ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:22 am

Louisiana is proposing yet another "sin" tax, which would see the price of cigarettes rise $1/carton for the sake of teachers' pay raises. Many groups are planning to sue if such legislation is passed, which it very well could (heavy precedent).




"Smokers' Rights" is the mantra.... but tell me this, does such a thing exist? In your opinion, if not constitutionally?

If so, what sorta can o' worms could this open up to places like NYC et al where smokers have been (rightfully, I'd say) sidelined in relation to nearly all indoor activities?


.....and before some moron brings it up: yes, smokers choose to buy the carton, light the stick, and puff on it-- but what if it could be proven that some are much more naturally inclinded to nicotine-addiction than others? Then were are we all?



Heavier topic than it may appear superficially.

What say you?
(Please identify whether you smoke or not, in your responses. Thanks)
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
SLC1
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:24 am

It's your right to choose to smoke and when someone eventually becomes addicted has made a choice which should not conflict with my right to breathe clean air in public places. Period.
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
gigneil
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:24 am

I'm fine with taxes on my entertainment to pay for the education of children.

I mean, I don't smoke, and I find it disgusting, but I'd even pay more tax on booze to pay for the education of chirrens.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting SLC1 (Reply 1):
It's your right to choose to smoke and when someone eventually becomes addicted has made a choice which should not conflict with my right to breathe clean air in public places. Period.

Couldn't possibly agree more!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
aloges
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:30 am

I don't smoke.

And I think the only right smokers should be granted is the right to go outside or in a smoking area and smoke - except for bars.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
lowrider
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:37 am

I don't smoke, have no desire to, and have no desire to be around it.

That said, I think it is hypocritical of the government to, on one hand, sponsor various ad campaigns spreading the message of how bad smoking is for you, then to use the addiction those who do not pay attention to create tax revenue. If the tax goes to anything, it should go to defray cost associated with smoking related diseases and treatments to stop smoking. That, at least, would be consistent and ethical.
Proud OOTSK member
 
SLC1
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 8:45 am

As for the tax thing, yeah, it's the price you pay for becoming a slave to a substance. If you have a problem with it, quit. Everybody who is addicted to nicotine CAN quit, I'm sorry. It may be very difficult but all smokers CAN quit if they wanted to enough. The tax pays for necessary services, and I don't mind if a select few foot the bill.
We're gonna do what we like to call a "jetBlue how do you do", which is slang for dumping a bunch of fuel in the ocean
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 9:39 am

Some people have an addictive personality – but I’m not going to directly relate that to smoking.

I have recently returned to the unhealthy and disgusting habit of nicotine ingestion.

I live in Las Vegas, NV where one can virtually smoke and drink at anytime, anywhere unlike the neocon state identified in my username.

I normally buy cartons in Mexico for personal consumption. I saw that recent tax in Louisiana. Now they’re getting Canada-esque. I refuse to purchase cigarettes in Mother Maple Leaf where my parents live, instead bring them across. Same goes for NY and Chicago, just so damn expensive.

People have a right to breathe clean air. Smokers do not have a right to light up wherever their nicotine cravings please.

The same politicos bashing smokers are regularly seen lighting up cigars.

Pardon me while I step outside and consult Peter Jennings.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 9:45 am

Anchorage cigarette taxes are outrageous . . . over $3 a pack and climbing, a pack - single 20 cigarette pack - is not about $7US each.

Now, I quit smoking a while back, and cost was not the factor. . . although I do see a difference.

It is ridiculous to think taxing smokers will solve anything. Just another "Tax" to toss out there, and all the frickin' politicians trying to be PC will say, ohh, sure . . . tax the drinkers and smokers.

 redflag  Guess what time it is . . . bullshit flag time.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MattRB
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 10:04 am

They have the right to kill themselves in the comfort of their own homes as far as I am concerned. When out in public, I should not be made to suffer because of their habit.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 10:28 am

No I don't smoke. Smokers help kill millions of people throu second hand smoke, even help kill their own family members
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goCOgo
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 10:44 am

I don't smoke.

I see no problem with adding additional cig taxes. Why?

1. It is a tax that can be avoided. You don't want to pay? Don't smoke.
2. It will probably cause some to finally stop their death-dealing habit.
3. It can generate money for things such as education.

I used to work at a gas station where cigs were one of the biggest sellers. It was amazing. They barely had the cash to put $2 in their car to get to work, but dropped $3 or more for a pack of smokes. I had a number of kids come in on the day they turned 18 to by cigarettes. Stupid.

