n506cr
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American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 12:53 am

Ok, first of all, I want to say this is by no way a "US bashing thread" as some people use to call them as soon as they see "USA" in the thread.

Well, I went over to my Mexican friend's house and by pure casualty I spotted his passport. I asked him if I could see it, and right away I noticed something: (this is not his, btw)


It says: Estados Unidos Mexicanos (Mexican United States)
I asked him about that and he said, "yeah that's the official country's name".
We were talking about that and he said "that's why us Mexicans don't like when, mostly in official terms, USA is referred as "The United States" or "The government of The United States". United States from where? We are United States too!

Following the conversation, we got into the "American" topic. Wherever you hear "American" you automatically link it as a person from USA. Well it's like it'll never change, and also, there's no such term in a word in english as "United-staten?" slt... whereas in Spanish there is, "Estadounidense". So OK, nothing will change it and there's no word to replace, that's justifiable. But for all fellow Americans around here, if you didn't know, in any country in the American continent you step in, we don't like you calling yourselves "American". Why? well, we are Americans too. I remember once in 6th grade a teacher of mine from California got in argument with the whole english class, she said "America is not a single continent! North and South is a different thing". Not really, America is a whole unique single comprehended continent. The thing is, any country in this continent is in America, and just like any person in Europe is European, any person in America is... American. Plus, Amerigo Vespucci (explorer Italian guy whose name was taken to name the "new world" continent) didn't even went to what today is USA, so it's not like he got there first or anything like that. So, any person in the continent feels somehow discriminated by not being able to call itself American, being one. Do you think all the natives in the USA west coast (and around there...) are called "Native Americans" because they were where "America" (USA) is now. Nope, they are native americans because they lived in America way long ago.
--
So, as Mexico said, well we're Mexico, we're a bunch of states together, we'll be "(The) Mexican United States", USA said, ok, we're a whole bunch of states, we fought to be together, and it happens we're in the American continent, so we are "(The) United States of America", therefore I think, mostly in official deals, they should ALWAYS specify that.

Ok, and American is like a worldwide accepted term, but is not like you own the whole place NOR that I'm not one. With that same Mexican friend I remember we were playing a soccer game and I said something in spanish to him, and the referee called me "hey... 7... kid, listen, this is America, speak english please"--huh? guess what Mr. Ref, this is not quite "America", this is the United States of America, where I come from it's also America and we speak Spanish there (not that I answered that to him but really, that's my insight). I don't know if this example is quite right but a country that comes to my mind is Suriname. Where are you from? What's your nationality? I dunno how to say but does "Suriname-se?" exists? or some other term? well if not the person has to say "I'm from Suriname". So technically, a person from the USA, would be getting it completely right saying "(I'm from) United States (of America)" at least, since we get US=A, just like people from the Mexican United States cut it short to "Mexican"

So again, this is not a "USA this and that" thread, just a very own and I think well based opinion, that I'd like to share for open discussion, just that.

Regards;
_A
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:01 am

So, basically, your entire thread opener is asking, Why is it folks in the USA are referred to as "Americans"?

My simple explanation is that it's the only country on this continent with the word "America" in it. Pretty simple. A clearly, easily defined identifier.

Mexican United States . . . called Mexico because it prevents confusion with the USofA.

Canada . . . called Canada, well - duhhh.

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
any country in this continent is in America,

Any country on this continent is in NORTH America and CENTRAL America.
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Falcon84
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:02 am

Well, maybe you don't want it turn into a flamefest, but it will.

The preamble of our Constitution says "We, the people of the United States of America...."

So, we are the United States of America, period. End of conversation. If Mexico has their offical name as "United States of Mexico", then what's wrong with calling them "Mexicans" and us "Americans". "America" is a OFFICAL part of our name, so what's the problem. We DO, in a sense, "own" the name. I don't see any other nation in the Americas who have the name "America" offically in their name.

So, again, why is it even an issue?

[Edited 2005-05-30 18:07:21]
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jetjack74
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:05 am

That's frightening picture of him  eek 
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adam
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:11 am

If we weren't called American's, what would you call us? "United States Citizens?" The word "America" is in the name of our country, and just so happens to be our continents name.

