hardiwv
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Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:00 am

HEADLINES:

The Brazilian Commission for International Relations, empanelled by the Brazilian Congress, has just approved the end of the "VISA reciprocity" policy of the country and, therefore, the end of the VISA requirement for US citizens. [The bill has been presented by Congressman Mr. Carlos Eduardo Cadoca (he is from Rio de Janeiro)].

Two other amendments to the bill were approved: 1) the non-reciprocity policy will also be extended to other countries with which Brazil has "economic and political interest" (the list specifies Japan, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand); 2) the Ministry of Tourism should prepare a second list of countries with which Brazil has tourism interest.

If the bill is approved by the Senate it will provide a substantive boos to Brazil air traffic and tourism. AA would be the first beneficiary. Brazilian Authorities also have in the pipeline the liberalisation of the current US-Brazil bilateral (currently operating in its limit).

For AA plans to open route to NE Brazil read:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2157000

Excellent news!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:05 am

Very good news, and a blow to some of the stupid, hot-headed and over reacting senators and politicians in this country.

Good news.

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
incitatus
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:09 am

Hardiw:

This is excellent news.

I don't know what your source is, but here is the link to the press release in Portuguese on Cadoca's website: http://www.cadoca.com.br/noticias.php.
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geoffm
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:13 am

Has the US stopped the visa fee for Brazilians also, or are the Brazilians simply one step ahead of the game?

Geoff M.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:13 am

http://www.cadoca.com.br/noticias.php?id=579

Indeed, above is Congressman's Cadoca (Rio de Janeiro) webpage with the press release informing the end of Brazil's VISA reciprocity policy.

This policy will have a huge effect in air traffic, boosting traffic US-Brazil....It also shows a major shift in the Brazilian approach towards the US VISA policy.

All in all, congratulations to the Brazilian Congress! The bill was approved with "ample majority".

Now Brazil only needs a new bilateral with the US...and AA can start flying to REC, FOR, BSB, MAO, BEL, etc, etc...

Rgs,
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:17 am

Wait... so does this mean I don't have to get a VISA for my upcoming 4th of July trip??
no wire hangers!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 3):
Has the US stopped the visa fee for Brazilians also, or are the Brazilians simply one step ahead of the game?

The U.S. has not conceded the same privileges.

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 5):
Wait... so does this mean I don't have to get a VISA for my upcoming 4th of July trip??

I don't know when this takes effect, but in the current conditions, I might suggest you call the consulate for more info and don't wait till the last minute for the VISA in case you'll still need it.

Have a nice trip BTW,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
MAH4546
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:28 am

It is about time. This is awesome news. Visa restrictions for US tourists to Brazil have sevrely limited the amount of Americans that visit this beautiful place. Instead, they opt for Argentina, Uruguay, and Peru when visting South America. This will also be a boom for air traffic to the region, and comes just at the right time, with AA announcing plans to fly to NE Brazil.
a.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):

I don't know when this takes effect, but in the current conditions, I might suggest you call the consulate for more info and don't wait till the last minute for the VISA in case you'll still need it.

Thanks, I'm calling them right now!
no wire hangers!
 
Kempa
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:35 am

It looks like it was approved by the Foreign Relations Committee. I am guessing that it will only be in effect after it is approved by the congress, and published.
 
EMBTucano
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 3):
Has the US stopped the visa fee for Brazilians also, or are the Brazilians simply one step ahead of the game?

No, and I doubt they will. I know that this can help the tourism in Brazil but I cannot agree with the decision. I think that the reciprocity is the right way to go.

Just my two cents.

EMBTucano
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
mrniji
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:42 am

As American citizen I say: Bad news.. other countries need to impose pressure on our visa policies (though they remain to be better than those of Continental Europe)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jasepl
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 11):
As American citizen I say: Bad news.. other countries need to impose pressure on our visa policies

Why do you say that?