And as for smoker's rights? What about nonsmoker's rights? Don't I have a right to breath clean air? Smoker's rights end when they infringe on nonsmoker's rights. Plus, the giant burden on public health. I wonder how much medicare money is spent yearly on cancer & emphysema treatments for smokers?
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
N1120A
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Sun May 29, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Louisiana is proposing yet another "sin" tax, which would see the price of cigarettes rise $1/carton for the sake of teachers' pay raises.

Good thread Freddie. Given the crap wages teachers are paid in Louisiana and the consequent drop in the number and quality of people who will teach in the state, this is a great thing. As is, cigarettes are cheap in Louisiana as compares to other states and a $1 tax per carton will not add much to that

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Many groups are planning to sue if such legislation is passed, which it very well could (heavy precedent).

And guess what, they will lose

Quoting Aloges (Reply 4):
And I think the only right smokers should be granted is the right to go outside or in a smoking area and smoke - except for bars.

It is the same with bars. There are plenty of non-smokers in bars getting poisoned by second hand smoke, both patrons and workers. In fact, spending 8 hours in a smoke filled bar puts the toxins in your body of more than a 20 pack of cigs. California was the first place to completely ban smoking in indoor public accomidation and the affect on workers was one of the main reasons

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 7):
I saw that recent tax in Louisiana. Now they’re getting Canada-esque.

Canada-esque? Because someone may have to spend $3.99 a pack instead of $3.49 (remember, it is $1 per carton, not per pack)? Even if it was $1 a pack, it would still be cheaper than many places in the U.S.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bananaboy
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 5:14 am

I don't smoke and see no problem with taxing the crap out of smokers.. particularly when I live in a country where my tax goes to pay for the healthcare of those chose to smoke. (If we could demonstrate that their healthcare is more than funded by their own purchases, I would be even happier.)


Smokers paying for teachers payrises seems a tenuous link, though not an undeserving one.

I can foresee a time soon when the bars and restaurants of Louisiana will be a more pleasant place to be.

Smokers rights? Geez. I agree with GoCOgo.. this is one easily avoided tax, and you don't need to be a brainiac to work out how to.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
dl021
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:00 am

OK...without reading beyond Cboys first post...so my opinion is not impacted by others.

Non-smoker here saying that people should have the right to smoke all they want.....someplace where their smoking does not infringe upon my right to breathe non-smoke-adulterated air.

As far as sin taxes to pay for more education.....well, hell. I do believe that there is one additional fee I would not really have a problem with paying, since I won't ever pay it.

I'll go a step further......smokers should probably be less eligible for public health (medicaid/medicare) assistance than non-smokers. I don't see why my tax dollar should support the cancer and emphysema treatments for people who insist on poisoning their bodies with a toxin that has been known to cause cancer since 1964 to the extent that there are mandatory labels on the product saying that only an idiot is going to smoke these things regularly.

I would postulate that a cigarette every once in a while, or a cigar or pipe, is not any worse than a number of other habits one could have. But smokers not only smoke way more than can possibly be good for you, but they also seem to think that its ok to toss their butts on the ground and litter. That makes me want to instill some Singaporean solutions to the issue.

My thoughts.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ZRH
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:25 am

The only right of a smoker is not to torture the others with their pollution. I think at least 10 € for a pack would be good, then perhaps most people would at least try to stop. Unfortunately I live in a country where protection of the non smokers almost doesn't exist. I find smoking cigarettes is most disgusting.
 
saintsman
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:27 am

I'm a non smoker.

Targeting a particular product to pay for something else is wrong and prone to problems. If you want to tax something heavily, then fine. But to say that you are only going to spend it on one thing is only going to upset other deserving causes. Why not on healthcare for the needy or some other public service?

If they want to tax cigarettes heavily to bring in extra revenue they will. But the revenue should just be added to the pot and allocated appropriately, not just for one thing.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 7:45 am

I smoke and I have a quote from Rosie di Mannio of the Toronto Star against the "Smoking Stalinists": "I, for one, will not go gently into totalitarianism, will not be cowed by nico-bullies or bamboozled by health charlatans. Smoke more, smoke lots, smoke everywhere."
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 7:46 am

How about this? Let's put higher taxes on cigarettes, and then some of these taxes can come my way, to help pay for the nebulizer machine I just had to buy on Friday. My asthma is getting to the point where an ordinary albuterol puffer just doesn't do the trick in some cases, and on Friday I got into one of those cases. (A nebulizer delivers the albuterol in a mist instead of in an aerosol, and more slowly, making it a much more effective method of delivery.) Luckily my insurance covered the nebulizer for me or else I'd be out some money. How about those who don't have insurance?