I believe it's the United Mexican States if that makes any difference.

adam
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cwapilot
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:14 am

According to the alignment of the stars and planets, this is a very early re-occurrence of this topic. Maybe it was a solar flare or the weakening magnetic fields...
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JGPH1A
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 5):
Maybe it was a solar flare or the weakening magnetic fields...

It was caused by the French "non" vote  Smile - another in the series of disastrous consequences predicted by Nostradamus...

Quattrain LXXIV v. 3

On Gemin's cusp shall cry forth "Non"
and France Europa's iron rule shall shatter
Wax wroth shall the Weasel of Albion
and Anoraks their tedious threads bescatter
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102IAHexpress
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:38 am

"America is a whole unique single comprehended continent."




I wouldn't disagree with that.
 
aviationmaster
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:03 am

Hehe, I think there was a similar topic a while ago... and yes, it ended in a flamefest, so good luck...:D

"Plus, Amerigo Vespucci (explorer Italian guy whose name was taken to name the "new world" continent) didn't even went to what today is USA"

He didn't go to Mexico either, so what's your point?

"I come from it's also America "

No, you are from Central America.

"I don't know if this example is quite right but a country that comes to my mind is Suriname. Where are you from? What's your nationality? I dunno how to say but does "Suriname-se?" exists? or some other term? well if not the person has to say "I'm from Suriname". So technically, a person from the USA, would be getting it completely right saying "(I'm from) United States (of America)" at least, since we get US=A, just like people from the Mexican United States cut it short to "Mexican"

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but anyways... IMO it all comes down to how you ask the question:
-by asking "Where are you from?"; you will most likely get the answer "I'm from the United States".
-if you ask "Whats your nationality?"; then most people will say "I'm american."


Plus, what country was here first, the US of A or Mexico?  Wink

Saludos,
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n506cr
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Why is it folks in the USA are referred to as "Americans"?

no ANC, is not really that. What I mean is that, technically, anyone in this continent is an American.

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
The thing is, any country in this continent is in America, and just like any person in Europe is European, any person in America is... American.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
My simple explanation is that it's the only country on this continent with the word "America" in it. Pretty simple. A clearly, easily defined identifier.

Definitely. As I said, nothing will change it, and the lack of a specific word supports that fact. My point is, it's ok to use it as your nationality identifier, it's worldwide known like that and nothing will change it, but, at least, understand and acknowledge that, again, any person in this continent is an american.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Any country on this continent is in NORTH America and CENTRAL America.

I was taught 5 continents in school: America, Asia, Oceania, Europe and Africa.

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
America is a whole unique single comprehended continent

--

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
Well, maybe you don't want it turn into a flamefest, but it will.

Well I hoped it wouldn't go so bad. And I posted this because I wanted to hear other people's opinion...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
So, again, why is it even an issue?

Because this is a non-aviation forum and the rules say: Do not post in here unless you are capable of expressing yourself in a civilized manner. As far as I know, this thread has nothing to do with aviation and I am posting in here in a civilized manner.

***

Quoting Adam (Reply 4):
If we weren't called American's, what would you call us? "United States Citizens?" The word "America" is in the name of our country, and just so happens to be our continents name.



Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
Wherever you hear "American" you automatically link it as a person from USA. Well it's like it'll never change, and also, there's no such term in a word in english as "United-staten?" slt... whereas in Spanish there is, "Estadounidense". So OK, nothing will change it and there's no word to replace it, that's justifiable.



Quoting Adam (Reply 4):
I believe it's the United Mexican States if that makes any difference.

Yup, thx. You're right on that one.

*** AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A BASHING THREAD, JUST MY OPINION. PLEASE READ MY WHOLE POST BEFORE REPLYING, MOST OF THE THINGS YOU GUYS ARE POINTING OUT ARE ALREADY THERE ***

Thx for your insights;
_A
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
no ANC, is not really that. What I mean is that, technically, anyone in this continent is an American.

. . . is a NORTH American or CENTRAL American . . . lest they be confused with those from SOUTH American . . .

Symantics, really . . .

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 8):
Hehe, I think there was a similar topic a while ago... and yes, it ended in a flamefest, so good luck

 yes 

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
Well, maybe you don't want it turn into a flamefest, but it will.

Well I hoped it wouldn't go so bad. And I posted this because I wanted to hear other people's opinion...