You might be American, but I don't think you're looking at the issue as one. Reciprocity is an important concept, certainly, but there need to be certain exceptions that are in the best interests of a country in question. I'd say the same thing of India as of Brazil: It really serves no purpose to demand visas from everyone, other than as an ego-fulfilling measure.

What on earth, for example, is the point of India requiring a visa from every single Swiss person? It's not as if there are millions of Swiss just dying to move to India. Removing that requirement, will help India more than it will help the Swiss.

Similarly, removing the visa requirements for Americans will help Brazil more than it will help Americans.

The fingerprinting deal, on the other hand, is quite another matter!  Wink
 
mrocktor
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:04 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 11):
though they remain to be better than those of Continental Europe

As a brazilian citizen who just traveled to France, Switzerland and Italy without a visa, I contest that the USA visa policy is "better" then that of continental Europe.

As an american citizen I am not subject to the policy, but I work with those who are and it is a very big pain in the aft fuselage.

mrocktor
 
B744F
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:18 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 1):
Very good news, and a blow to some of the stupid, hot-headed and over reacting senators and politicians in this country.

The US and their World Bank runs your economy into the ground and what do you say? "More please!!"
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:20 am

In a few years there will be wide-open borders from Chile to Canada, and it will be called the Pan-American Union. Believe it or not.
 
EMBTucano
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 15):
In a few years there will be wide-open borders from Chile to Canada, and it will be called the Pan-American Union. Believe it or not.

 arrow Utopia - It is more likely that Canada will be isolated because the country right south of it will never open its borders.

Cheers
EMBTucano
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:41 am

The borders are wide open right now, and have been for years. All you must do is be willing to swim about 50 ft. Thousands upon thousands stroll across each and every day. BTW....I know many of those people that walk on in and they exhibit more "American" ideals and values than most of the indigent populous do.

Only by plane, train or automobile do you have to "show papers". But this is going away soon as well.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 10):
No, and I doubt they will. I know that this can help the tourism in Brazil but I cannot agree with the decision. I think that the reciprocity is the right way to go.

I tend to agree. Especially a country like Brazil, that is not desperate to open further tourism since it already has a huge amount of tourists all year round. I would leave the reciprocity policy as well. Besides, most people in the US can afford a visa, so let them get one and make some extra cash while we're at it  Wink
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 5):
Wait... so does this mean I don't have to get a VISA for my upcoming 4th of July trip??



Quoting Kempa (Reply 9):
It looks like it was approved by the Foreign Relations Committee. I am guessing that it will only be in effect after it is approved by the congress, and published.

The most important part was the approval of the bill in the Commission. Now the bill has to be approved by the Congress. Considering that the bill was approved by the Foreign Relations Commission "with ample majority", it is expected that it will have a easy ride in the Congress (the Commission is composed by members of the Congress). I would say that the voting in the Congress will take place towards the end of the year - but I do hope they vote before Carnaval 2006  Smile

As mentioned above, this is a major step forward: the only countries in Latin America which require VISA for US citizens are Brazil, Venezuela and Suriname...

Brazil has hugely benefited from the European tourism boom in NE Brazil...every day there are more and more charter flights arriving in NE Brazil. The same could happen with the US if Brazil liberalises its US-Brazil bilateral and drops the VISA requirements.

AA can start preparing its plans for additional flights to secondary markets in Brazil!

As pointed out above, European countries (including the UK and Switzerland) do not require VISA for Brazilians. I hope this decision by the Brazilian Congress also sensitises the US authorities to revise or speed-up VISA application by Brazilian nationals. I also do hope that this decision will not lead the Europeans to impose VISA on Brazilian nationals.

Rgs,
 
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rg828
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:32 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 14):
US and their World Bank runs your economy into the ground and what do you say? "More please!!"

In essence I agree. What does Brazil get in return?

After all that hysteria regarding reciprocity, we turn our back on it for the greater benefit of the American traveller/tourist.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
MAH4546
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting RG828 (Reply 20):
In essence I agree. What does Brazil get in return?