How does this relate to smoking? you may ask. 18 years of living with my heavily-smoking dad - in a cold, windows-closed environment - hm, wonder why I have asthma. Where were MY rights?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
jcs17
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 7:56 am

I don't smoke, I don't like being around smokers. There is nothing worse than coming home after a long night out and smelling like an ashtray, but smokers are by far the most discriminated against group of people. Yeah, the losers in government can tax cigarettes all they want, but people are going to keep buying them. It doesn't matter if a pack is $26.79 or $.79. People are going to keep getting lung cancer and we should not have pay their medical bills.

I also believe that a lot of the second hand smoke argument is pure, unadulterated bullshit. It's one thing for ScarletHarlot to say that she was a victim of second-hand smoke because she was around it for 18 years, it's another for the anti-tobacco lobbyists to claim that a person is suffering irreversable damage by being a smoky bar or resturant for a couple of hours.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 19):
it's another for the anti-tobacco lobbyists to claim that a person is suffering irreversable damage by being a smoky bar or resturant for a couple of hours.

I agree with you to some extent, but I really would like to just be able to go out to a bar or out dancing and not have to do a ton of research about whether or not the place allows smoking. I just can't be around smoke any more. It triggers my asthma.

"Irreversable damage"? For most healthy people, being exposed to secondhand smoke for a couple of hours isn't going to make any difference, and it cheapens the argument of people like me to suggest that that is the case.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 8:21 am

If taxing cigarettes will help decrease the amount of second-hand smoke I have to breathe on a day-to-day basis, then I'm all for it. And if it benefits the under paid teachers in this state, and in the process help to improve our schools, so much the better. And if it motivates existing smokers to quit, better still.

I had to put up with our chain-smoking secretary for upwards of 8 years. No amount of complaining to the higher-up's ever did any good. No visitor/vendor/friend that I or my office colleagues had visit us failed to notice the second-hand smoke, and very few failed to comment to us on it. Only recently have I had a change in my job duties that has necessitated a move (thank God) into our main airport terminal and a much cleaner environment.

I'm with ScarlotHarlot, where were my rights for 8 years?

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
ZRH
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Tue May 31, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 19):
I also believe that a lot of the second hand smoke argument is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

This is completely wrong. It is proven in different scientific studies that second hand smoking is almost as dangerous as smoking!

http://www.cancer.ca/ccs/internet/st...3182,3172_13127__langId-en,00.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/secondhandsmoke.html

If I injured someone with a gun I would go to jail. But injuring other people with smoke is allowed. I don't mind if somebody wants to kill himself with smoking but stay away from me.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:20 pm

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 11):
see no problem with adding additional cig taxes. Why?

1. It is a tax that can be avoided. You don't want to pay? Don't smoke.
2. It will probably cause some to finally stop their death-dealing habit.
3. It can generate money for things such as education.

I do smoke. I have tried to quit several times and I find it interesting when life-long non-smokers tell me how simple it is to quit or how, as SLC1 states, "anyone can do it". As a point of reference, nicotine addiction has been likened to heroin addiction - its that bad. Its damn tough and I commend anyone who has successfully quit. If you've never done it, don't purport to know how "easy" it is or how "anyone can do it" - You don't know what you're talking about.

Now, on to the subject of having no problems with additional taxes. The goal of the American Lung Association (and politicos with these sin tax increases) is to eliminate smoking altogether. A dubious goal but that is the overall goal nonetheless. Now, consider what will happen if that goal is reached or even close to being achieved - YOUR TAXES WILL SKYROCKET TO SUPPORT THE REVENUE LOSS! Think about that when you state you have absolutely no problem to these added taxes. Sooner or later, you'll be footing that tax burden you had no problem with. Bet then, you'll have a problem with it.

MxCtrlr  bouncy 
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
September11
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:16 pm

"My doctor told me I need more tar" LOL
Steve Martin

[Edited 2005-06-01 15:21:10]
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mrniji
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:22 pm

Quoting BananaBoY (Reply 13):
don't smoke and see no problem with taxing the crap out of smokers.. particularly when I live in a country where my tax goes to pay for the healthcare of those chose to smoke.