Surprised we've gotten to 10 replies and it's still civil . . . congrats A-Netters.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
I was taught 5 continents in school: America, Asia, Oceania, Europe and Africa.

And therein lies the rub - it in part, if I remember the last thread correctly, dealt with the fact that different people are taught different models for the # of continents. I, for instance, was taught 7. North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica.

But yes, IMO, it boils down to two things...in English "American," is a lot easier to say than "United Statesian" and second, we are the only nation in the Americas to actually have the word "America" in our official country name.
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102IAHexpress
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:26 am

I was taught there was a distinction in the continent of North America, and the continent of South America, but as I have gotten older I have changed my perspective. The concept of Oceania is something I was never taught in school either. I was taught that Australia was a lone continent and country. But where does that leave New Zealand?

It will be a while before the concept of the continent of Oceania is widely taught in U.S. schools, and I would imagine it would take even longer for the concept of one American continent to be taught as well.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:35 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 12):
and I would imagine it would take even longer for the concept of one American continent to be taught as well.

Interestingly, I have never completely understood why there is a definite distinction between Asia and Europe. While North/Central America are connected to South America via a small isthmus (Panama) and thus there is a conceivable and visual separation between North/Central and South America the Euro-Asian continent is essentially one large land mass, is it not?

As for Oceania and the number of continents . . . always taught 7 Continents, and as you say, was taught Australia is stand alone, and New Zealand and the other Pacific Islands were just - islands. And I'm not sure where Greenland and Iceland fit into the scheme of things . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
dl021
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:36 am

HEY! Who dares call anyone besides a US citizen an AMerican?!?!

We will have you hunted down and dealt with!  Wink

Seriously, though, in my experience many people south of the Canal, and even south of the US border call all Canadian and US people Norte Americanos (or gringos  Wink) even though technically everything North of the Isthmus of Panama at a certain latitude is really North America.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
no ANC, is not really that. What I mean is that, technically, anyone in this continent is an American.

. . . is a NORTH American or CENTRAL American . . . lest they be confused with those from SOUTH American . . .

Central America is a semi-xenophobic means that cartographers and culturalists had of keeping the 3rd world element of the North American appellation separate from the people south of the US border. It has become accepted without much thought, but I think that it is one of the things that we allow to separate us as people with our neighbors to the south and in the Caribbean, which is also technically part of North America to a certain latitude.

I think that the official names of countries can be interesting, and the United States of Mexico is a great name....just as The Oriental Republic of Uruguay is a spectacular full name. But, whats in a name? A rose by any other name is just as sweet.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
n506cr
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 8):
"I come from it's also America "

No, you are from Central America.

Yes, I am from Central America, a geographical division of a whole unique single comprehended continent, America. It's just like we refer to Eastern or Western Europe, the point is that all of them are Europeans. Also, in that case, people from USA is from North America, not America.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 8):
"Plus, Amerigo Vespucci (explorer Italian guy whose name was taken to name the "new world" continent) didn't even went to what today is USA"

He didn't go to Mexico either, so what's your point?



Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
So, any person in the continent feels somehow discriminated by not being able to call itself American, being one.



Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 8):
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but anyways... IMO it all comes down to how you ask the question:
-by asking "Where are you from?"; you will most likely get the answer "I'm from the United States".
-if you ask "Whats your nationality?"; then most people will say "I'm american."

What I mean is that there must be some countries that lack of a specific word for nationality, leaving the same answer to both question, just like it happens in the english language for the United States of America, using therefore the word "American", however, I'm not sure if the Suriname example I used is right.
--

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 11):
But yes, IMO, it boils down to two things...in English "American," is a lot easier to say than "United Statesian" and second, we are the only nation in the Americas to actually have the word "America" in our official country name.

Thank God someone got my point! welcome to my respected's list GP.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Surprised we've gotten to 10 replies and it's still civil . . . congrats A-Netters.

We made it!!! woo hoo!!! lol

Keep'em coming,
_A
 
aviationmaster
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:17 am

"Yes, I am from Central America, a geographical division of a whole unique single comprehended continent, America. It's just like we refer to Eastern or Western Europe, the point is that all of them are Europeans. Also, in that case, people from USA is from North America, not America."