You are kidding, right?

What does Brazil get in return? How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast now that they won't have to go through the hassles of getting a visa to visit.
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast now that they won't have to go through the hassles of getting a visa to visit.

The benefits (in order):

1) million, million of dollars, through US tourists, in the coastal cities of NE Brazil (the poorest region of Brazil) = and the spill over effect: hotels, resorts, services...etc,etc;
2) a better air network connection between the NE and North Brazil with the US, therefore avoiding waste of time and money with connetions in GRU/GIG;
3) AA/MIA which will make a big party out of the Brazilian market - the same way TP/LIS is doing.

Rgs,
 
Glareskin
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
What does Brazil get in return? How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast now that they won't have to go through the hassles of getting a visa to visit.

Yes, I agree. For US citizens it is great news.

But on the other hand I admired the Brazilian government for standing up against the never stopping unilateral decisions from the US government. And to be honest I felt kind of satified when I saw the Americans waiting in the line when I could quickly go through customs at GRU as a European citizen. This is what we've suffered all those years when we arrive in the USA. But again, I'm glad for the people that it's over.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
magyar
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:46 am

B744F

>>
The US and their World Bank runs your economy into the ground and what do you say? "More please!!"
<<

No, no, the correct sentence would be:
You say "More please" (and do not forget
to smile!!), or else the US and their World
Bank runs your economy into the ground!
 
B744F
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
What does Brazil get in return? How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast now that they won't have to go through the hassles of getting a visa to visit.

With all the massive poverty and violence that unfortunately comes out of that, you won't get this large flock of tourists unless they plan on taking out kidnapping insurance. If the government spent their money on social programs to build up a stronger country instead of this false hope in tourist money then maybe a program like this would work after everything was in better order.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 25):
With all the massive poverty and violence that unfortunately comes out of that, you won't get this large flock of tourists unless they plan on taking out kidnapping insurance

Just look at the Europeans flocking to NE Brazil.

Btw: You are the typical "American" for which I must say I would be glad Brazil keeps the VISA reciprocity policy!

Rgs,
 
EMBTucano
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
The borders are wide open right now, and have been for years. All you must do is be willing to swim about 50 ft. Thousands upon thousands stroll across each and every day. BTW

Since you live in Austin, I assume you have driven down south, say, to the Valley, which is less than 4 hours away from Austin. It surprises me that you have not seen a big fence marging the Rio Grande. It is huge! You must have seeing it.
And if you took a couple of minutes by the, also, huge US customs that they have in the U.S. side, you probably saw that everyone that 'strolls' in to the USA do have to show papers. Americans have to show Id. And non-americans better have visas, passports, and a good 'reason' to be crossing the board. Oh, and there is also something called Border Patrol that are all around the highways and counties near the border with lots of dogs, choppers, Infrared goggles and so on.
I think you have missed these details on your trip to the Valley.  sarcastic 

EMBTucano
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rg828
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Quoting RG828 (Reply 20):
In essence I agree. What does Brazil get in return?

You are kidding, right?

What does Brazil get in return? How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast now that they won't have to go through the hassles of getting a visa to visit.

Well, I hope you are right about that. Somehow I dont see thousands of Americans flocking to Brazil just yet.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
magyar
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:03 am

>>
Has the US stopped the visa fee for Brazilians also, or are the Brazilians simply one step ahead of the game?
<<

The US might opt for the same policy
that is followed against Hungary.
Hungary no longer requires visa for
US citizens, and in return the US
keep rising the visa fee for Hungarians
(~ $100 at the moment). Furthermore,
the Hunkies are now fingerprinted at the
Embassy before a US visa is issued
and of course at US border.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 27):
Since you live in Austin, I assume you have driven down south, say, to the Valley, which is less than 4 hours away from Austin. It surprises me that you have not seen a big fence marging the Rio Grande. It is huge! You must have seeing it.