Then let's levy taxes on Junk Food, too.. I could argue that I am tired that my taxes are spend for the heathcare of people who permanently eat all that trash
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
dvk
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:27 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
chirrens

Neil, you're revealing your inner southern boy! I love it!
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
ly7e7
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:50 pm

I used to smoke a lot, but now I smoke an occasional cigarette when I am in a pub.

IMHO there is no such thing as "smokers rights". You want to poison yourself? Do it in such way that nobody else is disturbed. Unfortunately in my country the taxes on cigarettes are very low (the consumer cost is less than $5 a pack of 20). And I anticipate a law that will prohibit smoking in bars - then I'll quit finally  Smile
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:24 pm

I smoke about a pack and a half a day. My dad worked for a tobacco company for over forty years, so it was around the house my whole life. Dad quit sometime in his 40's, and Mom quit in her 50's. My sister quit about five or six years ago, making her around forty at the time, and my brother quit a couple of years ago, also around the forty mark. So far, I still haven't wised up.... scratchchin 

Having said all of that, I do not think smokers have ANY rights. Sure, smoke in your home, and outside if it doesn't bother anyone. I always ask before I light up if it will bother anybody. This is 2005, we know it's bad for you, and second-hand smoke is also bad for someone exposed to it over a period of time. They cost a damn fortune here in the states, and I live in tobacco country.

In the replies above, I believe everything has been already stated that I would agree with... your clothes stink, your breath stinks, they cause litter, your wallet is lighter, your lungs are black, your second-hand smoke bothers people and makes them sick, etc., etc., etc.

Tax the hell out of them!! Maybe I'll quit then.

Chip
 
Pope
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:41 pm

I don't smoke (other than 1 or 2 cigars a year on very special occassions).

I'm a firm believer in the free market. I hate these regulations that force private businesses (bars, restaurants) to ban smoking. I think that the market should resolve this issue.

As a non-smoker I won't frequent a restaurant that allowed smoking. But this is my personal choice. I fully respect a smoker's right to enjoy a meal and a smoke if he so desires. The non-smokers can vote with their wallets and go elsewhere. The business owner then decides, does he want the smoker's business or the non-smoker's business.

I think that in open air spaces (i.e. stadiums, someone should set up a smoking section). Yes, there will always be the problem about what to do at the border between the sections, but once again the market provides a solution - sell these border seats at a discount and the smoking seats at a premium. You vote with your pocket book and government stays out of it.

The one place that I think that public policy dictates that smoking should be banned by the government is public parks because of the presence of children.

That being said, I think that for a free-market to function, the cost of a pack of smokes should fully reflect the societal costs that the habit creates. If it doesn't non-smokers are effectively subsidizing the smoker's habits through the portion of their taxes that go to pay for health care costs of smokers. If you choose to smoke, I support your right to do so, but please don't turn your right into my expense.

At the end of the day, the dirty little secret is that while nobody will argue that smoking is good for you, the state and local governments are in fact addicted to the tax revenue that the sin taxes generate. That's why I can't ever see there being a complete FDA ban on smoking.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:52 pm

i used to smoke. actually i used to smoke A LOT (2 packs of marlboro red a day!) between the ages of 15 to 21. i had to quit when i was 21 because i started to fly. i remember i was doing the sin/hkg/sfo flight at that time. the sin/hkg flight was tolerable, but the hkg/sfo leg was unbearable. i knew that i had to quit, and i did. so yes people can quit. i'm so glad that i did. fags are so bloody expensive nowadays and i also think it's so sad to see smokers standing around outside of a bar/restaurant smoking... especially when the weather is foul.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:12 am

I hate cigarettes/smokers/smoking but at the same time I can see the smoking bans/cigarette taxes as tools that could be used against other things that the majority doesn't "like"...which could be dangerous.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Banco
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:15 am

The trouble with the usual arguments about smokers costing a fortune in healthcare is that it isn't true. In most countries (I can't speak for the US, because I just don't know), the revenue from tobacco taxation dwarfs any health expenditure on smoking related diseases. On top of that, smokers die younger, therefore reducing pension costs and other associated illnesses connected with the elderly. From a purely financial perspective, encouraging people to smoke is the correct course of action.