Just a question, aren't the USA refered to in Spanish as "Los Estados Unidos de Norte America"? :S

"What I mean is that there must be some countries that lack of a specific word for nationality, leaving the same answer to both question, just like it happens in the english language for the United States of America, using therefore the word "American", however, I'm not sure if the Suriname example I used is right."

Aha! Now I see what you mean!  Smile Don't know about the Suriname example, but there might be a couple of African nations which might have this "problem".


What's kinda confusing is that like others here, I was thaught that America is devided into two continents North America and South America, BUT I've also had a geography teacher saying it's all one continent (which makes more sense IMO) Big grin.
 
SATL382G
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
Mr. Ref, this is not quite "America", this is the United States of America, where I come from it's also America and we speak Spanish there (not that I answered that to him but really, that's my insight)

If you're so hung up on names why is it important that you speak Spanish? Shouldn't Mexicans speak Mexican. After all, Mexico was conquered by the Spaniards so I should think the mexican descendants would want to throw off that language. No?  Smile
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
What I mean is that there must be some countries that lack of a specific word for nationality, leaving the same answer to both question, just like it happens in the english language for the United States of America, using therefore the word "American", however, I'm not sure if the Suriname example I used is right.

Maybe Congo and the Democratic Republic of the Congo (the former Zaire) would be a good example. Prior to the fall of Mobutu Sese-Seko's government, residents of Congo were Congolese and residents of Zaire were Zairian. Following the overthrow, residents of both nations are now termed "Congolese," despite the fact that many residents of the former Zaire don't belong to the Kongo ethnic group.
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ltbewr
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 4:31 am

What is generally refered to as Mexico is composed of over 24 'states' and a Federal District (Districa Federale/D.F.) with Mexico City, the Capital. Some of these states include: Baja Califronia, Baja Califronia Sur (South), Chihiuahua, Nuevo Leon, Yuctan, Sonora, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Tabasco, Chiapas, Pubela, Durango and others. (look a map). As in the USA, vehicle registration and registration/license plates is under the states and they have other local regularory authority from the Federal government. Yet Australia has 'states' yet it isn't called the United States of Australia, nor Canada which has provinces and like US or Mexican States allow for some local authority like vehicle registration and license/registration plates.
By the way, the name America came from an Italian map maker - Amerigo (sp) Vespucci back in the 1500's.
 
L.1011
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
I was taught 5 continents in school: America, Asia, Oceania, Europe and Africa.

You were taught wrong. We were all taught wrong.

If we base it solely on the tectonic plates (and ignore non-continental islands)

Here are your continents:

Eurasia
North America
Caribbean
South America
Antarctica
Australia
Africa
Arabia
India

Those are the tectonic plates with any significant amount of land on them. It's reasonably logical to tack Arabia and India onto Eurasia because of their relative smallness and proximity. The Caribbean could also be tacked onto North America with the same principle.

That leaves us with

Eurasia
North America
South America
Antarctica
Australia
Africa

Now, from this list of what the actual major continental landmasses are, as defined by plate tectonics, you could probably argue very well that the Europe-Asia distinction is arbitrary and traces its routes to racism. Certainly, using the very unremarkable Ural Mountains and Ural River as a dividing line, then fudging the line through the Caucasus and randomly chopping through the tiny Bosphorus and somehow claiming you have a geographically and geologically logical continent is preposterous. Although we still count Europe as a continent today, it is in reality a clear cultural and socioeconomic distinction, and can be very well defended on those grounds.

However, the North America-South America distinction is very well rooted in geologic and geographic fact. If you want to draw continents based on culture and socioeconomics, then the line should go halfway through California, across the northern border of Arizona and New Mexico, dip south in Texas, cross the Gulf of Mexico, scallop off Southeast Florida, then chop the Antilles off before circling in all of South and Central America. However, that divide is as clear as Europe-Asia, and I don't hear anyone questioning that. If anything, we should have European America and Latin America.
 
OzLAME
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
I was taught 5 continents in school: America, Asia, Oceania, Europe and Africa.



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
Yet Australia has 'states' yet it isn't called the United States of Australia

Oceania is an area of the Pacific Ocean; the largest land mass in Oceania is Australia, which is also known as the Island Continent.