The fence must have holes in it.....or it is incomplete.
 
miaskies
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:11 am

I think a a toast with CAIPIRINHAS is in order here!!!!

Isto é notícia fantástica!

I agree with MAH's and other points on here, this change will only benefit Brasil and help out the NE points in the country. Great news...

Also AA & MIA will be preety much celebrating all the way to Carnival with these news!
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
cairo
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting RG828 (Reply 28):
Somehow I dont see thousands of Americans flocking to Brazil just yet.

The new non-visa policy is worth at least another flight per week, if not per day, from America, which translates into thousands of extra tourists. I myself have often wanted to go to Brazil at the last minute, but don't because of the visa issue. To some visas are a part of travelling, to most Americans a visa is a completely unknown concept and too much hassle to consider for casual, especially somewhat-last-minute trips. AA doesn't include Brazil in their advertising, vacation packages and webfares as often as it could, in part because of the visa issue.

This is great news! I can't wait to go.

Cairo
 
MAH4546
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting RG828 (Reply 28):
Well, I hope you are right about that. Somehow I dont see thousands of Americans flocking to Brazil just yet.

It is not going to happen overnight, but, the dropping of Visa restrictions will greatly increase tourism between the regions.

I don't agree with Visas in general, and don't agree with America's requirements of Visa for Brazilians, Argentinans, and most citizens. I think it should be limited to only countries that are in states of civil unrest or political corruption or something extreme of the sorts. However, so be it. The fact remains, this will benefit Brazil way more than it will benefit America. It's good for Brazil.
a.
 
ahlfors
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:45 am

This will be good for tourism. However, there would have been a way to keep some reciprocity and still avoid the problem of having to get a visa before hand: visa on arrival. Several countries use this concept for tourists from Europe/North America. You basically pay your visa fee at the arrival airport, but don't have to get it ahead of time which is such a pain.
 
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PA110
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
How about the potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans that will be flocking to Brazil's affordable beach resorts in the Northeast

Whoa! Hyperbole check! Hundreds of thousands of Amercans? Despite the affordability once you're there, the demographic just doesn't pan out. The mass market for beach destination sales is completely dominated by families with children and low-cost / low-yield vacationers. These folks are not going to forgo far lower airfares and far shorter flying times to Florida and the Carribean in favor of Northeast Brazil - no matter how nice it is. Yes, more Americans will visit the Northeast for sure, but not nearly in the numbers you suggest.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
SBRFtoEHAM
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:05 am

Just a small correction here: Congressman Cadoca is from the state of Pernambuco (REC is the capital city), one of the places where lots of Caribbean-style resorts are being built.
These are already receiving a lot of European tourists, and I think they would be happy getting a similar amount of US tourists.

Regards
REC,AMS and a few others...
 
B744F
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
Btw: You are the typical "American" for which I must say I would be glad Brazil keeps the VISA reciprocity policy!

The typical American? What is that supposed to mean? A typical American does not care about outrageous loans nor do they even know about them. Please don't use such ignorant rantings and throw out such baseless insults when you really don't know what you're talking about
 
incitatus
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
I don't agree with Visas in general, and don't agree with America's requirements of Visa for Brazilians, Argentinans, and most citizens.

The State Department has clear guidelines for allowing visa free travel. Brazil never met those guidelines, while Argentina enjoyed visa free travel in the past. A tour of the following cities will clarify why the US requires visas from Brazilians: Pompano Beach, FL, Newark, NJ, New York City, Somerville & Framingham, MA, Bedford & Fall River, MA. So far in 2005 the border patrol already collected more than 15000 Brazilians in the US-Mexico border. Also... the drama of undocumented Brazilian aliens is beamed daily to Brazilian households through a Globo soap.
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abrelosojos
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 10):
No, and I doubt they will. I know that this can help the tourism in Brazil but I cannot agree with the decision. I think that the reciprocity is the right way to go.