I do tend to agree with Pope that banning smoking isn't something for government to get involved in. If people have been crying out for non-smoking bars, why has it never been the case that proprietors ban smoking in them? You really would have expected smoking-free bars and pubs to have caught on by now. It should be for the market to decide, but the reality is that the numbers of smokers in regular pubgoers is substantially higher than in society as a whole. Restaurants have progressively banned smoking over the years, and it would seem reasonable to assume that this pattern would continue.

Now, on second-hand smoking, this is one of these things that fits the received wisdom school of science. The actual evidence for it is pretty scant, and the WHO even suppressed a report that could find no link for it. Still, being in a smoky environment is going to be, at best, pretty unpleasant for a non-smoker. What is interesting though, is how double-standards are applied on this subject. "I have the right to clean air" goes the cry, but I'll continue to drive my enormous 4x4 that pollutes the atmosphere. People have a tendency to be remarkably self-righteous on issues that they don't have a vested interest in.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:25 am

"On top of that, smokers die younger, therefore reducing pension costs and other associated illnesses connected with the elderly."

Very true, and many of the risks of smoking, especially second hand smoke, have been dramatically overblown in the deafening group-think that drowns out any study that questions the majority opinion--in much the same way that obesity is being overblown now.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
4holer
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:37 am

Nonsmoker.
As far as I'm concerned...
Your "rights" as a smoker end as soon as your smoking negatively impacts me. That impact can be financial, in my lungs, or making me stink of smoke. And whether second hand smoke has immediate health risks or not is up to you to prove in the negative, not the other way around.
Besides, it is like me walking up to you in a bar and peeing on your leg; it's rude, annoying, it makes your clothes smell bad, and may or may not have health consequences, you just don't know for sure. And, of course, it is a pretty stupid thing to do in my opinion.
So if you smoke in your car or home, and stay out of the hospital to die on your own so that you do not cost my insurance company anything when you get your lung cancer, go ahead, knock yourself out and smoke as much as you want!
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:54 am

"Sooner or later, you'll be footing that tax burden you had no problem with. Bet then, you'll have a problem with it.
"

Also very true; it's not like all those taxes are going into a savings account for a rainy day since we all know that for every penny Americans make (in taxes or wages) more than a penny is spent.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Superfly
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:14 am

TAX 'EM!


Nuff said!
Bring back the Concorde
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:59 pm

Smokers have the right to die a slow painful death from emphyzema if they so choose, that's about it. If you want to smoke, go right ahead - just don't do it any place anyone else is likely to be though - and that includes your own kids.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:10 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 37):
and that includes your own kids.

Absolutely.... see my post above, I'm one of those nasty smokers, and so is my wife. But we never smoke in the house, we're either outside, or in the garage.

Chip
 
Andreas
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RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:18 pm

Quoting 4holer (Reply 34):
it is like me walking up to you in a bar and peeing on your leg; it's rude, annoying, it makes your clothes smell bad, and may or may not have health consequences, you just don't know for sure.

You do that to me and it WILL have health consequences...very grave ones, on your side, and IMMEDIATELY, I can promise you that  Wink Big grin Big grin Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:30 pm

Frankly I think smoking should be illegal in any public place (indoor or outdoor). Really, it should be confined to private premises (or perhaps a licensed 'smoking venue'). If you want to smoke, good for you, but any right you have to do this is outweighed by the natural right of everyone to clean air free from harmful substances. It's a lot like sex, really - I'm not saying people should or shouldn't be doing it, just that they shouldn't be doing it in a restaurant, a stadium, an office, or walking down the street. What you do in your own home is up to you, just so long as it doesn't impact on other people...

Oh, and for the record, I am a non-smoker - I used to smoke the odd cigar, but I have given even that up because I can't afford to take risks with my health. My medical certificate is a lot more important to me than a stick of dried leaves.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:56 pm

I'll smoke a fag maybe at most, thrice a year. Only when I'm extremely stress.

Other than that... I find smoking a cigarette in public just as annoying as cell phones.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
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PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:37 pm

Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 23):
I do smoke. I have tried to quit several times and I find it interesting when life-long non-smokers tell me how simple it is to quit or how, as SLC1 states, "anyone can do it". As a point of reference, nicotine addiction has been likened to heroin addiction - its that bad. Its damn tough and I commend anyone who has successfully quit. If you've never done it, don't purport to know how "easy" it is or how "anyone can do it" - You don't know what you're talking about.