It is called The Commonwealth of Australia. Australia is a 105-year-old Federation of disparate former British colonies and until fairly recently didn't even have a standard railway gauge; an interstate train trip would involve changing trains at the state border.
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:05 am

So, this is the deal:

The United States of Mexico (which I personally don't like) has been the official name of the country for quite a long time. Some really really really ignorant people think that we are such US lovers that we actually said: oh, let's look cool and steal the name as well. Mexico is composed by 31 states and the Federal District which is actually a capital. Each state has their own government with their own jurisdiction, but all of them respond to a federal government. Pretty much like in the US, that's why the similarity.

Mexican States: Aguascalientes, Baja California, Baja California Sur, Campeche,Chihuahua, Coahuila, Chiapas, Colima, Durango, D.F., Estado de México, Guanajuato,Guerrero, Hidalgo,Michoacan, Morelos, Nuevo Leon, Nayarit, Oaxaca, Puebla,Querétaro, Quintana Roo, Sonora, Sinaloa, Tamaulipas, Tabasco, Tlaxcala,Yucatán, Veracruz and Zacatecas.

Now, regarding AMERICA:

For me America goes from Canada (including Alaska of course) to Chile:

North America : Canada, US, Mexico

Central America: Belize and Guatemala down all the way to Panama.

South America: All countries down from Panama.

So it's the American Continent which name comes from Americo Vespucio (which was the first cartographer that made a map of the continent) and for some particular reason the continent was named after him.

So when Christopher Columbus discovered the American Continent I really don't think he discovered the States. So then comes the 13 states that later became THE UNITED STATES. But United States from where? Well... United States of America. Such as Mexico is The United States of Mexico. But for everyone: Mexico.

What bothers me is that the US refers to themselves as America, which in this case they should us the US such as the rest of the world. The difference with Mexico, is that we don't have a continent that's named after our country. So I think that the most appropiate term is the States, the US, The United States which OFFICIALLY are the United States of America. But anyway, that's just a thought.
But hey, this is not about which country deserves being AMERICA, it would be enough for me that most people that talk about the US as America, UNDERSTAND that America is not only them but all of us living in...well... America?

AS RootsAir said: ok so this guy told us speak English because you are in America. It would actually be BETTER for him to say: speak English because you're in the States.

That's my point, I'm not against the US being the US of America

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
Ok, and American is like a worldwide accepted term, but is not like you own the whole place NOR that I'm not one.

Yes, actually you're ok there. But unless they are referring to people, they say: They come from the States. Not from America...

Quoting N506CR (Thread starter):
So technically, a person from the USA, would be getting it completely right saying "(I'm from) United States (of America)" at least, since we get US=A,

That would be wonderful.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 17):
If you're so hung up on names why is it important that you speak Spanish? Shouldn't Mexicans speak Mexican. After all, Mexico was conquered by the Spaniards so I should think the Mexican descendants would want to throw off that language. No?

Yeah well, why don't you speak a United languages as well? You were an English colony right? If you got independent then wouldn't you wanna throw off that language?

Alonso

(MUY MOTIVADO)

[Edited 2005-05-31 04:10:45]
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SFOMEX
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:16 am

I don't see the issue here. Sure, I know that every single inhabitant of this continent is an American; yet, all of them are also a citizen of one of the many countries that belong to this continent and that comes ahead of the continent.

If people from the USA are known as Americans is just fine. After all, it's part of their countries name. The United Mexican States may be the official country's name, but all their residents are known as Mexicans, which is also just fine. Once again, I don't see the issue here.
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:26 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 23):
Once again, I don't see the issue here.

Nothing to do really...
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PPVRA
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:31 am

I don't mind hearing people say "Hey, I'm American" or "American whatever"... I just think to myself "So am I, except South American"

What I find odd is when people say "Welcome to America" .. I think to myself "WTF, when did I leave???." Not in an offensive way, I hope you guys understand that, it's just strange I guess.

And yes, me too, I learned the whole thing as being one continent.

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
EMBQA
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:34 am

I think you need to pay attention in History class a little more. Prior to the mid 1700's in what is now the United States of America each then state was self independent and governed itself. When the King of England decided to ad a tax, these STATES UNITED to fight the tax, we formed a constitution...and the United States of America.


Estados Unidos Mexicanos (Mexican United States)

To take here what is said here is just that the 'States' of 'Mexico' are 'United'

http://www.fotw.net/flags/mx(.html#map

[Edited 2005-05-31 04:38:15]
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Falcon84
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
no ANC, is not really that. What I mean is that, technically, anyone in this continent is an American.