= Completely agreed. Recriprocity is the way to go. I think Brasil is big enough that it doesnt need to bow down.

Quoting JasePL (Reply 12):
You might be American, but I don't think you're looking at the issue as one. Reciprocity is an important concept, certainly, but there need to be certain exceptions that are in the best interests of a country in question. I'd say the same thing of India as of Brazil: It really serves no purpose to demand visas from everyone, other than as an ego-fulfilling measure.

What on earth, for example, is the point of India requiring a visa from every single Swiss person? It's not as if there are millions of Swiss just dying to move to India. Removing that requirement, will help India more than it will help the Swiss.

= I agree with some of the things you say, but think you are one of the few Indians who would agree to this. Its a matter of principal and I dont think India needs to do anything to appease the West. I actually admire India's visa policies. Let it stand. In the LR, it will help them no  Smile?

Finally, I dont think a visa policy stops American tourists from travelling to any country. Most Americans who travel are extremely worldly and would gladly shell the extra money for the visa. The visa policy would ease travel for ignorant people anyways. IMHO, its better for NE Brasil to not become another Cancun.

[Edited 2005-06-09 00:29:18]
Live, and let live.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:32 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
The mass market for beach destination sales is completely dominated by families with children and low-cost / low-yield vacationers.

Why don't you tell that to tourist promoters at popular, high-yielding beach getaways like Miami, Bonaire, Nevis, Nice, and Tahiti, where upscale resorts and adult-oriented attractions are catered to wealthy vistors that don't bring (or have) children.
a.
 
incitatus
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 39):
Finally, I dont think a visa policy stops American tourists from travelling to any country. Most Americans who travel are extremely worldly and would gladly shell the extra money for the visa. The visa policy would ease travel for ignorant people anyways. IMHO, its better for NE Brasil to not become another Cancun.

Yes, it stops people. Have you ever dealt with the Brazilian consulates in the US? I have. Have you ever tried to get an event going in Brazil where the delegates will be mostly Americans? I have. It plainly sucks and the consulate staff is very rude and unaccommodating.

Also travel is a competitive market. Countries that require visas will get fewer tourists. Fewer tourists means fewer flights. Fewer flights means less business interest. Economics explains.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 39):
I dont think India needs to do anything to appease the West.

It's this kind of mentality that is landing Venezuela into a death spiral. A more pragmatic perspective made Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Korea countries that created wealth (including jobs, healthcare, education, housing) to pretty much all their citizens.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 39):
Recriprocity is the way to go.

Wrong. Reciprocity is giving up sovereignity. By using reciprocity, Brazil gave up its right to set the visa policy that is best for the country. Instead Brazil's visa policy was being set by the American State Department. With the new law Brazilians can adopt the policy they think it's best for the country.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 38):
Most Americans who travel are extremely worldly and would gladly shell the extra money for the visa.

exaclty, so why not keep requiring visa for US citizens and get some money out of it? A US citizen that really wants to go to Brazil will not be stopped because of a few bucks (yet the other way round, a few bucks makes a big difference).
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
EMBTucano
Posts: 234
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RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 30):
The fence must have holes in it.....or it is incomplete.

You must be joking !  banghead 

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 41):
Yes, it stops people. Have you ever dealt with the Brazilian consulates in the US? I have. Have you ever tried to get an event going in Brazil where the delegates will be mostly Americans? I have. It plainly sucks and the consulate staff is very rude and unaccommodating.

Have you ever (I am sure you have!) tried to get an event going in the US with all Brazilian citizens? Have you seen the lines, that Brazilians have to stay to get a visa in the American consulates in Brazil?

Have you talked with the very polite consulate staff to whom you pretty much have to beg to get a visa?

American citizens do not even have to go to the consulates to obtain their visa. They simply have to mail in the paperwork, money order and its a done deal.

I my opinion, what prevents more Americans to come to Brazil is the fear of street violence and so on.