You can quit. You just need to see it through. I smoked for almost 10 years. Gave it up overnight. For the first couple of weeks, I would bum just a puff off a friends cigarette. Within 2 months, I had lost any further desire to smoke. Now, I'm far more sensitive to smokers around me than I ever was before I started smoking. I think California has the right idea. The tax revenue from cigarette sales goes towards anti-smoking campaigns, and subsidizing health care costs. Although I think funding Louisana teachers is a good cause in general, I like the idea of keeping the tax revenues linked more directly to the issue.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 25):
Then let's levy taxes on Junk Food, too.. I could argue that I am tired that my taxes are spend for the heathcare of people who permanently eat all that trash

Actually, a very good idea since obesity is the next huge health crisis. Tax the hell out of all junk food. While we're at it, tax the hell out of gas guzzling SUV's as well. For those who claim they need the space - there are still pick-up trucks and station wagons that consume far less fuel. Car manufactures such as Cadillac and Lexus (and Porsche for that matter) have no business making these beasts. What is the real likelyhood of any Escalade owner taking their SUV "off road"? Sport Utility Vehicles? My a$$!!! They're nothing but vanity status symbols to show off wealth.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 42):
Actually, a very good idea since obesity is the next huge health crisis. Tax the hell out of all junk food. While we're at it, tax the hell out of gas guzzling SUV's as well. For those who claim they need the space - there are still pick-up trucks and station wagons that consume far less fuel. Car manufactures such as Cadillac and Lexus (and Porsche for that matter) have no business making these beasts. What is the real likelyhood of any Escalade owner taking their SUV "off road"? Sport Utility Vehicles? My a$$!!! They're nothing but vanity status symbols to show off wealth.

I've stated many times before, give the SUV drivers the attention they have been craving. Make them pay the same registrations and tolls that commercial vehicle owners already pay .
Also I doubt most Escalade and Hummer owners are all that "wealthy".
Many of them are swimming in debt and are leasing those as there everyday driver which will exceed there mileage allowance of there lease.
Without looking at any numbers, I am sure the Escalade and H2 has to be two of the highest repossessed vehicles. The maturity of the average buyer is very low.
As far as fast food goes, the "crisis" turns out to be a bunch of hype. There is nothing wrong with burgers, French fries, ....whooops..Freedom fries, pizza and tacos. People need to exercise more and WORK LESS!
I repeat, WORK LESS!


Whoooops, I did it again! Embarrassment
That goes against the grains of our governments ideals and making us a giant ant farm.
Uncle Sam says work your ass off and buy a Hummer!
There are plenty of under-educated kids that will go off to the military to fight wars to keep the oil flowing.

[Edited 2005-06-02 17:06:49]
Bring back the Concorde
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
Uncle Sam says work your ass off and buy a Hummer!

Hee hee! Beautiful!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
4holer
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting Andreas (Reply 39):
You do that to me and it WILL have health consequences...very grave ones, on your side, and IMMEDIATELY, I can promise you that

True perhaps! But if I last longer than 30 seconds or so, I'll take advantage of your coughing and wheezing fit to turn things around!  Wink
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
KLMA330
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:46 am

I genuinely feel sorry for smokers, just like I feel for any addict, to anything. Do what you will to your health and your wallet, just keep it away from people who actually enjoy breathing air, polluted as it may be, without an extra 2000+ chemicals coming from smoking.. not to mention the smell!! and the dust.. just disgusting!
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Smokers' Rights?

Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 40):
If you want to smoke, good for you, but any right you have to do this is outweighed by the natural right of everyone to clean air free from harmful substances.

So, you are saying that since it is harmful to clean air, then it should be banned? Careful with that arguement as emissions from aircraft, rockets launching satillites into space (so you can talk on your cell phone, etc) and the very car you drive all contribute vastly more to damaging "clean air" than second-hand smoke does. Based on your criteria for smokers, then we should also ban automobiles, busses, trains, aircraft, and any other form of transportation that damages clean air - because their benefits are outweighed by the damage they create to clean air.

Careful what arguements you use. If you don't like the smell of cigarette smoke, that's fine with me (I don't particularly like it either which is one of the reasons why I smoke outside of my house only) but don't try to tell me how much I'm polluting the atmosphere. Have you looked at how "clean" the air that's hanging over your local airport is lately?

That's the problem with an arguement like this. People tend to get melodramatic (ScarletHarlot aside - that's a medical condition and quite understandable) and over-dramatize the problem. Stick with the facts and leave the bullshit aside.

MxCtrlr  bouncy 
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(

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