Yes, but the United States has, as part of it's official name "America". Hence, that's why we're called Americans.

Come on folks, this isn't rocket science here.

Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
and the lack of a specific word supports that fact.

Actually-AGAIN-what supports it is the fact that America is pfficially part of our name.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 22):
What bothers me is that the US refers to themselves as America

That's because-once again-do we have to repeate this?-it is part of our OFFICIAL NAME, and no other nation in "the America's" uses it, so again, what IS the problem with that? (ready to give up).

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 22):
The difference with Mexico, is that we don't have a continent that's named after our country.

No, the difference is Mexico doesn't use the name "America", where as the United States of America does.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 22):
That's my point, I'm not against the US being the US of America

That's good, because you know, if you haven't figured it out, that is our OFFICAL name? What part of that do you folks NOT get? It's mind-boggling.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 23):
don't see the issue here.

Damn, SFOMEX, we agree for once. Thank you! (breaths a sigh of relief)
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 27):
That's because-once again-do we have to repeate this?-it is part of our OFFICIAL NAME, and no other nation in "the America's" uses it, so again, what IS the problem with that? (ready to give up).

Yeah I know that what's my point here is that is somewhat annoying to something like this examples:

Welcome to America!

Yes, you are in America!

America? what? The States?


You being Americans or having the United States of America has no deal as you said. It's your official name, yes ok we all know that.

But it's a matter of realizing a very small detail which is, we are all part of it. If you know it, if you know the difference, if you UNDERSTAND the difference then it's perfect! No problem.

You have to accept that most people don't see it that way
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ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:55 am

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 28):
But it's a matter of realizing a very small detail which is, we are all part of it. If you know it, if you know the difference, if you UNDERSTAND the difference then it's perfect! No problem.

I think we are all saying the same thing, in different ways. I'm quite sure I know that everyone from the Arctic Ocean to the Panama Canal lives in North America, and everyone from the Panama Canal to Cape Horn lives in South America . . . We are all part of "The Americas" . . . we all live in "The Americas". Agreed.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 28):
You have to accept that most people don't see it that way

Disagree . . . you're from Mexico if your flag is right . . . so I ask you, when you refer to someone from the United States, what do you say? I'll bet a decent beer your answer is "American". Ask someone from Paris, London, Singapore, Sydney. Generally, you'll hear "American". Well, American, Yank and Infidel . . . depending on your grid square.  

[Edited 2005-05-31 05:20:21]
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Falcon84
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 28):
Yeah I know that what's my point here is that is somewhat annoying to something like this examples:

Welcome to America!

Yes, you are in America!

America? what? The States?

YES!! Again, what part of what I wrote do you NOT understand.

Shall I spell it out again:

AMERICA is the OFFICAL part of our name: The United States of....AMERICA!

Hence (drumroll please, ANC...) that's why WE get to be called AMERICANS! It's part of our name! It's NOT part of yours, or anyone's elses in this hempisphere. There, does that make it clear?

You're making an issue of of nothing-correction, you're making an issue out of something that's officially part of my country's name, and I just don't understand it.

If you want to be called Americans, put the name in your official national name. But we beat you to it, so whether your like it or not, you get to be called a Mexican and I get to be called and American.

How about this, maybe we should just invade and annex Mexico, and then you get your wish-you'll be called an American......
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Disagree . . . you're from Mexico if your flag is right . . . so I ask you, when you refer to someone from the United States, what do you say? I'll bet a decent beer your answer is "American". Ask someone from Paris, London, Singapore, Sydney. Generally, you'll hear "American". Well, American, Yank and Infidel . . . depending on your grid square.

I wasn't talking about Mexico's case. I was talking about the part where SOME PEOPLE don't see the difference between The Americas and America(US).

So yes I TOTALLY AGREE: Where are you from? I'm American, yes that's UNIVERSAL.

But now i'll bet you a decent beer that when you go and watch any Latin American, European, and even some Asian news tv program they'll refer to the States as... The States.

Alonso

[Edited 2005-05-31 06:21:19]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 31):
But now i'll bet you a decent bear that when you go and watch any Latin American, European, and even some Asian news tv program they'll refer to the States as... The States.