I have tons of Americans friends which I really want them to come visit Brazil, and most of them fear the violence and none of them said that they won't come because they have to obtain visa to come in.

Cheers
EMBTucano
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:30 am

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 43):
I have tons of Americans friends which I really want them to come visit Brazil, and most of them fear the violence and none of them said that they won't come because they have to obtain visa to come in.

Like most Americans, they probably don't know. And when it comes time to planning a trip to Brazil, and an American discovers they need a Visa, they say "forget it, let's go to XXX". Not only do Americans not like paying for Visas, but there is a common perception that if you need a Visa, there must be "something wrong" with the country, and it is not worth visiting. It is unfortunate, but true.
a.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 44):
Like most Americans, they probably don't know. And when it comes time to planning a trip to Brazil, and an American discovers they need a Visa, they say "forget it, let's go to XXX". Not only do Americans not like paying for Visas, but there is a common perception that if you need a Visa, there must be "something wrong" with the country, and it is not worth visiting. It is unfortunate, but true.

Same opinion as many brazilians, forget about US, let's go to Europe. What do you think about travel from your cities (there are consulates only in Rio, São Paulo and Recife) to spend more than four/five hours to get an interview with some one which has the right to refuse your plans and dreams. Do you know any american refused by Brazilian Authorities ? I don't.

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 43):
Have you ever (I am sure you have!) tried to get an event going in the US with all Brazilian citizens? Have you seen the lines, that Brazilians have to stay to get a visa in the American consulates in Brazil?

Have you talked with the very polite consulate staff to whom you pretty much have to beg to get a visa?

Agree 100% with you. At least Americans will keep with the fingerprint and photo id when coming to Brazil.

Regards,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 45):
Same opinion as many brazilians, forget about US, let's go to Europe.

Very true, I never said otherwise. Though the fact remains that American tourists can have a bigger impact on Brazil than Brazilian tourists can have on America.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 45):
What do you think about travel from your cities (there are consulates only in Rio, São Paulo and Recife) to spend more than four/five hours to get an interview with some one which has the right to refuse your plans and dreams. Do you know any american refused by Brazilian Authorities ? I don't.

I'm not arguing with you that is is fair. I agree that US requirements for Brazilians to get Visa is unfair and should be dropped (BTW, there also the US Embassy in Brasillia). At the same time, you can't ignore the fact that Brazil dropping Visa requirements for Americans provides a much more significant economic advantage than visa-versa. It hurts Brazil more than its hurts America.
a.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 41):
It's this kind of mentality that is landing Venezuela into a death spiral. A more pragmatic perspective made Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Korea countries that created wealth (including jobs, healthcare, education, housing) to pretty much all their citizens.

= 100% agreed with your observation on Venezuela. However, I do think you need to read economic history to know that the Asian countries ALL grew with protectionist regimes that promoted internal export oriented growth and kept foreign competition out.

Moreover, I do think your thinking is reflective of the elite class in Latin America that seem to have a different concept of reality than most people in the country.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 38):
The State Department has clear guidelines for allowing visa free travel. Brazil never met those guidelines, while Argentina enjoyed visa free travel in the past. A tour of the following cities will clarify why the US requires visas from Brazilians: Pompano Beach, FL, Newark, NJ, New York City, Somerville & Framingham, MA, Bedford & Fall River, MA. So far in 2005 the border patrol already collected more than 15000 Brazilians in the US-Mexico border. Also... the drama of undocumented Brazilian aliens is beamed daily to Brazilian households through a Globo soap.

= Again, see comments above. You are in a position to say this because you are part of those who will meet the requirements. People who do not even need to go to the U.S. - just like myself.

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 43):
I my opinion, what prevents more Americans to come to Brazil is the fear of street violence and so on.

