already being reported that there is no chance at all for French voters to approve the constitution. I think that a "no" vote from France is pretty damning for the EU constitution considering how much France invested in the EU. Really, there were only two other countries, Germany and Belgium, who were more pro-EU than France. There's a good chance that it will be voted down in Holland as well. I think it's a very good thing that French voters are truly beginning to look at what approving the EU constitution would do to their nation--and what the EU has already done to France. The French voters are clearly beginning to realize that a unified European superpower would bring less prosperity to their citizens.

Personally, I think that what will happen is that the Constitution will be scrapped, but the Euro will remain the common currency (another bad idea). The EU won't implode, the free-trade agreements will be kept in place, as well, but you can say 'Sayonara' to an EU constitution.
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Banco
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 36):
but you can say 'Sayonara' to an EU constitution

Hmm. The EU doesn't have much of a record of accepting the will of the people, scrapping any idea they've come up with and starting afresh. No, what normally happens is that Brussels covers its ears and ignores any nasty little details like something being rejected, and carries on regardless. It's worth bearing in mind that they have already moved to implement various parts of this constitution without there being any legal basis whatsoever to do so!

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 29):
Well naturally they asked me to play Napoleon, owing to my charisma, charm, leadership abilities and overwhelming modesty, but I refuse to be associated with that oily little gnome. I suggested they contact Kirkie instead, the physical resemblance is indeed striking.

Hmm, let me see: venereal disease, rampant egomania, delusions of grandeur on a monumental scale, arrogance, haughtiness, short-arse status, greasy hair, impotence, over-active thyroid asnd penchant for dressing up in preposterous clothes. But he was reasonably bright. Nope, sounds a lot more like you than Kirkie, I have to say.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
rootsair
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 5:53 am

Its so unfair some people get to vote by referendum and others not
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oldeuropean
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 5:02 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 7):
Thats what I like to call the War on Terror

You better call it:
VietnamII  cheeky 

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Constitution:What If France Says "No"?

Fri May 27, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 37):
Hmm, let me see: venereal disease, rampant egomania, delusions of grandeur on a monumental scale, arrogance, haughtiness, short-arse status, greasy hair, impotence, over-active thyroid asnd penchant for dressing up in preposterous clothes. But he was reasonably bright. Nope, sounds a lot more like you than Kirkie, I have to say.

That's quite a checklist, mister ! Let's see...

venereal disease - NO !! Euww.
rampant egomania - Heaven forfend !! Moi ?
delusions of grandeur on a monumental scale - It's not delusions if it's true :P
arrogance - Modest little me, no no no.
haughtiness - I speak to you, don't I ? That in itself shows a VERY liberal spirit
short-arse status - HAH ! I am beautifully proportioned.
greasy hair - Nope, washed daily in pure spring water with herbs, besides an Alpine stream. You've seen the ad, that was me.
impotence - Never had any complaints !
over-active thyroid - Over active credit card possibly, but my glands are firmly under control.
penchant for dressing up in preposterous clothes - only on VERY special occasions, or when the feather boa comes back from the dry cleaners.
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