Agreed . . . so we owe each other a beer . . .  Wink Corona please  Smile
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:22 pm

hahaha a Turbo Corona... I bet another one that you'll like that.

I've got like tons of Corona's at my house, so I don't mind betting.
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cptkrell
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:27 pm

I guess the term (definition?) Meso America (Central/Middle America) is not referred to much anymore? My old 1950s geography in school always referred to North America, Meso America and South America. BTW, what's wrong with the "United States of Mexico" or "Mexican United States"?

Then, again, some might take offense at the ol' post-Alamo joke...

Q: "Where you from?"
A: "South America"

Q: "Oh, what part?"
A: "South Texas"

Regards...Jack
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 34):
Meso America

OMG

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 34):
post-Alamo joke...

I laughed so hard...
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Lan_Fanatic
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:19 pm

L.1011...this is the only point I want to critic:

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 20):
However, that divide is as clear as Europe-Asia, and I don't hear anyone questioning that. If anything, we should have European America and Latin America.

Remember Latins were also european.Then, all of the Americas should be "European America"...then we should divide into "Germanic America"(because of dutch and british colonies) and "Latin America"(because of french, portuguese and spanish colonies). But, then what happens with Canada? Quebec should be part of Latin America then.
 
pipo777
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
YES!! Again, what part of what I wrote do you NOT understand.

Shall I spell it out again:

AMERICA is the OFFICAL part of our name: The United States of....AMERICA!

Hence (drumroll please, ANC...) that's why WE get to be called AMERICANS! It's part of our name! It's NOT part of yours, or anyone's elses in this hempisphere. There, does that make it clear?

Ok dude...Relax.

No one is saying that you (or any citizen of the US) calling yourself "American" is wrong or that we want to take the name American away from you. I think we all understand that it is part of your country's name, but it's the name of my continent too.

What N506CR is trying to say is, that we can't say we are American without people thinking that we come from the US (although we are), but you can easily call someone from Europe European and no one would associate it specifically with any country in Europe, or someone from Africa or Asia for that matter.

I was also taught that all America was one continent...and there are 5 in total
 
KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:47 pm

Quoting Pipo777 (Reply 37):
What N506CR is trying to say is, that we can't say we are American without people thinking that we come from the US (although we are), but you can easily call someone from Europe European and no one would associate it specifically with any country in Europe, or someone from Africa or Asia for that matter.

Pipo777, I take my hat off
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AR1300
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:02 pm

Brazil is also called United States of Brazil ''Estados Unidos Brasileiros''.

Mike

P.S:All the Canucks at the college that I went(Chicago) used to get insulted and all pissed off by the ''Americans'' saying this.We are Americans too, eh!!
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KLM685
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:38 pm

I want to know what is the problem of actually trying to have a space within the word: AMERICA?

I mean we all live in the same continent. But we have to understand when to use : we are Americans or we come from the States.

It's basically trying not let the idea of being GENERALIZED.


Alonso
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EZEIZA
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 4:27 pm

I've noticed manu US citizens abroad, when asked, will reply "from the United States" and not "American". It is true that although the US is the only country to have "America" in the official name, everyone in the continent is allowed to say they are Americans as well. Let's all just say we're americans and no problem!

saludos
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NumberTwelve
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Quoting N506CR (Reply 9):
no ANC, is not really that. What I mean is that, technically, anyone in this continent is an American.

. . . is a NORTH American or CENTRAL American . . . lest they be confused with those from SOUTH American .

So a German is not a German but a SOUTH German, NORTH German or CENTRAL German?

We had discussions before if South America is a separate continent - for us Europeans it isn't , also for most of the South Americans it isn't.

For me an American is a person who is living in America and America is a continent, not a country.
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mdsh00
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:02 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
Central America is a semi-xenophobic means that cartographers and culturalists had of keeping the 3rd world element of the North American appellation separate from the people south of the US border. It has become accepted without much thought,

I had always seen "Central America" as a division in North America. Basically everything south of Mexico and north of Colombia.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 31):
But now i'll bet you a decent beer that when you go and watch any Latin American, European, and even some Asian news tv program they'll refer to the States as... The States.

In India, it depends. I have heard people use every permutation of our country's name: America, US, USA, and "The States".