= Emb, you seem like a sensible person and I think you are right 100%. Most Americans I know are afraid of going to Brasil because of the violence more than anything else.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
I don't agree with Visas in general, and don't agree with America's requirements of Visa for Brazilians, Argentinans, and most citizens. I think it should be limited to only countries that are in states of civil unrest or political corruption or something extreme of the sorts. However, so be it. The fact remains, this will benefit Brazil way more than it will benefit America. It's good for Brazil.

= Mah, you seem like a sensible rational person and I do agree with you. I also do not agree with visas in general - and I actually think that policies in Europe are far worse than they are in the U.S. Given the policies of US-Europe, what should big countries with leverage power do to ensure some kind of fairness? I think EMBs point on Brasilians seeking visas is what I am trying to address.

PS - Before the board gets ballistic, my Schenegen passport allows me visa-free travel. I am from Europe originally and left it because ... well, thats another story  Smile.
Live, and let live.
 
misbeehavin
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 38):
Pompano Beach, FL, Newark, NJ, New York City, Somerville & Framingham, MA, Bedford & Fall River, MA.

I'm not sure where it falls in the rankings, but don't forget Atlanta, GA. I have so many Brazilian friends here! Most legal, some not. But who cares? We have so much fun together.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7876
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil Approves End Of Visa For US Citizens

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
1) million, million of dollars, through US tourists, in the coastal cities of NE Brazil (the poorest region of Brazil) = and the spill over effect: hotels, resorts, services...etc,etc;

And jobs!!! Unemployment is the number one cause of violence!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
2) a better air network connection between the NE and North Brazil with the US, therefore avoiding waste of time and money with connetions in GRU/GIG;

Which translates into a more dynamic economy. The NE of Brazil has always had a very poor economy.

Quoting B744F (Reply 25):
With all the massive poverty and violence that unfortunately comes out of that, you won't get this large flock of tourists unless they plan on taking out kidnapping insurance. If the government spent their money on social programs to build up a stronger country instead of this false hope in tourist money then maybe a program like this would work after everything was in better order.

Social programs don't create jobs. Jobs reduce violence.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
AA doesn't include Brazil in their advertising, vacation packages and webfares as often as it could, in part because of the visa issue.

Brazil is simply not advertised in the U.S., or very, very little.

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
A typical American does not care about outrageous loans nor do they even know about them.

Questions: Who asked for those loans? Who screw up in investing that money?

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 39):
I think Brasil is big enough that it doesnt need to bow down.

Big? Big in what? oh ya!! lot's of starving people, violence, unemployment rate... that's what you meant? What does geography mean today?

Quoting EMBTucano (Reply 43):
Have you ever (I am sure you have!) tried to get an event going in the US with all Brazilian citizens? Have you seen the lines, that Brazilians have to stay to get a visa in the American consulates in Brazil?

I have stood for 2 hours at CLT, it sucked BIG time. But you know what? What happened to that "bracos abertos" we all say here? Eventually things will change, the U.S. will not require VISA's, just need a little bit of pacience (a virtue!).

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 39):
IMHO, its better for NE Brasil to not become another Cancun.

I agree, but when you have people starving, what are you gonna tell them? "oh, sorry, no job today for you to feed your family because we feel that we only deserve a certain, elite-type of crowd that fits our egos"

It most likely won't become "another cancun," just because it won't be as close to the U.S. And it might be too far south for your average cruise liner.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 47):
However, I do think you need to read economic history to know that the Asian countries ALL grew with protectionist regimes that promoted internal export oriented growth and kept foreign competition out.

China does that? Japan had plenty of technology and capable people after WW2, plus the Marshall plan to jump start their economy (same with Germany). S. Korea had a lot of help from the U.S. after the war.

The Marshall plan would have failed miserably if Germany/Japan did not have a larger (majority), and well educated population.


VISA policy only makes sense if there is some sort of security risk involved. We can just abandon all these people that would greatly benefit (the whole region!) by this no-VISA policy because we are at a "I don't like you so much" stage with someone else (especially someone we generally get along very well!!).


My two cents,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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