These names are also used interchangeably by Americans and people around the world, and I think most people, even here understand that calling someone an "American" or saying that they live in "America" refers to the US. Like someone said, what's in a name?
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Falcon84
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 8:16 pm

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 31):
I was talking about the part where SOME PEOPLE don't see the difference between The Americas and America(US).

Most people with a shred of common sense do. I don't hear Chilean's calling themselves "American"; I don't hear Brazilian's calling themselves "American"; I dont' hear Argentinian's calling themselves "American"; I don't hear Nicaraguan's calling themselves "American"; I don't hear Canadian's calling themselves "American". The only ones I've ever heard use the term is (drumroll again, please) is Americans-you know, the ones from the United States of America?

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 31):
I'm American, yes that's UNIVERSAL.

You're Mexican. If a Mexican emmigrates to the United States of America, they're then called a Mexican-American. Get it?

Quoting Pipo777 (Reply 37):
No one is saying that you (or any citizen of the US) calling yourself "American" is wrong or that we want to take the name American away from you.

Actually, deep down, I think that's exactly is what's being said here, to be honest. There is some real deep resentment on here for the fact that I call myself an "American". I do that because that's what I am-it's THE NAME of my country, and I think, for some reason, a lot of people on here resent that for some Godforsaken reason, my friend.

Quoting Pipo777 (Reply 37):
I think we all understand that it is part of your country's name, but it's the name of my continent too.

Well, I don't call myself something based on my continent; I call myself what I am based on my COUNTRY. Continent means diddly to me.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 40):
I mean we all live in the same continent. But we have to understand when to use : we are Americans or we come from the States.

Again, making a mountain out of a molehill. You don't call yourself an "American" I bet. You call yourself a Mexican. This is only being brought up, I suspect, again, because of some deep-seated resentment that the USA has the name and you guys don't. I don't understand even why it was brought up, it's really a non-issue.

Most people outside of Europe, and perhaps Africa, identify themselvs by country, not continent. So again, what is the big deal that we're called "American" and you're not? What's the big deal that it's part of our name, and not yours? Does it diminish you in some way that I don't see (because I don't see it diminishing anyone).

End of this maddening thread for this American.
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dl021
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 42):
We had discussions before if South America is a separate continent - for us Europeans it isn't , also for most of the South Americans it isn't.

South America is a separate continent from North America. Look at the maps or refer to a geography book. It has more separation than Europe and Asia do, and has all the terrain features and ethnic/cultural diversity necessary to justify such appellation, as if it was necessary to do so.

Having spent most of my life traveling I think its safe to say that most South Americans will identify themselves by their nationality first if asked, and if you ask them from which continent they hail (which is a wierd question if you know which is their native country) they'll say South America.....just as an American or Canadian would tell you, with a slightly bemused look, North America, in reply to the same question.

What is this thread really all about anyway?
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Falcon84
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
What is this thread really all about anyway?

I explained what it was about in my last post Ian.  Smile
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dl021
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46):
I explained what it was about in my last post Ian. Smile

Smart-assed rhetorical questions do not require answers!  Wink
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ANCFlyer
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 42):
So a German is not a German but a SOUTH German, NORTH German or CENTRAL German?

Not even a valid analogy . . .try again . . . that'd be like me saying I'm a Central Alaska . . .

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 42):
For me an American is a person who is living in America and America is a continent, not a country

OK, no problem. I said, already, both these continenants are referred to as "The Americas".

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
South America is a separate continent from North America. Look at the maps or refer to a geography book. It has more separation than Europe and Asia do

As I said way, way back in reply #13 . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
Interestingly, I have never completely understood why there is a definite distinction between Asia and Europe. While North/Central America are connected to South America via a small isthmus (Panama) and thus there is a conceivable and visual separation between North/Central and South America the Euro-Asian continent is essentially one large land mass, is it not?



Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
(which is a wierd question if you know which is their native country

Which is a STUPID question if you know their native country . . . .   

[Edited 2005-05-31 15:40:41]
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FDXmech
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RE: American? The United States?

Tue May 31, 2005 10:35 pm

From now on I'll refer to Mexicans, El Salvadorians, etc as American's. You want to called American, then that's what I'll call you.

You will no longer be Mexican, Honduran, etc.

PS. Do Canadian's also harbor this resentment? I don't recall seeing it.
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